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ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
73
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Posted - 2013.03.18 10:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
There are many good responses to your original question. I would add that 0.4 systems are the gates to lower sec status systems. If you are interested in exploring, get to lower sec systems quickly. (0.3, 0.2 etc)
Tear collectors seem to hang about border systems looking for new players looking for rarer ore. Just be aware the Rats do get bigger and more numerous the lower you go. ISD Gallifreyan Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1249
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 11:10:00 -
[62] - Quote
Haven't read through *everything* (so it might be here)
Velator (and IIRC, the other noobships), with appropriate fitting skills can fit a cyno + fuel without any additional modules (cargohold expansion, co-processor, etc). Better to get rid of it before the big guns show up... One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Chopper Rollins
Sky Prey
184
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Posted - 2013.03.18 11:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
UGH social Darwinism is pernicious and wrong. First couple pages of this thread were uglier than usual.
Bosena, Qualm Singulari sniping indies and everything in Amarr battleships. I fly me reaper out to loot wrecks, just to be a ****. POW now i'm in Heild, jump or so away where i have me clone. Charge in reaper! POW WaaaaAAARRgggHH POW Hey you guise wats goin POW
Eventually there was this cloud of my corpses and wrecks. One guy asked if he got loyalty points podding me and i'm like SURE WHY NOT KNOCK YOURSELF OUT. POW Yargh my anus! POW Think of the children POW Wait don't shoot POW
They all docked up. I came back in a wreathe and made 7 trips moving all the loot they left. It really is no fun when the victim is having fun with it. Spaec adventure gaem allows you to entirely embrace the punk rock concept of accepting the terms of your enemy's attack and even siding with your enemy in that attack.
The egotists in eve are the cruellest and at the same time the most susceptible to suffering, funny how that works. TLDR for the livestock: Flexibility allows speed
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
70
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Posted - 2013.03.18 11:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote: And there is possibility of non-benefits. Everybody who shot me with a missle lost, because they paid for the missle but gained nothing. Meanwhile, I lost nothing. It's kind of funny.
That possibility is outweighed by far by the potential gains. To Everyone that can afford to fit and fly a Tengu in low sec and even actively engage in PVP (You could still be the bait after all) the price of the missiles he wasted on you is such an insignifficant amount off isk that it could be none at all, he won't even notice.
On the other hand, You could've carried one thousand plexes in Your cargo hold.
Granted, the chance of anyone doing something like this is nigh nonexistent, but it's there and it wouldn't be the first time. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
358
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Posted - 2013.03.18 11:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Roime wrote:
What kind of objectives a solo or small gang pilot could set, besides KB stats that satisfy them? (This is a real question). I love PVP, would adding some lite RP objectives improve my game? Driving farmers out of wormholes would be something that I'd be interested in, but getting my space brosefs to shoot POSes is impossible, and I do understand them :D
You could also pick a FW militia and assist in them taking or defending a system, even without directly joining a militia.
Also does "aligning the Venture at a low speed" actually help in any way? You still need to accelerate to full speed for warp to kick in. |
J'Poll
The Fiction Factory Tribal Band
1984
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Posted - 2013.03.18 11:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:If you've ever studied game theory you'd get why every player shoots noobships, it's because it costs you nothing and there are possible benefits whereas not shooting you doesn't even have the possibility of benefits. Actually, I have studied game theory. I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the overwhelming number of people who play this game haven't (including the behavior of those you are trying to explain). In other words, I don't think people studying game theory explains this behavior. And there is possibility of non-benefits. Everybody who shot me with a missle lost, because they paid for the missle but gained nothing. Meanwhile, I lost nothing. It's kind of funny. Quote:But he doesn't do it for no reason, he does it for tears. Which you duly provided. Hopefully he's seen this forum thread now aswell for a bonus session If he imagined that I provided tears, and if he imagines that I am providing more now, then more power to him, and I hope he has a good jerk-off session over it. And you too, if that's what floats your boat.
Okay they shoot you with a missile. For what they know you are a ****** and carry reaply expensive stuff. Which make them have an income.
Or you are a neutral cyno for a cap fleet that just got stalled.
If you go into lowsec you are warned that its dangerous. This counts for all ships.
Now. Keep the tears going. Tank almost full again..... |
Skeln Thargensen
Filthy Carebear Tax Avoidance Shell Corp
63
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Posted - 2013.03.18 11:41:00 -
[67] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:looks like the OP died to a serial camper. he has a most impressive K/D ratio and never, ever moves. It has happened many times. Same modus operandi (cloaked cruiser, blah blah). Same results. Just a different system and different perpetrator every time. I have zero doubts that I could pull up the map right now and randomly pick any 0.4 system anywhere, and go there in a noobship or venture. The same exact thing with the same exact modus operandi would happen in very short order. I think all these "cloaked cruiser gankers" studied at the same school or something. Try it yourself. Just check your clone first.
Oh I'm fully aware that these guys infest low sec. they're sitting on every other low to high sec gate and mission agent station. as i said in my other post there are tricks you can learn, specifically involving fitting a microwarpdrive and cloaking device and setting up undock instawarp bookmarks, that let you slip by these guys effortlessly, even in cruisers. smaller ships you might have fast enough align to not even require that.
you can even escape bubble camps if you keep your head and run dual prop. good ones though... yeah now that's what you can call futile. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
893
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:26:00 -
[68] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote: Actually, I have studied game theory. I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the overwhelming number of people who play this game haven't (including the behavior of those you are trying to explain). In other words, I don't think people studying game theory explains this behavior.
If you had studied game theory and it's application instead of reading the wikipedia page you'd know a knowledge of game theory isn't required to take part in a game, meerely that you are a rational actor, which requires you knowing the rules of the game.
The situation you have described is a game where the PvPer has two options: Kill or don't kill.
Kill provides plenty of potential benefits, not matter how small the benefit or the possibility or getting that benefit, and not killing provides literally no benefit to the PvPer.
Therefore any rational actor will always pick the kill option as there is no reason not to. They don't need to know game theory to know that, they just need to know the rules of the game, which they do.
If you have actually studied game theory it sounds like you failed the course. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
baltec1
Bat Country
5598
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
You can fit a cyno to a nub ship. |
Ken 1138
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus Rebel Alliance of New Eden
36
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:39:00 -
[70] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Ken 1138 wrote:It's quite simple, people really do "get off" on killing anything player related from noob ships to property. This is what I've learned from all types of games from shooters to MMOs like EVE. Since the start of online gaming many many people only play a game to ruin someone's day. EVE can have that hard hitting impact. However...
High sec wars and random PVP never make sense to me. The other side, the aggressor side isn't gaining anything, even if the kill drops something of value. Cost of buying the ship, fitting the ship, arming the ship, stocking the ship with ammo, waiting for a target and killing the target. You have lost everything. ISK, time, maybe even your ship and let's be honest respect from the other player. For what? A almost nothing bounty, a kill board post that few if anyone except yourself even look at?
I feel the same way about people who do nothing but mine, or mission, or station trade to accumulate stupid amounts of ISK without ever using it on anything but more mining accounts or a more pimped mission running ship.
Yes i agree, plus i don't know about the rest of you but it's fun to switch "professions" in EVE from time to time. I just need 2 solid months of skill training to get into blops. |
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
195
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Kara Corvinus wrote:fun Pronunciation: /f-în/
...
I said I understood that there could be "irrelevant points" to this activity - beating up cripples or old ladies and getting off on it (basically a sociopathic/psychopathic mentality). I was wondering if there were any possible relevant points to such acts.
It's a game, so fun IS a relevant point. It should actually be THE MOST RELEVANT point of all. And it's a noobship not an old lady or a cripple.
If you try to make a point about that there should only be FAIR fights why don't you just say so. |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
195
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 13:34:00 -
[72] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Babies aren't off limits in the real world - see "abortion." What hellhole are you from? you abort babies? Where i'm from it's only allowed to abort a fetus. Pretty sick story bro. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2260
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 14:30:00 -
[73] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Roime wrote:
What kind of objectives a solo or small gang pilot could set, besides KB stats that satisfy them? (This is a real question). I love PVP, would adding some lite RP objectives improve my game? Driving farmers out of wormholes would be something that I'd be interested in, but getting my space brosefs to shoot POSes is impossible, and I do understand them :D
You could also pick a FW militia and assist in them taking or defending a system, even without directly joining a militia. Also does "aligning the Venture at a low speed" actually help in any way? You still need to accelerate to full speed for warp to kick in.
Or just join FW :) yeah, that's been bubbling under for some time, maybe one day we leave our high plains of gold and amber and see what the fuzz is all about.
It's not 100% of speed, it's 75%, but anyway- less time to accelerate from some speed vs full stop aka better than nothing. Mostly my point was that it's a bit tricky to be fully aligned with a fast ship like Venture and still keep your gassers/miners running. And not really needed, the Venture is quicksilver in a teflon case.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Jonah Gravenstein
Khalkotauroi Defence Labs
6540
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 14:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
Roime wrote: It's not 100% of speed, it's 75%, but anyway- less time to accelerate from some speed vs full stop aka better than nothing. Mostly my point was that it's a bit tricky to be fully aligned with a fast ship like Venture and still keep your gassers/miners running. And not really needed, the Venture is quicksilver in a teflon case.
Two Ventures, each equipped with a web active on the other, aligned to a celestial should be able to mine while moving at a speed that allows them to hit warp fast, the built in double WCS works to their advantage as well, it requires multiple points to actually tackle them.
Eve in a nutshell, it's you vs the universe, and every machiavellian space bastard in it. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
78
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Posted - 2013.03.18 14:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
What doesn't fit into an objective means-test on 'value' of blapping a noobship is the simple fun and blowing up another players ship, regardless of size/fit/cost... Your first mistake is trying to compare what is 'fun' for you with other players, in a sandbox it is whatever each person wants it to be.
For example, I may not be part of the 'cool kids leetz PVP' side of the EVE house because I enjoy blapping miners and PVE-fit mission runners, but I *enjoy* it.
Leetz pvp'ers will scoff and demean my chosen profession of hisec piracy, but if I find it thorougly enjoyable who is right to gainsay that? Soon as someone else pays my subscription, then they can tell me how I 'should' play eve.
F http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
292
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 14:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You can fit a cyno to a nub ship.
You can also cram it full of BPO's and PLEX.
TL;DR, because I can, because you're there, and because I really like pressing my F1 key and watching something go 'foooooom!' |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1252
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 14:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
Roime wrote: It's not 100% of speed, it's 75%, but anyway- less time to accelerate from some speed vs full stop aka better than nothing. Mostly my point was that it's a bit tricky to be fully aligned with a fast ship like Venture and still keep your gassers/miners running. And not really needed, the Venture is quicksilver in a teflon case.
corpie with webber (or 3) helps here ... One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2013.03.18 17:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
You have highlighted one of the key issues with EVE. Next time, don't waste so much time trying to preempt the trolls.
If you post it; they will come. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1776
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 19:08:00 -
[79] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Kara Corvinus wrote:fun Pronunciation: /f-în/
...
I said I understood that there could be "irrelevant points" to this activity - beating up cripples or old ladies and getting off on it (basically a sociopathic/psychopathic mentality). I was wondering if there were any possible relevant points to such acts.
I'm sure if you'd explained that you were a crippled old lady, the nice man with the missiles would've helped you cross the system instead.
Me, I blow up everything that moves in case it drops something shiny. You never know what's inside that cargo hold until you crack it open.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2013.03.18 19:33:00 -
[80] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all.
I pretty much did this when I first started. (It was a few years ago, when noob-ships were much less of a threat.) I thought they would get tired at some point, but they literally just sat there killing my noob ship for hours. The short and unsatisfying answer as to why, as far as I can tell is simply this: People are apes.
I didn't understand, at first, either. The first thing you should take into account is that we are basically chimpanzees. The main difference between a good number of humans on this Earth and their ape cousins is a baseball cap and an iPod, and they will mimmick what they see. (Monkey see; monkey do.) So, if they see someone else be a jackass, they (sociopaths) will likely be influenced to be one as well, because "that's how we play the game". Others (vandals and sadists) are probably genuinely destructive, anti-social individuals who enjoy "making things go boom" and "harvesting tears". Still others (cowards) probably do it defensively, because it is better to be the "lion" than the "gazelle". A fourth group (psychopaths) are those that actually advocate such behavior, as it serves their purposes in a crude, but effective way, although, it is probably rare to find this last group actually perpetrating the behavior themselves.
I think these 4 groups do most of the "mindless" PVP. The "mindful" PVP is obviously a lot more complicated, and it is sometimes hard to differentiate the two. Learning the "why" is part of the metagame that makes EVE so challenging and so rewarding. Good luck, capsuleer. |
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baltec1
Bat Country
5613
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 19:53:00 -
[81] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Asmodai Xodai wrote:Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all. I pretty much did this when I first started. (It was a few years ago, when noob-ships were much less of a threat.) I thought they would get tired at some point, but they literally just sat there killing my noob ship for hours. The short and unsatisfying answer as to why, as far as I can tell is simply this: People are apes. I didn't understand, at first, either. The first thing you should take into account is that we are basically chimpanzees. The main difference between a good number of humans on this Earth and their ape cousins is a baseball cap and an iPod, and they will mimmick what they see. (Monkey see; monkey do.) So, if they see someone else be a jackass, they (sociopaths) will likely be influenced to be one as well, because "that's how we play the game". Others (vandals and sadists) are probably genuinely destructive, anti-social individuals who enjoy "making things go boom" and "harvesting tears". Still others (cowards) probably do it defensively, because it is better to be the "lion" than the "gazelle". A fourth group (psychopaths) are those that actually advocate such behavior, as it serves their purposes in a crude, but effective way, although, it is probably rare to find this last group actually perpetrating the behavior themselves. I think these 4 groups do most of the "mindless" PVP. The "mindful" PVP is obviously a lot more complicated, and it is sometimes hard to differentiate the two. Learning the "why" is part of the metagame that makes EVE so challenging and so rewarding. Good luck, capsuleer.
This is why we shoot rookie ships. |
Charlie Jacobson
53
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Posted - 2013.03.18 20:34:00 -
[82] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:This is why we shoot rookie ships.
Mmmm, tasty nanoribbons |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
348
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 20:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
a noobship may be a scout, destroying it before the pilot of the noobship is able to finish identifying all the ships on the gate is advantageous.
Moot point. If he decloaks before he has identified the ships on the gate, either:
A) He is a window licker who doesn't know how to play, so you need not worry
B) He is an extremely slow counter, you need not worry
C) He is on autopilot to his scouting destination, you need not worry
Alternatively, if everyone decloaks to kill a noobship, and give away your numbers, lol gtfo. |
Kodama Ikari
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
30
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 20:39:00 -
[84] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Kara Corvinus wrote:fun Pronunciation: /f-în/
...
I said I understood that there could be "irrelevant points" to this activity - beating up cripples or old ladies and getting off on it (basically a sociopathic/psychopathic mentality). I was wondering if there were any possible relevant points to such acts.
After all that effort to make this seem like not-a-whine thread, here you go an blow it by saying "fun" = IRL sociopath. Some first-hand PI tips |
Asmodai Xodai
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2013.03.18 21:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Asmodai Xodai wrote:Believe it or not, I actually did start working on creating as many noobships as I could, for the express purpose of towing them over to this guy in my industrial ship, and hopping in them one by one so he could kill them all. I pretty much did this when I first started. (It was a few years ago, when noob-ships were much less of a threat.) I thought they would get tired at some point, but they literally just sat there killing my noob ship for hours. The short and unsatisfying answer as to why, as far as I can tell is simply this: People are apes. I didn't understand, at first, either. The first thing you should take into account is that we are basically chimpanzees. The main difference between a good number of humans on this Earth and their ape cousins is a baseball cap and an iPod, and they will mimmick what they see. (Monkey see; monkey do.) So, if they see someone else be a jackass, they (sociopaths) will likely be influenced to be one as well, because "that's how we play the game". Others (vandals and sadists) are probably genuinely destructive, anti-social individuals who enjoy "making things go boom" and "harvesting tears". Still others (cowards) probably do it defensively, because it is better to be the "lion" than the "gazelle". A fourth group (psychopaths) are those that actually advocate such behavior, as it serves their purposes in a crude, but effective way, although, it is probably rare to find this last group actually perpetrating the behavior themselves. I think these 4 groups do most of the "mindless" PVP. The "mindful" PVP is obviously a lot more complicated, and it is sometimes hard to differentiate the two. Learning the "why" is part of the metagame that makes EVE so challenging and so rewarding. Good luck, capsuleer.
There were a few sincere individuals with some good posts here and there. But I think this is not only the best post here, but possibly the best post I've read on these forums.
+1. Cheers. |
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
19
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Posted - 2013.03.18 21:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
claiming that players are psychopaths, sociopaths and whatever just because they like killing pixels controlled by another player is as credible as saying someone who plays COD alot is a Marine. Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 21:52:00 -
[87] - Quote
Asmodai Xodai wrote:Solstice Project wrote: Easy prey will always get killed first. It's natural. Except when babies are involved. /
Babies aren't off limits in the real world - see "abortion." However, most of your points are fine except for the spy/scout/cyno-alt suggestion, which I believe is inaccurate in these cases as this happens to me in 0.4 "non player-corp owned" systems (but I could totally see this logic in null-sec corp. owned systems). Thanks.
Actually, player corps, or even players do try to take control of low sec systems. I've even heard of corporations hiring mercs to take control of high sec belts and prevent other miners from mining there.
Another good reason is often times it is always best to shoot first. Sometimes by the time you have checked the ship, double clicked their profile in local to check their corp history etc, then it's too late. So shooting first becomes a natural reaction to a lot of players.
Control of resources is also another issue. If a noob ship is entering a system, then if nothing kills it then it may think it is safe. Next the pilot will be bringing in ventures and perhaps other ships to mine the resources from the system.
Generally I have a strict policy of only attacking reds, and a few others also have this policy, although it can put you at a disadvantage in certain situations and most people will simply shoot anything. |
baltec1
Bat Country
5614
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 21:54:00 -
[88] - Quote
Domina Trix wrote:claiming that players are psychopaths, sociopaths and whatever just because they like killing pixels controlled by another player is as credible as saying someone who plays COD alot is a Marine.
Its their last line of defence, blaming themselves is simply something they are not willing to do. |
Fairren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 22:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
Some men just want to watch the pixelated world burn. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 22:09:00 -
[90] - Quote
Ken 1138 wrote: After all these years of playing I truly think people are so bored with themselves that getting the (i'm in not using the term lightly here) "sexual thrill" of killing a player even just your noob ship over and over and over. Is the only way they keep going.
Lol. You paint a bleak picture of the eve player base there. I think anyone who gets a sexual thrill from blowing up online pixels has some serious problems.
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