it also shows how little PvP wormholes have in comparison to the rest of eve, despite the average PvP ship in wormholes costing significantly more than ships used for PvP elsewhere

heh

CCP cant offer even more isk for 0.0 pve activities so that leaves nerfing high as the only viable option. Unlike many highsecers, we are willing to see past our own greed to see through balance needs.

"Pvp more safely"? . . . that's nonsense.

What makes you think nullsec is producing these goods? You do realize that the vast majority of modules, ammunition, and ships are imported from highsec, right?

In addition, what makes you think there are more ships lost to pvp in highsec than in null?

So the smaller independent warring nations import weapons and supplies from the larger warring nations?

Art imitates life?

And does that make the Goons North Korea?

If the idea of "safer pvp" is nonsense to you, then what that tells me is that your approach to PVPing is reckless. If there are a lot of people like you, who go to null sec to PVP recklessly, then that goes a long way towards explaining why so many ships die in null versus in other places. The fact that you choose to use null as your own personal PVP wonderland and choose to use high sec as your own personal ATM machine also goes a long way toward explaining why so many ships die in null versus in other places. PVE ships are used for PVE, while PVP ships are used for PVP. One results in more ISK in your wallet. The other tends to result in a pretty pixel explosion and a blip on the graph. So, basically, you go to high sec to make ISK and you go to null sec to increase the number of ship deaths there. Think about how the graph would look if you reversed your behavior.

It's like saying "More people, per capita, get laid in Vegas than any other city in America.". Well, if a larger percentage of people go to Vegas to get laid than anywhere else, then, guess what?! Likewise, if a larger percentage of players go to null sec to explode ships and to get their ship exploded, then, guess what?!

If more people went to null sec with the explicit intention of NOT exploding, then there wouldn't be as many ship losses. I also wonder how many of those hulls are capsules, which are easy to catch if they are bubbled, and much harder to catch without bubbles . . . and how many of those capsules were just taking a ride on the pod express? How many of those ships are suicide-cynos? And let me ask this: aren't CONCORD kills PVP kills? Are those on the graph for high sec?

Game balance doesn't give a **** about whether it makes any parallels with real life.
If I'm poor in real life, can I just go and print myself some money? No.
And countless other things...

Stop with the strawmen already. Nobody said they wanted pure self-sufficiency.

But, but . . . THE GRAPH! The graph clearly shows that null sec has more disposable income than any other region . . . by far.

Nullsec players have alts in hisec, hope this helps.

"Lots of ships die, that means that everybody is PVPing recklessly."

What in the actual ****? No, it means a lot more ships are PVPing.

If everybody is {not trying to +1 the graph at the expense of their ship} then that means everybody would be {+1'ing the graph a lot less}, not {just +1'ing the graph} less.

Nullsec players have alts in hisec, hope this helps.

No, it means a lot more ships are DYING. I would readily concede that more ships are purposed for PVP in null sec than in high sec, low sec, and wormhole space. Just show me a graph that actually says that. The real question is WHY? Is it that null is a great place to PVP? Is it that high sec is a terrible place for PVP? Or, is it that players are almost systematically told to PVP in null and told NOT to PVP in high sec? Could it be that most players are just too lazy (or dumb) to learn about aggression mechanics in high and low sec? Could it be that most casual players just want to log in for a few hours, F1-F8 some stuff, make some ISK, change some skills, and log out without having to think too hard . . . just like in any other MMO? And, if most null players really are just like most other MMOers, do you really want EVE Online to cater to that demographic?

i.e. Null bears are getting enough ISK. It sounds to me like the game is working as intended!

If you don't understand why this is a problem with game balance then I can't help you.

Nullsec players have alts in hisec, hope this helps.

The reason is CONCORD (google it up), which prevents normal PVP in high security space.

(BTW, thanks for the quote, Andski. It's helping quite a bit.)

*Emphasis added

If CONCORD prevents PVP, then why do null sec players have to use alts in high sec?

Why were all those freighters dying in Jita last weekend?

Why are there still ships lost in high sec to PVP according to The Graph?

And, most importantly . . . what is "normal" PVP?

So I suppose that just means that Null sec players are technically High sec players too.

Ergo, most Null sec players are dirty High sec carebears on their alts?

yes, all the hate you see is simply a manifestation of self-loathing. they need to come to terms with their inner bear and let go of this 'game imbalance' delusion.

or the fact that they're frustrated that they feel the game forces them to have high sec alts to do what they should be doing in null sec, but don't do in null sec because it's done better/easier in high sec?

Because players who identify themselves as a Null Player dread the fact they have to create a High Sec alt to do industry and then haul the stuff in. Why shouldn't they be able to play where they want to live?

If the increased manufacturing capacity was added to the POS, why would Null residents put this POS where it can be easily attacked, instead of throwing it up in a high sec alt corp under CONCORD's protection?

Why is CONCORD protecting the NULL industrial backbone from attack not only at no charge, but with benefits?

Edit: If you read the threadnaught in question as you claim, how come any of this is news to you?

If CONCORD prevents PVP, then why do null sec players have to use alts in high sec? Why were all those freighters dying in Jita last weekend? Why are there still ships lost in high sec to PVP according to The Graph? And, most importantly . . . what is "normal" PVP?

Don't blame us for using the exact same mechanics available to you.

Modest boosts to Nullsec industry seem fine to me, but too much will not be healthy for the game as a whole.

CONCORD doesn't prevent PVP

You're a flithy high-sec carebear and you enjoy it! You wallow in that hi-sec isk like scrooge mc-duck on cokahina and gold!

"Some X happens despite Y.
Therefore Y never prevents X."
I'm pretty sure this is a fallacy, I'm just not entirely sure what the name for it is.


So in other words, nerf highsec to teach Goons a lesson, amirite?

Let me offer you MY "narrative", Georgina Parmala.

Null sec players like Andski (and pirates) use alts in high sec TO AVOID PVP. If they try to enter high sec in their PVE bling-mobile or in a freighter full of null sec goods wearing a GoonSwarm or TEST or RAZOR or whatever-nullsec-alliance ticker (or with -5 CONCORD standing), they will get ganked. They will get ganked by war dec'ers. They will get ganked by suicide gankers. They will get ganked by the alts of alliances they are at war with in null. They will get ganked for ISK. They will get ganked for lols. They will get ganked for tears. Otherwise, why WOULDN'T they use their high skillpoint uber-elite PVP mains? They can't. It's not safe for them.

Burn Jita is a prime example of how ridiculous it is to say that PVP doesn't happen in high sec.

If a freighter is not safe from non-consensual PVP in 1.0 space, then what are people talking about when they say that "CONCORD prevents PVP.". CONCORD doesn't prevent PVP any more than lack of skillpoints prevents PVP or lack of ISK prevents PVP. CONCORD is a feature of the game, just like warp disruptor bubbles, just like gate/station aggression lockout timers, just like super capitals. If you're going to complain about one, be consistent and complain about EVERYTHING that hinders direct, indiscriminant hostilities. CONCORD may save a lot of ships, but you know what saves more ships? Space stations that allow you to dock your ship and store it completely out of harms way.

"Normal PVP" is a great example of the socialization and subliminal messaging that goes on in this game. If you can't do "normal PVP" in high sec, then maybe you should go to where you CAN do "normal PVP". Right? Georgina, you and null bears are no more qualified to tell the rest of us what PVP is "normal" than we are qualified to tell you what is "normal" mining or "acceptable" trading or "good" ship fitting. Your way of doing PVP is no more "normal" or "acceptable" or "fair" or "skillful" than a high or low sec or wormhole player's way of doing it.