it's not that we have no enemies, it's that there is no one left to fight we haven't been fighting forever, it's just not new

bob had their boredom fixed that by a plucky alliance full of newbies that burst onto the scene and systematically evicerated everyone between scalding pass and delve

There are some very good points being made here, and I just want to make it abundantly clear that I (and I assume others who are arguing similar points) are in no way, shape or form talking about forcing everyone to become peons in massive nullsec alliances. Far from it. If anything, huge nullsec alliances are more of a hindrance than a help.

However, there is this very tangible barrier that everyone who has left the hisec belt or lvl 4 mission hub had to cross, and I guarantee the the vast majority of us have absolutely zero regreats about doing so as it opens an entire new world of gameplay that is not available in any other game out there, no exaggeration. We want to help other people cross that barrier because we know how hard it can be, we know you'll almost assuredly appreciate it, and finally because then we get to play the game with you as friends, allies, enemies, whatever. It's not even a matter of leaving hisec so much as it's getting out of those gd belts and mission hubs and interacting with other players on a substantial level.

Yes I remember that, goons were hell fun back then, we followed their exploits against the opressive mega alliance with much joy

Now sadly, they seem to have replaced said alliance....... oh well that's progress I suppose....

Unforunately when one alliance gets too big it depletes the opportunities for the rest of the game population, which as someone said above, causes all the kids to huddle in one small corner of the sandpit.

Tell me the options you have. We are currently, including about 20 silent allies in other corps, like 30 players. Now tell me what chances would we have in 0-Sec except renting or kissing Miss Tani arses. Or how we would have more fun there than in wormholes, low sec, high sec?

We do interact very vividly in our TS and chats. We already have fun and enjoy the game. So... What's so wrong about it? It's not like we cannot fly stealth ships and have no idea what 0.0 space looks like?

no it won't, it'll mean nobody lives in nullsec. people may control parts, but they'll live in torrinos and just travel out to control tech moons. why live in vfk when 0.0 has everything that much harder? if nobody lives in vfk, what's the point of fighting over it?

Well then youre obviously not part of the group I am clearly and unequivocally referring to in the post you just responded to, are you?

I think I made it clear in prior posts that we do not hug to High Sec all the time... And, no. I don't want to be part of your group, but if you can spell out UNEQUIVOCALLY backwards without stuttering on TS, I will award you a medal. ;)

So why isn't it happening?

It's one thing for some to say where people "should" be. If it's not happening now, using a big stick ain't gonna make it happen either.

This is rich coming from the guy who wants CCP to break the sandbox and make highsec miners completely safe.

If logistics everywhere is harder (not just null sec, dear neck beard Weaselior), how will you just travel out from Torrinos to defend your tech moons? If nobody lives in null sec, where are the ships coming from to attack your infrastructure?

You do realize you're not even responding to what you're quoting, right?

I'll give you one more chance to read back on the line of conversation to see if you can pick it up, and if not, then I'm just going to ignore you.

Good luck.

Now reducing this to logical statements, it reads like this:
- You do not want to force anyone to be in a large 0-sec alliance
- It is hard but rewarding to leave High Sec behind
- You want to free people from High Sec to join you in 0-Sec or wherever (you did not clarify)

So I agree that High Sec alone can be boring. Now, please, Master of Rhetorics, educate me in me wrong-quoting you. Otherwise I'll just ignore you, ok?

So why isn't it happening?

It's one thing for some to say where people "should" be. If it's not happening now, using a big stick ain't gonna make it happen either.

I'd love to probe down a signature and discover it's a Amarr missionary caravan that's broken down, and needs me to go rescue some kidnapped priests in a nearby system

I don't disagree with any of this: part of the whole 0.0 takeover of the CSM was because 0.0 has stagnated and become unfun.

Nullsec ratting in a failfit drake: 60M ISK/hr. No agents. No warping to station. No LP-to-ISK-conversion. Just ratting in belts until intel reports reds inbound, then either warp to POS or join the counter-attack.

Level 4s in hisec: 60M ISK/hr if you're cherry-picking and have a bunch of agents to pick from, and managing LP to ISK conversion, and flying a T2+faction fit mission boat.




Only if you're looking at ways to make ISK while active at the keyboard. Read the Making ISK guide for more ideas of how to make ISK while not sitting at the keyboard.

Of course all this focus on ISK income makes it sound like the reason people don't go out to null sec to become mindless drones in someone else's empire, is that the individual income out in null is a deciding factor. There are many other factors in play here: the aversion to loss (which can be overcome with encouragement), the perception of being required to log in on demand, the perception of being required to follow orders, the perception of having no opportunity to explore the possibilities of null sec individually.

In fact, many people think that moving out to null sec is one step short of a gaol sentence.

The problem is not null sec, it's not game mechanics, it's not ISK income potential for lazy super cap pilots.

The problem with null sec is the people who live there, who seem to view hisec as a vast untapped supply of warm bodies, even when they themselves are running a few enthusiastically ratting alts in hisec to make up the risk-free ISK to buy the extra super caps to fund their super cap blob habit.

see its funny, all they really need to do to make 0.0 better is BOOST the amount of money you can get by going there

HOWEVER - CCP chose to NERF the things that were doing this - Sanctums
When 0.0 started making too much money, CCP nerfed their ability to make it...
Seems to me they DONT want 0.0 players making more than high sec players. No matter how much the 0.0 players scream about it, CCP's past actions show where they sit

an plus, I keep hearing over and over and over "theres more to EVE than making ISK."
Yes I keep SEEING over and over and over "ISK/hour etc"

Malcanis "bro" there have been a few null nerfs this is true. Perhaps I am wrong, maybe the aim is to push people out of game altogether?

You do not need to make null sec safer and definitely not all people in High Sec are sissies afraid to lose some ships or all of them. Most stand up and start anew. Those who leave because they lose ships I'd agree are playing the wrong game.

I think you should get rid of that idea of cowardly carebears in HS and leet PVPers in 0.0. It is wrong.
How about you re-read the earlier post I made here where I tried to explain (again)? It is a wall of text, I admit it, but perhaps it makes you understand.

I remember that, too. I cheered for the Goons, because they were a fresh element. Creative, disruptive and anti-establishment.
Establishment being BoB at the time.

Now the Goons are the Establishment. Probably more boring than being rebels. And their ranks swell with "easy ISK" guys.