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SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.07.30 16:22:00 - [1] In the next patch I think you should eliminate the availibility of clones for players that have exceeded a specified negative security rating so that when they die that character will die also. It would add realism to the game. Having been killed recently for the first time I realized that posting a bounty would be pretty ineffective because they could just get a friend of theirs to kill them, collect the bounty and then split the isk. Another scam. I think player pirates add to the game but at this point see it as a low risk occupation. If one chooses to live on the dark side then certain benifits of civilized life should be withheld from them. Cloning being a major benifit. If cloning was not availible then Player Pirates would be forced to RETRAIN a new character each time they are killed and thus be imposed a TIME penalty as well as the existing finacial penalty for choosing such an occupation. This is more closely with the process in the real world and provide a player value for posting bounties on these player pirates. I believe the EVE would be a much better game if CCP incorporated this aspect of the real world into out gaming universe. As it is now the power Player Pirates wield is still disproportionate to what a majority of players in the game are able to wield without being forced to play the game the way THEY want to play it. Why do they get to dictate??? Today its only because they are protected by the system. Take that away and the playing field becomes much more even and in the long run nore enjoyable for all. Fellow gamers SPEAK UP! WE NEED THIS CHANGE!
trap	Posted - 2003.07.30 16:23:00 - [2] Yea because so many people would keep playing this game if that was implemented. ---------------------------------------------- [ 2003.11.20 05:35:28 ] Jade Constantine > looks like you blasted the crap out of a load of our ships again
Wytch Doktor	Posted - 2003.07.30 16:27:00 - [3] I am sick of hearng that whine. I do not have the most mondo juiced rig in the world, and I have CTD twice since i started playing like 6 weeks ago.
Endyl	Posted - 2003.07.30 16:44:00 - [4] Completely unrealist. At the edge of trolling.
Setec	Posted - 2003.07.30 17:14:00 - [5] Edited by: Setec on 30/07/2003 17:20:58 Edited by: Setec on 30/07/2003 17:13:59 Shut up you goddamn carebear twit. You know NOTHING. I'm sick of writing long polite responses to the zillions of retarded knowitall miners who think pirating is too easy and they need to nerf us even more. Player piracy is BY FAR the highest risk occupation in Eve. Nothing even comes close to comparing, except for player bounty hunting which doesn't even really exist as an occupation at the moment. Mining, trading, and NPC-hunting are all vastly, vastly, incomparably easier and lower-risk than pirating. The reason you disagree is that you know nothing about player pirating and you are a stupid person. You're making groundless speculation and you damn well know it. You wouldn't last half a week as a pirate. Go back to your goddamn asteroids and stop pretending your opinions deserve to be heard. ___________________________________________ Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net
eriq	Posted - 2003.07.30 17:23:00 - [6] the answer to pks is not so rash as that. the key is there must be consequences for pk actions. right now there isn't any way to force a pk to fight on any terms if they don't want to, so they can camp wherever they choose and run whenever they choose. no consequences. the problem is instituting a system for reducing the ability for pk's to run without imbalancing the game by making it impossible for anyone to avoid pks. it's a very delicate balance, i don't know if the next patch will be a step in the right direction or the wrong one but it sounds interesting.
Ellyris	Posted - 2003.07.30 17:28:00 - [7] Hopefully the upcoming changes that will block them running will add a bit of genuine risk to their plight (not just for the newbie pirates who haven't learned the escape routes) ... but for realism the penalties for offences should increase with the number of offences ... kill 1 player in a month because of a feud, no biggie ... kill 30 players in a day out of boredom, get gunned down by multiple police battleships for mass-murder.
Qual	Posted - 2003.07.30 17:44:00 - [8] I have said this before. WHat they need to do is implement it the way they first intended. Whenever you die you loose a set % of ALL your skill points. For a low grade clone this might be 25% for a high grade as low as perhaps 3 or 4 %. But it would ensure that death was something to be avoided. By ALL players. Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department
Klydor	Posted - 2003.07.30 17:48:00 - [9] I agree with the % loss of skill points. OR clones get more expensive the more you die. Like insurance would be more expensive the more you crash your car. (prob not the best idea though) OR Clones are not allowed for pirates in civvy space. They have to buy them from the underworld traders out on the edge of space. With either an increase in cost, or cheaper clones but a chance that the clone is substandard and will lose more skill points on death.
Glowing Star	Posted - 2003.07.30 18:47:00 - [10] clones should at least cost the normal cost + the amount the pirate was bountied for so that they cant make money from the bounty on them...
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.07.30 18:53:00 - [11] Setec - I believe your other rep was clear enough and succinct enough for 99% of the people: "Yea because so many people would keep playing this game if that was implemented." no more really need be said.
Archain	Posted - 2003.07.30 19:01:00 - [12] Quote: Yea because so many people would keep playing this game if that was implemented. Nicely stated Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
Lithorus	Posted - 2003.07.30 20:44:00 - [13] I like tha idea, it reminds me of Lineage where there is a good/bad system much like the sec rating. If you're chaotic/bad you have the chance of loosing items when you gets killed, but if you're lawfull/good above a certain level you have no risk of loosing items, although you will still loose exp.
Synapse Archae	Posted - 2003.07.30 21:40:00 - [14] I think its perfect as it is. Outside the high sec systems pirates can do whatever the hell they want, and they should, and its your ass on the line not theirs if you go out there. Thats just perfect. The two things this setup needs, and what makes it seem unbalanced IN THE MINERS favour, is that there is ont reason to go to low sec space unless you are seeking pirates, or mining really rare ore, in which case you can deal with it already. Otherwise the money is fine in high sec space. The two things which will balance this setup in my opinion are: 1) Bounty Hunting tools, so players can hunt pirates and having a high bounty actually becomes somethign to worry about. 2) Actual bonuses in low sec space like stations that will buy items at better prices, and items for sale that are rare, and agent missions that give good payouts. That will give pirates something worth hunting. --------------------------------------------- [/IMG]http://millerfam.org/eve/synapse_logo.jpg[/IMG] Everyone deserves a chance to live. My job is to make sure they get it.
Drutort	Posted - 2003.07.30 22:26:00 - [15] no simple the pirates should get agents that have blackmarket and they can offer them places to get close that is in NONE empire space or very very low sec zones.... i dont care if they have clones but there life should not be the same of the good ppl you want to be a bad guy well so be it... but you should be able to walk in and by insurance and a clone as a good person. make faction/standings be a factor too, if maybe pirates get good standing with some other corp and that npc corp has clones well they can go and get the clones etc... more work for hte pirates but hey thats what they have to pay for b eing bad support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Vicky	Posted - 2003.07.31 02:02:00 - [16] Quote: clones should at least cost the normal cost + the amount the pirate was bountied for so that they cant make money from the bounty on them... yes yes this would be a very good solution to the problem
colla tidet	Posted - 2003.07.31 02:29:00 - [17] all the silly LITTLE problems would be solved with the flicking of the switch. turn on the standings. even if the other aspects(trade, blackmarket, content) of the game are not ready let the gates, stations, ccp, and navy do the work (in other words throw some s - - t in the game). "Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
Nirvy	Posted - 2003.07.31 11:55:00 - [18] Leave the Pirates be, it adds excitement to the game. Learn to use the map to show Poddings and ship kills. If you can afford to lose a ship, dont go to space where you could possibly lose it. I lost 2 cruisers to Mo0 and one to the Gang, and i can definitely say im a lot smarter about where i fly, what i equip and learnt when to get the hell outta there. Sure some are ******s..but so are people in life ;) i mean..cmon there are how many 1.0 systems for you to safely go about your buisness in. I would be more worried about those silly alliances that claim whole regions as their own and kill anyone entering them..im still struggling to see how these corps are different to pirates ;) Mercenary \| The Azath**
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.31 11:58:00 - [19] Oh my god. Some more risk? yeah, sure, heap it on. nothing better than practically losing everything in your account, bar the isk, just because you CTD'd in the wrong place. The only solution I found is a global one. ie. not one that specifically targets a group of players who make you life difficult... make a stock clone only restore 94% of your points, and have a skill that will bump this up 1% per level, but keeping it below 100%. There must be some loss. Podding atm ain't ***. After I lost a ship last night, I ran off in my pod, only to wonder why, and self-destructed at the gate, to get back to my clone station. I'd rather lose my pod than anything out of my low slots. with the 99% cap, this would no longer be the case, and holding someone's pod at ransom would actually be worth some money.... If I lost 1% of my skill points, it would take around 24 hours to get it back to where I was. That is punishment enough for some. (on top of the ship loss, ofc) But it has to apply to EVERYONE*. None of this weak-ass 'put more restrictions on the pirates, whiny, no-good, yadda yadda'. It's getting a little long in the tooth. And because it's never the truely clever players that make these daft ideas up, you cannot guarantee that any level of bluntness/clarity will get through to ones that do. .
Nirvy	Posted - 2003.07.31 12:10:00 - [20] Edited by: Nirvy on 31/07/2003 12:11:43 Not a bad idea Drunken. Maybe it would be better just to lose one random level of any skill when you get podded. This means for the Uber players it could take a week to recover, but for the n00bs it could be a few hours. And Yea it has to apply to everyone. I mean it says on the frikken box you can be a pirate :P not play as "bubba" in the local jail bending over for some soap! Mercenary \| The Azath
Von Thoma	Posted - 2003.07.31 12:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Von Thoma on 31/07/2003 12:50:45 I agree fully with that of the last writer ... Yes if you are going to deal with fighting it should have some risk ... AND IT SHOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE TO COVER IT WITH ISK ... For Mega Corps. and PK Money is nothing they have so much they didn't even care. So I would prefer some sort like : THE BIGGER YOUR SHIP IS THE MORE % you should loose ... say because of the huge explosion and that the last transmission to the clonestation about your ACTUAL stats and attributes have been disturbed until you DOCK to the next Spacestation with your RESCUE POD, where the update could be done. All ships have Transmission Devices to send your DATA of your Skillpoints to the Cloning Station (if the Clone is too small, you even loss of course more, but at least the minimum value), except RESCUE PODS. So it counts always, which ship you EJECT LAST,CHANGED FROM or EXPLODED WITH, when you are killed in your POD. YOU have been in an IBIS loose 1% ( + 1% if you have more than 1 000 000 SP ... the transmission computer is too slow to handle that amount of data) YOU have been in a SHUTTLE loose 1% ( + 1% if you have more than 1 000 000 SP ... the transmission computer is too slow to handle that amount of data) YOU have been in a FRIGATE loose 2% YOU have been in a INDI loose 3% YOU have been in a CRUISER loose 4% YOU have been in a BATTLESHIP loose 6% YOU have been in a TITAN loose 8% and so on ... So be careful in your big ship, but it was always fun to blast this small ships ... And this shouldn't be able to be changed with money or skill ... So if you get killed too often in your Battleship, you have to learn it again to fly with it :-) ... go back to school No really now PK and killing others is without risk, you could loose only money, but this money you already have collected yourself 10x before you have to replace maybe yours ship. And yes also the bounty makes now more sense, I think people will than not allow that a friend kill them even in an IBIS ... CCP should test which values are the best, but I think it should be changed to this ... atm it is boring and makes no sense apart of money ... BUT OF COURSE FOR ALL PLAYERS !!!
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.31 12:42:00 - [22] Edited by: drunkenmaster on 31/07/2003 12:45:17 Quote: Edited by: Nirvy on 31/07/2003 12:11:43 Not a bad idea Drunken. Maybe it would be better just to lose one random level of any skill when you get podded. This means for the Uber players it could take a week to recover, but for the n00bs it could be a few hours. And Yea it has to apply to everyone. I mean it says on the frikken box you can be a pirate :P not play as "bubba" in the local jail bending over for some soap! a 1% loss would do exactly that. I (1.8m SP) would lose 18k SP (18-20 hours) while a 300k SP newbie will only lose 3k (2-4 hours). still, my main point is that ideas like this should apply to all, not just the pirates/PK'ers. Also, in regards to the guy above me - 8% is far, far too much. At my level that's over a week of training. And as far as the bounties go, I'm not aware of anyone who would have themselves podded just for a couple of million. You can earn that in a couple of hours doing just about anything (as long as you do it well). .
Koinski	Posted - 2003.07.31 14:09:00 - [23] From a RP point of view its perfectly acceptable that there are ways of pirates to have their clones. After IIRC there was even some background story about the shady side of clone manufacturing. As for insurance, the most reasonable implementation would be making it more expensive for those who die more. But it would have to be a permanent insurance, not weekly, or else make a cheaper fee. From an insurance company perspective, there is no diference between a soldier or a pirate. They are both high risk clients. It bothers me more that high sec rating pirates dont get a security hit by killing in 0.0. If Concord issues an e-mail reporting the killing then they should act accordigly in regards to the pilot sec rating.
Blivius	Posted - 2003.07.31 17:56:00 - [24] Setec, You need to lighten up on all the miner bashing. The original poster nowhere said he was a miner. I think his idea is stupid as hell as well, but for some reason you have to spew all this carebear miner hate and insult all the miners in the game. Gettin old dude. And since you like name calling, how about I call you a RedTrammyGankingNoSkillGimp.
SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.07.31 19:19:00 - [25] Edited by: SUNchaser on 31/07/2003 19:22:33 Black market clones for pirates could work as long as the price was high enough. But there has to be a penalty for rejecting civlized behavior and currently there is none for Player Killers. In real society those who operate under their own set of criminal rules, when caught pay a time cost by imprisonment. Losing skills would equate to that same time penalty. And I do understand that the only real people against this idea would be those that SUPPORT player killers. This game isn't totally about killing other players and if something isn't done to put their power in check they will ruin the game. I was just attacked in a 1.0 system by a PK with a -9.7 sec rating. Retailiation I imagine for posting this idea. Changes were susposed to have been made a couple of patches ago to prevent them from bringing their lawless behavior to any area of the game they choose. Well it isn't working and something needs to be done to allow those who want to do something other than KILL play this game. Im sure there are always gonna be the losers that enjoy killing unsuspecting players. When players of equal strength come calling PK run like the yellow cowards they truely are. All this crap about HOW tough they have it is pure immature BS. They are can't figure out the game so they just gang up and try and ruin someone else's fun to get their jollies.
Crepiscule	Posted - 2003.07.31 21:39:00 - [26] SUNChaser, I think I can speak for most pirates, pkers whatever label you wish to call us and say. Blow it out your porthole! I'm so friggin sick of these posts by people who have absolutely no clue on the difficulties on having low sec status and trying to pirate for a living. If anything needs to change, it's these 1 million dollar 9 jump trade routes. Either that our send them and their cargo out into non empire space where there is some risk.
Fusco T	Posted - 2003.07.31 22:22:00 - [27] Actually only lazy pirates have it hard. Those that pirate and keep their sec rating up are just fine. Setec tried other aspects of eve for like a week then went off pirating and now is the ULTIMATE authority on everything. Interestingly enough he complains of the same thing he bashes. He tried trading and mining early on when very little Pking was going on. Now as a pirate he simply refuses to acknowledge that being pirate bait is equally as dangerous and bounty hunting is soooo dangerous just about nobody does it. In this game you will lose stuff to bugs or not having used some sort of precaution. If you are smart and know when to run you will survive 99% of your encounters pirate or victim no matter. Pirates that think pirating is dangerous work simply do not follow their own advice of being carfeul, using local chat etc... Bugs happen to everyone so that is no arguement. The clone cost needs to be implemented so that bounties can't be scammed. Before you even respond setec, crep it has to be implemented because the POTENTIAL for scam exists not because YOU think pirates wouldn't use the scam. BTW Don't let setec get to you, he is so dilluded in self righteous egocentricity that he actaully has no actual ability to see from others viewpoints so gets mad when people don't agree with him. As for auto skill loss when you die no matter what. I'd be the first to leave the game. I use eve as an escape from the tedium of RL. To force tedium of re-equipping AND re-learning every time would make me go play something else.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2003.07.31 22:32:00 - [28] Uh.. let's see, when you die in Eve you lose your.. a) Ship b) Equipment c) Clone Add it up, you can easily lose over 100 million ISK from one death, and now you want to add MORE PENALTIES TO DYING? Why not just make Eve format your PC when you die? Just for the final kick in your ass. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Fusco T	Posted - 2003.07.31 22:48:00 - [29] LOL Raynor you know that's next right? Damn I laughed hard at that last sentance. Dude where's my OS.
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.08.01 00:44:00 - [30] Yea...dieing is really...harsh o_0. Good for me that i havnt even lost a ship since retail then . __________________________________________________________
SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.08.01 00:44:00 - [31] The risk for reward is out of wack with PK. NO risk because the attack the unsuspecting, the weak and those that are significantly outnumbered. In a fair fight is a term to use because if it even hints at being fair(skill vs skill) PK's run like hell. A graduated system could be put in place, like losing 10% of skills for every rating point a PK is below a predetermined number. What many of the so called "elite" PK seem to forget is that for the players who started at the very beginning ccp was dumping many more resources into the game and you had no PK to worry about. A new layer today is coming into a game enviorment different from the one that many of your "elite" players started in. Lastly I don't think you have the right to FORCE your opinion regarding what this game is about as you currently are able to. I am advocating change to allow my perception of what is enjoyable in this game to exist at the same time as yours. But you have already demonstrated that you have no consideration for the desires of others by your chosen profession in this game, you are a coward and nothing more.
ga'ia	Posted - 2003.08.01 00:50:00 - [32] Edited by: ga'ia on 01/08/2003 00:51:01 Quote: The risk for reward is out of wack with PK. NO risk because the attack the unsuspecting, the weak and those that are significantly outnumbered. In a fair fight is a term to use because if it even hints at being fair(skill vs skill) PK's run like hell. A graduated system could be put in place, like losing 10% of skills for every rating point a PK is below a predetermined number. What many of the so called "elite" PK seem to forget is that for the players who started at the very beginning ccp was dumping many more resources into the game and you had no PK to worry about. A new layer today is coming into a game enviorment different from the one that many of your "elite" players started in. Lastly I don't think you have the right to FORCE your opinion regarding what this game is about as you currently are able to. I am advocating change to allow my perception of what is enjoyable in this game to exist at the same time as yours. But you have already demonstrated that you have no consideration for the desires of others by your chosen profession in this game, you are a coward and nothing more. It¦s nothing wrong with the actually PK, as in wars... But it is kind lame to camp gates then just jump when it gets to much for ya to handle, hopefully a future patch will change that. __________________________________________________________
Crepiscule	Posted - 2003.08.01 01:31:00 - [33] Quote: In a fair fight is a term to use because if it even hints at being fair(skill vs skill) PK's run like hell. Lastly I don't think you have the right to FORCE your opinion regarding what this game is about as you currently are able to. Sorry Sun, wrong again. I've fought many battles where we were outnumbered and won, and I've fought in some where we had more numbers. Gate jumping, hmm maybe did it once to lure them into another system where we had reinforcements. Wrong again. Your broad generalization of pirates and people who like to PvP is what is wrong with the game. You seem to think that we are the ones forcing our vision of what the game is when in fact it is quite the opposite. All these major changes have be a result of people too damn scared or lazy to take care of the problem them selves. You kick us to non-empire space yet still we survive. You place guns at every jumpgate, and still we survive. With every complaint our wrath will grow and your chances of talking your way out of a pod lessons. If you're looking for a fair fight or even odds, go play a board game. If you think corp wars are fair perhaps you should speak with someone from RUS or SA. I very much doubt that they asked ahead of time how many ships the other was bringing to the table to make sure it was "fair". It's time you stepped out of your bubble and realized that nothing in life is fair. You have to work, claw, and sweat to achieve in life. If you want handouts get in line with the other homeless, crazy and drug addicts looking for a free meal or holding a sign on the side of the road. I applaud anyone who actually takes the initiative to gather a force and bust up blockades instead of coming here to complain that once again "Pirates", the root of all evil have caused you to use that little bit of gray matter between your ears. Have a nice day
SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.08.01 09:08:00 - [34] Edited by: SUNchaser on 01/08/2003 09:19:09 Well this post wasn't put up so PK'ers could whine about how misunderstood they are. Most players understand them just fine. Seems they(PK'ers) are the ones who don't have a clue about themselves. To CCP there is nothing wrong with having PK players in the game. It should be the highest risk occupation. With risk comes great reward or great cost. The reward is there but not the cost. Several people have made a positive suggestion regarding possible "corrections" to the over balance in the game. The trade channel is far and away one of the more interesting aspects of this game but IF a player can't run his industrial ships in 1.0 space then trade is essentially going to grind to a stop..after all its pretty difficult to carry a significant quantity of merchandise in a battleship and thats what the PK'ers are wading in with to attack trade ships with now. The real problen I have with PK's isn't with the people chosing that role its the lack of balance the game has in regard to what they are out doing to other players. In america the "gangster" is romanticized. In reality they life in the fast lane but rarely live to collect social security. Society has little tolerance for them in reality. The people I've talk with while in game none seems to have a use for the PK. If you can't keep them out of secured space put an incentive out there for players to deal with it themselves. The number one reason players have told me they don't bother with them anymore is that even killing them doesn't really accomplish anything and thus they are just wasting their time when there are other things they would rather do while in game. to quote another player(who replied to this same topic i posted under another forum) who summed up the problem much better than I seem to have be able to: "It has come to my attention that this game that is supposed to be dynamic and ever changing is growing static at least where established PC pirates and others are concerned. Between insurance and clones they are all but immortal. Mean while newer players are faced with sometimes major set backs when killed by these immortals. Plus if you do manage to get strong enough to fight them it just turns into an endless circle of fighting" Its that endless circle of fighting. For those who want to do nothing else, thats ok but you shouldn't be able to do that anywhere you please. This is a big game and there is more than enough room for all of us to have fun playing the game.
WolfA4	Posted - 2003.08.01 09:53:00 - [35] I think the only thing needed to be done to pirating is to make bounty hunting actually possible as a career. its pretty damn hard to be a bounty hunter right now. I believe that if bounty hunting was made viable it would keep the pirate population in balance with the rest of the population.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.01 10:09:00 - [36] Quote: I think the only thing needed to be done to pirating is to make bounty hunting actually possible as a career. its pretty damn hard to be a bounty hunter right now. I believe that if bounty hunting was made viable it would keep the pirate population in balance with the rest of the population. Maybe, but any means the bounty hunter will use against the pirates, the pirates will use on the 'innocent'. That's what makes it so difficult to balance. .
WolfA4	Posted - 2003.08.01 13:30:00 - [37] Edited by: WolfA4 on 01/08/2003 20:15:21 Quote: Quote: I think the only thing needed to be done to pirating is to make bounty hunting actually possible as a career. its pretty damn hard to be a bounty hunter right now. I believe that if bounty hunting was made viable it would keep the pirate population in balance with the rest of the population. Maybe, but any means the bounty hunter will use against the pirates, the pirates will use on the 'innocent'. That's what makes it so difficult to balance. maybe if the bounty hunting skill required you to have a certain security rating with concord or what ever faction you choose, it could keep the bounty hunting abilities set on hunting pirates and not the innocent. last night i was thinking as an addition to my previous thoughts on bounty hunting abilities (found here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=22985 ) but also a limited tracking abilitie making the hunter able to see a faint ion trail of his target ship and over time 2-3 minutes have it fade away so that he can only use this skill if hes really close to his prey.
Quantum Gopher	Posted - 2003.08.01 18:39:00 - [38] Bounty hunting...hmm... How about a scanner that reports the location (lets you warp to them) of negative security pilots in controlled space on a per sector basis (patrols anyone?). If you are safe in attacking the pilot, the scanner will report it as such. This could bypass the gate lockout feature by being the agressor since the bounty hunter would be providing a "community service", that of apprehending/destroying the criminal element. The unfortunate result of this would be that anyone with a negative security rating for any reason could be a potential target. Then again, being a pirate these days doesn't always mean having a negative rating. Perhpas unsanctioned PKing could result in an automatic negative rating instead of an incremental drop. These are just some thoughts anyway. The idea being to empower human players to take the place of Concord and use their own judgement of the situation. Q. Gopher __________ I know...it's only ROCK and roll, but I like it!!
SUNchaser	Posted - 2003.08.01 18:40:00 - [39] Drunken such an empty threat because PK are already doing to the innocent. I agree completely Wolf. The true intent of my proposal was to provide an incentive for players to hunt PK's. The bounty system doesn't work(the individual who took me out sec rate -9.7 bounty 150K) so I thought that there are players who would enjoy doing to PK's as PK's so enjoy doing to the defenseless. Losing skill points would equate to knocking these players down a peg or two. I strongly believe that what PK's are concerned about isn't the loss of skill points BUT rather they would truely become the hunted. I do UNDERSTAND completely how playing wouldn't be as much fun for PK's if all of a sudden other players were doing to them what they have become so skilled at doing to others. But fair is fair.
Ulstan	Posted - 2003.08.01 22:58:00 - [40] " The true intent of my proposal was to provide an incentive for players to hunt PK's." It's already biased in favor of killing low sec pirates. For killing an innocent player, a pirate gets: - equipment(usually crap) - a sec hit penalty - no bounty For killing a low sec pk, a player gets - Some of the best equipment - no sec hit - whatever bounty is on the pirate And clearly, having permadeath will not attract any players whatsoever. ;) I do think your suggestion to tie in faction with corporations to clone availability is a good one, however.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.08.01 23:35:00 - [41] Kay, I don't know which furbearer started the urban legend but most definately it was a furbearer. No self-respecting pirate would ever off himself to collect the bounty. Even on my worst days with barely 2 isk to rub together, my rank on the bounty ladder was far more important than the isk. And that's what the furbearers don't get. Even the ones that might go into just to griefer others like seeing their name at the top. 20m isk isn't worth getting removed from up there. 200m isk? Might start tempting a few. But the true pirates would love to see just how long they'd last with that price on their head. Stop judging pirates by what you see in yourself: cowardice. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Amicus	Posted - 2003.08.02 00:47:00 - [42] Edited by: Amicus on 02/08/2003 00:54:25 Edited by: Amicus on 02/08/2003 00:48:40 I agree Jash, as it stands bounties are so low most bounty-targets have little incentive to commit bounty fraud. Problem is, no intelligent person will put real money in bounties, because the risk of bounty fraud remains. If bounty-targets with less than, for example, -5 security status had to pay double the amount of their bounty for an advance clone at death, then there would be some real bite in the system and bounties would go up exponentially. Instead of 14 million isk tops, we would be talking c. 200 million. When top bounties are in the 100's millions, then bounty-hunting becomes a worthwhile profession. With a working bounty system, we could start doing away with nerfs on pirating. However, with the bounty system as is, one has to wonder if the the pirates add to their own bounties just for vanity, because only a fool would put money in a bounty now expecting it to do any harm to the target.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.02 00:53:00 - [43] sunchaser, I didn't make any threats, please don't imply that I did. basing things on security level won't really work either. My sec is currently 6.5, and I have 2 level 4 agents in Fed Customs, among about 20 other customs peons. Even with strict settings, They'd give me a licence. And why can't pirates be bounty hunters, too? it will work as far as the PK'ers are concerned, but I'm a nice guy, so I'm all sweetness and light. .
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.08.02 01:23:00 - [44] Quote: Edited by: Amicus on 02/08/2003 00:54:25 Edited by: Amicus on 02/08/2003 00:48:40 I agree Jash, as it stands bounties are so low most bounty-targets have little incentive to commit bounty fraud. Problem is, no intelligent person will put real money in bounties, because the risk of bounty fraud remains. If bounty-targets with less than, for example, -5 security status had to pay double the amount of their bounty for an advance clone at death, then there would be some real bite in the system and bounties would go up exponentially. Instead of 14 million isk tops, we would be talking c. 200 million. When top bounties are in the 100's millions, then bounty-hunting becomes a worthwhile profession. With a working bounty system, we could start doing away with nerfs on pirating. However, with the bounty system as is, one has to wonder if the the pirates add to their own bounties just for vanity, because only a fool would put money in a bounty now expecting it to do any harm to the target. Sorry, I personally believe the whole "Pirates will take their own bounties" thing to be a rumor created by the furbearers to delude themselves to why people won't spend more isk on the pirates. People know, deep down inside, that to collect a top bountied player they have to be having one of their luckiest days. So why waste the isk? Most people run in terror when they see a high bounty player and sling invectives from the safety of the nearest planet/station. If they don't have a fleet behind them, they don't even consider hunting them. Hell, won't even risk a peek. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Amicus	Posted - 2003.08.02 01:50:00 - [45] Ah yes, but even you admit Jash that 200 million isk "Might start tempting a few." And the "true griefer" as opposed to the "true pirate" will be more tempted to commit bounty fraud. With bounties in the 100's of millions, it becomes reasonable to risk a few battleships to collect the bounty on a powerful target. But until there is a guarantee that bounty collection will harm the target, I believe that bounties will remain small, bounty hunting will remain unviable as a profession, and demands for nerfs on pirating will remain numerous.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.08.02 02:05:00 - [46] Quote: Ah yes, but even you admit Jash that 200 million isk "Might start tempting a few." And the "true griefer" as opposed to the "true pirate" will be more tempted to commit bounty fraud. With bounties in the 100's of millions, it becomes reasonable to risk a few battleships to collect the bounty on a powerful target. But until there is a guarantee that bounty collection will harm the target, I believe that bounties will remain small, bounty hunting will remain unviable as a profession, and demands for nerfs on pirating will remain numerous. First of all 200m for a single person is outrageous imo. At that point, I'd begin believing people were attempting to grief the pirate. As for the griefer, how else but through his bounty would he know the amount of grief he caused? :) Top Bounty slot appeals to the best AND the worst. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
DEMON	Posted - 2003.08.02 02:47:00 - [47] Why not have player police.. make their clones free and they have the ability to track down the player pirates.. it would add another occupation to the game.. and the pirates would have a real nemesis on their hands. real ppl .. its that simple. forget the npc element as the npc aspect of this game ruins it.. its supposed to be pvp thats the whole point of an online game. npc .. well i can do that with any game offline for free.. also you people who judge the pirates life as an easy one. well remember they live together like rats in a barrel not all pirate players like each other and will attack. hmm you dont get that mining . oh you might get an npc pirate ..(uh how exiting) its not a real person on the end of the controls . WAKE UP THAT IS WHY YOU PAY TO BE ONLINE. real pirates = we must have real police. also pirates must retain the chance to clone cos then they would simply quit eve after weeks perhaps months of training .. im sure you lot would. and without the added spice of ppl like lord zap, and m3g4 corp, mo0 and the like .. without that . it would get very boring very quick. think about it . you get apprehensive about going to obe for eg. the adenalin starts to pump cos your thinkin.. will i make it.. will i get my nice new ship i worked weeks for blown away ? yes no .. hahaha i made it . without the player pirates you would not have that exitment and the trips to bad space would be simply .more jumping and more boring crudd. and you would quit the game not becuase you lost your ship. but simply cos it got boring and you would then probably go down to the shop and buy a new game where your blowing someone or something up. .. hello wake up. its a game people its not real.
Ends	Posted - 2003.08.02 05:36:00 - [48] I just want a way to be able to hunt someone down and pop them. right now pirates kill sheep and depend on being able to run in almost certain safety. Station camping and gate camping has to be eliminated. ALL characters on a certain account should be listed no hiding your actions with mules to mine with (if you want to be a pirate then BE one, take all the risks and benifits). We should have a tracking skill of some sort besides agents. When some yoink in a cruiser pops a indy then flees when anything like a fair fight shows up I want to be able to hunt them. We dont' need CCP to fix the pirates, but the players NEED to be able to execute recourse upon them.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.08.02 08:54:00 - [49] Quote: I just want a way to be able to hunt someone down and pop them. right now pirates kill sheep and depend on being able to run in almost certain safety. Station camping and gate camping has to be eliminated. ALL characters on a certain account should be listed no hiding your actions with mules to mine with (if you want to be a pirate then BE one, take all the risks and benifits). We should have a tracking skill of some sort besides agents. When some yoink in a cruiser pops a indy then flees when anything like a fair fight shows up I want to be able to hunt them. We dont' need CCP to fix the pirates, but the players NEED to be able to execute recourse upon them. I hope you were joking about showing all their alts just because one of them is a pirate or someone you don't like. That would go down like a lead humvee. The tracking tools can't only apply to pirates either. You should be able to use them on anybody. In all the thrashing about over pirates, you're neglecting to think what your changes will do to corp wars, which are the pinnacle of entertainment, and becoming more popular by the week. In a corp war you'll want to be able to put tracking devices on anyone, at any security level. You'll also need to camp gates. To many fixes to avoid piracy will have adverse effects in the future. As for the 'join police, get free clones', I like that idea. But the NPC police won't have a human recruitment officer, so it will be admission based on sec status, so there will be no keeping the pirates alts out. It would be fun though, as long as it didn't turn into a zerg fest. .

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