What is it with you and ninja mining? There is a mining frig thing, use it. I get getting into people's space and messing with them, but what the stuff, mining? Then what run it all the way back to high sec?

I don't think that the "Resource Redistribution" mentioned for Odyssey is completely designed to promote exploration. I do have some ideas on what it could involve.

Moon Mining

I think that the real intent for this change are the Tech moons, which I don't believe is an issue but rather a strategic monopoly. For Resource Redistribution of moon mining, I think the worst change (for players) is to add a max quantity available in each moon. Each DT, all moon goo types that were depleted the previous day are redistributed amongst all mine-able moons. This would require corporations to scout out new supplies of moon goo every time they deplete a moon. This could make the most valuable moons worthless overnight, and worthless moons valuable.

3. Most small entities would not want a Tech moon popping up under their POS. They know it will get taken from them by a bigger entity well before the Tech output covers the value of the POS (if they even notice).

I can't believe you are actually excited about sneaking into someones space and mining. It would be like breaking into a house and stealing a bic pen out of their desk doing your taxes with their pen then giving yourself a hug about it.

I can't believe you are actually excited about sneaking into someones space and mining. It would be like breaking into a house and stealing a bic pen out of their desk then giving yourself a hug about it.

Now listen carefully, Grasshopper: swarms come in all sorts of variety. There's your type of swarm of kids without a clue. There's swarms that fight like killer bees; and there's swarms of blowflies that lay eggs and eat their hosts inside out.

Ninja mining is the latter.

Blob meet the ultimate blob eater.

I. This could make the most valuable moons worthless overnight, and worthless moons valuable.

~265,000 mineable moons* in EVE.

Yes, steal from the unlimited font of ore available from Industry sites. That'll show them.

By the way, a more effective way to harass people in Nullsec would be to sneak in and take assets from them that have... well... actual value. Like ratting ships.

Take all you want, the real valuable stuff are in the sites and good luck getting in to those without being instagibbed on warpin.

I'm talking about all out resource warfare.

One little parasite at a time about 10000001x a day.

Nibbling on ore by one swarm. Moon goo swarm on another. Exploration swarm on gas harvests.

There's no Orkin in space and three things that will always survive: roaches, ants and flies.

You can get rats anywhere, but moon goo/ABC ore/choice gas clouds are in null.

You know that as well.

If you can get your sister corps to mine the high-sec ore wholesale, well enterprising indys can launch their own...swarms.

And as you can personally understand, it adds up quick.

I used to argue with the WoW devs about their philosophy of switching comfort zones regularly, but I can truly see it's value in EvE.

This is the problem: you think XYZ is what indys just all want. If you're a ship builder you need mats that doesn't exist in high-sec (or even low-sec). High volume producers just buy the mats, but those who are being more self-sufficient and isk conscious, need small batches for their own supply.

And there's many more of them than high volume producers.

Each DT, all moon goo types that were depleted the previous day are redistributed amongst all mine-able moons

This would be like hiding your level 4 agent amongst all possible station locations and telling you to LOL go find it after each DT

The problem EvE has is an old mindset of mat distribution.

I don't like mats in one area with NPCs spawning around to harass you. It's so scripted. The PvP element is also so scripted.

What's fun is having opportunities to ninja mine, though. Best mining experience I had isn't in some gang, it's sneaking into null and getting the mats and getting them back (oh, yeah I'm getting max refining, ABC ores are too bulky to bring back in some crushed can Venture).

Would rather have an interceptor like mining vessel that can ninja mine and swifty (mining yield at 100% with a 5000m3 hold deal). This can shake up those nullbears armed to the teeth, thinking they're immuned to invaders at their door -- and redistribute the resources among anyone willing to take the risks. And boy is it fun mining like that, and giving those guys the finger in the process.

I can't believe you are actually excited about sneaking into someones space and mining. It would be like breaking into a house and stealing a bic pen out of their desk then giving yourself a hug about it.

You seem to have some wrong assumptions about the value of mining Technetium. A Tech pos makes 7.2 million ISK per hour. A Mack mining Veldspar in empire makes about 10M/hr last I checked.

You seem to have some wrong assumptions about the value of mining Technetium. A Tech pos makes 7.2 million ISK per hour. A Mack mining Veldspar in empire makes about 10M/hr last I checked.

And that MACK cannot make it 24x7 unlike the POS, at most 23.5x7; if it tried CCP would be flagging it as a probable BOT

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Technetium

Malcanis, how independent are you again?

100 units per hour. 24 hours a day. Look up market price for yourself and do the math.

Scroll down and read some...ah...history.

And that MACK cannot make it 24x7 unlike the POS, at most 23.5x7; if it tried CCP would be flagging it as a probable BOT

I think that the real intent for this change are the Tech moons, which I don't believe is an issue but rather a strategic monopoly. For Resource Redistribution of moon mining, I think the worst change (for players) is to add a max quantity available in each moon. Each DT, all moon goo types that were depleted the previous day are redistributed amongst all mine-able moons. This would require corporations to scout out new supplies of moon goo every time they deplete a moon. This could make the most valuable moons worthless overnight, and worthless moons valuable.

What is 75,000 ISK/unit times 100 Units?

Is it:
a) 7.5 million ISK
or
b) some other number?

Would rather have an interceptor like mining vessel that can ninja mine and swifty (mining yield at 100% with a 5000m3 hold deal). This can shake up those nullbears armed to the teeth, thinking they're immuned to invaders at their door -- and redistribute the resources among anyone willing to take the risks. And boy is it fun mining like that, and giving those guys the finger in the process.

CCP has already said they do not like passive incomes, so sorry but don't expect the tech moon gravy train to be going on forever.

I can't believe you are actually excited about sneaking into someones space and mining. It would be like breaking into a house and stealing a bic pen out of their desk then giving yourself a hug about it.

That mechanic would, in case you're wondering, be "moon mineral depletion", regardless of the timeframe of said depletion.

How exactly would that cause you to commit suicide? You seem to take moon mining far too seriously.

I dont see how moon minerals depleting over a month, or even a few months, would be a bad thing at all. And you have failed to explain why in your previous posts too.

Scan a region. Now scan a region again. And again. And again. Then move POSes and/or setup reactions again. And again. And again.

Then wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just biomass your character and play a game which sucks less.

Also notice what happened to the largest Tech holding Bloc in the game in your "historical link".

Goonswarm and Goonswarm affiliates (Goonswarm awarding Tech moons to alliances as an incentive for performance). Under the fiscal control of these new, more market savvy owners, Technetium drove higher prices than ever.

After the combined forces of OTEC (CFC, Pandemic Legion and NCDOT) collectively repelled a strike into PL Tech holdings by Against ALL Authorities and assorted southern forces with relative ease, it was decided that Hulkageddon (an event centered around the suicide ganking of Hulks) would go from a prize-based annual event organized by an assortment of suicide gank-loving volunteers to a permanent state of affairs with salaried rewards sorted by programs parsing through automatically generated killmail data. The motives for this were twofold: 1) the heavy amount of Technetium needed to build Hulks meant increased Hulk 'turnover' would send Tech prices through the roof and 2) the sheer infamy from doing such a thing.

By making the act of sucide ganking mining ships directly profitable with no coordination needed, Highsec space became an open hunting ground as hundreds of unaffiliated highsec pirates roamed the belts and jumpgates in disposable, high-damage ships looking for any mining vessel to put in their crosshairs. 'Hulkageddon Infinity', funded by Technetium profits, was by far the largest and most devastating event of its kind in New Eden history, as galactic mineral output as a whole took a massive drop as miners were simply too scared to mine.

In YC 113, in response to-increasing demand for Technetium-based products, manufacturers began mass producing starbase nuclear fusion reactors capable of synthesizing Technetium out of large amounts of Cobalt and Platinum. Normally ORE listened to loud demands of miners and answered by heavily revamping their line of mining ships, including the Procurer, Retriever, Skiff and Mackinaw to the effect of greatly increasing their durability. Just some of countless changes made to New Eden as a result of a once cheap and valueless element.

Who said it would?

And even if they don't remove moonmining, replacing it with a ****-poor excuse for a mechanic which causes people to commit in-game suicide due to burnout isn't the answer. That mechanic would, in case you're wondering, be "moon mineral depletion", regardless of the timeframe of said depletion.

You would have a few months gap in between so it wouldn't constant. Maybe even go for a year gap. The whole idea would be that the same null sec alliances wouldn't constantly have the monopoly on the tech moons. They would actually have to work to find the moons now and again, making it possible for small alliances to capture them too.

Perhaps you could have different variations of moons also. So you could have pretty static ones which will hold their resources for a year plus before they are depleted. Obviously these would be held by the big null sec alliances and would be fought over hard. Then you could have moons which begin to deplete over a month or two and then respawn somewhere else more suitable for the smaller alliances and those larger ones which choose to actively seek them out.

That would even create a new profession ^ Moon scanning. I'm sure players would pay handsomely for the location of a valuable moon.

The Goons deserve every suspicion of causing more trouble, and a break up just as thorough as BoB suffered.

And because after all, a hi-sec agent can produce vastly more wealth than a tech moon, I suggest that the mission cap be set proportionately low. Does 6 sound about right? Maybe 10, although i'm worried that allowing so much wealth to be produced from an invulnerable resource is too generous.

There is a big difference between mission running and moon mining. For one moon mining is a passive income once set up which runs 24 hours a day...

Oh, right, resource scarcity. I'm sure that'll make things so much better!

on the other side of the universe[/i].

We already have that. It still sucks, it still doesn't take care of the people who are doing reactions, and it still doesn't solve anything except maybe the problem of "how can we make moongoo even harder to get for my production line".

Nope, because the resource distribution would gradual as I said, ie a planet would not suddenly go from having no resources to being a tech moon in one downtime.

Oh, so we would have to scan the same moon multiple times during its current goo-cycle, to see what was going up and what was going down? Excellent, that'll make things so much better.

How many moons are there in <0.4 again?

You still have to set up a POS, manage it and collect your moongoo. it's not quite as passive as R&D agents for instance.

R&D agents can't be reinforced by hostiles either. Reffed moonpos produce nothing.

Still, you make a valid point. Let's raise the cap to 12.

The way I envisage it would be that moons would have a feature similar to that of wormhole. Ie once you have scanned them down then you can get an update by simply clicking show info. But these are really minor details that CCP could easily iron out.

They don't have to change moon mineral location, but simply add alternative reactions/bpo for certain components that will do the same thing.
For example to all things that require technetium to make - create alternative reaction that will require something as common as vandanium.

Oh, so we would have to scan the same moon multiple times during its current goo-cycle, to see what was going up and what was going down? Excellent, that'll make things so much better.

How many moons are there in <0.4 again?

I'm not against a cap on missions. I think moving level 4s down into low sec would solve most of the issues with mission running though.

So we're going to scan a few hundred thousand moons every x months to a year, and everyone doing reaction has to move their POS around as the mineral moves around, and no matter how much you handwave it away, it will cause a higher resource scarcity than we're seeing already, with the ensuing high prices. Only it won't just be for things like tech, it'll be for everything down to and including the least valuable moongoo there is.

Of course we'll also have to remove the agent finder, because forcing people to check every NPC station in empire to find where the agent they have standings with has gone to is just good gameplay.

It's only a shame that there aren't even more empire stations, because only having a few thousand to work through is pretty small beer compared to the 160k+ moons that moon miners would get to check, but I suppose there ought to be some advantages to being in 0.0.

VFK is => thaddaway. Bring your hisec pubbies and do what needs to be done.

Again, your narrow mindedly focusing on a individual point which can easily be fixed. You know if one high value moon makes 2x the resource as the currently highest value moon there is right now, then one high value moon = two current moon and resources are the same. :)

So these things can obviousluy be easily be balanced out

Again, your narrow mindedly focusing on a individual point which can easily be fixed. You know if one high value moon makes 2x the resource as the currently highest value moon there is right now, then one high value moon = two current moon and resources are the same. :)

my idea is that all moon minerals are removed and replaced with a single mineral, slurrytium, which balances moons perfectly

For example to all things that require technetium to make - create alternative reaction that will require something as common as vandanium.

And what would the impact be on reactions? Keep in mind that currently one moonminer spits out 100 units per hour, and that's exactly the number which is consumed per cycle during reactions.

You still have to set up a POS, manage it and collect your moongoo. it's not quite as passive as R&D agents for instance.

Or remove Technetium from the materials needed all together.

When a product is used to the point of disrupting a game to the ships have to be redesigned due to it (as it disrupted the very material market), that would've been a much easier solution.

There's w-a-y too many comfort zones here, when markets to minerals are never steady.

It's still passive COLLECTION. Just like research points with R+D agents.

Exactly the same.

You're not there like a miner mining it.

And managing a POS isn't like grinding the standings to get a level 4 agent, too. Managing a POS is adding fuel once a week; any blueprints (which can be done at a corp office); maybe defending it if attacked. Moon goo is essentially harvested passively (100 units) per harvester; and automatically stored in its silo; where its fed into whatever reactor or other processing source. Players aren't standing there to do any of that stuff 24/7. At most it's switching blueprints; diverting any of that moon goo to switch the blueprint; and onlining it again (but that's not happening with the Tech, it's set to be a 24/7 passively collected and made product).

When folks say it's a passive income, it is. I wish I could automatically mine and refine.

A possible solution to the scanning logistics is the introduction of a system scan; either through POS module, Sov Upgrade, or onboard scanner, that allows you to scan the whole systems moons in one shot. The result would be a total quantity of each type of goo available in the system, maybe even going as far as to say which planet the resource orbits (i.e. Planet V has a Tech moon)

Would rather have an interceptor like mining vessel that can ninja mine and swifty (mining yield at 100% with a 5000m3 hold deal). This can shake up those nullbears armed to the teeth, thinking they're immuned to invaders at their door -- and redistribute the resources among anyone willing to take the risks. And boy is it fun mining like that, and giving those guys the finger in the process.

FYP.

Kind of like how suicide ganking is like shooting an old lady in the street and robbing her purse then?

You're very selective in reading...

umm, b?

You seem to have some wrong assumptions about the value of mining Technetium. A Tech pos makes 7.2 million ISK per hour. A Mack mining Veldspar in empire makes about 10M/hr last I checked.

You seem to have no understanding of the actual events that that mediocre summary claims to represent.

So you're saying to the world Evelopedia is lying? EvE has it on it's link bar, so would believe it's official even.

So official site and history, and you're claiming it's all lies?

/popcorn

It's written by volunteers

Read

You are forgetting the many hours sat at the machine playing 0.01 games with the bots to make your reaction profit effective.
You are forgetting the many hours of hauling material to your system through many danagerous unknowns
You are forgetting the many hours of waiting for fuel to be created so you can move it to your poses (which can take a long time)
You are forgetting all of the decisions being made as to how to move products
The many conversations you have to create understanding with people so you can move safely through space
Come to think that in a pos there can be as little as 400m+ on show to everyone at all time
Null sec is a completely different agenda since there are intel channels and there is back up and you are a target but not all POS moon mining / reacting is as easy as sticking it on a moon and waiting to get paid.

Whilst the act of moon mining can be seen to be passive the actual maintenance and management that can take hours up to days to complete makes this just as much an active source of income and passive. But so to are all other forms of making isk.

You got the answer right!
POS fuel alone will knock it down to just over 7. Then there are transportation costs, sov bills and whatnot i can't be bothered to try to calculate.

Here's something I am willing to take a stab at though.

So a single mack has to spend just over 17 hours per day mining to match the income. What does it take for the moon to match the effort in man hours?

A 500 man 2-hour CTA will have an opportunity cost of 1,000 man hours. This means that if the moon is threatened at a rate of once every 58 days causing such a CTA, the income and effort will match that of shooting rocks in high sec (plus the effort of running the POS, moving the stuff, selling it etc). Assuming the defense fleet has no losses that is. If it does, you make less and increase the effort by having to rebuild/haul something. At that point, you might as well go mine veld in high as a "corp op".

Doubling the size of the fleet, means having to show up and defend it at a rate of once every 4 months for two hours to break even.

Another comparison:
I have three characters (just one account worth) doing PI. I passively make 2.75 mil an hour "for free with no effort". And I only have the relevant skills to level 4 on all three characters. I would venture the management effort and logistics are comparable. Three accounts would surpass the moon income. Two with perfect skills and a more efficient setup, than what I can be bothered to maintain. The system I am in can probably support up to 8-10 accounts doing so, or ~4 Tech moons worth. I would also wager the number of systems like this far exceeds 500.

We're talking about moon income in the neighborhood of 5.4 bil a month on an alliance level. My tiny insignificant corp makes half that just off the PI taxes.


So how's about an easier way to balance something like this? Good moons, bad planets. Good plantes, bad moons. Suddenly you have relatively balanced resource potential region to region, without something as ludicrous as the suggestion in the OP. Is it a conflict driver? That depends. Do you want to haul in POS fuel? Or take some systems with bad moons, but fuel producing planets? Or maybe a trade deal with your neighbor is in order?

You know, I like how people keep trying to treat moongoo differently from PI extraction, manufacturing, copying and invention, considering all of them are mostly AFK activities.

Moongoo requires a POS, fuel, emptying of silos (or in the case of direct reaction, topping up of input silos and emptying of full output silos), and a defense fleet (where ships die) if it's a valuable moon. PI requires you press a button every 4 hours to once every week, manufacturing lets you press a button once every 30 days if you like, likewise with BP copying and invention. All of them require some sort of input at some point in the process.

But it's only moongoo that people ***** about being "AFK". vOv

and no matter how the resource distribution will be changed:

those much better organized entities will

a: understand the consequences faster
b: be much faster to react to them
c: adapt and mold the eve-universe to get the most benefit out of those changes.

people cry out to CCP to "make those bad cartels go away" instead of thinking

"geeze, how did this happen ? how can we react ? what needs to be done?"

and then freakin do it. but not by posting stupid stuff
and complaining. if you are not willing to put in immense hours of work , talking, planning, trying out and failing and going back the drawing board you should stop talking about unthroning anyone....

its a sandbox. and some have built quiet a few very very large castles. so either you accept that and play with whats left in the sandbox or leave it and play with something else.

my advice would be to gang up with all the other ones that are just a jealous about those gigantig castles and just stomp them down.
but that would require maybe some talking to real people and forming some kind of bond. and all that ina casual game after work. sorry, I know I couldn-¦t do that.... and it seems to me like not many in this game can or it would have been done already.

To put it simply game mechanics should be fun and encourage interesting gameplay.

To put it simply game mechanics should be fun and encourage interesting gameplay. Right now moon mining is quite boring even for the large null sec alliances who hold them.

Also eve is not a limitless sandbox as you seem to imply, as the name suggests you are playing within a sand"box", designed by CCP to encourage fun and emergent gameplay.

Does your PI require defense fleets? Does it require fuel? Does it require anything other than you pressing a button every now and again?

No? Well shucks, no monster payout for you then.

Guess that means using it to compare is poor judgement then.

It's still just as much "passive income" as moongoo is. vOv

You know, if moongoo is such a worthless commodity and doesn't really drive any conflict, let's just make it worthless.

All the people in charge of handling it are saying it's worthless, everyone who doesn't involve it aren't going to be involved, all it does is allow forum posts to get locked and spammed.

And, as seems to be the case whenever you claim people are saying something, nobody is saying that it's worthless.

We are just saying that it is Not True that "nobody can compete with Tech Income." And we've demonstrated (repeatedly), exactly how one person (or a group of people) can (and have) compete[d] with Tech Income.

Rephrased.

And no, you haven't demonstrated. You've used instances that don't compare to say they don't compare, but compete, which they don't, because they are different.

Income stream is income stream right?

First you used ice mining and 500 mackinaws as comparison to the # of tech moons. then you used the people who own set # of tech moons, then you used different levels of rates (Tippia did as well) to convalute such an idea back and forth to make it illegible.

Then claimed to have proven it? You've wrecked any sort of order out of the situation. You didn't prove or demonstrate anything to show how it could be compared or competed with (you keep saying you aren't trying to compare but in essence that needs to be done) , but used an entire seperate formula to come to the same number.

That's like saying you can scam 1 person out of 5bil at one time logging in once per month and that would be competitive to moon mining.

There's has even been seperate arguments to use fleets and defenses and cta's and man hours to show different variables that do not apply to ice mining, because if they were, the figures would be way different.

You even used stocks and bonds as an argument!

They aren't competitive or comparable either! They are 2 very seperate and different ways to make money. One matures over time, the other is using a variable market to change prices based on what someone is willing to pay for them (most tech moon holders I don't think even want to sell the moongoo based on the use of production).

You can't even state a simple sentence of explanation without using variables to try to prove a point. --> "And we've demonstrated (repeatedly), exactly how one person (or a group of people) can (and have) compete[d] with Tech Income."

So you are saying you HAVE to have 500 man CTA's in order to run a pos? OR are you talking about the social agenda of making sure you make a profit.. you know.. SECURITY, which you need to do in order to hold sov anyways...

Nothing to do with the actual moon mining process.

Just like you don't HAVE to pay the 10mil permit to mine, or HAVE to have an orca to get bonuses to your afk/ATK mining.

I'd be far more excited if any 1 of my PI installations brought anywhere near 7mil an hour. I would gladly shut up at that point.

As it is, with 3 in lowsec and 1 in highsec I am maybe making 38mil every 3 days(at its very best).

Hurray for passive income!

Security. It's very much a part of the mining process. A reinforced or dead POS is not going to be doing any moon mining.
Just like it's a part of my free passive PI income. It's "free" and "passive" as long as I have system control, my POCO's stay up and I don't get blown up tending to it - with no local.
Just like an ATK miner is not going to be doing any untanked exhumer max yield mining in a belt ,surrounded by barge wrecks with a dozen pirates in the system.

It's up to others to create the risk and workload. If no one in the sand box is trying to stomp your castle it will stand, no matter how shoddy your construction is.

What if everyone who has ever posted complaining about moongoons, suddenly got together for a monthly event to try to reinforce a moon mining pos. They don't even need to actually reinforce it. Just create enough of a threat to force a defense fleet to form and GTFO.

Would that make moons:
A) free passive income
B) a conflict driver
C) something that needs to be removed from the game, because no one has the balls for B resulting in A



Two problems with your logic here.

First, you claim you make approximately 527,777 isk an hour. Fair enough. I make ~2,500,000 - 2,700,000 an hour making P2 POS fuel components. I could do better if I was not so lazy about it. Both in finishing training and the maintenance of it.
This leads me to conclude that one or more of the following are true:
A) You are using poor planets, or these planets are overpopulated by others already
B) Your skills are very low
C) Your setup is inefficient
D) Your choice of product is poor

It's fairly obvious that at least B is true. You have 4 planets. This means you have Interplanetary consolidation at 3. Which leads me to believe all your PI skills are around 3, meaning you probably don't even have advanced planetology injected.

Which leads into the other logic problem
You are comparing a single character (not even an account, just one character) with 1 week worth of training. To the income generated by a rare, alliance asset held though the efforts of hundreds of individuals. It only takes 13 people doing what you're doing to match a Tech Moon. Can 13 people take and hold one? Does your corp have at least 12 other characters making similar PI income?

How much effort is put into a Tech Moon is up to other players, not CCP. That's at the heart of the idea of a "conflict driver".

You know what would be just as awesome as moon mining depletion? If hi-sec agents had a set quantity of missions to give out every day, and once they'd handed them out, they moved to another NPC corp and based into another system and randomised their agent level.

And because after all, a hi-sec agent can produce vastly more wealth than a tech moon, I suggest that the mission cap be set proportionately low. Does 6 sound about right? Maybe 10, although i'm worried that allowing so much wealth to be produced from an invulnerable resource is too generous.

You seem to have some wrong assumptions about the value of mining Technetium. A Tech pos makes 7.2 million ISK per hour. A Mack mining Veldspar in empire makes about 10M/hr last I checked.

That's definitely one way to look at it - nerf a portion of the game that people actually interact with on a regular basis to bring it down to what you consider average moon goo profit levels.

Or, we could go the other way with it, and compare moon goo to something that actually makes sense - PI. Let's just make it so PI pulls in about 7 million isk/hour, like moon goo! That'll make moon goo largely useless, and generate a lot more bottom-up revenue!

Stop with the full ****** analogies, the forums are dumb enough as it is.

That's definitely one way to look at it - nerf a portion of the game that people actually interact with on a regular basis to bring it down to what you consider average moon goo profit levels.

Or, we could go the other way with it, and compare moon goo to something that actually makes sense - PI. Let's just make it so PI pulls in about 7 million isk/hour, like moon goo! That'll make moon goo largely useless, and generate a lot more bottom-up revenue!

Stop with the full ****** analogies, the forums are dumb enough as it is.

The thread is missing the real point here in my opinion. Yes it is possible to compete with moon goo income, the issue is, is moon mining in its current form conducive to interesting a fun gameplay?

In my opinion, and also I believe CCPs opinion, it is not. It encourages a static and defensive behaviour with null entities unwilling to fight. So in essence, I think CCP will overhaul things as they clearly say they want null sec to become vibrant again as the clear opinion is that it has stagnated.

Arguing against tech moon changes is like trying to argue against the tide coming in.

Or, we could go the other way with it, and compare moon goo to something that actually makes sense - PI. Let's just make it so PI pulls in about 7 million isk/hour, like moon goo! That'll make moon goo largely useless, and generate a lot more bottom-up revenue!

Yes, kind of depressing that that is the calibre of CSM candidates which we have.

Here is another anology - Tech moons in their current form is akin to having all wormhole and exploration signaures static and fixed in space never respawning. Ie once you've scanned them down, you never need to scan them down again.

Part of the interesting behaviour of wormholes and exploration sites are their dynamic behaviour.

You can make these analogies comparing apples to onions as the previous poster said, usually they are not of much use though.

Scared?

It's a lot more fun flying into controlled territory stealing precious resources, than being some rabbit waiting to be ganked.

Imagine the tears of getting away with moon goo.......

And yes, in a ship so nimble to make it all possible.

I refer you to the tale of David vs Goliath.

Now listen carefully, Grasshopper: swarms come in all sorts of variety. There's your type of swarm of kids without a clue. There's swarms that fight like killer bees; and there's swarms of blowflies that lay eggs that eat their hosts inside out.

Ninja mining is the latter.

Blob meet the ultimate blob eater.

And interestingly enough, comparing "tech moons" to wormholes and exploration signatures is also comparing apples to oranges, because wormholes and exploration signatures don't need you to spend hours anchoring a POS and setting up a reaction farm to take proper advantage of a wormhole or an exploration signature, whereas to take advantage of any moongoo, the least amount of effort you have to do is haul in and anchor a POS with a miner and a silo, and to do a proper job of it you need to react that as well.

And I'm going to bet on you not having spent any time, at all, with the POS interface in this fashion.

A blob of one. I'm not entirely sure you really get it.