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Author |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4951
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:44:00 -
[181] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:All the alliances are discussing going this route 0/10 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3581
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:54:00 -
[182] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Corey Fumimasa wrote:All the alliances are discussing going this route 0/10 I will be waiting for the CEO update informing me of this new, more restrictive, rule for engagement. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Six Six Six
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:55:00 -
[183] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
To reiterate the question before concluding this post, is there any relevant point that I am missing? I understand there could be "irrelevant points" - getting off on blowing something to smithereens which poses no challenge or threat to you whatsoever, bullying, etc. (like beating up a cripple).
What I find amusing is that you seem to think that you should be allowed to fly through low-sec in a noob ship so you can explore without consequence.
The fact you are in low-sec makes you a potential target regardless of what ship you're in. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3581
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:07:00 -
[184] - Quote
Six Six Six wrote:Asmodai Xodai wrote:To reiterate the question before concluding this post, is there any relevant point that I am missing? I understand there could be "irrelevant points" - getting off on blowing something to smithereens which poses no challenge or threat to you whatsoever, bullying, etc. (like beating up a cripple). What I find amusing is that you seem to think that you should be allowed to fly through low-sec in a noob ship so you can explore without consequence. The fact you are in low-sec makes you a potential target regardless of what ship you're in. Suddenly, light a cyno and its hotdrop timeeeeee I am a nullsec zealot. |
Sishen Gzi
Hellion Support Services
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:24:00 -
[185] - Quote
I'm having a major case of deja vu here, oh right, that's because this thread already exists except last time you were concerned about you losing drakes in null sec. I really can't picture losing a noobship at a gate, really if your skills are so bad that you're getting caught at a gate you should stay in high sec either that or if they are good enough then pay better attention to whats around you. Your post makes you seem like some guy that goes into a ghetto with only pocket change on them and gets robbed and then stabbed for not carrying enough money and on the way to the hospital calls the robber an idiot for committing a crime for pocket change. I'll also give you the same answer I put in you other thread. The game designers want this game to be about pvp, the other stuff is put in to support you as you pvp, if you are doing the other stuff for reasons other then supporting your pvp or you are avoiding pvp then although it is not against the eula you are still playing the game wrong. |
Ryu Ibarazaki
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
63
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:33:00 -
[186] - Quote
Who's the Dr. Frankenstein that resurrected this old thread? You are cruel sir, cruel.
|
Mirima Thurander
Dark Order. Self Sabatoge
650
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:35:00 -
[187] - Quote
I can tell you why everyone shoots everything the can all the time, Kill-Mails
EvE has been infested with a plague of people that only care about comparing there KB stats, much like people that play CoD compare K:D ratio's.
I have never been/Will never be a fan of kill mails, i played before kill-mails where around in any form, back then you new about people based on word of mouth, unlike today, where the masses think there EvE-fame is based on a Stat sheet on some web page.
All automated intel should be removed from the game including jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3581
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 04:03:00 -
[188] - Quote
I admit, initially, the topic suggested to me a discussion on shooting POS. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Shao Huang
University of Caille Gallente Federation
184
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 04:10:00 -
[189] - Quote
I confess I am fascinated with EVE. I still don't know if I actually like the game of the game yet. Still in my noobosity looking for it, but really like the EVErse.
That what is represented in this thread seems to happen again and again is fascinating to me and very distinctive about the game. People enter the game. The game has a lot of deterministic structure, but compared to other games a very limited rule set. People often confuse rules and structure.
I have spent a great deal of time over many years creating RW environments with deep structure and very flexible, or even non-existent rule sets in a wide variety of settings, for a wide variety of purposes. I am a type of designer. Some consistent things happen.
When successful in creating such an environment participants often very rapidly come into contact with a rule system and expectations they are carrying around in their own heads, but usually assume exist outside of themselves. EVE is an amazing environment for this. Responses to this moment vary greatly, but the moment is very consistent and recognizable. EVE tears is one kind of response.
The response in which people cannot come to terms with the self generated nature of their own system of rules, generalized expectations, etc. is usually understood in the context of EVE as 'tears'. Something has occurred which does not fit their model of the world, which they take to exist independently from themselves, but paradoxically is also the basis for their functional identity. It is often the case that people in this moment will insist on some wrongness in the world or others, rather than considering whether or not their model is structurally appropriate to what is occurring. More tears.
Often, as in the case of the OP, this seems to involve some fixed, 'authorized' assertion of meaning. Arguments that are proximal to their prefigured model and meaning making are at least considered. Arguments and data that offer meaning outside of their model are dismissed, if they are perceived at all. Sometimes they will complexify their model. Motives are attributed according their own model. There is a consistent investment in 'other' and 'negation' as a way of reinforcing their now 'threatened' identity and world view. Typically the chance that there may be no meaning involved is viewed as completely impossible. More tears.
This moment involves the possibility of a kind of existential crisis. That journey is really quite something. It is also one of the few moments in which liberation and learning are most profoundly available. Creating access to such moments in a safe environment can be considered a compassionate act, as opposed to say encountering them in a situation where the learning curve is so steep that actually dying individually or in great numbers is the consequence of getting it wrong.
In saying this, I am by no means suggesting that everyone or even anyone is consciously seeking to stimulate or particiapte in such existential crisis, emancipatory process or learning. That is the genius of the the thing. Just playing the game seems to result in this again and again. Whether people navigate it 'successfully' or not is another matter altogether.
It is a relatively open environment where you encounter many people of relative diversity. Because of the nature of the environment what you first encounter, however, is yourself. A journey and narrative become available and can be engaged or actively ignored. Private sig. Do not read. |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Bitten.
178
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 04:29:00 -
[190] - Quote
Its worth killing for the killmail
Its worth killing for potential tears
Its worth killing because it might be scouting
Its worth killing because it might light a cyno |
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Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
210
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 05:07:00 -
[191] - Quote
Blowing up ships and killing pods makes you a better person.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4955
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 05:19:00 -
[192] - Quote
It's worth killing because it's a ******* game and it's fun. |
Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 05:24:00 -
[193] - Quote
Yeah, a lot of what I see is rather mindless. It would even be apt to compare many of the pirates and other low/null dwellers as barely above jellyfish, in that they roam [float] around until a reaction [popping something that moves] is triggered by a stimuli [being present in same system].
Not that I'm even against the act of piracy or aggression in low/null as a thing or would want it to end, but I can say I expect more from pirates and the like. Where's the thought behind it all, the careful selection of prime targets? The large coordination to take something bigger and loot? Letting smaller fish pass through unharmed so an area doesn't gain a reputation as being plain 100% deadly, becoming barren and empty of things to pop. That may even cause them to maybe let their guard down and come back through again in something bigger and juicier?
I don't like pirates, but I do expect more from them than jellyfish. |
Pitrolo Orti
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 05:29:00 -
[194] - Quote
Epic post Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
|
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 05:43:00 -
[195] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Yeah, a lot of what I see is rather mindless. It would even be apt to compare many of the pirates and other low/null dwellers as barely above jellyfish, in that they float [roam] around until a reaction [popping something that moves] is triggered by a stimuli [being present in same system].
Not that I'm even against the act of piracy or aggression in low/null as a thing or would want it to end, but I can say I expect more from pirates and the like. Where's the thought behind it all, the careful selection of prime targets? The large coordination to take something bigger and loot? Letting smaller fish pass through unharmed so an area doesn't gain a reputation as being plain 100% deadly, becoming barren and empty of things to pop. That may even cause them to maybe let their guard down and come back through again in something bigger and juicier?
I don't like pirates, but I do expect more from them than jellyfish.
Others have already pointed out that even a seemingly harmless ship appearing could be a precursor to serious trouble.
My personal take on this is that anyone ignorant enough to allow himself to be caught deserves a lesson. It's in part a territorial instinct. I do not camp gates, however.
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2419
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 05:49:00 -
[196] - Quote
Ryu Ibarazaki wrote:Who's the Dr. Frankenstein that resurrected this old thread? You are cruel sir, cruel. Blame Xen Solarus! He's the one you want!!
Grab yer pitchforks and torches erryone!!! We goin' git dat grave robbin' sumbitch!!!
INB4L! Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
632
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 09:19:00 -
[197] - Quote
Holy ****, the cry threads just keep coming. |
Brutus King
Hooligans Of War
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 09:24:00 -
[198] - Quote
*couldn't care less |
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
15
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 10:19:00 -
[199] - Quote
I used to not waste aggro on noobships.
Then I saw one pop a cyno.
Now I exterminate them like roaches, down to the very last ones.
I even kill the "eggs." |
Garresh
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
171
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 10:35:00 -
[200] - Quote
Because they're too stupid to gank anywhere else, honestly. Lowsec gate camping is how people who are bad at PvP kill things. And before you call me a care bear I started off ninja salvaging and ganking mission runners(which actually takes a fair amount of skill if they knew you're coming). I've see many skilled pilots in low, in fw, in wspace, and hell even suicide gankers in high sec. Especially suicide gankers in highsec actually, cause they need to weigh risks and costs and attempt to covertly scan their mark.
Why do you think there's no blogs about gate camping? Because even they know it doesn't take any skill and is boring. I'm honestly amazed to this day how bad gate camps are. I live in low and seem to fly through them in a daily basis without getting killed.
But yeah OP, gate camps are manned by retards and easy as **** to slip through. Just run istabs or cloak MWD and you can make lowsec your playground. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
|
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
338
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 18:19:00 -
[201] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote: Just an observation here. But throughout this thread you don't seem to have taken on board the many reasons people have given to you for your ships being killed. You seem to be focused upon picking out a small sub section with psychological problems and have tarred the whole of the eve player base with this label.
Not true. The reason I have dismissed many (albeit well-intentioned) reasons people have given is that they don't fit the situation I already described. Basically, people aren't reading my post carefully. For instance, I continue to hear explanations involving 'gate camps,' but I have already said that these aren't gate camps I am encountering. I continue to hear explanations involving loot that could be dropped, but (I think) I already said that they don't even sift through the loot - I know this because I come right back again after being killed only to find my cargo that was dropped unopened. I also said that these folks don't seem to be defending corporate owned space, because these 0.4 systems I visit aren't corporate owned. Basically, I put a lot of thought into my original post which pre ruled-out a lot of reasons people would give, because I didn't want to waste time and text space. Now, I didn't initially focus on the psycho or sociopath element. In fact I was initially wondering whether "experience points" were awarded for this kind of thing. It was others who said they loved to feast on tears or whatever, and others pointed out that lots of these kind of people exist. Basically, it has been pointed out that a group of people enjoy being assholes just to imagine the look on the 'victim's' face. So far, this explanation is the only one that seems to fit with the data I have given so far. It is what it is. Quote:Calling every player who enjoys hunting and blowing up other ships a sociopath is a foolish generalisation at best. I'd love to see you quote me where I said this.
Doesn't have to be corporate owned to be corporate ran. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
527
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 19:47:00 -
[202] - Quote
Low sec isn't about your ship, they are tanking gates. Chances are they are hiding something. It might be a reactions POS, it might be Capital production but they have something in that system or systems that sanction the paranoia of meta game counter strategy.
What New people need to appreciate is, there is no more ISK in lows sec than there is in high sec. Not in mining, not in ratting, not really in looting. Don't waste your time going there. It is something most new players need to learn for themselves though. As you said, it didn't cost you much. You did it right. Just suffice it to say, there is a reason, you just don't know it.
tldr: It isn't you, it's the guy pretending to be you but really out to wreck other peoples years of work. Welcome to the biggest meta scam in the MMO Genre, EVE Online. |
Maruan Ibnis
Stillwater Enterprises
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 19:54:00 -
[203] - Quote
Cyno alts.
Cyno alts everywhere. |
Jarod Garamonde
Action Bastards
138
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 19:57:00 -
[204] - Quote
oh my gods, is Asmodai still crying? "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1807
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 20:25:00 -
[205] - Quote
Shao Huang wrote:I confess I am fascinated with EVE. I still don't know if I actually like the game of the game yet. Still in my noobosity looking for it, but really like the EVErse.
That what is represented in this thread seems to happen again and again is fascinating to me and very distinctive about the game. People enter the game. The game has a lot of deterministic structure, but compared to other games a very limited rule set. People often confuse rules and structure.
I have spent a great deal of time over many years creating RW environments with deep structure and very flexible, or even non-existent rule sets in a wide variety of settings, for a wide variety of purposes. I am a type of designer. Some consistent things happen.
When successful in creating such an environment participants often very rapidly come into contact with a rule system and expectations they are carrying around in their own heads, but usually assume exist outside of themselves. EVE is an amazing environment for this. Responses to this moment vary greatly, but the moment is very consistent and recognizable. EVE tears is one kind of response.
The response in which people cannot come to terms with the self generated nature of their own system of rules, generalized expectations, etc. is usually understood in the context of EVE as 'tears'. Something has occurred which does not fit their model of the world, which they take to exist independently from themselves, but paradoxically is also the basis for their functional identity. It is often the case that people in this moment will insist on some wrongness in the world or others, rather than considering whether or not their model is structurally appropriate to what is occurring. More tears.
Often, as in the case of the OP, this seems to involve some fixed, 'authorized' assertion of meaning. Arguments that are proximal to their prefigured model and meaning making are at least considered. Arguments and data that offer meaning outside of their model are dismissed, if they are perceived at all. Sometimes they will complexify their model. Motives are attributed according their own model. There is a consistent investment in 'other' and 'negation' as a way of reinforcing their now 'threatened' identity and world view. Typically the chance that there may be no meaning involved is viewed as completely impossible. More tears.
This moment involves the possibility of a kind of existential crisis. That journey is really quite something. It is also one of the few moments in which liberation and learning are most profoundly available. Creating access to such moments in a safe environment can be considered a compassionate act, as opposed to say encountering them in a situation where the learning curve is so steep that actually dying individually or in great numbers is the consequence of getting it wrong.
In saying this, I am by no means suggesting that everyone or even anyone is consciously seeking to stimulate or particiapte in such existential crisis, emancipatory process or learning. That is the genius of the the thing. Just playing the game seems to result in this again and again. Whether people navigate it 'successfully' or not is another matter altogether.
It is a relatively open environment where you encounter many people of relative diversity. Because of the nature of the environment what you first encounter, however, is yourself. A journey and narrative become available and can be engaged or actively ignored.
This is an academic paper level post, and very well said.
I can't say it enough, you just described EVERY.SINGLE.PLAYER who losst a ship under totally legitimate (ie EULA legal) situation and posted about on this forum. I mean, they are actuially SURPRISED that somone would shoot them in a game where the vast majority of ships desings are combat ships and were msot ships actually flown have guns on them..
Some people seek comfort in "their own little world/bubble" and if you violate that, they get kind of crazy. Yet they chose to play a game that is ABOUT bursting other people's bubbles (and I say EVE is "about" that because, again, look who made the game, look at the core structure and ruleset of the game and look at all the ships with guns).
Again, well reasoned post, good job.
|
Drunken Bum
309
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 20:36:00 -
[206] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:oh my gods, is Asmodai still crying? That last thread was pure gold. This one, eh, he could do better. Spare some change?-á |
Fragwit
Tellurian Works Dark Taboo
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 21:29:00 -
[207] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:oh my gods, is Asmodai still crying?
It would appear he is. I met him in null he didn't seem happy then. He mailed me and promised me he would be bringing a 100 sigils for me to shoot. I haven't seen him yet and I stocked up on ammo, I feel cheated. Asmodai, as one of the troubled few who take great delight in disturbing your game play, you want my reason for shooting noob ships. Sometimes they have loot (yes i do check), sometimes they are scouts, I collect corpses (I have yours) and ultimately because I can. |
Jarod Garamonde
Action Bastards
139
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 21:35:00 -
[208] - Quote
Fragwit wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:oh my gods, is Asmodai still crying? It would appear he is. I met him in null he didn't seem happy then. He mailed me and promised me he would be bringing a 100 sigils for me to shoot. I haven't seen him yet and I stocked up on ammo, I feel cheated. Asmodai, as one of the troubled few who take great delight in disturbing your game play, you want my reason for shooting noob ships. Sometimes they have loot (yes i do check), sometimes they are scouts, I collect corpses (I have yours) and ultimately because I can.
NBSI... nooblets should avoid areas where that law is in place. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1447
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 21:41:00 -
[209] - Quote
There is no point in PvPing. There is no point in mining. There is no point in running missions. There is no point in building ships. There is no point in running corporations, or creating empires, or helping other players.
Eve is a game. We do these things because we enjoy them. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Asmodai Xodai
Legio Geminatus Gentlemen's Agreement
80
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 21:45:00 -
[210] - Quote
Do you realize you guys are writing in a three month old thread? I guess there aren't rules about that around here?
At any rate, the topic remains quite relevant. But what I've realized is, most any topic with any 'highbrow' component at all (like, anything beyond 3rd grade reading comprehension level) is way too sophisticated for these forums. At least 80% of all posters on these forums are trolls (and not even particularly good or clever ones). The remaining 20% have serious reading comprehension issues, and can't read, understand, and respond to what is written (they think you wrote something you didn't write, and respond to that instead).
I like to discuss strategy, game theory, things like that (what this thread is essentially about, and others). What I've learned is, it's impossible to do that here. The mindless trolls just attack and troll. The reading-comprehension challenged misunderstand you.
I actually don't blame the mindless trolls so much. That's like blaming a rattlesnake for being a rattlesnake. I blame CCP for allowing this toilet of a forum to exist in the state that it does. |
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