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Eli Green
The Arrow Project
574
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
Quick Locking Tornado + warp in = problem solved wumbo |

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1177
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:With your proposal, yes.
What can you do to your proposal to fix that, or can you find a third option? Well, you're the one that has it figured all out. You tell me! Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |

Haulie Berry
304
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:RubyPorto wrote:With your proposal, yes.
What can you do to your proposal to fix that, or can you find a third option? Well, you're the one that has it figured all out. You tell me!
Pointing out that your solution is idiotic is not the same thing as claiming to have THE answer.
You had a bad idea. Move on, get over it. |

Onyx Nyx
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
310
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:ECM does not offer good counter play. See this video for understanding what counter play is.
Hmm.. While I do enjoy the tears that ECM bring, I found that video really interesting and one idea that came to me was to counter-hack the, let's say, Blackbird and if the hack is successful, that Blackbird would randomly start jamming someone else.
I apologize if I can't flesh out the idea into something more coherent but that is the gist of it so far. I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
901
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
this is my idea for ecm:
Quote:i came up with this nifty idea where ecm no longer breaks the lock of a ship but actually helps in determining the quality of a hit!
usually the chance to hit number is rated against x which is a random number generated between 0.001 to 1.0 which determind if a. the shot hits and b. how much damage the shot will do.
so the better your ships sensor strength the less damage is done to you and i fyou have enough ecm on you your sensor strenth goes down to 0 where shots can start doing wreking damage more often and less slightly hit..
it would take alot of work but i feel it would make ecm a balanced and not op game mechanic Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |

Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
655
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
ECM is fine the way it is. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |

Zindale
Spias Inc. SPIAS LIKE US
13
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
I have said this once already today in another post about ECM, but here goes again.
to fix ECM CCP remove the chance base and goes back to the old method of using the attributes to calculate the jamming strength.
Second CCP modify both ECM and ECCM so they work as they should.
This way a ship that has ECCM fitted has a better chance of not getting jammed and a non ECM specialist ship can not jam a ship with a greater base sensor strength than the one jamming. This would bring ECM in line with all the other EWAR modules. Then the only winges that should bo the forums about ECM would those pilots to stubborn to fit ECCM to there superpwn ship cause they don't want to loose DPS.
Yes no numbers quoted then that no argument over semantics that will be for CCP's dev. to sort out |

Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
656
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zindale wrote:I have said this once already today in another post about ECM, but here goes again.
to fix ECM CCP remove the chance base and goes back to the old method of using the attributes to calculate the jamming strength.
Second CCP modify both ECM and ECCM so they work as they should.
This way a ship that has ECCM fitted has a better chance of not getting jammed and a non ECM specialist ship can not jam a ship with a greater base sensor strength than the one jamming. This would bring ECM in line with all the other EWAR modules. Then the only winges that should bo the forums about ECM would those pilots to stubborn to fit ECCM to there superpwn ship cause they don't want to loose DPS.
Yes no numbers quoted then that no argument over semantics that will be for CCP's dev. to sort out
So in your mind a good fix would be to make perma-jamming an absolute certainty instead of chance based as it is now...
0/10
There are already several good counters to ECM. The only thing that could do with a tweak is the range bonus that specialized ecm ships get. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |

Warpshade
Warped Industries
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
The way the ECM mechanic works (Completely stopping a ship from targeting) is a vey potent mechanic that sticks heavily in the mind of a victims experience. If ECM is currently balanced or in need of changes I'm not sure. However the biggest problem I do forsee; is that if ECM is balanced or even becomes underpowered, a victim in the future that experiences a loss where ECM was used, can emotionally be more likely to attribute the loss specifically to ECM because of its potent emotional result of not being able to fight back, and will still cry foul!
I really do fear that the mechanic could be nerfed or pursued to the point where it becomes rendered useless.
P.s I know this really doesn't add anything to the debate or provide a solution, just more added sperg, and i've probably commited a few fallacies in my statement aswel? I'm not trying to say arguments against the mechanic are emotional rather than rational. I'm just trying to convey that (i feel) the mechanic of ECM is more emotionally charged than any other experience related to mechanics in Eve because you don't feel like you can fight back, maybe with the exception of being insta blapped. Although I feel since insta blapping is typically an instant experience, it can cause less frustration comparatively because ECM usually happens in a somewhat prolonged engagment.
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
107
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:ECM: Best way to disrupt logistics. take ECM out of the game and you'll have people crying how OP logistics are. I would say: fix drone interface, increase either drone bay size or drone durability and let's continue shooting Blackbirds with our drones  ... or make F.O.F.s home in on ships using ECM modules. Now that would be fun  .
Lol. You're stupid. Drones don't have the same range as a Blackbird.
- Yes, I know Jill. But if you can't get a fleet member, preferably a small fast ship next to the Blackbird to get a warp-in, you're doing it wrong.
Jill. EVE Racing (resuscitation efforts ongoing) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=215860&find=unread |

Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
251
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
ECM as it currently works is a horrible game play mechanic as if you get jammed, you can't do anything about it, and as others have pointed out, your gameplay suddenly stops.
With the other EW, damps are powerful but are defeated by closing the distance (fwiw, damps are FAR to powerful as a gameplay mechanic considering they murder your lock times as well, they'd be just a useful if they only lowered lock range).
TD's are situational as missile users aren't currently affected and you have a valid gameplay mechanic to counter with as you can do some manual piloting to negate the effects of the lowered tracking if you're using guns.
Both of those have gameplay options to use to counter, ECM does not.
That all said, there was a really good suggestion in F&I the other day (I know I know), whereby ECM should be changed so that it simply jams you from targetting OTHER ships, but leaves you free to target the ship doing the jamming. That could be a very very interesting mechanic. |

Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Homowners
56
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 18:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Posting in an awesome stealth "remove all EWAR from the game - lets start with ECM" thread.
So far, three pages of why flying a paper thin Blackbird is so fun, even after it goes boom. |

Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
228
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 18:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Posting in an awesome stealth "remove all EWAR from the game - lets start with ECM" thread.
So far, three pages of why flying a paper thin Blackbird is so fun, even after it goes boom.
You forgot "moves like a brick, paper thin, BB" I hate flying those things. Props to anyone who sticks it out.
What do you call a Goon gardener?
-á-á =========================================================A lawn gnoon+++++++++++++++++++++++++ |

Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
228
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 18:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Buzzmong wrote:ECM as it currently works is a horrible game play mechanic as if you get jammed, you can't do anything about it, and as others have pointed out, your gameplay suddenly stops.
With the other EW, damps are powerful but are defeated by closing the distance (fwiw, damps are FAR to powerful as a gameplay mechanic considering they murder your lock times as well, they'd be just a useful if they only lowered lock range).
TD's are situational as missile users aren't currently affected and you have a valid gameplay mechanic to counter with as you can do some manual piloting to negate the effects of the lowered tracking if you're using guns.
Both of those have gameplay options to use to counter, ECM does not.
That all said, there was a really good suggestion in F&I the other day (I know I know), whereby ECM should be changed so that it simply jams you from targetting OTHER ships, but leaves you free to target the ship doing the jamming. That could be a very very interesting mechanic.
Isn't there a whole category of modules that boosts your sensor strength? You activate them and your sensor strength goes way up making you very difficult to jam. that always seemed like a pretty good counter.
What do you call a Goon gardener?
-á-á =========================================================A lawn gnoon+++++++++++++++++++++++++ |

Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Homowners
57
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 18:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Posting in an awesome stealth "remove all EWAR from the game - lets start with ECM" thread.
So far, three pages of why flying a paper thin Blackbird is so fun, even after it goes boom. You forgot "moves like a brick, paper thin, BB" I hate flying those things. Props to anyone who sticks it out.
True that. And I guess I stick it out for the slight tears it extracts (barely a reason), because it keeps me engaged (bouncing in and out of the fight to stay alive is a little more engaging that popping primaries or chasing kiters) but mostly because it really is a good counter to enemy logistics, and somebody's gotta do it :P
My heart is in flying logistics ships though, whenever possible. So I'm using seeing the ECM from the wrong side more often than not. Waaaaaiiiiit a minute . . . . NERF ECM! |

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
107
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 18:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Buzzmong wrote:ECM as it currently works is a horrible game play mechanic as if you get jammed, you can't do anything about it, and as others have pointed out, your gameplay suddenly stops.
If you get alpha'ed, your game-play stops aswell AND you lose a ship. I prefer getting jammed 
But seriously: There are so many "unfair" fight situations, that picking out ECM as THE culprit is simply unfair (I had to go there).
- getting hotdropped sux - alt logistic support sux - off-grid boosters suxors
You can defend yourself against ecm boats, as has been stated already: - snipe them before they even get a lock. - use eccm modules and drones on aggressive setting to keep some damage output going while jammed - bring your own ecm boats to balance the fight - use sensor damps on the ecm boats to force them to come closer or to disable them if they prefer to stay at 200km range 
Jill.
EVE Racing (resuscitation efforts ongoing) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=215860&find=unread |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3076
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 19:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:RubyPorto wrote:With your proposal, yes.
What can you do to your proposal to fix that, or can you find a third option? Well, you're the one that has it figured all out. You tell me!
It's balanced as is (possibly a bit overnerfed with the recent nerfs that it received). Most situations where people complain about ECM are situations where another ship would alter the result of the engagement in the same way. Some situations it alters the result more than other ships would, and some it alters the result less than other ships would (A Rapier would be better for preventing someone from crashing a gate than a Falcon, for example).
As for whether it's a fun game mechanic, I don't get bothered much by it when I'm on the receiving side, I just set myself up for the next time I'm able to lock things again, and I happen to enjoy flying ECM boats when the occasion warrants. But other people seem to be really angry about it (though some people get mad about anything they feel was "unfair" or that "made them lose" without considering whether or not it made them lose any more or less than another mechanic would have), so I can't answer whether it's fun for everybody. I do find it interesting that the people complaining the loudest about ECM and the "fact" of its "omnipresence" angrily refuse do anything to counter it, like fitting ECCM, indicating that it is not the widespread "problem" they make it out to be.
Incidentally, I can see no situation where your mechanic would be a more "fun" one than the current one. Either the target is going to be perma-jammed or the Falcon will do the math and won't uncloak. Either way, one player isn't participating in the fight at all. Currently, the Falcon is going to uncloak, and the target may well still get to attack despite the incoming jam attempts. 1 + some positive % of 1 > 1, so the current mechanic results in more people participating in a fight than yours would. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |

Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
712
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:09:00 -
[48] - Quote
As a Caldari, I feel that ECM is well balanced and working as intended. |

Galan Amarias
Kantian Principle
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:the entire issue with jamming is it's based on an RNG system, which isn't fun for any one. even more so when the RNG is basically a coin flip saying "do you get a chance to play?"
then again, short of removing it i'm not sure that there's much that can be done with ECM.
You know what ship explosions prevent the person whose ship blew up from playing, that's not fun, it removes one person from the game. All weapons should be replaced with snowball launchers and harsh language.
Seriously, I'm simultaniously gratified and horrified that after 7 years in and out of EVE people are _still_ whining about ECM. |
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