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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.09.09 11:16:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
I wish they'd add 0.0 sec space between empires.
All the carebears would quit the game... 
no, but then finally there is something like really departed empires. People would have to risk many to get special things
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.09.09 11:24:00 -
[62]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 09/09/2005 11:26:16
I hate it!!11one!!
If I want to buy Gallente stuff cheap I have to go to Gallente space now! WTF is up with that?!
They did a half assed job on some of the highways though. For example when you go from Essence to Tash Murkon there's two routes. One with a .4 system, the other 100% safe, while the safe route is only 1 jump longer than the unsafe one.
Mai's Idealog |
Ankanos
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Posted - 2005.09.09 11:31:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 09/09/2005 11:12:34
I think you can break it down more simply than that.
Those who 'love it' want the best game.
Those who 'hate it' want the easiest game.
No-one likes long travel times, BUT some people realise that it is actually good for the basic structure of the game, whilst others can not see beyond their own noses.
Ironically, it is the general dislike of extended travel that makes the changes good.
Amen to that.
-ank
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.09.09 11:42:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 09/09/2005 11:12:34
I think you can break it down more simply than that.
Those who 'love it' want the best game.
Those who 'hate it' want the easiest game.
No-one likes long travel times, BUT some people realise that it is actually good for the basic structure of the game, whilst others can not see beyond their own noses.
Ironically, it is the general dislike of extended travel that makes the changes good.
Exactimundo.
'Hate it' people seem to believe that everyone supporting the change is either a pirate, or loves long, pointless travelling.
The fact is, travelling is there for a reason. Otherwise, we'd just have a 'teleport to...' button that lets us go anywhere. If you don't have much time to play EVE, then don't spend all of it travelling.
I see lots of people saying "zomg i hvae to go 457 jumps every tmie i logg on!!111one" without ONE SINGLE ONE OF THEM giving a reason as to WHY they feel compelled to move such distances.
_________
I'm going to kill you in the face! |
Alerce
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Posted - 2005.09.09 12:03:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Alerce on 09/09/2005 12:04:20
Oh man, the highways dont spread out manufacturers and markets.
THERE IS STILL NO GOOD MARKET ANYWHERE near amarr/khanid kingdom/kor-azor.
Why is the market and manufacturers not spread out?
Simple reason, it seems most people have research agents near caldari space.
They got their bpo's and all there. They dont need to travel, they sell anyway.
Almost all tech 2 bpo's are small monopolies. A monopolist doesnt need to travel to find a new market, he can just stay at home.
We need a system, that forces BPO researchers to spread out around the system map.
Right now, they all sitting in caldari really. Why would they go somewhere else?
Better market price? Get real, they will sell anyway, because of the monopoly system.
BPO's should rely on quality and not on quantity. But now they hand only a few bpo's out and then the owners if they play it right, dont even have to make BPC, but just make some products and they are set and can become rich. There is no stimulation to improve the quality of the bpo's if you are one of the only owners, there is no stimulation to conquer a bigger part of the market, because, if you keep supply small, you get way more.
The current bpo lottery system and research bpo system is FAILING hardcore. And if they dont change it fast, the economy will never get a real economy.
We need a production system, with race factories.
If you want to build certain equipment, you can only make it effective in the correct race factory. If you do it somewhere else, you should receive a big penalty, because its not the correct type of factory.
Bottom line: get rid of MONOPOLIES!!!!
Higways gone: only makes it tougher for the normal player to move his ships around, to visit his friends and just causes loads of extra DEAD time in game. If the reason was fixing the economy, then they should have fixed the REAL things that causes the NO-spreading out. But they just ignored the real reasons.
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Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.09.09 12:08:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Avon
Those who 'love it' want a realistic experiance.
Those who 'hate it' want to actually play a game.
fixed.
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Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2005.09.09 12:08:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 09/09/2005 12:08:28
*double post*
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.09 12:58:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 09/09/2005 11:12:34
I think you can break it down more simply than that.
Those who 'love it' want the best game.
Those who 'hate it' want the easiest game.
Wtong way round. The selfish and the short sighted who can't see the overall changes are the ones supporting it.
"Most used "love it" reason:
- Markets getting better, more markets, better trade/pricing"
Bull****.
It's NOT. I've CHECKED. The market is considerably more centralised to a very few (3) locations, and the border regions have significantly less material for less than NPC supply than before.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Dannyy
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Posted - 2005.09.09 13:29:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 09/09/2005 11:12:34
I think you can break it down more simply than that.
Those who 'love it' want the best game.
Those who 'hate it' want the easiest game.
Wtong way round. The selfish and the short sighted who can't see the overall changes are the ones supporting it.
"Most used "love it" reason:
- Markets getting better, more markets, better trade/pricing"
Bull****.
It's NOT. I've CHECKED. The market is considerably more centralised to a very few (3) locations, and the border regions have significantly less material for less than NPC supply than before.
Sorry, that is nonsense Maya.
I have an alt that I use now to make quite high (500%) profits on certain types of high demanded yet non-substitutional modules. I buy them in the regions where the supply is largest and sell them where demand is highest. this involves bringing them from one market area to others.
The market is not centralised to three locations at all Maya. I have 5 23/7 selling points in high sec empire alone, and many points where i come to buy and sell occasionally. And yet I cover not even half of the locations I could sell at easily to further increase profit.
Currently, I cover northern and central Caldari space, eastern and western Gallente space, Minmatar space and northern and southern Amarr space ALL the time. For me, that means I'm active in no less then 7 individual market areas. All of those are large and very active markets, all of them have supplies of nearly all you could need and at competitive prices for their region.
Yes, you sometimes have to travel further now to get stuff that your local market ran out of. Big Friggin Deal, exactly that is what enables me to have an actual trading career going on that is profitable enough to warrant covering all of empire with a remote order network.
Also, I tend to buy alot in border regions. For example, I buy some things in Delve, Stain and Curse occasionally. I can tell you from experience that the empire systems close to there are quite well supplied, not less then before the highway changes at all.
You know why that is Maya ?
Because supplies there come from corporations that make their play in 0.0 instead of in empire. They base around the edges of empire and seed the markets quite well.
Sure, prices on some things rise because of the suppliers being spread out more. But you know what that does right ? It makes room for more suppliers. For all tech1 items in Eve, the supplier pond is bottomless. All we need is mroe of them with half a brain instead of people thinking as limited as you do.
Maybe you shouldn't only come to the Jita area Maya. I've seen you buy goods of several of my chars there against prices that are double what you could get them for in other places.
Is it the fact that you don't feel like taking time off from losing your AF's and inties to actually do some market work that makes you cry for the convenience of having one spot to buy it all ? It seems so, since you pay so much.
Have you thoguht about it that maybe the reason the new markets havent filled properly yet is due to a shortange of people like me ? Or a shortage of people seeing the profit to be made by producing nowadays ?
********************************************************
Gilded Goose Brokerage
Essence - Sinq Liason - Genesys - Everyshore - The Citadel - The Forge - Lonetrek - Domain - Tash Murkon - Khanid |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.09 22:08:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/09/2005 22:08:14
Dannyy,
There are less goods avaliable in outer Empire regions, in terms of numbers.
Many prices for things like amo are rising to effectively NPC price at the edge of Empire.
I don't believe 0.0 has been looked at, admitedly.
Yes, individuals can and do profit. But as you say, there simply are not enough people like you because you cannot sell 100 items at 5 locations anymore. And I know people who used to sell WELL over 100 items at multiple locations pre market-nerf. x2+ travel has killed the other ones off. And every buy order means one less sell order.
And *personally*, I'm rich. I'll happily pay over the odds for common stuff on occasion for speed. But that's part of the marketplace too, of course :) (And yes, I lost ships. But I also kill. This is how things go...)
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
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TauTut
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Posted - 2005.09.09 22:45:00 -
[71]
Life without Highways > j00 
-TT
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Arwen Atreides
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Posted - 2005.09.09 23:43:00 -
[72]
has made very little difference to me
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Paladine Tor
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Posted - 2005.09.10 00:06:00 -
[73]
It has made my eve experience more interesting because I have actually started to look at the map, and I had never even considered trading as a way of making money.
--
Visit channel 'The Summit' for fun in-character (RP) discussion. |
Atar
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Posted - 2005.09.10 00:19:00 -
[74]
Hate it, that's why I don't play any more, those of us that don't play 8 hours a day and only a couple, never get anything done when travel takes an hour plus.
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Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.09.10 01:04:00 -
[75]
Originally by: jbob2000
I dont really like it. It's just creating alot more places for pirates to hang out and is making life extremely tough for the non-pvp type. This is creating an even larger demand for instant bookmarks, sadly.
Life surely is easy for the pirates.
Originally by: Gierling
It sucks
You should be able to jump from any gate to any gate.
There should be reasons to go to some systems other then "They were placed here to make it take longer to get from point A to B"
Yeah, remove stargates and make super-markets in all systems plz.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
I wish they'd add 0.0 sec space between empires.
/Signed
Originally by: Atar
Hate it, that's why I don't play any more, those of us that don't play 8 hours a day and only a couple, never get anything done when travel takes an hour plus.
Don't travel so much if you can't afford the time.
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McBane
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Posted - 2005.09.10 10:40:00 -
[76]
I love and hate it.
I kinda get why they did it (apart from server load!). ItĘs good to fragment the market place and spread people around a bit and it has indeed opened up some good trade opportunities ū and pirate opportunities.
ItĘs given a little bit of meaning and purpose to having the empires, but here I think that empires like Minmatar and Gallente being good allies would surely have secured quick and safe trades routes, while Minmatar and Amarr for example would be keen to distance themselves ū perhaps with some 0.0 in between that would give some meaning to the actual empire relationships and the trade flow between them.
But I do understand why many people hate it.
It has meant more travelling and meant you cannot always buy what you need without travelling some distance. Travel time has always been my pet hate in Eve ū partly because I am a bit lazy and partly because not having much online time I hate spending it all just travelling around ū itĘs like doing admin work!
Lazy people will just have to adjust, but for those who are limited on online time I can see it being a real issue.
_______________________________________________
Top 10 things I hate in these forums.
*snip* -Oi mod |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.09.10 11:05:00 -
[77]
I'm with Avon.
I like what it does for THE game but hate what it does for MY game. Travel times now take up a good chunk of my play time but I can't really complain because it has made the game somehow more fulfilling.
For example, I bet there are a lot of producers who are making a killing on previously unused constellation/regional markets.
Ayeilla > Yes, Lineage 2
has the most unhelpful
Gm's and tech support
around
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.09.10 11:36:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Atar
Hate it, that's why I don't play any more, those of us that don't play 8 hours a day and only a couple, never get anything done when travel takes an hour plus.
Any reasons as to why you travel so much? I DO play almost 8 hours a day, and I don't usually travel more than 10 jumps.
And I suppose it's unfair that since you play(ed) so little and could never afford a Dread CCP should give you one? I suppose everything in the game should be reduced to the lowest common denominator - the stupidest person who plays for the least amount of time should be able to acheive what everyone else can, otherwise it isn't FAIR?
Pff...
_________
I'm going to kill you in the face! |
Gretchen Dawntreader
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Posted - 2005.09.10 11:59:00 -
[79]
bottleneck low security systems + critical agents in those systems + perpetual gate campers = no fun for people who haven't spent 2 years skilling millions of skillpoints in combat improvement, and can't afford to risk losing a ship that might represent most of the moneymaking they have done so far in the game.
The new players who are most vulnerable to gate campers are the people you would hopefully be trying to encourage, since without new players, eventually EVE will be shut down. (Well all games end, but you would want to forestall that as long as possible, presumably.)
Now if you are one of the grinning skulls who enjoy shooting noobs all day, then this is great stuff. I note that over 3 pages of this thread, most of the folks with menacing-sounding corp names and sig lines are pretty much happy with the changes.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.10 13:05:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
For example, I bet there are a lot of producers who are making a killing on previously unused constellation/regional markets.
Except there's not. Because to do that, they'd need more sell order slots, and it's a huge risk moving away from the central hubs.
The limited order slots are the break on the economy, and for something like this, a VERY significant one.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.09.10 13:12:00 -
[81]
Who ever said we were in Yulai to begin with?
Assumptions is the mother of all Maya Rkell posts.
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Nicoli Voldkif
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Posted - 2005.09.10 14:53:00 -
[82]
Personnally I hate the loss of highway jumps. I generally pay more per item now then before. Why? because I don't have the play time to travel 30min to a hour to check out a single different kingdom/empires space to see whether or not it has a cheaper price. I stick on the border between The Citadel and Forge Region. Why? because my agents are nearby and it gives me the ability to check another region without traveling for 30min to a hour one way. I used to really like the ability to check out other regions faster pre-patch to find better prices on goods(by the way for those of you who never bothered to check Yulai was rarely the cheapest for me!).
So now I pay more for goods and try and see less of eve since almost never travel more than 3-4 jumps anymore as I rarely save enough money to warrant wasting an hour or 2 trying to find the best region with the best price on a item. Sure this has benefitted some people-(mostly gank-pirates and the few people who have the time to do massive movements between systems. Also i have completely lost contact with several friends because neither of us really want to spend the massive time jumping between systems to play together . well thats my $.02 |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.10 15:18:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 10/09/2005 15:32:23
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 10/09/2005 15:31:58
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Who ever said we were in Yulai to begin with?
Assumptions is the mother of all Maya Rkell posts.
I said central hubS (note the plural). Not Yulai.
I'm perfectly aware of Eve economic realities.
<Starship Troopers>And at least I have a mother. You were born by binary fission, like all amoeba.</Starship Troopers>
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Tobiaz
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Posted - 2005.09.10 16:30:00 -
[84]
I can still travel between all empires without ever having to cross 0.4 r lower. 
Who cares if the distances are a bit bigger if you can still safely autopilot all the way?
The empires need to be separated by unsecure space so we get to see some diversity between them.
Maybe even do something about those sentries so pirates can do their job more dynamically in frigates and don't have to rely on stagnant BS camps to get the job done, which harms both sides.
We're the rats eating your pie! |
Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.09.10 20:27:00 -
[85]
0.0 between empires would be tremendously dumb. Why should someone suffer no sec loss for killing Empire traffic?
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Fillmeup
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Posted - 2005.09.11 03:47:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: Atar
Hate it, that's why I don't play any more, those of us that don't play 8 hours a day and only a couple, never get anything done when travel takes an hour plus.
Any reasons as to why you travel so much? I DO play almost 8 hours a day, and I don't usually travel more than 10 jumps.
And I suppose it's unfair that since you play(ed) so little and could never afford a Dread CCP should give you one? I suppose everything in the game should be reduced to the lowest common denominator - the stupidest person who plays for the least amount of time should be able to acheive what everyone else can, otherwise it isn't FAIR?
Pff...
/begin lesson
I can see your obviously having a lot of trouble with undertsanding other points of view and play styles.
Reality is some of us have much less online time than you do with your '8hrs a day'. I can understand why this doesn't bother you. Why do you have such trouble grasping such a simple concept? The changes have benefitted almost all aspects of eve, but they have still affected those with shorter amounts of play time negatively.
EVE is unfortunately the type of game created to service those people with loads of play-time, and due to this change negatively affects those who can't due to the following reasons:
1/ Timezone - ask east-coast Aussies where DT hits (currently 9pm). Those who have a work life are hit the most cause we can't play until 4am to get the same play time as you and still be able to work.
2/ Other real-life reasons that preclude people from loggin on for a significant part of their day. (kids / families / poor internet connects etc etc)
I really don't see the need to berate someone who has an issue with it. Most of the plus's listed above are genuine, but discounting a truly valid reason just shows your ineptitude. Your example just reinforces this.
/end lesson
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.09.11 05:01:00 -
[87]
i hate it.
i think theyre some nice changes, like either going through low-sec or increasing ur travel times. maybe seperating the empires, but the travel times are ridiclous!
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Cilppiz
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Posted - 2005.09.11 10:35:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Cilppiz on 11/09/2005 10:37:00
I like it the way it is now, In my cases usually I have to choose either a shorter route trough systems that are known to be camped alot or then 20+ jumps safe route... And like mentioned markets seems to be more intersting now
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