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Tank CEO
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Posted - 2003.07.24 19:56:00 -
[1]
Can you blow them up and get the loot inside and how many hit points do they have?
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.24 19:58:00 -
[2]
1 million, last I heard. So... no, not really.
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.07.24 20:09:00 -
[3]
they actualy have... 10m hp... so yeah GL trying to blow one up :P
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Endureth
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Posted - 2003.07.24 21:57:00 -
[4]
It's a spite thing. The pirate might blow up a ship, but he's not getting the goods. Just wasting ammo. Not only that but a pirate scanning a cargo hold won't know exactly what's in the containers.
Pirates have shafted players long enough, only fair that those with the know-how can shaft em back.
-E
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Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.24 22:01:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Maarek Steele on 24/07/2003 22:04:31
Can other players scoop it to their cargo bays?
Introduce a Hacking skill that allows people to hack the containers.
Failing that, we could, out of spite, take the containers anyway. We may not have profited from it, but lord knows it had to be valuable to be in there so neither will you.
We'll make it up as technically only spent the time and ammunition blowing you up. You, on the other hand, are out a valuable BP, Piece of Equipment, or whatever else you put in there.
No matter how far you are willing to take something 'out of spite', the attacker will always win because the final one uppence will always be his.
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.07.24 22:10:00 -
[6]
GG CCP, secure cans rock. you just put all your stuff in a secure can before you get blown up, and come back to collect it when the hostiles are gone. And guess what, the cans dont blow up. Plus you cant open them with any module/skill, so your loot is safe. Run into pirates? No problem, just put all your "hard-earned" loot into a secure can and leave it for pickup later.
Thats just silly.
The cans all have "Made in Carebear Land - Product of Barney & The Bastards Inc." written on them.
-
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.24 22:13:00 -
[7]
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 24/07/2003 22:14:03
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 24/07/2003 22:13:55
Yeah, they still have to come back to it.
Like repeat customers.
And seeing as m0o can't destroy them, who gets the blame for leaving the cans there now?
*pictures 150 cans floating around the warp-in at FD-MLJ
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Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.24 22:18:00 -
[8]
Hmm I can see a new point evolving for pirates, if you're carrying a secure can, pay 10m minimum or get podkilled repeatedly when you come to pick it up.
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
eriq
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Posted - 2003.07.24 22:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: eriq on 24/07/2003 22:40:26
i have zero opinion regarding the secure cans but as i read the comments above i'm struck by the attitudes of some players.
what complete jerks you all must be in real life to just sit around your computers and scheme about how to many different ways you can be a jerk to your fellow players and the different machinations you come up with for the sole purpose of being a jerk and ruining the gameplay of others.
i feel sorry for all of you...
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Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.24 22:41:00 -
[10]
How were any of us being Jerks?
How pitiful are you to take anything about a game as seriously as real life (other than RL threats made in game of course).
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
Tnelyos
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Posted - 2003.07.24 22:49:00 -
[11]
what's the cargo cap of the large containers? i see two numbers listed.
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Ivanav Soulsteal
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Posted - 2003.07.24 22:55:00 -
[12]
Yup the word is out...
Good luck ever getting any "carred" items anymore. Eveyone is now placing all the items in secure containers.
Look on the bright side, you can allways sell all the great items they had equipted.
And so it begins.... |
Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.24 22:57:00 -
[13]
Ah well, its always more profitable to just blow everyone up and take their modules anyway.
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:01:00 -
[14]
c'mon, we're not being jerks. This thread is quite civilised.
Piracy!=jerkery.
Anyway... The idea for picking the lock is a valid one, as every action should have a possible counteraction. ie. Warp jammers/warp stabilisers, more powerful weapons/more powerful shields. missiles/defender missiles. as to how long it would take, and other details, that would be up to someone far more thinky than me.
From reports I've seen/heard, these containers have 1 million HP, and last over 15 hours in space. going back to the FD-MLJ example from earlier: Who is going to go back there to pick up their dropped cargo? Not many, I'd bet. If it is worth less than a million, it's probably not worth the risk of rescuing, so it will just sit there. This is not good.
Bear in mind that I have never entered combat with one of these cans, so my data here is mostly second hand. But from good sources.
.
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The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:17:00 -
[15]
Edited by: The Reverend on 24/07/2003 23:19:44
(Sorry, I don't tend to rant often if I can help it, I prefer a clear cut argument, but my bloods boiling)
What CCP gives with one hand - they take away with another.
I'm sick of hearing that we use cargo containers to lag out gates, as we have stated many times, they were used to block targetting and this was done once. I for one hate having the things lying around. However - as you all seem to think we use them, we might as well start, as CCP in its wisdom has given us the perfect excuse (the fact we can't blow them up) blame them from now on - when you arrive in system to get lagged out.
For those of you not already aware of it - CCP's other cuddy carebear solution, the super region systems (1.0) gates have a flaw as well.
1. No sentry guns at the gates.
2. CONCORD ratings are low in these systems meaning you can either blow up the ships in most cases with a decent group or easily avoid them. m0o realised this over 2 weeks ago, we filed a bug report and demostrated the bug to a polaris observer when challenged that we were (yet again) accused of lying.
We made a point of not forming blockades in these systems (except one day when the constant survellience of a polaris member annoyed us ) fiquring that if we did CCP's normal arsey answer would make travelling through empire space impossible for everyone.
Well if this is the damn reaction then CCP can go jump off into a hot pool, maybe they might have some damn sense knocked into them.
I have no problem with secure containers, given the amount of ore thiefs out there I can understand that reaction and even applaud it. But to make a container virtually immune to destruction is not roleplaying, its just plain bloody stupid. If you MUST put such idiotic ideas into action, then arrange it so these containers are only immune if the player is within 10km or it - or even better - have it so the owners shields overlap within 5km to protect it. That would add realism to the game, would allow CONCORD to react if another ship shot the thing (as effectivily that owner was being attacked) and yet allow ships to destroy cargo containers if a ship has left it stranded, or been destoyed.
Or a hacking skill as someone suggested earlier (again providing the container had been left in space abandoned)
m0ovie links |
Macumba
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:23:00 -
[16]
...Or instead of getting all sweaty palmed at the thought of being able to finally justify pod-killing people, instead of doing it "because you can".
Why not hold the goods to ransom? If they're of value and intact then people will probably pay extortionate amounts to get them back. What would you do to get that battleship BP back? Risk a few more ships being destroyed or put your hand in your pocket? I know which one I'd choose.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:33:00 -
[17]
Maybe I am annoyed because it has made a pirates life even harder, but you got to admit, a cargo container (without shields) along and defenceless with more hit points that a fleet of battleships. The logic is just totally flawed. I'm not complaining about the fact they are locked, I applaud that idea, we can still hold containers to ransom - but the option to blow them up if they won't negioate is all I'm asking for. Even 500 hp would be better than 1.000.000 + like it is now.
m0ovie links |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:35:00 -
[18]
You can't put anything inside a container if it is in your cargo hold.
_______________________________________________
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The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:37:00 -
[19]
BTW Macumba, if Oracle comes across a ship carrying slaves now and destroys it - how are they going to feel now that won't bea ble to open the container (assuming its locked), or destroy the container to put the poor slaves out of thier misery?
m0ovie links |
The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:38:00 -
[20]
Sorry Stealth, am I making an ass of myself here (not tried using the things yet) - are you saying that while u can ship the containers around, while you have them inside your ship you can't have anything actually inside the containers?
m0ovie links |
Saluretic
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:40:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Saluretic on 24/07/2003 23:41:57
ROFL!
made a pirate's life harder?
cry me a river
like sitting at a gate sniping passers-by and jumping through if the going gets tough isn't the least difficult and ingenious thing one could do...
though you're right, the concept of an indestructible tin can is pretty weak
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Macumba
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:42:00 -
[22]
Good thinking Batman. In all honesty I don't know. But judging by the ineptitude of traders we've seen so far they probably won't have the foresight to put them in a secure container.
There should be a way to bypass them. It's a no-brainer. The point I was making was that what may seem worthless or trivial to you might mean a hell of a lot to somebody else. Sure, a good 95% of people won't pay to have the goods returned, but that remaining 5% could be milked for all they're worth if the goods mean something to them.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.07.24 23:47:00 -
[23]
Good reply Macumba, I can see your point as well. Ack well, I've knocked off a couple of e-mails to a few people in CCP, will see what thier reply is.
So just to condense my point before I go to bed. My problem isn't with the idea of secure contianers (which I support even though its going to make one aspect of profiting through pirating harder), just that the option to destroy the container if all other options for opening/charging from collection is not avalible and in some cases can be used as an exploit. Sleep well all and as Ywev would say, Pod you Later
Rev
m0ovie links |
Amicus
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Posted - 2003.07.25 00:41:00 -
[24]
Speaking as a miner, these secure containers are not what we asked for.  We do not need a small container to cart things around with. We need a huge container (e.g., 15k m3) that we can store ore in at the job site, and when the job is done, empty it, fold it back up, and cart the container away. The container does not need to be impervious to attack. We just need to have the right to shoot, or similarly threaten, anyone that attacks the container without incurring the wrath of the police or a security hit.
The current containers are not a good solution to ore theivery, if that was their design. We have corporate security hangers now, so they are unnecessary for preventing hanger theft. Even though I usually side with the carebears in the pirate v. carebear disputes, the current containers do seem to be a bit of an overkill for limiting piracy.
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Thaddius Engle
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Posted - 2003.07.25 00:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Thaddius Engle on 25/07/2003 00:47:16
I haven't tried the secure containers yet, but I have a couple questions:
StealthNet stated that you can't put anything in them while they're in your cargo hold... is that true? If so, then much of the debate in this thread is kind of moot...
How long do secure containers last in space?
---
Here's some thoughts on how I would implement a 'lockable' container...
* make them password protected
* add a new hacking skill which gives a decreasing chance of failure with level.
+ perhaps 2 skills, where the 2nd one can't be learned till the first is level 5 (like refining efficiency)?
+ let failure cause a -.05 hit or so to security or even better, have the sec hit dependent on the security level of the system you're attempting the hack (maybe -.05 in 1.0 sec, and no sec hit in 0.0 space).
* containers shouldn't be invulnerable, but let them still be fairly tough. Say, 1000 hp (would take a n00b ship with civvy guns a while but a heavy ship wouldn't have any trouble shredding it)
+ Also, since the container is "owned", we could also apply a security penalty for blowing one up that isn't yours... again, let that be dependent on the security level of the system you're in. (this might also help reduce the 'grief' play style in high sec areas where someone flys around in a n00b ship just blowing up cans without even attempting to rob them)
+ Or better yet, flag someone as hostile if they attack or try to hack your cargo for 5 or 10 minutes so you may, if you choose, attack them without penalty. :D
* Also, the penalties to attacking/hacking cargo should not be imposed if the cargo can is owned by a member of a corp you're at war with... after all, attrition is a major part of any war 
Anyways, just some thoughts... maybe good / maybe bad, but I don't think making them invulnerable is good in the gameplay sense.
Personally, I think lockable containers, if done well and integrated into the game with the right pros and cons could be very useful and a value add. |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.25 00:51:00 -
[26]
Well - you can scan them to see their contents, so some form of hacking skill to unlock them is a good gameplay mechanism, especially if coupled with a "selfdestruct on failure" and eventual a "scan-proof" can also.
You can have items in them inside your cargo - that bit of misinformation should be cleared up immediately... and thus their "780 contents in 650 cargo" (for the large) is also a ready cargo-expander system.
They do need to be more readily destroyable, i had supposed that all sizes were 1 million hit points - not that they scaled up.
The addition of some "backstory realism" in the form of , say, a limited-lifespan "VM-15" field would also benefit them (decompose after x days).
I'm not aware if they are permanent objects tbh - that could do with clearing up - (otherwise the cans will need to be)
Such cans are of great use to myself - nothing too do with mining though.
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eriq
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Posted - 2003.07.25 03:13:00 -
[27]
you're right, this is just a game and despite your childish attempts to recast my comments as something else it isn't piracy that bothers me, it's the mindset of some that everything in this game is to be manipulated for the express purpose of screwing someone else.
geez
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Shollos
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Posted - 2003.07.25 03:34:00 -
[28]
ccp has struck another blow for carebears everywhere..
CAREBEARS UNITE!!
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Ivanav Soulsteal
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Posted - 2003.07.25 04:19:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ivanav Soulsteal on 25/07/2003 04:21:37
ok.. ppl think back to the days of the early west (usa) where the trains were constanly being held up by train robbers.
The solution, they started putting everything in safes.
Now, if the robbers did manage to get the safe out of the train, they could not just open it.
The more daft robbers tried TNT which usally resulted in the destruction of the contents of the safe.
The best way to rob the trains was to open the safe buy stealing/buying or safe*****ing the combinations.
The current secure containers are modern day versions of these safes.
Those that want to be able to destroy them I say go for it, let all the contents be destroyed just like any container that is shot.
For the rest of you, well you just stole a wells fargo safe best start looking for a combination or a good locksmith. 
I'm sure the first train robbers that ran across the safes in on the trains were as put out as you ppl are.
This reminds me of a movie I saw. The train robbers stole the safe out of the train in the beginning of the movie.
The next 2 hours were them bungling there way tring to open it getting in all kinds of funny situations.
In the end they finly open the safe to find.....
A bill from the safe make to the train company for the safe.
OH.. as to their lifetime.. The one in cri has been out 3 days.
And so it begins.... |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.25 04:48:00 -
[30]
 Quote:
For the rest of you, well you just stole a wells fargo safe best start looking for a combination or a good locksmith
Not valid, I'm afraid. There is no current way to ***** the safe.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.25 05:09:00 -
[31]
**** man, give me Dynamite and I'll ***** any safe you have.
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
Sandwan
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Posted - 2003.07.25 05:10:00 -
[32]
I agree that secure containers should not be teh invincible - thats just crazy. Gives corps a way to easy and safe as hell way to transport important stuff, and takes allot of the danger out of moving those valuable items. Who needs an escort anymore? Just stick important item in a secure container and if pirates get you... well they have to sleep eventually don't they?
These containers also aren't the answer to miner's trouble with ore theft. For miners some kind of deployable secure container that functions like a jetisioned container in cargo abilities would be swell. CCP could make it so you would not be able to pick the container up again once deployed unless emptied of all contents and "repackaged".
--
Infinin00b 17th Light infantry Brigade
- Electronic Warfare Specialist -
You could say I'm good at jamming the bizatches... but you'd be wrong |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.25 07:05:00 -
[33]
Wtg CCP.
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Setec
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Posted - 2003.07.25 07:13:00 -
[34]
Sounds like secure cans are basically an exploit. :-/
It should not be possible to use them for preventing people from getting stuff after they blow you up, period, end of story.
They're supposed to be for thwarting ore thieves.
Expect all traders to now be trading with secure cargo containers, and expect all blueprints to be traded in cargo containers...
That's not just a balance issue, that's a downright exploit. It's cheating.
___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.25 07:15:00 -
[35]
I wonder what will happen when someone warps to a gate and the warp in point is not full with mines, but this new shiny large secure containers.
Full stop?
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.25 07:36:00 -
[36]
Then they'll just accuse PIrates of exploiting.
Got anymore easy questions Molly?
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
Harkan Ramientes
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Posted - 2003.07.25 10:03:00 -
[37]
hmm the idea of implementing an "hacking" or "picklock" skill in order to pop up open secure containers wouldn't be that bad.
this would offer traders a more secure ways (provided the above mentioned skill is well balanced) to fend off small time pirates while allowing more dedicated pirates ways to get their loot, this could be implemented as a factory slot options or such, adding more depth to pirate career.
CCP could also consider the idea of reducing secure cargo hit points adding a chance to have their content partially destroyed if the cargo is openend through brute force
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.07.25 10:57:00 -
[38]
Just a thought -
Has anyone actually confirmed that you can carry stuff in a container while it is inside your ship? AFAIK, that wasn't how they were meant, and it might very well be impossible (or should be).
People often rant and rave about things they haven't actually tried out on these forums, is why I'm asking...
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Nutter
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Posted - 2003.07.25 11:20:00 -
[39]
Well said the Reverend. Hits the nail absolutely on the head. CCP, in their infinate wisdom and attempts to appease the carebear community have gone too far and making things totally unrealistic.
Ive always thought the fact that you cannot destroy sentry guns has always been stupid, but now cargo cans! OMFG.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2003.07.25 11:37:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ulendar on 25/07/2003 11:42:03
Oh please...
Look...here is my 2cnts on this...
Jerks caused this!
There is noone to blaim here but the jerks that started this wich ultimitly resulted in some uber container..
I'm not talking about pirates. I'm talking about the jerks going around and blowing up containers of miners. You may not have noticed but there is NOTHING you can do about this and some people have publically stated to make it their new goal in life to blow up as many containers as possible and in the process destroy MILIONS worth in ore. The sayd it and did it!
So because these people have done this a FIX has been introduced. Ofc once again the fix is not the best one that could have been done...a better fix would have been to just make it an offensive action to attack a secure container instead of giving it 10m hp.
But all in all the blaim falls upon jerks once again, kerks out to destroy the game and because of it others have to suffer!
Others like pirates who try and make a living from looting traders and the likes because as mentioned they can now simply put it into a container before they blow up to pick it up later.
imho this has little to do with carebearing! The real carebears here are the people who went around in 1.0 space for weeks collecting other peoples containers and the guys just blowing up the containers for fun...where is the risk? There is none! Its just as bad as a genuine carebear and its bull**** to top it off...
Much like in real life the majority always soffer from the actions of a few jerks simple as that!
This thread hit a snare somewhere with me because its whine whine whine all over.
This time the downside turns towards pirates. Before these containers the downside was turned towards miners in high sec space...they had to put up with their cans being destroyed or stolen! Now the pirates have to put up with undestructable containers!
my point here is that EVERYONE eventually feels the pain these jerks cause. I don't know but maybe this will encourage some of you pirates out there to reason with the miners getting their stuff blown up for no reason instead of saying 'hahaha, dumb carebear!'. Don't get me wrong, im not pointing fingers or talking about pirates in general but i dare to say i saw some of you pirates encourage this back when miners got their containers blown up for no reason, no names, its the truth!
We all knew these actions were going to lead to some profound fix or punishment...now it has hapened and frankly it should be very vlear to everyone now who is to blaim because of this!
Remember when CONCORD turned into bad guys??
Why was this?
Simply because some griefers (not pirates) felt it nice to blow up defenceless people right in their own homesystems over and over again. This bullying, malicious and childish behavious led to an overrated fix that turned concord into ****es and almost made it impossible for pirates to do their thing and once again we see that the jerks are the cause of this!
Fixes do not ruin the game for everyone...jerks do. If you want to see this change then i suggest that everyone starts thinking before they say something and STOP encouraging these 'jerks'. I'm not gonna slap any names on this but i'm sure i saw some people here defend the positions of these 'jerks' because at that time the jerks were not causing any grief to them personally but to others in the community.
These things punish themselves and unfortunitly its always the people who had little or nothing to do with the jerkery that get to feel the pain of it...
Alot of the fixes for this game reside in the general attitude of the players.
rant out!
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Oosel
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Posted - 2003.07.25 11:59:00 -
[41]
i fear i am going to regret saying this because at some point sooner or later im bound to lose a ship to pirates no matter how careful i am to stay well away from them but i feel it is unfair on them to now no longer be able to get at cans left from a kill. i thought the idea of the secure containers was to protest miners from ore thieves. its not unfair to those pirates who were using their alts to pop ore cans and steal ore from miners in belts and for those that did i can now have a good laugh at them
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Shock
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:09:00 -
[42]
And once again CCP shows their complete lack of insight while trying to balance the game against griefers by using sledgehammertactics.
Over and over CCP comes with some solutions that causes new problems. And some of these you could see coming miles ahead.
Ulander named some already, but how about completely ubernerfing the security bonus for killing pirates to prevent pc pirates to keep their sec levels high? Why couldn't CCP fix this so the sec bonus nerf depends on how long ago your latest illegal podkill was?
---
soonÖ |
Kalroth
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:12:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Kalroth on 25/07/2003 12:14:55
I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but here it goes anyways.
Keep containers as they are, but make the following changes.
1) Reduce container hitpoints to roughly 2000.
2) Make the player, who jettisoned/dropped them, the owner of them.
3) Make CONCORD react on any hostile actions towards them (just like a drone). Only in empire space, of course.
That way they'll be useful for miners and they won't be a (big) problem for pirates. They'll of course suffer a faction hit for destroying them, but I don't think that's much of a problem.
Wouldn't this solve most issues around secure containers. Apart from miners (always) wanting more space ;-)
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:16:00 -
[44]
Maarek wrote:
How pitiful are you to take anything about a game as seriously as real life (other than RL threats made in game of course).
-----------
You gotta be american.
Are you looking behind every bush to see if nerds in jedirobes that threatened you in EVE are ready to fry you with their lightswords?
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:29:00 -
[45]
I don't want anyone to say, m0o is planting containers at the gate. We cannot, blow them up, nor loot them, talk to the people that died before you and left thier secure container floating in space.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:49:00 -
[46]
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 25/07/2003 12:49:11
Can you ram these secure cans, or do you bounce off them like drifting casks/flotsam?
I'm at work, or I'd have checked myself.
.
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Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:09:00 -
[47]
Excuse me Prope? If I gotta be American, you gotta be Ignorant. Probably one from one of those weird socalist countries to boot.
Stick to the issues Einstein. The person I replied to made an OOC attack against Pirates, and I responded in kind.
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
Krait
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:11:00 -
[48]
Imho, this is another flawed response by CCP. With good intent and poor application, we will not see any fix anytime soon.
The cans, if nearly invulnerable, should have been small and expensive for narrow application of hauling precious cargo. Another can for mining, large, vulnerable and securable would have been preferrable.
As it is, we have another example of the developers listening to the players complaints, but not to their suggestions. If you read between the lines of the most recent DevChat, I think more of this is on the way.
Still reminds me of EQ until VI got rid of all the original "vision" developers and replaced them with people that could listen to their customer base.
...donning nomex.
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...been there, done that |
Ulendar
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:42:00 -
[49]
Id have to agree that once again the developers did not opt for the best solution...
This is alike the concord matter, they apply a fix that is totally out there to then later come back on their steps...
This is alike the weaponerfs...they nerfed projectiles and lasers just a tad to much so now the both are inferior to hybred...sure you can get the same results but with tons of boostermodules and preferably looted weapons like modulated beams and scout projectiles...
ITS TO MUCH...again it is!
I sayd this before and il say it again..
The developers spend tomuch time listening to people whine on these forums...
They should always opt for a slight modification and not a total redo...these total redos have the tendancy to blow up in their faces..
Now we see it again. CCP tries to do something the comunity asked for, they put it in the game and behold...complaint and whining.why? Because it simply has tomuch from one side and not enough from the other..
They are trying to balance this game right? Then they should know that creating balance doesnt happen when you go from one extreem to the other...personally i think Pann listents tomuch to whiners who just want everything their way..
It hapened when all the carebears cried for protection in empire space, now its hapening again because people are crying for secure containers...
THESE SLEDGEHAMMER SOLUTIONS LEAD TO EXPLOITS PEOPLE! GET IT STRAIGHT!
there are alot of people on these forums with good and BALANCED ideas. It seems to me that these people fail to get there ideas through to the developers because unlike the whiners they dont crace their posts, wich they naturally post in every forum on this board, with milions of exclamationmarks and flamings along with a 'sub canceled' lame threat.
Honestly...
Fixes should be gentle implied in the game and not slapped on it. This leads people to confusion, frustration. It also generates distrust in the developer wich is a very very bad thing.
I can think of alot of better solutions to this wich would be better then this. Why this one was chosen above the better solutions is beyond me!
Furthermore i dont see why the polaris team could not make it their duty to 'tap' people on the fingers who are clearly abusing the system. With these i mean people who go around doing nothing but blowing up ore containers, people who (prior to concord ocupation) go to noob systems and pod everyone there just for the hell of it. These actions are clearly malicious and have no further intent then to undermine the gamemechanics. This should simply not be alowed end of story.
About the container exploit stuff...
Weve been over that enough havent we? Frankly i care little for this, if it generates lag well to bad, i dont care for what purpose m0o or whoever places these containers, there is a simple solution to this problem and that it to either avoid the gates OR use your head and warp to a prior saved bookmark wich drops you out of warp 150 km from the gate..
Whats so hard about that? Nothing! If containers lag then thats a problem...its the problem of the person warping to the gate in question! Not anyone elses, making these traps is a fair enough tactic, it DOES make it alot harder to target the person hiding in them...its a tactic that all that can be sayd. Wether its a dirty tactic or not i wont judge over...it works is all il say AND there is a way around it!
Whining about it will only make it worst so please drop the subject.
Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:48:00 -
[50]
I am under the impression that the devs are listening to the majority of the posts, even the ones that flame them.
Whether they have the time or resources to put these things in in such a short amount of time is another question entirely.
Luckily, I have my patience, so I'll be cool.
.
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2003.07.25 21:59:00 -
[51]
They could fix this with a single variable adjustment. 10 million billion to er... about 1000 HP.
This would take a dev less time than it takes him to sit down at a computer.
So Nike CCP!
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