Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Beaver Retriever
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 12:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Reduce the base jump clone timer to 12 hours. Introduce a new skill that then reduces it by 10% per level.
I swear to ******* god, what is the point of this thing, except to grief people? I thought you guys liked high PCUs, why are you making me not log in for 24 hours after I've used my jump clone for what I need it for? |

Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 13:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why reduce it to 12 hours (-50% max) and not 3 hours or 5 minutes?
Answering that depends on what jump clones are used for; for traversing large distances very quickly or swapping sets of implants for other sets? Consider a player jumping into a clone without implants, doing PvP or other potentially riskfull things for x hours and before logging off jumps into a clone with all +5 implants to maximize skill training. Desired game play? Don't think so |

Praclaroush
KnownUnknown
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 11:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
i do agree with a reduction on jump clone timers, although it may increase an amount of griefing but then again it would increase the "pvp" mechanics of the game and also allow pilot to use multiple clones throughout the day to do multiple things and at the end of it change clones to maximize their skill training instead of losing valuable hours on LONG training ques.
|

Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
147
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 12:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nagnor wrote:Why reduce it to 12 hours (-50% max) and not 3 hours or 5 minutes?
Answering that depends on what jump clones are used for; for traversing large distances very quickly or swapping sets of implants for other sets? Consider a player jumping into a clone without implants, doing PvP or other potentially riskfull things for x hours and before logging off jumps into a clone with all +5 implants to maximize skill training. Desired game play? Don't think so Tell me exactly what's wrong with that? The only major change would be more people with expensive implants to pvp, which is overall more isk sunk via more people pvping on a daily basis. Besides, when people with high grade implants start getting used to pvping, they become more likely to forget to switch to their pvp clone. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."-Vermaak Doe |

Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
43
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 13:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:Nagnor wrote:Why reduce it to 12 hours (-50% max) and not 3 hours or 5 minutes?
Answering that depends on what jump clones are used for; for traversing large distances very quickly or swapping sets of implants for other sets? Consider a player jumping into a clone without implants, doing PvP or other potentially riskfull things for x hours and before logging off jumps into a clone with all +5 implants to maximize skill training. Desired game play? Don't think so Tell me exactly what's wrong with that? The only major change would be more people with expensive implants to pvp, which is overall more isk sunk via more people pvping on a daily basis. Besides, when people with high grade implants start getting used to pvping, they become more likely to forget to switch to their pvp clone.
Agreed. And if I had the ability to swap clones more often, I would still PvP with implants, just different implants.
|

Mole Guy
Xoth Inc Unclaimed.
72
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 13:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
yeah, if i am mining and have my mining leadership implant in, i will pos up and wait it out since there is a stupid 24 hour timer.
allow me to switch and then switch back once the danger has passed, you will find me jump into a combat clone and bustin heads...then back to mining. or into my nighty night +5's
there is nothing wrong with that. |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 14:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ahhhh Malcanis' law in action.
It's awesome...almost like rent seeking. Give me something special, I'm older and richer.
And let me fix this for you:
Quote:allow me to switch and then switch back once the danger has passed, you will find me jump into a combat clone and bustin heads...then back to mining. or into my nighty night +5's
Quote:allow me to switch and then switch back once the danger has passed, you will find me jump into a combat clone and if we can get a big enough fleet we will be bustin heads, otherwise,we'll stand down and wait them out...then back to mining once we drive them off or they leave, otherwise, into my nighty night +5's
There.  |

Luc Chastot
Gentleman's Corp
333
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 14:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just modify the timer so it is based on distance, so the more distant the JC you want to jump to is, the more time you have to wait since your last jump. Add a few other variables and you could have a system that allows you to freely swap clones in the same system, but that still has restrictions for those who want to fast travel.
I still think the most anyone should wait is 12 hours, though. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 14:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Luc Chastot wrote:Just modify the timer so it is based on distance, so the more distant the JC you want to jump to is, the more time you have to wait since your last jump. Add a few other variables and you could have a system that allows you to freely swap clones in the same system, but that still has restrictions for those who want to fast travel.
I still think the most anyone should wait is 12 hours, though.
That would be a bit tough in null, but you could shave it down to a few hours. For example, you could make it dependent on the number of (gate) jumps. 24+ jumps = 24 hour timer. Same system, jump back and forth (or maybe a minimum of a 1 hour cool down). In null you could shave it down to 2-4 hours.
Still even this would undoubtedly benefit older/wealthier players far more than the newer/less rich players. Older players would be training faster, in general, that the newer players. Older players would have more ability to gather even more wealth than the younger players.
There is definitely a game balance issue here, and to say "This is awesome for me, therefore it is awesome in general," is not sufficient. |

Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
147
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 14:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
It actually does help new players quite a bit sincw in most cases they won't have the isk to replace a lot of implant sets. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."-Vermaak Doe |
|

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 14:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:It actually does help new players quite a bit sincw in most cases they won't have the isk to replace a lot of implant sets.
Many new players wont have jump clones or alot of isk for good implants...or the skills. This definitely helps the older players more. Malcanis' law holds...this is actually a perfect example of it. |

Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 16:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nagnor wrote:Why reduce it to 12 hours (-50% max) and not 3 hours or 5 minutes?
Answering that depends on what jump clones are used for; for traversing large distances very quickly or swapping sets of implants for other sets? Consider a player jumping into a clone without implants, doing PvP or other potentially riskfull things for x hours and before logging off jumps into a clone with all +5 implants to maximize skill training. Desired game play? Don't think so
If transversing distances is a problem, simply have different time limits based on light year distance from origin.
So if you're jumping between stations in system, make it an hr or something, if it's from outer ring to omist, then 23hrs.
What ever it is it shouldn't be 24 hrs, what a dumb idea that is.
While we're at it, wtf is with the 5 jump clone limit? That thing needs to go, or the skill changed to +2 per lvl.
I have currently:
blank crystals snakes slaves +4's Genos
I'd like to add Talismans and halos to that, maybe even grails, but I can't, seems fairly silly to limit my ability to have loads of at risk expensive heads. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |

Dheeradj Nurgle
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
346
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 16:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
So..... CCP should lower the Timer, because you're scared to get podded?....
|

Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
74
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 16:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Many new players wont have jump clones or alot of isk for good implants...or the skills. This definitely helps the older players more. Malcanis' law holds...this is actually a perfect example of it.
As a rather new player i disagree. Long cooldown for jump clones cripples newer players more than vets because vet players have all skills they need and often dont care about learning time already or even not training at all to avoid clone upgrade.
Akturous wrote:If transversing distances is a problem, simply have different time limits based on light year distance from origin.
So if you're jumping between stations in system, make it an hr or something, if it's from outer ring to omist, then 23hrs.
What ever it is it shouldn't be 24 hrs, what a dumb idea that is.
While we're at it, wtf is with the 5 jump clone limit? That thing needs to go, or the skill changed to +2 per lvl. Pretty much this. Swapping clones on same station should have very short or no cooldown at all. |

Jureth22
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
58
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 16:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Beaver Retriever wrote:Reduce the base jump clone timer to 12 hours. Introduce a new skill that then reduces it by 10% per level.
I swear to ******* god, what is the point of this thing, except to grief people? I thought you guys liked high PCUs, why are you making me not log in for 24 hours after I've used my jump clone for what I need it for?
how about a skill that allows you to undock faster?and one that reduces lag :D.we dont need no skill to reduce the timer.ccp needs to reduce it and thats it |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 16:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote: As a rather new player i disagree. Long cooldown for jump clones cripples newer players more than vets because vet players have all skills they need and often dont care about learning time already or even not training at all to avoid clone upgrade.
I don't understand your argument here. The skills are the same between jump clones. And if anything your argument suggests that newer pilots should have a shorter cool down--i.e. make the JC cool down dependent on skill points. Fewer skill points the shorter the cool down, the more you have the longer the cool down.
Now that would not invoke Malcanis' law as it would clearly benefit the newer players while not benefiting the older players. |

Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
254
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 20:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Reduce the cooldown by 1 hour per Informorph skill. Or just reduce the skill to 20 hours.
The idea being that if you JC in the middle of your play session to go do something dangerous, the timer is up at the beginning of your play session the next day so you can get back to business as usual. That's a playability change, and shouldn't have any real impact on the game in any other way. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |

monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 21:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.
whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.
so no, this should not happen. |

Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
153
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 21:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
monkfish2345 wrote:Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.
whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.
so no, this should not happen. So you're saying Sov should always be held by the largest groups? "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."-Vermaak Doe |

violator2k5
RogueRaiders
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 22:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Akturous wrote:What ever it is it shouldn't be 24 hrs, what a dumb idea that is.
While we're at it, wtf is with the 5 jump clone limit? That thing needs to go, or the skill changed to +2 per lvl.
I have currently:
blank crystals snakes slaves +4's Genos
I'd like to add Talismans and halos to that, maybe even grails, but I can't, seems fairly silly to limit my ability to have loads of at risk expensive heads.
that idea was implemented before your character was even created in eve. There really is no need to have more then 1 jc per skill level. you have more then enough options there with the current sets in your clones already.
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:So..... CCP should lower the Timer, because you're scared to get podded?....
I believe that's pretty much the issue with a lot of people but I wouldn't say that's what it is for all but with todays economy I wouldn't be surprised if there flying with at least +3 sets in there head since there cheap and easy to replace even when said player is expecting to get podded since its what, not even 1 hours ratting in 0.0 to get the isk for them |
|

Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
129
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 00:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
I agree with this wholeheartedly. The reason jump clones originally had a timer was to prevent us from crossing the galaxy instantly.
Now we have warp to 0 and jump bridges and cyno's and a whole slew of ways to move instantly. And because clones are often used more for implant storage than movement, I feel the time has come to reduce this by a significant amount.
Now, whether this is by half or a percentage through skills, or making it percentage based with every time you jump in a 24 hour period requiring a longer wait. This could be a simple "two hours between jumping" or as complex as the devs feel it needs to be.
But I personally feel it needs to be reduced. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that? |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 03:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote:monkfish2345 wrote:Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.
whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.
so no, this should not happen. So you're saying Sov should always be held by the largest groups?
No he is saying that a small group could hold vast swaths of null.
|

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 04:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
[quote=Ruze]I agree with this wholeheartedly. The reason jump clones originally had a timer was to prevent us from crossing the galaxy instantly.
Now we have warp to 0 and jump bridges and cyno's and a whole slew of ways to move instantly. And because clones are often used more for implant storage than movement, I feel the time has come to reduce this by a significant amount.[/qupte]
What errant nonsense. Even with JBs, cynos, and so forth it still takes time to move across the galaxy...and that is often perceived as a problem for null. So...lets make the problem worse?
Quote:Now, whether this is by half or a percentage through skills, or making it percentage based with every time you jump in a 24 hour period requiring a longer wait. This could be a simple "two hours between jumping" or as complex as the devs feel it needs to be.
But I personally feel it needs to be reduced.
Says the 7 year old character who will benefit from this more than the 7 month old character. Why don't you just ask for lots of really awesome ships simply due to your age?  |

Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
129
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 04:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Drake Doe wrote:monkfish2345 wrote:Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.
whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.
so no, this should not happen. So you're saying Sov should always be held by the largest groups? No he is saying that a small group could hold vast swaths of null.
As an example, Drake. an elite group of pvpers could, with prior planning, lock down several systems on different ends of the galaxy with the use of jump clones alone. Without simultaneous coordination by the attacking parties, this could cause nullsec to become less available to newer or smaller groups.
Because what a small group can do well, a large group can do even better. At least in EvE. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that? |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 05:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ruze wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Drake Doe wrote:monkfish2345 wrote:Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.
whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.
so no, this should not happen. So you're saying Sov should always be held by the largest groups? No he is saying that a small group could hold vast swaths of null. As an example, Drake. an elite group of pvpers could, with prior planning, lock down several systems on different ends of the galaxy with the use of jump clones alone. Without simultaneous coordination by the attacking parties, this could cause nullsec to become less available to newer or smaller groups. Because what a small group can do well, a large group can do even better. At least in EvE.
Sure, but they'll be able to hold far more space than they can use...then they'll rent it out. To the extent that force projection is a problem, then this will exacerbate the problem.
|

Ruze
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
129
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 05:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Ruze wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Drake Doe wrote:monkfish2345 wrote:Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.
whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.
so no, this should not happen. So you're saying Sov should always be held by the largest groups? No he is saying that a small group could hold vast swaths of null. As an example, Drake. an elite group of pvpers could, with prior planning, lock down several systems on different ends of the galaxy with the use of jump clones alone. Without simultaneous coordination by the attacking parties, this could cause nullsec to become less available to newer or smaller groups. Because what a small group can do well, a large group can do even better. At least in EvE. Sure, but they'll be able to hold far more space than they can use...then they'll rent it out. To the extent that force projection is a problem, then this will exacerbate the problem.
So how do you limit it?
To me, who would mainly use this as a means of saving implants (because lets face it, I'm just not going to undock with my +5's if it's dangerous outside), I would suggest that the time be related to the number of jumps distant the clone is. One hour for every gate or some such. You couldn't jump from one empire to the other without taking 12-15 hours.
Another option would be to increase the 'cooldown' between uses. In example, your first jump clone has a four hour cooldown, but your second has an 8, your third a 12, your fourth a 16, etc. This would reset if you waited at least 24 hours between JC's.
Finally, you have the skill method, which is obviously very much in line with EvE and CCP's method, but would also work more in the benefit of senior players than newer. If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality.-á That 'griefer/thief' is probably more sane than you are.-á How screwed up is that? |

Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
121
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 06:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ruze wrote:
So how do you limit it?
Well, I'd say you don't start by making force projection easier, and at the same time make earning isk and skill points for older characters even easier than for new players.
Quote:To me, who would mainly use this as a means of saving implants (because lets face it, I'm just not going to undock with my +5's if it's dangerous outside), I would suggest that the time be related to the number of jumps distant the clone is. One hour for every gate or some such. You couldn't jump from one empire to the other without taking 12-15 hours.
Yeah, and then soon, sov holding alliances are using it to move across the galaxy to different stagging systems very quickly. Even quicker than they can now (which is pretty quick).
Quote:Finally, you have the skill method, which is obviously very much in line with EvE and CCP's method, but would also work more in the benefit of senior players than newer.
Considering that this method would lead to the older and richer characters training this skill faster than younger characters this would not really help much with either force projection or in widening the gap between newer players and older players.
Noting something is great for convenience sake really isn't a good argument. It tells me you haven't thought about the impact to balance. And keep in mind I'm a 5+ year old character. I'd definitely use this to:
1. Train faster than I am now. 2. Move to different staging areas very rapidly. 3. Optimize character implant clones.
Why let advantages go un-used? And I'm damn sure I would not be the only one. |

Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 03:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
All you mongs going on about force projection really didn't read the simple solution I offered to that did you? Go back and read it again. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |

Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
164
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 08:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Drake Doe wrote:monkfish2345 wrote:Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.
whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.
so no, this should not happen. So you're saying Sov should always be held by the largest groups? No he is saying that a small group could hold vast swaths of null. Could, but if it's attacked by multiple fleets taking systems at the same time, it won't be possible. You've yet to point out why that would be bad. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."-Vermaak Doe |

Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
164
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 08:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ruze wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Drake Doe wrote:monkfish2345 wrote:Between JC's, cyno chains and bridges there is already massive issues with force projection in eve.
whilst this seems like a good idea in isolation. the effect of it would make it even easier for smaller forces to own larger spaces.
so no, this should not happen. So you're saying Sov should always be held by the largest groups? No he is saying that a small group could hold vast swaths of null. As an example, Drake. an elite group of pvpers could, with prior planning, lock down several systems on different ends of the galaxy with the use of jump clones alone. Without simultaneous coordination by the attacking parties, this could cause nullsec to become less available to newer or smaller groups. Because what a small group can do well, a large group can do even better. At least in EvE. But at the same time it lets smaller alliances better defend themselves in the event that they have to cross large relatively large distances to defend. For example, if mosr of the alliance's dreads are in th system being attacked, how will they get enough people into position to defend if their attackers have the system more or less completely locked. Even though larger forces can also use this, it provides a slight boost to the possibility of smallee forces to take Sov "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."-Vermaak Doe |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |