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Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
214
   |
Posted - 2013.03.16 21:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just what the title says, what distinguishes a good FC from a bad one?
Thanks in advance.
We are made sharp by the whetstone of purity and truth that is the Empire, all due praises to her Majesty Lord of the host. The alternative to reclamation is to fall as wheat before the scythe.
Amarr Victor!
|
Theangryhobo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
162
|
Posted - 2013.03.16 22:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Being memorable. Welping a fleet is fine, as long as people remember the welp.
. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
45
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 00:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
In the simplest and crudest of terms:
Keeping your **** together. |
Red Teufel
Take it Deep
213
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 00:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
able to take on fleets of similar or greater size and not welp it. |
Roderick Grey
Broski North
Black Legion.
269
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 04:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Not asking here for tips.
GÇ£We could learn a lot from crayons; some are sharp, some are pretty, some are dull, while others bright, some have weird names, but they all have learned to live together in the same box.GÇ¥- Special needs division of Fcon. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
214
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 10:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Roderick Grey wrote:Not asking here for tips.
Honestly no, its not something I have the time for. Just curious what people thought were important qualities for an FC to have.
It seems to me that there's a lot of "stuff" going on for an FC. They have good presence on coms and an understanding of the game that goes way beyond anything most people have the time or intellect to achieve.
But what other attributes help make fleets successful? I've had some that are rich and before a roam they will provide all sorts of ships and mods to get people sorted. Some are funny and people just like them. Others are really good at getting information out, so people show up where and when they need to.
Is getting the maximum amount of people to show up important? Or is more gooder to have a few people in the right ships. Does an FC who makes everyone feel useful have an advantage over those that make the right calls but don't include everyone or take advantage of all ship types present.
I can see advantages and disadvantages to both sides of that style, and was just curious what other people thought.
We are made sharp by the whetstone of purity and truth that is the Empire, all due praises to her Majesty Lord of the host. The alternative to reclamation is to fall as wheat before the scythe.
Amarr Victor!
|
Gary Bell
Hard Knocks Inc.
34
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 12:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Roderick Grey wrote:Not asking here for tips. Honestly no, its not something I have the time for. Just curious what people thought were important qualities for an FC to have. It seems to me that there's a lot of "stuff" going on for an FC. They have good presence on coms and an understanding of the game that goes way beyond anything most people have the time or intellect to achieve. But what other attributes help make fleets successful? I've had some that are rich and before a roam they will provide all sorts of ships and mods to get people sorted. Some are funny and people just like them. Others are really good at getting information out, so people show up where and when they need to. Is getting the maximum amount of people to show up important? Or is more gooder to have a few people in the right ships. Does an FC who makes everyone feel useful have an advantage over those that make the right calls but don't include everyone or take advantage of all ship types present. I can see advantages and disadvantages to both sides of that style, and was just curious what other people thought.
Quoted for the most important part..  |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks
Executive Outcomes
893
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 12:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Resilience.
The best FCs are the ones that can welp and expensive fleet then take another one out without losing confidence (though hopefully learning something) and don't get burnt out.
Even an average skill FC that is mediocre in every other way but has amazing stamina and resilience is useful.
However if you want a "career" as an FC it's better to be memorable then be good, though obviously try to be both.
"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
monkfish2345
D'reg
The Methodical Alliance
30
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 13:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
1) good target calling
2) clear target calling
3) not panicing.
a good fc will get good fleet numbers, because they are good to fly for. also helps that the pilots trust them.
Sometimes even the best FC's will **** up or make a bad call, but more often than not they get it right, and even when they get something wrong, they will either get out with minimal losses or recover the situation. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
410
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 22:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
A good FC must be able to welp a fleet with the utmost grace. |
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions
Free 2 Play
133
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 10:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
a good FC
- is able to give clear and understandable commands
- has an overview of the situation
- has a good understanding of the composition of his fleet, and its capabilities
- can estimate the capabilities of a hostile fleet
- does not "welp" his fleet into a battle that he can forsee not to win
- knows his surroundings
- knows how to read a map
- knows how to deal with lemmings
- enforces voice discipline
- knows when to fight and when to hide
- has a good understanding of the game mechanics
- does not give the other side free kills just for "the fun of it"
- plans ahead, but is flexible enough to change the plan if something happens not included in his plan
- stays always calm and focused
- recovers from a bad call fast
- gets out there and does stuff
3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
682
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 10:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
There are no good FCs.
Just bad fleets to kill. |
Wey'oun
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
82
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 12:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Peter Powers wrote:a good FC
- is able to give clear and understandable commands
- has an overview of the situation
- has a good understanding of the composition of his fleet, and its capabilities
- can estimate the capabilities of a hostile fleet
- does not "welp" his fleet into a battle that he can forsee not to win
- knows his surroundings
- knows how to read a map
- knows how to deal with lemmings
- enforces voice discipline
- knows when to fight and when to hide
- has a good understanding of the game mechanics
- does not give the other side free kills just for "the fun of it"
- plans ahead, but is flexible enough to change the plan if something happens not included in his plan
- stays always calm and focused
- recovers from a bad call fast
- gets out there and does stuff
I Disagree with alot of those. For example voice discipline. Fleets are meant for fun, if we wanted one person droning orders for us all to follow we would be in the army.
whelping into fleets tht you cant win - wrong again. firstly every fleet is beatable if you play it smartly. 2ndly, whelping fleets whilst taking many ppl with you and enjoying it whilst dying is also fun (game remember?!) for example DnD/FATE suicide dropping dreads in k3 onto cfc dasboot camp.
TLDR: ur advocating a good fc is one that only FC's ganks in controlled environments with no risk to own fleet. You are everything that is wrong with EVE and a fundementally flawed human being. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
219
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 14:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wey'oun wrote:
TLDR: ur advocating a good fc is one that only FC's ganks in controlled environments with no risk to own fleet. You are everything that is wrong with EVE and a fundementally flawed human being.
Pete's perfect fleet did sound a bit dry. I don't know if I would go so far as to call him a FFHB. 
We are made sharp by the whetstone of purity and truth that is the Empire, all due praises to her Majesty Lord of the host. The alternative to reclamation is to fall as wheat before the scythe.
Amarr Victor!
|
vextorious
Concordiat
Spaceship Samurai
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 15:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wey'oun wrote:Peter Powers wrote:a good FC
- is able to give clear and understandable commands
- has an overview of the situation
- has a good understanding of the composition of his fleet, and its capabilities
- can estimate the capabilities of a hostile fleet
- does not "welp" his fleet into a battle that he can forsee not to win
- knows his surroundings
- knows how to read a map
- knows how to deal with lemmings
- enforces voice discipline
- knows when to fight and when to hide
- has a good understanding of the game mechanics
- does not give the other side free kills just for "the fun of it"
- plans ahead, but is flexible enough to change the plan if something happens not included in his plan
- stays always calm and focused
- recovers from a bad call fast
- gets out there and does stuff
I Disagree with alot of those. For example voice discipline. Fleets are meant for fun, if we wanted one person droning orders for us all to follow we would be in the army. whelping into fleets tht you cant win - wrong again. firstly every fleet is beatable if you play it smartly. 2ndly, whelping fleets whilst taking many ppl with you and enjoying it whilst dying is also fun (game remember?!) for example DnD/FATE suicide dropping dreads in k3 onto cfc dasboot camp. TLDR: ur advocating a good fc is one that only FC's ganks in controlled environments with no risk to own fleet. You are everything that is wrong with EVE and a fundementally flawed human being.
Personal attacks only make your points look weak.
|
highonpop
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
472
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 16:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Letting your *bark* dog FC *bark bark* the fleet *bark* for you. courtesy of dbrb
or
you could strive to be like Makalu (check my sig)
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
The best advice I can give any Eve player, new or old, is to never ever ever read the general discussion subforum. It is a cancer on this game and should just be deleted. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 03:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
vextorious wrote:
Personal attacks only make your points look weak.
Most attacks in Eve are somewhat personal, I've never had a point fail because of that fact. One of the things that keeps the game interesting. =-)
We are made sharp by the whetstone of purity and truth that is the Empire, all due praises to her Majesty Lord of the host. The alternative to reclamation is to fall as wheat before the scythe.
Amarr Victor!
|
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.22 03:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
highonpop wrote:Letting your *bark* dog FC *bark bark* the fleet *bark* for you. courtesy of dbrb or you could strive to be like Makalu (check my sig)
"Gallente elite cruiser wreck...? How did we just loose an elite cruiser to the pos."
We are made sharp by the whetstone of purity and truth that is the Empire, all due praises to her Majesty Lord of the host. The alternative to reclamation is to fall as wheat before the scythe.
Amarr Victor!
|
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
Black Legion.
66
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 04:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Just what the title says, what distinguishes a good FC from a bad one?
Thanks in advance.
Flown with some bad ones over the years. Some examples of FC failness come to mind:
1. The fc who are also market hos are some you better watch out for. I have been in an alliance where one of the primary fcs put ships on market that were not ordinary fleet doctrine ships and then welped them over and over to make money. Didnt take long for guys in my corp to not fly with him any more but others kept welping ships nightly and then paying him for new ones til the alliance leader caught on and booted him
2. Fc who burned out his mwd on a vaga and then asked someone else to swap ships with him...... and everyone refused...
3. Fc who chose to armor plate drakes and go roaming...
4. Countless Fcs who choose to blame the members of the fleet rather themselves for their own bad decisions. This is a regular occurence in eve.
ill leave out the names to protect the stupid. It is far easiler to recognize the bad ones than it is to recognie the good ones |
GavinGoodrich
void.
B O R G
18
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 07:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
You know what's the hardest thing to find? Someone who can multitask multiple forms of comms while spinning plates and herding cats at the same time.
I mean your coallition-level, Bloc/Skymarshall/Grand Poobah FC's are the ones who can be on multiple channels, juggling multiple things in the background, sorting out fleet comps here, capitals there, supers way over there, or at least getting all the info from people in charge of it, and do it in a way that doesn't **** people off and generally keep your cats in the same room while trying to feed the dog in the other room.
I may not have the most love for the attitudes of the top-level FC's, but you gotta hand it to 'em, what they do is mega ******* complicated. It really takes an amazing multitasker to FC at the very very top.
If you ever get the chance, maybe as a scout or something, to really really listen in on channel command on TS3, FC channels on jabber, etc...you will see some amazing ******* diplomacy at work.
And if you're the best of the best, you can do it with a ******* smile on your screen, even if you're ready to throw the whole herd of cats out the window.
On top of that, you need to be able to devote large chunks of time to do all this. If you don't have the time, don't try. Everything will come crashing down, including your fleets, if you don't have the time. |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
481
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 04:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Courage.
Most guys who play this game lack courage. When you FC, you are giving others the opportunity to judge you. Most guys fear being judged by their peers so they won't FC...even small gang stuff.
Everything else such as tactics and theorycrafting can be learned. But the courage to lead and be willing to be judged by your peers is something that can only from within.
But if you want nitty gritty details. A good FC will;
- know when to quit while he's ahead
- multi task effectively
- know how to delegate and empower his fleet
- what he's capable of and what he's not capable of
- communicate clearly
- understand his weaknesses
- always be a student willing to learn something new
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve . |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar
Nulli Legio
350
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 09:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Flexibility.
The ability to adapt your tactics on the fly to meet a changing situation. Far too many FC's I have seen who wait and wait and wait for the enemy to do exactly what they want and then get flustered when they do not. These people lack the aggressiveness to press an enemy when they are on the back foot and as such are always fighting on the back foot.
When I was in my last alliance we had an FC like this. Decent ship and comp knowledge (most of the time) but indecisive and timid.
Communication
You could well have the finest tactical mind ever to grace this game but if you can't communicate your wishes in a concise manner to your fleet you are useless. Fc's who can't pronounce words or names or who ramble on get the fleet killed.
Decisiveness
Often a poor choice carried out well yields a better result than no choice at all. FC's who freeze or fail to make the choice to commit or withdraw and lose ships in dribs and drabs to a fleeing enemy or lose too many dancing around before committing to lose the fight before it begins.
Self Reflection
"What can I do better" "What went wrong" "Why did that ship die"
In defeat you have to be able to reflect on your mistakes and figure out how to rectify them in future. Even in victory a good FC will reflect on how things could have been made better.
Resilience
Losses and defeats happen. Do not allow yourself to be demoralised. I have seen FC's with great talent resign their tags and even leave the game after even moderate losses.
Aggression
For all the dancing and positioning sometimes it can be the best tactic to go hard at an enemy with little finesse. Most effective against inexperienced FC's who tend to crumble under pressure. You tend to perhaps lose one or two more at the beginning of a fight but once the enemy crumbles it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Know thy enemy
Some FC's in the game have a massive ego. Some I have FC'd against are even spacefamous for this reason. For this I shall provide an example. The first is Supertwinkey 69 of NCdot fame. When fighting him in kalavela he brought a rokh fleet to fight our ragtag battlecruiser gang. Earlier in the campaign another FC hid 60 battlecruisers from 13 t2 frigs. So I made a show of running away. They gave chase. It did not take long for their fleet to get spread out. I then turned my fleet around and warped back to their tail end. I pretty much got to free fire on several of their ships before the bulk of their fleet arrived. And in their rush to help their mates they warped in line to the gate getting pulled into one of our dictor bubbles. These rokhs were now forced into a brawling fight. It did not end well.
It was his own overconfidence I exploited. The correct thing would be for him to stand his ground and deny the space and safe the system.
The ability to say NO
Often members of an alliances command will pressure an FC to engage when it is inappropriate to do so. Too often they will accept this and go in and die. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.
Well this is my little addendum. Ho
I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
Zilero
Love Squad
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
58
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 13:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Judging by a lot of the fleet commanders out there, the ability to be a complete ass hat, rage for no real reason at all and generally just be a sperg lord is one of the most defining traits of a good FC. |
Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
221
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 18:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zilero wrote:Judging by a lot of the fleet commanders out there, the ability to be a complete ass hat, rage for no real reason at all and generally just be a sperg lord is one of the most defining traits of a good FC.
I actually haven't seen a lot of that type of behavior. Maybe you need a new corp or alliance.
We are made sharp by the whetstone of purity and truth that is the Empire, all due praises to her Majesty Lord of the host. The alternative to reclamation is to fall as wheat before the scythe.
Amarr Victor!
|
Zilero
Love Squad
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
58
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 09:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Zilero wrote:Judging by a lot of the fleet commanders out there, the ability to be a complete ass hat, rage for no real reason at all and generally just be a sperg lord is one of the most defining traits of a good FC. I actually haven't seen a lot of that type of behavior. Maybe you need a new corp or alliance.
Oh my current alliance is nothing like that. Thank god. Previous experiences are.... mixed  . |
Lallante
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
179
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 16:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Playing between 2003 and 2005. |
Mitch Taylor
Dark-Rising
32
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 00:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
knowledge is power
and not caring when another covert ops dies because he wasn't watching that screen
oh and don't shoot myrmidons.
DARKRISING |
Amyclas Amatin
The Phantom Regiment
THE ROYAL NAVY
95
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 17:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Delegation! and knowing how to fight in more than one effing grid or system at the same time!
The post that got me banned from Eve-Uni:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=210049&find=unread |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force
Tribal Band
640
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 00:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
From my experiences, the best FCs are those who can give a clear and comprehensible order in just the right number of words. Anything too lengthy or too short leads to confusion. When people are confused they screw up and if enough people are screwing up your fleet dies.
Just be clear and concise, only say what you need to say but make sure you actually say it.
Of course, this is from the perspective of a typical grunt who has never FCed anything in his life.
I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |
Edible Douche
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 02:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUJ8WA681lU
this is one of the best FC`s i ever seen
he rude here and there but the job is done, kill the enemy |
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