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Litus Arowar
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Posted - 2005.09.03 02:10:00 -
[61]
if you're looking for precedent, look at heavy assault ships... you're required to train assault ships to level 4 before you can move on to HAC... though it doesn't require assault ship 5, it's still a different class, and an entirely different role, the only thing binding them is the fact that they're both high-resistence high-damage ship that rival T1 ships of a higher class...
personally I think that the system is fine as is, and that the complaints stem from people trying to do way too many things all at once... you shouldn't even be thinking about tech 2 large weapons unless you're ready to take the time to get there... wether this done in the way it's currently done, or by adding a new hard-to-train skill that allows specialization as j0 suggested is irrelevant... it will and should take a long time
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Atlquotl
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Posted - 2005.09.03 11:20:00 -
[62]
Last post about the heavy assaults etc is a valid point, although wasn't it kind of the other way around (assaults came after t2 weapons, precedent wise?) Anyway, Most of us are going to want to use the assault/heavies later on, if only just for fun and something new. Forcing the training while not enjoyable, will give us far more practice with our new ships, so that by the time we can use the high level equipment, we can use it well, and as a bonus we'll be able to use high level equipment for the assaults and heavies. I agree that it may have been a touch better if they'd only required level 4 instead of 5, but I fully intend on training everything I need to be able to use large t2 blasters one way or the other, and if it means being good at small/mediums for assaults, so much the better.
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madaluap
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Posted - 2005.09.03 13:24:00 -
[63]
tech 2 large guns arent for noobs, dont remove this link, its not more than normal. check out the skills you need for a normal bs sized gun, its lvl 3. so tech 2 needs lvl 5, dont see the problem.
also i want to fly a bs without having to train for frig or cruiser? thats just bad mmkay..but its exactly the same.
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Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.09.03 18:17:00 -
[64]
I disagree aswell. It 'appears' to me atleast that someone had it right with CCP hadn't intended specialisations to be size-type set, rather being soley type. It's good the way it is, get your T2 small guns, learn more about how to fight with the type of weapon while the ships/modules are still at their cheapest. Graduate to mediums, now you've got more firepower, more range, but more to lose. Once you've "mastered" the art of playing with the mediums, it's time for big boys toys... Could it be that those who are calling for a change to make large T2's availiable only want to be able to gate gank with a battleship without having to expend much effort? I'm only heading for medium hybrid spec now myself, but i'd still disagree with any change, it's currently the "logical" progression.
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Warm0nger
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Posted - 2005.09.04 11:34:00 -
[65]
I put my time in and trained for large specialization. Everyone who doesn't have the skill, get to the back of the line!!!
not signed
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Eve Spawn Grounds
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MEBHansen
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Posted - 2005.09.04 13:50:00 -
[66]
Not signed...
I reckon it¦s kind of like in the millitary.
I learned to use small guns first(9mm), before I learned how to use larger guns like 5.56mm and 7.62mm LMG. The AT4 being the large weapon i learned last. This is great, since large weapons are not allways the best choice, for any given mission...
Do I make sense, or is it sunday yet?
Or how about this comparrison..: You have to learn how to drive a truck, before you learn how to equip/use the trailor? No? okay, i give up... 
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Cilppiz
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Posted - 2005.09.04 14:29:00 -
[67]
It would take a 70 days to learn large t2 artys (med and large projectiles from 4 to 5 and sharpshootter to lvl5) but I dont nag about it, good things are worth of waiting and Ill just use mods I can use and dream about those 1400mm t2's. Its good to have skills that take ages to learn and also skills that you can read in day or week.
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.09.04 14:32:00 -
[68]
Yea right.. then remove all the links to fly a damned dreadnaught? Hey i don't want to train all the damned skills to 4/5 because i'm too good for it, get me the Dreadnought after 30 days of training so i can skip all the rest. Said the lazy ass who made the topic.
TRAIN YOUR SKILLS LIKE EVERYONE.
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.09.04 17:04:00 -
[69]
... NO.
Why don't we just give everyone lvl 5 in all skills with the next patch? 
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Slater Dogstar
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Posted - 2005.09.04 17:11:00 -
[70]
NO WAY
the origonal posters idea is bad because its like digging a well from the bottom uppwards....Makes no sence.
Every Time You Use A Warp Stab Ovyer Kills A Puppy!!! |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.09.04 19:35:00 -
[71]
 Originally by: j0sephine
"yeah i see where your coming from, but i doubt now ccp will change it after so long."
Aye, not really likely now ^^;;
was thinking about it some more, and i figure it'd perhaps work better if this particular skill tree went more like:
rather than medium specialization requiring the small spec, and large spec requiring the medium one, there's a 'generic' weapon-type related skill. Let's say it's called "Advanced <weapon type> theory" and it's high rank skill. then you can have specializations go like:
small hybrid turret 5 -> advanced bybrid theory 3 -> small specializations for railgun/blaster
medium hybrid turret 5 -> advanced hybrid theory 4 -> medium specializations for railgun/blaster
large hybrid turret 5 -> advanced hybrid theory 5 -> large specializations for railgun/blaster
... similar for other turret types. This way it'd still take significant amount of time to reach the tech.2 skills, but at the same time you could actually specialize in frigate/cruiser/battleship weapons separately...
oh well. --;;
Tech 3 better be this. Just to be annoying, the stuff is different and requires knowledge of different stuff. So say, to use a tech 3 railgun that uses armor piercing shells and deals 80% of the damage of tech 1 you need some science skills that represent an understanding of the physics of it. With tech 3 different corps can research different parts of the gun at their tower facilities. Say you get your 425mm blue print start researching some em effects - like say, 10% sensor dampening or something + the ammo doing something else - but you need sensor dampening 5 and electronics engineering 4 (is that what its called in game?) to use it or something like that. Would be rather nifty imho.
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Shai Faetal
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Posted - 2005.09.04 23:44:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Shai Faetal on 04/09/2005 23:45:04
Originally by: MacDuncan
Nooooo....just a few days left 'til T2 1400s....leave them alone....if i had to train them, all those others should train them as well... 
Believe me:
You'll need all those other specs as well...
what he said :D
hmm the thought of 3 month old players in tempest fitted wth t2 1400mm instapopping everyone just crossed my minds
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meh. go away |
Simon Danger
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Posted - 2005.09.05 00:25:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Litus Arowar
if you're looking for precedent, look at heavy assault ships... you're required to train assault ships to level 4 before you can move on to HAC... though it doesn't require assault ship 5, it's still a different class, and an entirely different role, the only thing binding them is the fact that they're both high-resistence high-damage ship that rival T1 ships of a higher class...
personally I think that the system is fine as is, and that the complaints stem from people trying to do way too many things all at once... you shouldn't even be thinking about tech 2 large weapons unless you're ready to take the time to get there... wether this done in the way it's currently done, or by adding a new hard-to-train skill that allows specialization as j0 suggested is irrelevant... it will and should take a long time
Since the Assault Ships skill doesn't require any frigate skills to train, this is more on a par with knowing your way around the smaller before taking on the higher (as in frigate 4 -> cruiser 1). The important thing about HACs is that they do NOT require Frigate 5 to fly, only Cruiser 5.
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pardux
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Posted - 2005.09.05 00:49:00 -
[74]
not signed.
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MrMorph
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Posted - 2005.09.05 22:25:00 -
[75]
Is this the office where I can sign up on the "OMFG I HAVE TO TRAIN SOMETHING B4 I CAN OWN!" group ?
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Sangxianc
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Posted - 2005.09.05 22:39:00 -
[76]
The problem I have with it is the same as Elve's. It means people who actually specialise in smaller ship classes suck. And I specialise in smaller ship classes!
I hate sucking :<
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Do not deny yourself experience of that which lies beyond, behind the sun, in the world they call unpeopled. |
Shalnar
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Posted - 2005.09.05 22:57:00 -
[77]
Not signed.
If this link is removed then you will see more and more players training all large guns to spec. That means you'll get more people flying around in apocs with tech2 projectiles. To me this isn't specializing. 'Racial' spec should always take priority over 'size' spec. If anything the missile specialization should be changed. I think it's silly that you can train cruise spec before having rapid launch at lvl5
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Sean Drake
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Posted - 2005.09.05 23:02:00 -
[78]
I hate to say this but this seems to be the 1000000th argument I have seen on here about new players catching up to the more experinced players. Except the fact that this is not WoW or eq2 you cannot grind your way to uber power and then move on suck it up and train the skills like the rest of us.
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Solar Sailor
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Posted - 2005.09.06 08:06:00 -
[79]
Originally by: KilROCK
Yea right.. then remove all the links to fly a damned dreadnaught? Hey i don't want to train all the damned skills to 4/5 because i'm too good for it, get me the Dreadnought after 30 days of training so i can skip all the rest. Said the lazy ass who made the topic.
TRAIN YOUR SKILLS LIKE EVERYONE.
Dread is tech 1 theres not even any comparison.
Keep the Tech 1 skills chain linked, but remove it for Tech 2 and beyond.
I am new so have decided to concentrate on frigates as it looks fast enough, and with decent skills I can compete with older players. If someone wants to concentrate on Medium/Large guns, they should not HAVE to learn Small/Medium Spec.
This will, at least, make my choice worth something 
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Flash Landsraad
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Posted - 2005.09.06 08:28:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
ccp want us to specialize right? so how come if i want to specialize in battleships i first have to specialize in frigates and crusiers before coming to battleship specilizaton? it doesnt make any sence really...
but then again ccp isnt known to make any sence at all!
No - just think about this and stop being ignorant.
You can't go straight to the larger ships - that would be stupid. You have to learn how to use smaller things before you can get on to learning the large things in any kind of situation.
What you just said is like saying - 'I just joined the Navy a few days ago and said I wanted to captain an aircraft carrier but they only put me as a regular crew mate - how stupid is that!?'
I think you need to think of what you are saying before you say it mate - not xKillaH.
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