considering the TINY % of players that live in WHs, it's not that surprising.
if you were looking at isk loss per kill, id be willing to be WHs would be top of the list.

Carriers and dreadnoughts are better off made in lowsec because of the abundance of NPC manufacturing there and relative ease of access. So that leaves titans and supercarriers to be made in lowsec.

That still doesn't support your point at all.

I didn't say anything about the graphs regarding ammo, modules, etc. You did by referring to total manufacturing capability. You said that the graphs obviously show that "nullsec can produce such goods" which is completely untrue.

You're also making unfounded assumptions that the graphs are higher for nullsec simply because our ship costs are higher. Not all of the ships we use are particularly expensive, and for those ships we use that are expensive we lose far less of them. Our biggest losses in fleets are generally things like battlecruisers, interdictors, other low cost stuff.

Interesting. I'm always being yelled at to go to low/null sec if I want "real" PVP.

OMG, THEY WERE RIGHT?!

Well we could argue back and forth, but neither of us has statistical data to back outselves up other than what CCP provides and what they did provide doesn't show us whether or nto what type of ships were lost. I suppose I was the one to assume that Null sec losses are higher because they have more expensive ships.

I suppose the data is all there on the kill boards but I don't have the technical know how to compile the data.

So I suppose I'm going to pull a George W Bush and go with my gut on this and say that if I didn't know any better I would guess the reason null sec has higher losses in isk value is becaues they fly more expensive ships.

But without the details we've mentioned, it might only mean "Real expensive" PvP.

Just means that most highseccers run around and pew in the Eve equivalent of Yugos while the nullsec crowd goes and pews with their Lamborghinis and Bugattis..

So I suppose I'm going to pull a George W Bush and go with my gut on this and say that if I didn't know any better I would guess the reason null sec has higher losses in isk value is becaues they fly more expensive ships.

That or gankers in hi-sec aren't doing their jobs well enough.

http://i.imgur.com/WzXjyuN.jpg

Whoops, there goes that theory. Turns out if you remove losses to rats, hisec comes in third.

Well we don't have any proof that null sec has to import its goods from hi-sec other than null sec members saying they have to.

Can you post a link with imperical data proving to me that the majority of goods in null sec were manufactured in hi-sec?

I am pointing out the futility of this argument. I may have said things that were not backed by data, but I feel that its true.

I accept that the things you feel to be true are also not backed by data.

But I reserve the right to not believe you and I accept your right to not believe me either.

Well we don't have any proof that null sec has to import its goods from hi-sec other than null sec members saying they have to.

Can you post a link with imperical data proving to me that the majority of goods in null sec were manufactured in hi-sec?

It's been empirically demonstrated several times in threads regarding nullsec vs. highsec manufacturing capability that even if all of our slots were used to produce ammunition it still wouldn't be enough to cover our needs. Then there's also the fact that many systems in highsec are capable of outproducing entire well-developed regions in nullsec (there were some systems in The Forge for example that are capable of outproducing Tribute, for example). These are just some of many facts uncovered and supported by empiric data in such threads. It's not my responsibility to dig them out for you.

If there were a thousand threadnaughts of EVE players saying that the earth is 6000 years old, it doesn't make it true.

Even if were true, why so mad that you have to import stuff? Why not use a high-sec alt to make all your goods?

Even if were true, why so mad that you have to import stuff? Why not use a high-sec alt to make all your goods? If that isn't feasible, surely the CSM owned mostly by the Null sec alliances would have raised this issue by now? Why hasn't CCP addressed the lack of manufacturing in POS setups then?

Then again as I support WH manufacturing I see no problem in increasing POS manufacturing output in general.

If you don't understand why this is a problem with game balance then I can't help you.

I'm just saying if this perceived problem was such a great issue, why hasn't it been addressed yet? I mean I've seen countless threadnaughts saying that null-sec must have greater output, but I've seen little inclination of CCP to change this current situation.

There's an awful lot that CCP fails to address. You must be new here.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/nullsec-board-for-blog.jpg

I've never seen such arguments despite reading over a few threadnaughts.

What I did see is that the complaint was that Nullsec has to rely on hi-sec for its manufacturing capabilities as Nullsec could never possibly supply itself with current manufacturing capability.

Overall, I would suspect hi-sec has a much higher total numbers of ships lost, but the ships lost are of much lesser value as no one is strutting around in Titans, dreadnaughts, and carriers whereas Nullsec has ships of much higher value.

Seeing that Nullsec can produce such goods, maybe its not as bad off as people make it out to be.

Thats where you tend to fall of the rails. You make the assumption that capital and super capital kills are somehow the driving force behind the numbers and because those things CAN be produced in null, there is no problem.

A cursory look at EVE kill or any other general killboard will show you that it's tech2 ship (crusiers and frigs mostly) kills followed by tech1 battleship and battlecruiser kills (and a generous sprinking of tech3 kills) that drives the higher isk vaule numbers of null sec. With 3% of high sec's overall industrial capacity (despite 10 years of development by null sec player alliances), null sec litterally CAN'T supply the numbers of ships needed for null warfare, and this in turn keeps null sec player groups enslaved to High Sec industrialists.

Capital ships are an element, but only a small one. Sub-caps truly rule null sec pvp, caps are jsut the flashy glory hounds. The vast majority of null sec characters can't even fly super capital ships.

Maybe I've been going about this argument all wrong.

Maybe my argument should have been "It's not that there are less losses in hi-sec, its just null-sec players are just bad at the game and tend to die more in foolish ways and should have never undocked in the first place."

Hopefully that is inflammatory way to keep this discussion going.

I mean seriously, why all the losses? It means someone doesn't know how not to die.

Or that the hi-sec gankers aren't doing their job well enough.

Are you really that stupid, or are you just trolling?

Which goes to support the whole idea of wormhole space being a carebear haven.

wait what? that isnt even remotely what i said... >_<