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Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation
Beacon Light Alliance
149
   |
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Not sure how to explain this so let me explain by a story of what happened to me a few days ago.
I belong to an alliance in Null. I do the majority of my isk-making/PvE there. When you do this in Null, there are things you need to do:
- I keep the Intelligence channel open so I can 'see' bad guys coming before they even reach me.
- I have local disconnected from chat and set up right in the MIDDLE of my screen so I am constantly looking at it. This way I can see any non-blue coming into local within seconds.
- I only run PvE in systems where there are friendly POS's to warp to. In addition, I have several, nicely placed far-apart safe spots.
- I am constantly running full speed and aligned. I can warp out instantly.
- When a blue comes into my area and I don't recognise the name as someone a know WELL, I warp off.
So, anyway, There was a particular couple fo guys (non-blue) who I must have offended with my big, smartass mouth and they tried to get me. I didn't really know this at the time - just knew that neuts were around more often. A few days ago I get a convo invite from a nuet and he proceeds to complain bitterly that Eve was 'broken', wrong etc etc etc because a friend of his and him have tried to get me for days. They tried everything he said...even getting an alt into the alliance and try to Awox me.
His point was that Eve should be set up so he had a chance to nab me...even though I was 100% prepared at all times when I PvE'd.
Well, maybe he has a point? I don't think so but maybe? Curious as to what others think.
The main thing that made me decide he probably doesn't have a point is if he should have a chance to nab me even though I took all precautions...shouldn't I have a chance to nab him as well when he is trying to nab me? Even though he is doing all the right things, cloaking, etc shouldn't I have a chance to get him in a way he can do nothing about or should it only apply to PvE'ers? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13642
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nah. That's the whole point of GÇ£doing everything right.GÇ¥
His failure is not indicative of a broken game.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation
Beacon Light Alliance
149
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nah. That's the whole point of GÇ£doing everything right.GÇ¥
His failure is not indicative of a broken game.
Well, yes...but I'm thinking more broad...like local being removed, dscan gimped something that makes it so one CAN'T be perfectly prepared.
Should a predator be able to catch prey in Eve where the Prey is doing everything in his/her power to not be caught?
I think my OP is poorly phrased becuase that is the question I'd like to see what people think. |
Erik Kaassan
Black Sun Brethren
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
The answer to this one is just obvious. The game doesn't take sides.
If he surprises you and turns you into a pile of scrap metal then you were obviously unprepared. If not then he was unprepared. There is no reason you should be punished for playing smarter than him. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1602
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nuela wrote:Should a predator be able to catch prey in Eve where the Prey is doing everything in his/her power to not be caught or should the Prey have to make a mistake or not be fully cautious?
If you out-played them, good on you. No use them whining about it.
Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me.
Voter response is quite good this time around:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qCaz2OlMecY/UWhTTh_NfFI/AAAAAAAAPOE/ryjfQkApycs/s1600/05.jpg |
Merouk Baas
618
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tell him:
Well I wasn't 100% prepared, as I left myself vulnerable to receiving your whiny ass convo, so there you go, you got me, with words at least. If your tears were a weapon they'd be a snowball CXV, doing negative damage, but damage nonetheless.
Congrats.
Won't happen again, as you're now on /ignore. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Polarized.
676
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.
Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1328
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
They should have just afk cloaked for a week. It'd be worse than ganking you.
Mining Overhaul
Nothing changed since 2008. |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
751
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Different tactics for different places.
They need to drive you into making a mistake, not complain that they are terrible and EVE should be nerfed down to their level. Enable AFK Cloaking and logoff tactics. Also, more intelligent AWOX tactics, because clearly they gave up way too soon.
They need to HTFU and put in more effort, or move onto more derpy players.
I'm Denzel Washington. |
Erik Kaassan
Black Sun Brethren
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.
So they should be punished for using a game provided resource to get a leg up on potential predators? Did I get redirected to the World of Warcrap forums? |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13648
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.
Fortunately, there is a neat strategy to disrupt local and turn it into a weapon against exactly the kind of people the OP representsGǪ 
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sounds like they just gave up too early, or left the system too soon . . . like bad hunters. |
Jonasan Mikio
Hateful Munitions
Totally Consensual
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nuela wrote:Not sure how to explain this so let me explain by a story of what happened to me a few days ago.
I belong to an alliance in Null. I do the majority of my isk-making/PvE there. When you do this in Null, there are things you need to do:
- I keep the Intelligence channel open so I can 'see' bad guys coming before they even reach me.
- I have local disconnected from chat and set up right in the MIDDLE of my screen so I am constantly looking at it. This way I can see any non-blue coming into local within seconds.
- I only run PvE in systems where there are friendly POS's to warp to. In addition, I have several, nicely placed far-apart safe spots.
- I am constantly running full speed and aligned. I can warp out instantly.
- When a blue comes into my area and I don't recognise the name as someone a know WELL, I warp off.
So, anyway, There was a particular couple fo guys (non-blue) who I must have offended with my big, smartass mouth and they tried to get me. I didn't really know this at the time - just knew that neuts were around more often. A few days ago I get a convo invite from a nuet and he proceeds to complain bitterly that Eve was 'broken', wrong etc etc etc because a friend of his and him have tried to get me for days. They tried everything he said...even getting an alt into the alliance and try to Awox me.
His point was that Eve should be set up so he had a chance to nab me...even though I was 100% prepared at all times when I PvE'd.
Well, maybe he has a point? I don't think so but maybe? Curious as to what others think.
The main thing that made me decide he probably doesn't have a point is if he should have a chance to nab me even though I took all precautions...shouldn't I have a chance to nab him as well when he is trying to nab me? Even though he is doing all the right things, cloaking, etc shouldn't I have a chance to get him in a way he can do nothing about or should it only apply to PvE'ers?
Smart carebear is smart, you deserve to live... if you are doing everything right you should be winning.. they MUST be doing something wrong, or they would be winning..
So yes I concur with your post about how you should be winning if you are doing everything right |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1328
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.
Has there ever been a thread about brainstorming ideas intelligence gathering methods in the hypothetical case that local gets removed/nerfed? If not, we definitely need one.
Mining Overhaul
Nothing changed since 2008. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Rek Seven wrote:He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you. Has there ever been a thread about brainstorming ideas intelligence gathering methods in the hypothetical case that local gets removed/nerfed? If not, we definitely need one.
Talk to literally any wormhole corp.
|
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
178
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 17:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nuela wrote:I'm thinking more broad...like local being removed, dscan gimped something that makes it so one CAN'T be perfectly prepared.
Surprisingly enough, the lack of a free Local intel channel isn't the end of the world. It will force you to change your tactics, and you/your allies might have to perform actual intelligence work, but there are many extra possibilities.
Any attacker has no idea whether you are alone or whether you are just bait for a fleet hidden elsewhere; he can't see that Falcon just off-grid who is ready to light a cyno. He can't even see the other cloakies that are on-grid with you. When you want to hunt, you will actually be able to hunt; you can drive out the RMT'ing bots (that aren't part of your alliance) without them knowing you are there. Just think of the bot tears that will rain from the heavens!
I would even suggest that removing the Local intel channel will make life in Null more exciting and encourage people to make friends, playing the game together.
Edit: But yeah, if you do everything right, are prepared, and use all the tools at your disposal better than your opponent, you should succeed. It doesn't matter which end of the gun you face. |
Tank Talbot
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
I can do everything right and walk outside of my home and still be shot dead. How REAL do the developers want EVE to feel and how REAL are you willing to accept? I say it's fine. Win some. Lose some. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
596
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Step 1: add you as a contact on watchlist to know when you are usually only.
Step 2: run locator agents to know what systems you pve in.
Step 3: monitor the evemap statistics in that area to see when the vest time to sneak a force in is.
Step 4: sneak in a known pve haunt when you are offline with combat ships and some good probers.
Step 5: log off, go play on alt accounts that have you on their watch list.
Step 6: whenever you log in, run locator agents.
Step 7: once you seem to busy with pve, send Convo invite as distraction, log in and attempt to trap you.
Optional steps, try to sneak some drag bubbles in.
Not sure what else you could do, but that is probably the best way to try to trap someone. Probably won't work. |
Louise Antwoord
Broken Wheel Mercantile and Trading Company
Illusion of Solitude
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Just remove local ! |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
381
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Step 1: add you as a contact on watchlist to know when you are usually only.
Step 2: run locator agents to know what systems you pve in.
Step 3: monitor the evemap statistics in that area to see when the vest time to sneak a force in is.
Step 4: sneak in a known pve haunt when you are offline with combat ships and some good probers.
Step 5: log off, go play on alt accounts that have you on their watch list.
Step 6: whenever you log in, run locator agents.
Step 7: once you seem to busy with pve, send Convo invite as distraction, log in and attempt to trap you.
Optional steps, try to sneak some drag bubbles in.
Not sure what else you could do, but that is probably the best way to try to trap someone. Probably won't work.
The hunter can also keep pushing and trying to get the prey. After some time, there is bound to be a misstake done opening a window to get the target. |
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1344
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:Should someone have a chance to tackle a PvE'r that is doing everything right?
Sure he should have a chance... All the chances you give him. If you're feeling stingy, and keep on doing things 'right,' well... Maybe he should try something different.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Untanas Volmyr
Running with Knives
Nexus Fleet
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
If pre-emptive tactical preparations can be planned out as precisely as yours. Then I would think that is why they cannot track you. Chess is a simple game. and has its limitations. If you know what to do as well as what not to do. The complexity of the challenge is what thrills many players. Me included. However to become so sure of your tactical wits protecting you from every scenario you could come up with. You may as well taunt your opponent until they flip the table over and claim its broken. |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
752
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Untanas Volmyr wrote:Chess is a simple game. and has its limitations.
It may have limitations, but that **** ain't simple.
Thread Prediction: Sidetrack into full "remove local / LOCAL IS FINE" by page 4.
I'm Denzel Washington. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
386
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 19:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
You've covered all the important safety measures used in null there. I'd be extremely surprised if someone not blue were able to get you.
Good old life in the blue donut huh? 
Still waiting on them removal local for null, that would be sweet.
Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 19:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nuela wrote:
Should a predator be able to catch prey in Eve where the Prey is doing everything in his/her power to not be caught or should the Prey have to make a mistake or not be fully cautious?
Deaths are always going to be a result of a mistake made by the defender. Even if it comes down to something as simple as "you undocked".
|
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate
Hashashin Cartel
363
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 19:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
How did they fail at getting an alt in to awox you? Failed to get into the alliance or got an alt into the alliance and failed to blow you up? Either way, they should have been able to achieve at least that, they obviously weren't trying hard enough.
Or better yet, as someone else said, just afk cloak your PVE systems to prevent you from your null bearing. That would do you more damage than anything else I'm sure. I doubt you'd enjoy spending all of your game time floating at a POS.
Long story short, they should not have succeeded against you. You were trying harder.
I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1903
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 19:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
If they were truly determined, they would have probed out your safespots and bubbled them, and already caught you. Eve favors the more prepared pilots.
You're winning, keep it up.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
419
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 20:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Louise Antwoord wrote:Just remove local !
This wouldn't really change anything. The OP would just have to do their PvE the way players do in a wormhole. Instead of having the local chat window front and center, they would have the d-scan window front and center. Instead of warping out as soon as an unfamiliar name appears in local, OP would warp out when an unfamiliar ship appears on d-scan.
And the only thing that makes d-scan less "free" than local is having to spam the scan button.
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Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Polarized.
677
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 20:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Erik Kaassan wrote:Rek Seven wrote:He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you. So they should be punished for using a game provided resource to get a leg up on potential predators? Did I get redirected to the World of Warcrap forums?
No of course people shouldn't be punished for playing the game within the rules but the real question is; is a free and instant intel gathering tool (local) a good game mechanic?
Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
Polarized.
677
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 20:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Louise Antwoord wrote:Just remove local ! This wouldn't really change anything. The OP would just have to do their PvE the way players do in a wormhole. Instead of having the local chat window front and center, they would have the d-scan window front and center. Instead of warping out as soon as an unfamiliar name appears in local, OP would warp out when an unfamiliar ship appears on d-scan. And the only thing that makes d-scan less "free" than local is having to spam the scan button.
Yeah but the difference is that the OP would be actively doing something to gather intel. Plus, the range of D-scan is limited to 14AU and you can't see cloaked ships on D.
I don't think local should be removed but it should be changed in a way that involved a players active participation.
Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
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