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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4621
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 14:50:00 -
[91] - Quote
Erik Kaassan wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Erik Kaassan wrote:Rek Seven wrote:He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you. So they should be punished for using a game provided resource to get a leg up on potential predators? Did I get redirected to the World of Warcrap forums? No of course people shouldn't be punished for playing the game within the rules but the real question is; is a free and instant intel gathering tool (local) a good game mechanic? It's not a game mechanic at all. It's an unintended consequence of an otherwise normal function. How does that make it not a game mechanic? Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 15:28:00 -
[92] - Quote
In answer to the OP, you did everything right, my feeling is that if you do everything correct you should get away, simple as that.
WH's are not a good example to use to make a case for no local, because in WH's you do not have hot drops, if you ignore that then you are a complete and uttter idiot.
Even without local people could AFK cloaky camp, if you look at the map details you can see the number of people in system and in station, so all you have to do is check how many blues and then compare, easy that, oh we have someone in system, but what does that mean, more sitting around doing nothing until people find that out due to the number of AFK people. So we can spend longer not playing the game...
At the end of the day I could live without local, however the issue is that the map data and Dotlan gives people a quick way to find activity, free intel like local, so they do not have to send scouts to find people, if you classify local as free intel then what about that data, if you ignore that then you are a hyprocrite gank bear looking for easy kills.
And James Amril-Kesh is so very correct in all his replies, the reward will have to go up by a huge margin as the risk is just too great.
The impact would be that even more people would just head back to HS, which is not a good thing... If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that!-á-á-á-á-á-á-á There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it. |
Jarod Garamonde
Action Bastards
29
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 20:31:00 -
[93] - Quote
Nuela wrote:Not sure how to explain this so let me explain by a story of what happened to me a few days ago.
I belong to an alliance in Null. I do the majority of my isk-making/PvE there. When you do this in Null, there are things you need to do:
- I keep the Intelligence channel open so I can 'see' bad guys coming before they even reach me. - I have local disconnected from chat and set up right in the MIDDLE of my screen so I am constantly looking at it. This way I can see any non-blue coming into local within seconds. - I only run PvE in systems where there are friendly POS's to warp to. In addition, I have several, nicely placed far-apart safe spots. - I am constantly running full speed and aligned. I can warp out instantly. - When a blue comes into my area and I don't recognise the name as someone a know WELL, I warp off.
So, anyway, There was a particular couple fo guys (non-blue) who I must have offended with my big, smartass mouth and they tried to get me. I didn't really know this at the time - just knew that neuts were around more often. A few days ago I get a convo invite from a nuet and he proceeds to complain bitterly that Eve was 'broken', wrong etc etc etc because a friend of his and him have tried to get me for days. They tried everything he said...even getting an alt into the alliance and try to Awox me.
His point was that Eve should be set up so he had a chance to nab me...even though I was 100% prepared at all times when I PvE'd.
Well, maybe he has a point? I don't think so but maybe? Curious as to what others think.
The main thing that made me decide he probably doesn't have a point is if he should have a chance to nab me even though I took all precautions...shouldn't I have a chance to nab him as well when he is trying to nab me? Even though he is doing all the right things, cloaking, etc shouldn't I have a chance to get him in a way he can do nothing about or should it only apply to PvE'ers?
He's just whining because he feels self-entitled.
When a PvE'er gives me the slip, I feel a little let down... but I'm usually impressed by their situational awareness. If you're the only valid target, I might still chase you until one of us makes a mistake... but usually I'll just move on. I don't do a lot of solo hunting, though.
This guy that tried to dead you sounds like a b****. I think he needs to grow some spaceballs, and stop taking EVE seriously. If I am logged onto TQ, I'm probably drunk. You've been warned. |
Jarod Garamonde
Action Bastards
29
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 20:34:00 -
[94] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:In answer to the OP, you did everything right, my feeling is that if you do everything correct you should get away, simple as that.
WH's are not a good example to use to make a case for no local, because in WH's you do not have hot drops, if you ignore that then you are a complete and uttter idiot.
Even without local people could AFK cloaky camp, if you look at the map details you can see the number of people in system and in station, so all you have to do is check how many blues and then compare, easy that, oh we have someone in system, but what does that mean, more sitting around doing nothing until people find that out due to the number of AFK people. So we can spend longer not playing the game...
At the end of the day I could live without local, however the issue is that the map data and Dotlan gives people a quick way to find activity, free intel like local, so they do not have to send scouts to find people, if you classify local as free intel then what about that data, if you ignore that then you are a hyprocrite gank bear looking for easy kills.
And James Amril-Kesh is so very correct in all his replies, the reward will have to go up by a huge margin as the risk is just too great.
The impact would be that even more people would just head back to HS, which is not a good thing...
You and I both know that Blues in system does not mean someone will come to help you. Most of the time, everyone heads for station, when reds and neuts enter system... that's what made me hate null the last time I was out there. What's the point of being in nullsec space, if you don't want to fight? If I am logged onto TQ, I'm probably drunk. You've been warned. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4622
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 23:02:00 -
[95] - Quote
I'm generally on top of my game when I'm ratting, but sometimes my attention slips up. Several months ago I was ratting and for a few minutes didn't pay attention to local as much as I should have been.
And then I saw a neutral Talos landing on grid. Luckily he landed roughly 30 km away from me and I had time to warp out before he closed within point range. I suppose I could have chased him off or killed him, being heavily tanked for kinetic and thermal damage, but I didn't want to take the chance that he had a cyno fit instead of an 8th gun.
So local isn't exactly some perfect tool that keeps you safe all the time. It requires some degree of effort. It's more difficult to pay continuous attention to it for several hours on end than you might think. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Erik Kaassan
Black Sun Brethren
26
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Erik Kaassan wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Erik Kaassan wrote:Rek Seven wrote:He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you. So they should be punished for using a game provided resource to get a leg up on potential predators? Did I get redirected to the World of Warcrap forums? No of course people shouldn't be punished for playing the game within the rules but the real question is; is a free and instant intel gathering tool (local) a good game mechanic? It's not a game mechanic at all. It's an unintended consequence of an otherwise normal function. How does that make it not a game mechanic?
Perhaps i should rephrase that... it is a creative use of a game mechanic to achieve a goal other than its intended use. It can be likewise be circumvented to prevent it from being used in that manner. It does not fall outside of the game and violate any standing rules if it is used in a way other than it is intended to be used. Why should it be fixed when its not even broken? |
Ammzi
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
1340
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:22:00 -
[97] - Quote
They could just have awoxed you with a bomber - you would not be prepared. He didn't try hard enough. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:22:00 -
[98] - Quote
Personally, the OP's multiple uses of the word "nab" has some how awakend my sexual interest in my girl friend.
Later.... |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
904
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:33:00 -
[99] - Quote
To give some contrast to the example in the OP, when I'm prowling for ratters to gank, I can jump into a system, get my system scanner running, and during those 10 seconds determine what ranges any ratters on my d-scanner are at, compare those to the results from my system scanner, and be in warp to the anomaly a ratter is in less than 15 seconds after jumping into the system. Without resorting to tactics like awoxing, it is as right as you can possibly get when it comes to ganking. Nevertheless, between those 12-15 seconds to locate a target and the 10-15 seconds required for even a very short (<1AU) warp, he's long gone...because he's got a minimum twenty second head start in which to be "right". That same head start means that the PvEr doesn't even have to do everything right to escape - he can be slow and sloppy and still get away.
Food for thought Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
534
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:41:00 -
[100] - Quote
With as much effort as they put in, you'd think that camping out for a few days with stealth bombers to push you out of comfortable systems wouldn't have been too much work.
I guess they just didn't want it badly enough. http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
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SpoonRECKLESS
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:49:00 -
[101] - Quote
I never get mad at a player who watches for probes in low sec, Watches local if hes smart and gets out good job I won't cry. I will ask him nicely not to warp out of that lvl 4 hes running in that low sec tho. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
3482
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:56:00 -
[102] - Quote
mynnna wrote:To give some contrast to the example in the OP, when I'm prowling for ratters to gank, I can jump into a system, get my system scanner running, and during those 10 seconds determine what ranges any ratters on my d-scanner are at, compare those to the results from my system scanner, and be in warp to the anomaly a ratter is in less than 15 seconds after jumping into the system. Without resorting to tactics like awoxing, it is as right as you can possibly get when it comes to ganking. Nevertheless, between those 12-15 seconds to locate a target and the 10-15 seconds required for even a very short (<1AU) warp, he's long gone...because he's got a minimum twenty second head start in which to be "right". That same head start means that the PvEr doesn't even have to do everything right to escape - he can be slow and sloppy and still get away. Food for thought Exactly. The PvE player does not have to scan down the safe POS or the station or even the safe spot. It is just a simple right click, select *safety* and they are gone. And most of the time they have done that long before you have even jumped into system due to the hunter being reported in intel channels.
Now if fitting and tactics used to PvE were closer to what is found in actual PvP, then if they were caught they might actually stand a chance.
Still, this is only one of the issues. Another is local - the cancer of this game.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
319
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:09:00 -
[103] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:Tell him:
Well I wasn't 100% prepared, as I left myself vulnerable to receiving your whiny ass convo, so there you go, you got me, with words at least. If your tears were a weapon they'd be a snowball CXV, doing negative damage, but damage nonetheless.
Congrats.
Won't happen again, as you're now on /ignore.
This is a good point. While I was reading the OP, I was waiting for the convo to be a distraction for a point to get landed. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
577
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:25:00 -
[104] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote: Still, this is only one of the issues. Another is local - the cancer of this game.
Local. The only reason that more than 3% of the population lives outside highsec.
Remove local, watch as low and null empty.
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