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The new Tags system: Tag4Sec

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Hae Sung Da Learnin Corp 26	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:03:00 - [61] - Quote ITT: 1. A discussion of the effects of outsourcing an old activity(time spent ginding) for an existing currency set(isk) subject to market forces, manipulation by people able and willing to put the time into farming it, and sandbox game play taken to a new economic level. Yay! 2. People who don't like the PLEX system. Overall looks to be an innovative way to address the tedium of sec status grinding and allows less fewer NPC-oriented penalties for player to player interaction. Win all around.
March rabbit epTa Team Inc. 653	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:08:00 - [62] - Quote Tippia wrote: Oh, and the italicised part is 100% untrue. The penalty is still there and it must be paid. You're just given a choice how to pay it; you choose what kind of penalty you want to suffer. can i have checkbox: Which penalty you want to suffer for attacking in high-sec: 1) being CONCORDOKKEN 2) being paid XXX ISK ? I think this is perfectly inside your theory about penalties and suffering. And many people would love to have it. Guess which option it would be every time?
Solstice Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3309	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:19:00 - [63] - Quote This is ridiculous. There is no information about quantities or spawnrates given, thus these talks are completely nonsense. Besides that, it reads as if people believed prices wouldn't go through the roof if their horror-scenarios actually came true. In any way, if suddenly ALL THE GANKERS would buy tags for PLEX, prices would SKYROCKET making it unaffordable ! Even IF there are rich people who could buy PLEX to no ends, these people are definitely NOT the majority ! You people are just batshit crazy about things not even happening yet and probably never happening, because the market will prevent that !
Kharamete Feral Solutions Inc 6	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:25:00 - [64] - Quote Even if prices did go through the roof, it would mean more people in the belts in lowsec. Yay.
Indahmawar Fazmarai 1544	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:25:00 - [65] - Quote Kharamete wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Tippia wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: So essentially certain players will be able to pay CCP and get rid of the consequences of their actions against other players. No. 1. Lose sec status, suffer consequences 2. Buy PLEX 3. Sell PLEX for ISK 4. Buy tags with ISK 5. Buy sec status with tags, get rid of consequences 6. Back to 1 Yes. Someone still has to farm the tags. You're only moving the burden somewhere else. If nobody farms the tags, there will be no tags. Just like you probably don't mine every mineral for your ship. You just buy it off the market. Does your reasoning mean that you pay to win when you buy a ship? Buying a ship is not the same as avoiding a consequence of what I did to another player. But It really doesn't matters. I am fine with this change, another nail on the coffin. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
Brooks Puuntai Solar Nexus. 1302	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:26:00 - [66] - Quote Way to ruin the party Solstice. [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206023&find=unread[/url]
Solstice Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3309	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:29:00 - [67] - Quote Brooks Puuntai wrote: Way to ruin the party Solstice. lol
Karig'Ano Keikira State War Academy Caldari State 24	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:36:00 - [68] - Quote while I can understand reasons behind this feature, cannot sat I like it - unless entire process will be prohibitively expensive, (and somehow I doubt it) buying, it kinda cheapens entire concept of security status - what is point of sec status if I can just pay a bit of ISK and remove all consequence of 'bad actions' however, if entire process is expensive (low drop rate of tags and order of magnitude of 100m ISK payout to concord per 1 point of sec rating restored), it might be decent ISK sink
Solstice Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3310	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:37:00 - [69] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: But It really doesn't matters. I am fine with this change, it's another nail on the coffin. Hopefully in yours. Ingame. Because you have no clue about this game, else you wouldn't say such bull. People should hunt you down and the likes of you down and shoot you until you leave, because your attitude doesn't fit. THAT's how the game works and THAT's why people love it ! (i, personally, really don't care about you people or what you think,) (but the very fact that it's possible to make this happen is why this) (game is still alive and why we love it. It's alive and well, not because) (of people like you, but because of people like me.)
Dave Stark 2887	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:38:00 - [70] - Quote Brooks Puuntai wrote: Way to ruin the party Solstice. like i didn't say the same with the very first reply in the thread :P
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 13864	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:44:00 - [71] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: This is ridiculous. There is no information about quantities or spawnrates given, thus these talks are completely nonsense. Besides that, it reads as if people believed prices wouldn't go through the roof if their horror-scenarios actually came true. In any way, if suddenly ALL THE GANKERS would buy tags for PLEX, prices would SKYROCKET making it unaffordable ! Kharamete wrote: Even if prices did go through the roof, it would mean more people in the belts in lowsec. Yay. Pretty much. No matter how you turn it, it's a self-reinforcing circle of goodness, which, at worst, means everyone has to keep grinding for sec like they do today. March rabbit wrote: Which penalty you want to suffer for attacking in high-sec: 1) being CONCORDOKKEN 2) being paid XXX ISK ? I think this is perfectly inside your theory about penalties and suffering. And many people would love to have it. Guess which option it would be every time? Seeing as how the two options are the same, this already exists in the game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á
Solstice Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3310	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:45:00 - [72] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: Way to ruin the party Solstice. like i didn't say the same with the very first reply in the thread :P Actually, the whole thing is nonsense. People just don't have the brain to realize that no ganker ever actually needs to sec up for anything except PvE in highsec, which i'm sure most gankers don't actually care about anyways. (mostly, probably, because they are cowards hiding behind alts) For ganking, besides cost, there is simply nothing keeping anybody from ganking candy asses even in 1.0sec in battleships all day, if he wanted ... Consequences ... avoiding consequences ... ridiculous ! Masses of people are dumb ... this thread proves it again.
Dave Stark 2887	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:46:00 - [73] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: Dave Stark wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: Way to ruin the party Solstice. like i didn't say the same with the very first reply in the thread :P Actually, the whole thing is nonsense. People just don't have the brain to realize that no ganker ever actually needs to sec up for anything except PvE in highsec, which i'm sure most gankers don't actually care about anyways. (mostly, probably, because they are cowards hiding behind alts) For ganking, besides cost, there is simply nothing keeping anybody from ganking candy asses even in 1.0sec in battleships all day, if he wanted ... Consequences ... avoiding consequences ... ridiculous ! Masses of people are dumb ... this thread proves it again. PATCH CHANGES, DA SKY IZ FALLING!
Solstice Project Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3310	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:54:00 - [74] - Quote Dave Stark wrote: PATCH CHANGES, DA SKY IZ FALLING! Oh btw ... with "anybody" i was talking about any outlaw. Just added for clarification.
Karig'Ano Keikira State War Academy Caldari State 24	Posted - 2013.04.27 16:55:00 - [75] - Quote fact is that sec statuc atm does not stop ganking (is that good mechanic or not is discussion I will not go into), and it is unlikely that 'dedicated ganker' char will pay any amount of ISK to buy back sec status, however for 'normal low-sec players', sec status does have (at least some) impact as it does to visitors to low sec - when you see someone with -10 in local, saying 'pirate' is a good guess, while when you see someone with +5, it is quite likely he won't actively go after you. So sec status is at least somewhat part of character and playstyle - making it arbitrarily changable does take a bit of EVE from EVE (not much however, I really doubt seeing any significant impact from this, but still... )
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 733	Posted - 2013.04.27 17:30:00 - [76] - Quote RICH PEOPLE CAN USE ALL THEIR REAL MONIES TO BUY ITEMS IN EVE!!!!1!! THEY'RE CIRCUMVENTING THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS!!!!1 PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN! This is all I'm hearing right now. Same argument, just tweaked a bit. These people actually take issue with the entire idea of the PLEX system. Good luck getting CCP to abandon that lol. I don't like to shoot red crosses, and you can't make me.
Brooks Puuntai Solar Nexus. 1303	Posted - 2013.04.27 17:45:00 - [77] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: RICH PEOPLE CAN USE ALL THEIR REAL MONIES TO BUY ITEMS IN EVE!!!!1!! THEY'RE CIRCUMVENTING THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS!!!!1 PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN! This is all I'm hearing right now. Same argument, just tweaked a bit. These people actually take issue with the entire idea of the PLEX system. Good luck getting CCP to abandon that lol. I don't like to shoot red crosses, and you can't make me. Its like sending a kid to his room for timeout after he does something bad, but still allowing him to play video games. It defeats the purpose of a punishment if they enjoy it. Its the same here. People want to be able to gain isk in a manner they enjoy in order to circumvent the residual effects of their actions. There for rendering the consequences to almost nothing. Then again the whole sec status system is pointless in the first place. Sec loss should only apply to aggressive actions taken in high sec, you know the area Concord actually patrols. Using sec loss as a risk factor for individuals in what is considered "safe space". Lowsec on the other hand shouldn't accrue sec less since it is not actively patrolled by concord. Let bounties in lowsec dictate who's a pirate or not, and let lowsec be the lawless empire it was meant to be. [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=206023&find=unread[/url]
MystLynx Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2013.04.27 17:52:00 - [78] - Quote Rebecha Pucontis wrote: I dont see why low seccers need special treatement. They should just grind up standing the way everybody else does it. Put more valuable rats in low sec, but don't allow them to buy the tags from market. I guess its too late now though anyway. May be because you loose your sec status mainly in low sec? And anyway why would you care as you will be able to buy tags too? Looks like whines from a 0.0 bear.
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 733	Posted - 2013.04.27 22:30:00 - [79] - Quote Brooks Puuntai wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: RICH PEOPLE CAN USE ALL THEIR REAL MONIES TO BUY ITEMS IN EVE!!!!1!! THEY'RE CIRCUMVENTING THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS!!!!1 PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN! PAY TO WIN! This is all I'm hearing right now. Same argument, just tweaked a bit. These people actually take issue with the entire idea of the PLEX system. Good luck getting CCP to abandon that lol. I don't like to shoot red crosses, and you can't make me. Its like sending a kid to his room for timeout after he does something bad, but still allowing him to play video games. It defeats the purpose of a punishment if they enjoy it. Believe it or not, I don't enjoy forking over large sums of ISK. So... argument destroyed. I think this stems from the carebear narrative that the "bad" things people like me do in this game are actual, literal, BAD things. I 'play' the "bad guy" and this is essential to EVE Online, but that doesn't stop carebears from labeling me an actual BAD GUY who must be stopped, it's inconceivably ridiculous.
Josef Djugashvilis Acme Mining Corporation 1165	Posted - 2013.04.27 22:34:00 - [80] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: But It really doesn't matters. I am fine with this change, it's another nail on the coffin. Hopefully in yours. Ingame. Because you have no clue about this game, else you wouldn't say such bull. People should hunt you down and the likes of you down and shoot you until you leave, because your attitude doesn't fit. THAT's how the game works and THAT's why people love it ! (i, personally, really don't care about you people or what you think,) (but the very fact that it's possible to make this happen is why this) (game is still alive and why we love it. It's alive and well, not because) (of people like you, but because of people like me.) My, Solistice, you always seem to be so angry. Surely, the range of player opinions is one of the things which makes Eve so interesting This is not a signature.
Lady Areola Fappington New Order Logistics CODE. 99	Posted - 2013.04.28 01:49:00 - [81] - Quote I've never seen grinding sec status as any kind of punishment. Most of the gankers I know wear blinkyred with pride. The punishment is the outlaw status, there's no game mechanic that says "you ganked a pod, now you MUST go kill X red crosses". At most, I figure most hardcore gankers are just going to use tags4Sec to screw with vultures. Sure, camp a station, lets see if you're paying attention when I tag up to -4.9.... If anything, you'd think gank targets would be cheering this change. It adds yet another ISK based consideration for weekend gankers, which will figure into profit calculations when choosing targets. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
Kaaii Kaaii-Net Research Labs KAAII-NET 27	Posted - 2013.04.28 01:55:00 - [82] - Quote Pay to gank, I like it...
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 734	Posted - 2013.04.28 02:15:00 - [83] - Quote Profit calculations? 0o Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahaha!
Lady Areola Fappington New Order Logistics CODE. 99	Posted - 2013.04.28 02:18:00 - [84] - Quote Galaxy Pig wrote: Profit calculations? 0o Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahaha! Nownow Piggydear, you know just as well as I do that some folks gank for base ISK. It's not as pure a motive as ours, but....hey, at least it's not AFK mining. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
silens vesica Corsair Cartel 1499	Posted - 2013.04.28 02:56:00 - [85] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Athena Momaki wrote: What was your take? my take is: i don't like ability of getting rid of SS with help of ISK. We know where is the biggest amount of ISK don;'t we? Now when somebody starts Burn Jita or whatever they need to get rid of SS. With tags they will just use their ISK to buy tags and repair SS then repeat ganking. Actually, I find that encouraging. One of my main complaints - indeed, my only complaint - about "Burn Jita II" was that there wasn't enough chaos and random combat. If folks don't fear the SS grind so much, there may be more folks willing to drown their security status in a blazing bowl of fire. Which would be fun. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Galaxy Pig New Order Logistics CODE. 734	Posted - 2013.04.28 05:20:00 - [86] - Quote Lady Areola Fappington wrote: Galaxy Pig wrote: Profit calculations? 0o Bwaaaaaahahahahahahahaha! Nownow Piggydear, you know just as well as I do that some folks gank for base ISK. It's not as pure a motive as ours, but....hey, at least it's not AFK mining. Hehe, yes yes, I was just reveling in the fact that we don't have to make any profitability calculations thanks to NO shareholders and the Savior of Highsec.
Minmatar Citizen160812 The LGBT Last Supper 146	Posted - 2013.04.28 23:18:00 - [87] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: This is ridiculous. There is no information about quantities or spawnrates given, thus these talks are completely nonsense. Besides that, it reads as if people believed prices wouldn't go through the roof if their horror-scenarios actually came true. In any way, if suddenly ALL THE GANKERS would buy tags for PLEX, prices would SKYROCKET making it unaffordable ! Even IF there are rich people who could buy PLEX to no ends, these people are definitely NOT the majority ! You people are just batshit crazy about things not even happening yet and probably never happening, because the market will prevent that ! 5 minute SS gain ticks without having to change systems will prevent anyone from spending anything on tags other than a few pennies here and there for fast sec when needed. They aren't batshit crazy they're just dumb. Under the new system it will probably be hard to keep a -10 status if you use the same character to rat. Even if they reduced the amount of sec gained per tick it's every 5 minutes so....what? a half hour of ratting in missions to go from -10 to -8ish?
March rabbit epTa Team Inc. 656	Posted - 2013.04.29 05:44:00 - [88] - Quote Tippia wrote: March rabbit wrote: Which penalty you want to suffer for attacking in high-sec: 1) being CONCORDOKKEN 2) being paid XXX ISK ? I think this is perfectly inside your theory about penalties and suffering. And many people would love to have it. Guess which option it would be every time? Seeing as how the two options are the same, this already exists in the game. looks like you have some bad time here Ok. 1. Being CONCORDOKKEN - your ship is killed by CONCORD and target couldn't survive 2. pay XXX ISK - your ship is not killed by CONCORD and you killed your victim i hope now you see the small difference here?
Katie Frost Asgard. Exodus. 160	Posted - 2013.04.29 06:53:00 - [89] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Did...did gankers get a buff? There must be a catch somewhere. I guess everyone missed the bit where the overall sec status will be separated from Concord standings and this being a prelude to "interesting" things to be coded in the future? Yeah if I was a ganker, I wouldn't be popping any fireworks just yet.
Lady Areola Fappington New Order Logistics CODE. 105	Posted - 2013.04.29 07:12:00 - [90] - Quote Katie Frost wrote: I guess everyone missed the bit where the overall sec status will be separated from Concord standings and this being a prelude to "interesting" things to be coded in the future? Yeah if I was a ganker, I wouldn't be popping any fireworks just yet. Ohh, we're not, this is cautious optimism. CCP seems to enjoy nerfing ganking, so here's hoping this is a change for the better. Best case, decoupling CONCORD lets CCP make some missions or whatever PVE content for concord. Even better, CONCORD says "screw it, we'll let the faction police their own borders, we got more important things to do". Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!

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