In this respect, I suspct that a good deal of miners who currently enjoyed their relaxing pastime (well when not being ganked) will find the game too interactive to sit there and relax.

And any players who answer in this thread "yes, I want more interactivity" are you going to personally mine because of these changes or is this just an expectation of what you think other people want?

lol

Why people pay money/grind fake money in order to not actually play a game is beyond me.

Mining draws the type of persons who don't want to bother with missions (which by most accounts is simply aggro managment). Miner's seem to enjoy playing the game with little interaction as possible. The pinacle of this aspect is found with people who ice mine which is basically targeting an ice rock, pushing a button, and then waiting 30 minutes.

These people have no interest in playing a game that requires them to push buttons every 60 secdonds. Even regular mining can be done mostly done afk.

Like I said, I don't know what most miner's do while mining. I have talked to people that actually sit there and watch the rocks, but I suspect most of them do other things while playing EVE. Things like watching Youtube or Netflix, chat on teamspeak, troll the forums, listen to music, or generally do other things. (I have been known to do homework).

Decrease all mining cycles to 15 seconds.
Decrease all mining yields to compensate.
Remove auto-repeat from mining modules.

Mining. Now with more interactivity.

That would just make it more boring than it already is.

Decrease all mining cycles to 15 seconds.
Decrease all mining yields to compensate.
Remove auto-repeat from mining modules.

Mining. Now with more interactivity.

Decrease all mining cycles to 15 seconds.
Decrease all mining yields to compensate.
Remove auto-repeat from mining modules.

Mining. Now with more interactivity.

The truth of the matter is that if mining begins to require more interaction, ore prices will go through the roof as the current miners leave the game or go do something else. In the meantime though, mining will begin attracting other kinds of players, perhaps missioners, who like interaction. Prices will then go down, but not to the point to where they were before, simply due to the fact you probably can't get as many players doing it as before, when it was an activity you could easily set and come back to some time later.

This thread should be locked for complete lack of original content.

Move on folk, moan about something different for a change.

This is an interesting variation on "Miners will quit the game if "x". Well played.

Still, ores were already fairly interactive to mine compared to ice because they were already depletable while ice wasn't.

Oh noes! Cheaper ships at the cost of slightly more expensive fuel!

Interactivity in mining will do this game some good because a higher barrier to success adds value to the profession.

Introducing!

CAPTCHA MINING!!!

the problem with mining isn't the mechanics of the activity, it's with the fact that it encourages being antisocial. interacting with other players is nothing but detrimental.

I assume you mean "interacting with other players while mining is nothing but detrimental". Mostly true. Very very occasionally you see "x up for free orca boosts". But paranoia limits even this level of interaction. And if you were to make the offer it does help others strip the system of ore that could otherwise be yours.

AFK ice mining is really no different from botting

AFK ice mining is really no different from botting

AFK ice mining is really no different from botting

i don't think anyone is the game just mines. people say there are people who just mine and nothing else, i think it's an urban myth.

Sadly, it's not.

I've had the dubious pleasure of interacting with someone who loves mining, identifies himself as a miner, and couldn't be bothered to do a damn thing in the game beyond that. It really blows my mind.

Knowing that also somehow made it more fun, when he managed to royally **** me off and I opened fire on his Exhumer.

Nobody is "wrong" in that situation.

If you watched CCP Soundwave today during his "couch chat", he made it quite clear that he's happy when players take matters into their own hands and play the way they want to. So if dude wants to mine and be a mouthy tard but, as a result, you decided to shoot him in the face then "The Powers That Be" are happy it's working that way.

Interactivity driven by players.

Nobody is "wrong" in that situation.

Interactivity driven by players.

I also disagree. Botting gets you banned. being AK will not. That's a huge difference.

Right, no difference.

AFK ice mining is really no different from botting

Seeing the leaked documents on ring mining requiring more interactivity on asteroid mining and the changes to ice mining, it appears that CCP is moving in a direction of more interactivity in minining.

We will most likley see the details about this tomorrow during the talk on EVE and mining...

That said, I would like to play Devil's advocate and say this might actually be a bad thing for the EVE and its economy.

Mining draws the type of persons who don't want to bother with missions (which by most accounts is simply aggro managment). Miner's seem to enjoy playing the game with little interaction as possible. The pinacle of this aspect is found with people who ice mine which is basically targeting an ice rock, pushing a button, and then waiting 30 minutes.

These people have no interest in playing a game that requires them to push buttons every 60 secdonds. Even regular mining can be done mostly done afk.

Like I said, I don't know what most miner's do while mining. I have talked to people that actually sit there and watch the rocks, but I suspect most of them do other things while playing EVE. Things like watching Youtube or Netflix, chat on teamspeak, troll the forums, listen to music, or generally do other things. (I have been known to do homework).

From an anecdotal perspective, I have the option to play many games. From single player games, to a plethora of multiplayer games.

Personally two games I have been enjoying recently are Star Wars the Old Republic and Victoria 2. That said, I have been playing EVE quite a bit more than those two games even though I have been doing nothing more than Ice Mining. Why? Because I like to listen to music (Mozart) and sip on a glas of merlot while I surf the internet while ice mining.

Its quite relaxing and an interesting way to pass the time.

That said, I would not recommend it for everyone. Its not as exciting and thrilling as a lowsec roam which sometimes I like to do, but sometimes I just want to vegetate.

If let's say, ice mining and mining in general became much more interactive, those players who enjoy "playing the game while not playing the game" have lost their niche.

If one has to constantly pay attention to the game much like missions (well sort of) then you might as well be playing missions.

In this respect, I suspct that a good deal of miners who currently enjoyed their relaxing pastime (well when not being ganked) will find the game too interactive to sit there and relax.

I don't know what everyone will do (I'm sure someone will rage quit). Peronsally I might stop mining and do something else for a living (say turn my current funds into industry), but if I and others stop mining, then perhaps the mineral prices will start to rise causing inflation in general. Which I am sure mission runners and those who spend their real money on plex will not enjoy.

Of course this is just speculation until tomorrow's talk on mining.

It might be quite possible to mine at a lower rate without the interaction and the interaction only increases yield but is not a requirement.

But if mining does require more interactivity for any yield, will most of you non-miners consider mining? Will you missions runners and PVP types quit your current business model and pick up a mining barge to get in on the rising profit related to mining?

Or will only the current miners continue to mine?

Is CCP making a big assuming that players want more mining interactivity while not actually knowing this to be true?

And any players who answer in this thread "yes, I want more interactivity" are you going to personally mine because of these changes or is this just an expectation of what you think other people want?

And yes, I suppose I admitted to being a dirty miner.

Interesting read OP and I can understand where you are coming from. However as a miner myself I have to say I hope there is more interactivity in mining. It doesn't have to be much, but somthing to stop the AFK miners getting just as much as me as someone who is always at my keyboard. I think mining rocks is reasonably good right now (they run out so quick when you are using a mack or hulk so you need to switch targets), but ice mining should never have been made the way it is now. It's almost better to be AFK with ice at the moment.

Interesting read OP and I can understand where you are coming from. However as a miner myself I have to say I hope there is more interactivity in mining. It doesn't have to be much, but somthing to stop the AFK miners getting just as much as me as someone who is always at my keyboard. I think mining rocks is reasonably good right now (they run out so quick when you are using a mack or hulk so you need to switch targets), but ice mining should never have been made the way it is now. It's almost better to be AFK with ice at the moment.

basically you just want the mackinaw's ore bay removing.

That'd be a start.

a start to making the mackinaw completely useless. it'll be out tanked by the skiff (which is already a redundant role, more or less) and out yielded by the hulk, leaving the mackinaw the best at... nothing.

There's a difference between "I have more cargo capacity so you don't NEED to jet with a dedicated hauler" and "I got this, go watch TV for half an hour"

Here's a crazy idea. What if you cut that ore bay in half. You still have 17.5km3. Make the skiff like 10 instead of the current 15. Drop the T1 barges accordingly. That would be a start.

I really don't see any reason for a dedicated mining ship to hold one and a quarter jetcans of cargo and surpass the capacity of dedicated haulers. That's a max skill, cargo fitted and rigged mammoth using giant containers worth of space. That's as much as a cargo expanded and rigged Occator/Impel, the T2 transports with the largest potential cargo bays.

then it's too small to be efficient, so you're better off jetcanning with a hulk again.

A higher barrier to success adds value to the mining profession.

Value = Demand / Supply.

ever thought about posting something useful instead of the same irrelevant equation?

it's not a barrier to success, it's simply making a ship redundant.

You mean like the Hulk is now?

except, it isn't.

That information is literally four months old and was released shortly after the changes featured in Retribution.

There were a lot of Hulks left over. Their relevancy continues to decline.

By the way, enjoy the 45 minute hands-free mining times while they last.

Apparently, my equation isn't so irrelevant after all!

The fundamental idea of parking ship in space for hours on end while non-interactive modules cycle is just flawed. I don't think it could be salvaged. Fixing mining for good would require a grand overhaul that just isn't going to happen.

At best, I see CCP implementing some type of mining minigame, that effectively makes you be ATK doing something for max yield.

they aren't, according to the presentation they just gave.

they aren't, according to the presentation they just gave.

then it's too small to be efficient, so you're better off jetcanning with a hulk again.

The equation's relevant, Dave. They're changing ice mining because of it.

Thanks for your unfinformed disagreement.

Key question - is the efficiency the point?

How efficient is the hulk that gets their can stolen? I always saw it as something you "ship down" into when jet mining is not safe or you have a fleet too small to warrant a dedicated hauler.

Is being at the keyboard with a jetting hulk becoming more efficient than afk printing isk into an oversized hold, not the whole point?

Why should jet canning with a paper tank hulk NOT be more efficient?
Why does a Mining ship need to haul more than a dedicated T2 hauler?

they aren't, according to the presentation they just gave.

more efficient than the mackinaw doing the same because it has just had it's ore bay removed, because the hulk has more yield.

but you're not afk printing isk if the mackinaw has no ore hold. (also you're never really afk mining ore anyway due to asteroid depletion, you're just not paying attention to the client (subtle difference)).

i didn't say it should, i said it would if the mack had no ore bay.

not sure what you're getting at with that last question?

I just woke up. What did the presentation say?

I didn't say remove, I said cut it in half to start. 17km is still a sizeable hold that can be used to mine without jet canning and offers an advantage over the hulk in niche usability, like the skiff's tank. A solo mack vs a solo jetting hulk docking to get a hauler, the mack would still be similar in efficiency while being easier and safer in many ways. For one, try jet mining while orbiting to avoid bumpers.

Mining ships are supposed to mine. Transport ships are supposed to move goods. The mack largely obsoletes the use of transports to move ore/ice to station. Why would you have a hauler move ice mined by an active hulk to station, when a yield fit afk Mack has 92% of the iced yield and the same cargo space as an Occator with two cargo rigs and 6 cargo expander 2's?

Why does a mining ship with the second best yield need a cargo hold that matches the largest, max cargo fitted transport ship short of a Freighter/Orca?