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JForce
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Posted - 2005.09.19 04:32:00 -
[1]
I've searched the forums, I've searched through the dev blogs, but I can't find the info on this thing people keep talking about.
So, what is it? What will happen to make ore thieves stop? When does it happen?
thanks for the info
JForce
CEO and Founder of NWA
NWA now recruiting
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.09.19 04:37:00 -
[2]
Linkage
It's in testing, which means... next patch?
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In war there is only relentless and pointless quotes about war such as this one |
Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.09.19 04:38:00 -
[3]
The plan to stop ore thieving is already implemented, it's called secure containers.
The plan to make ore thieving more dangerous is to make it so if you steal from others cans the others can attack you with no penalty.
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
MooKids
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Posted - 2005.09.19 04:41:00 -
[4]
It happens when the jet can miners learn and adapt, so, never.
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CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Clutch Cargo
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Posted - 2005.09.19 06:54:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
The plan to stop ore thieving is already implemented, it's called secure containers.
Yea these are awesome. They can't be anchored in .7 or up. They can't be anchored within 5k or anything and they hold less than 1 mining cycle of a covetor. Secure cans 4tw.
Why CCP doesn't make secure cans the same way they make POS parts is beyond me. Launch them and when you anchor them they expand. How hard would that be?
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.09.19 08:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Clutch Cargo
Why CCP doesn't make secure cans the same way they make POS parts is beyond me. Launch them and when you anchor them they expand. How hard would that be?
eerh, isn't that obvious ?
...Because they don't want your ore to be safe.
CCP could instead of this whole intricate flagging system thing where a miner can shoot a thief and the thief can shoot back simply have implemented uber secure containers with like 1 million m3 cargospace and stuff.
Instead, they want you to be responsible for your own safety and theft protection, so they give you an ability paired with an added risk.
That's the Eve way.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.09.19 08:07:00 -
[7]
Rod stole my reply. 
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Andrue
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Posted - 2005.09.19 08:46:00 -
[8]
I do believe this has all been discussed before. 
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
CelticKnight
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Posted - 2005.09.19 08:53:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Yea these are awesome. They can't be anchored in .7 or up. They can't be anchored within 5k or anything and they hold less than 1 mining cycle of a covetor. Secure cans 4tw.
I wanted to say that.. but seriously.. if your using a cov. you either have a dedicated Alt hauling. or have mates hauling.
Secure cans serve ONE purpose, the smalls, good advertising/small storage. the Bigs.. to allow noobs to thing theyre mining safely... provided they can find a big enough ship to fit the can in!
Give cans a better USE. not have a can with a hold of like 1mil m3 but have a can that can hold 20km3.. but is 9000m3 in size ;)
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.09.19 08:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CelticKnight
Give cans a better USE. not have a can with a hold of like 1mil m3 but have a can that can hold 20km3.. but is 9000m3 in size ;)
What would that accomplish ?
Oh yes, that any halfskilled hauler could carry one, and that mining into secure cans would end the ore thief.
May I point you to my earlier post ? The 1 million m3 thing was sarcastic, 20K m3 serves as the same thing.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.09.19 09:04:00 -
[11]
How about a 20,000m3 can that is 100% secure?
You could call it an "Iteron mk5"
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
kimahri 61
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Posted - 2005.09.19 09:26:00 -
[12]
Avon And Rod are right, we dont need bigger sec cans. Nice as they might be :) But despite their views jet can mining is the single fastest way to mine in the game. Especially if you are using a covetor or some other ship that mines a lot of ore quickly.
The downside to jet can mining is the risk of someone pinching the ore. Even if flagging is implemented it wont stop ore theft and it shouldnt. Its part of the game and easily avoided anyway.
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Tekran
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Posted - 2005.09.19 17:13:00 -
[13]
the cycles go 'round and 'round.
to stop an ore thief:
*have an alt with a hauler
(or)
*have a Pal with a hauler (and more miners nearby, usually)
*dont mine in high-sec hub systems.
*dont mine in high-sec hub systems.
*repeat*
.2isk
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.19 17:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Avon
Rod stole my reply.
He does that a lot.
When will CCP nerf the forum's replythiefs?
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Clutch Cargo
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Posted - 2005.09.19 17:54:00 -
[15]
Quote:
eerh, isn't that obvious ?
Yea, it's obvious. I simply do not understand WHY CCP wants to make mining so difficult. I find absolutely non-sequiter that you would have secure cans that don't even hold one cycle worth of ore?
I know that that within EVE there is this rivalry between pvp/pve/mining/trading/mission running. But there is absolutely no way all you BOB guys would be so casual if CCP implemented something so silly with regard to PVP. I know this because I see the posts regarding aggress timers, safespotting, missile nerfs, tracking, scan probes etc.
So, take jet cans out of the equation because they are not safe. If you mine in a barge you have two choices. Plant secure cans 5k from everything, mine one cycle, fly to them and dump, repeat until how ever many cans are full then get a hauler and collect, or you can fill your hold and fly to station and empty.
IMO this would be the same as allow any fighting ship to hold 1 round of ammo per turret or launcher. To which I would make the argument that you (PVP guys) could pre-launch secure cans to hold your ammo where you need it, have someone in a hauler fly next to you with extra ammo or you could fly back to the station each time and get more. How would like that?
Mining and Industry are just as much a part of this game as anything else. So not having a workable solution to securing ore in the belt is silly and puts more grind to industry than is necessary absent using unsecure jet cans.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.19 18:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Clutch Cargo
Yea, it's obvious. I simply do not understand WHY CCP wants to make mining so difficult.
Frankly, because nothing in EVE is supposed to be EASY.
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Clutch Cargo
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Posted - 2005.09.19 20:21:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Frankly, because nothing in EVE is supposed to be EASY.
Wow, in one sentence you managed to remove a need for the forums, customer service and petitions.
I know there are several of you here that feel (maybe because you think that forum whoring makes you a celebrity whose words we all wait with baited breath to read) the need to reply to every single thread and every single response to every single thread; it's lost on me.
The original poster made a valid point, that so far no one (even the smarter posters) has yet to adequetly address. Personally I think it's lame that every time CCP changes a turret, missile or combat mod the forums are inundated with PVP'er whining about it. Then someone posts something that actually makes sense (big enough secure cans to make mining a bit less of a grind) and the same guys who whine in the other threads are here telling miners to "suck it up" or "adapt".
Sorry to burst your bubble(s) but this is a valid issue, whether you mine or not.
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Fellhand
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Posted - 2005.09.19 20:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Clutch Cargo
I simply do not understand WHY CCP wants to make mining so difficult.
Because CCP hate miners and industrialists and will give us just enough content to stop us quitting and no more. Had you not noticed this yet?
_______________________________________________
There is no such thing as too much cynicism
Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats...
Beware of geeks bearing gifs
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Mog'hedian
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Posted - 2005.09.19 20:26:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Mog''hedian on 19/09/2005 20:28:45
Edited by: Mog''hedian on 19/09/2005 20:27:51
Maybe they should make bigger secure cans.
But then is there (maybe) the problem of miners earning more money then they do now.
Shouln't be mining made more time consuming then?
Hmm did get the quote 
Reply isn't even near quote 
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Nostradamu5
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Posted - 2005.09.19 21:32:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Nostradamu5 on 19/09/2005 21:34:19
Edited by: Nostradamu5 on 19/09/2005 21:33:34
] Quote:
I know there are several of you here that feel (maybe because you think that forum whoring makes you a celebrity whose words we all wait with baited breath to read) the need to reply to every single thread and every single response to every single thread; it's lost on me.
Hey clutch probably not wise to annoy those BOB's and friends of BOB.
that's my 2 isk.
Faulty testing kept me from delivering the "Logic Editor" earlier.
I was using my own post and it kept blanking everything out.
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AKaaron10
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Posted - 2005.09.19 21:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: Clutch Cargo
Why CCP doesn't make secure cans the same way they make POS parts is beyond me. Launch them and when you anchor them they expand. How hard would that be?
eerh, isn't that obvious ?
...Because they don't want your ore to be safe.
CCP could instead of this whole intricate flagging system thing where a miner can shoot a thief and the thief can shoot back simply have implemented uber secure containers with like 1 million m3 cargospace and stuff.
Instead, they want you to be responsible for your own safety and theft protection, so they give you an ability paired with an added risk.
That's the Eve way.
I've only been hit by an ore thief once. It was infuriating but I accept it as a part of the game. I haven't been hit since because I have a better system in place. I also have that person on my buddy list... for future reference. 
AK
Eve Mail me for hauling yer knick-knacks |
AKaaron10
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Posted - 2005.09.19 21:49:00 -
[22]
Edited by: AKaaron10 on 19/09/2005 21:52:22
Originally by: Clutch Cargo
Quote:
eerh, isn't that obvious ?
Yea, it's obvious. I simply do not understand WHY CCP wants to make mining so difficult. I find absolutely non-sequiter that you would have secure cans that don't even hold one cycle worth of ore?
What's so difficult about it?
It's more challenging this way, but it's hardly difficult.
Why not just glut the game with massive mining abilities, so that everyone can get rich overnight, and afford everything the game has to offer so that everyone can do everything within the first month of playing?
CCP's gonna ruin this game by listening to impatient whiners.
AK
Eve Mail me for hauling yer knick-knacks |
Clutch Cargo
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Posted - 2005.09.19 22:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Clutch Cargo on 19/09/2005 22:09:50
Quote:
Hey clutch probably not wise to annoy those BOB's and friends of BOB.
Point taken, but I wasn't referring to the BOB posters I was referring to the guy who I quoted. There are several (Not Joshua Calvert) people who I constantly see replying to every single post on the board, whether they have something to add or not. Seems that guy is one of them. Besides BOB has better stuff to do than chase after miners...I hope. 
Quote:
Why not just glut the game with massive mining abilities, so that everyone can get rich overnight, and afford everything the game has to offer so that everyone can do everything within the first month of playing?
Here you have it, the crux of the biscuit. This goes back to my original post in this thread and that is a rivalry between the different aspects of the game. This is the reason cited for nerfing missiles, so noobs in Ravens couldn't get rich on lvl 4 missions. This is cited for pretty much everything, so I won't bother to list them.
Although this has some merit, it falls flat when you factor two things. The first is that having a bigger can is not going to increase the amount of ore mined. All it will do is prevent thieves from profiting from that ore instead of the guy who actually mined it. People have not given up mining because they can't secure their ore, they simply continue to mine knowing the risk. If you ignore what I just wrote and somehow, having a bigger secure can available to miners manages to cause a glut in minerals on the market, the price goes down and people get less for what they do. This is unlikely to happen however.
Bottom line here, CCP is going to do what CCP is going to do. I was always told the sqweaky wheel gets the grease. As a matter of fact I heard that was the exact reason that frigs got such a boost and BS got nerfed, frig pilots making alot of noise. Miners (who pay the same per month as everyone else) are just making a bit of noise.
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Squelch
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Posted - 2005.09.19 22:12:00 -
[24]
Clutch speaks the truth.
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Kula Alpha
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Posted - 2005.09.19 22:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Kula Alpha on 19/09/2005 22:21:50
I don't understand how the proposed fix will work. One scenario: I'm peacefully mining away, in a cruiser or barge, deep in mining trance, daring to use a jet can. Up hauls this battleship see, and steals my ore. Now I understand that I'd free to blast him from space. Great. He transfers my ore, one holdful at a time to HIS jet can. Now I can steal from him... great. His friend arrives in a hauler, and I bid fond farewell to "my" Veldspar.
The proposal seems to differ from the current situation only in that the thief needs a large combat ship.
Would gang members be able to fire on the knavish rogue without incurring Concord terminal sanction?
Have I missed something, and would the proposed change actually prevent ore thieving?
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Drummore
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Posted - 2005.09.19 22:51:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Drummore on 19/09/2005 22:52:04
well, according to the ships and modules forum CCP has implemented the solution to ore thieves.
ore thieves doom
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Mak'shar Karrde
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Posted - 2005.09.19 22:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kula Alpha
Have I missed something, and would the proposed change actually prevent ore thieving?
The Devs don't have a problem with ore thieving. This change is only intended to give miners the chance to fight back. It's something (some) miners themselves have been asking for, for a long time.
It's true that it will not stop many thieves but that's not it's intention (AFAIK).
And as a footnote, maybe this means more ore thieves will use their mains.
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Crimson Djinn
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Posted - 2005.09.19 23:10:00 -
[28]
"Whats the plan to stop ore thieving?"
To give out clones with increased intelligence.
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Clutch Cargo
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Posted - 2005.09.19 23:14:00 -
[29]
When I first heard about criminal flagging of ore thieves I thought it was a good idea. Then I read the Crime and Punishment forum and quickly changed my mind.
For the reason posted in an above reply, miners are just going to get spanked if criminal flagging is the implemented "solution" to ore thievery. I can see it now, all the suicide alts that gank barges now will be able to do it without getting concorded because some guy in a barge decides to attack them if they nick some ore.
This solution would end up being a gankfest. Every wannabee pirate would come to empire for some easy kills. You know why noob/npc corps don't allow corpmates to shoot at each other in empire? Because every griefer would join a NPC corp and go to noob systems where the carnage would begin. Although this is different, the result would be the same.
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.09.20 00:08:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Bhaal on 20/09/2005 00:09:15
CCP will have to fix this problem sooner or later...
It's been a boil on CCP's butt since beta...
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Current Hobby other than EVE |
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