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DarkStar251	Posted - 2005.09.26 17:56:00 - [1] Ok, I know and accept CCP dont want T2 to become a comoddity. I dont care that cap recharger 2s are 17m each despite a 100k build cost, or that most hacs are 80m or so for a 17m build cost etc. What I dont like is that there are SO few HAC BPOs that you simply cannot buy a zealot or an ishtar for love nor isk. Take Naga enterprises, a well known t2 producer, who currently have a *180* day waiting list for a zealot, and *154* day waiting list for an ishtar. This is just insane - thats 6 months!!!!! I realise Naga are among the cheaper t2 builders, but even so I have not been able to find a zealot on the market anywhere. I actually have one that I bought before it got to this stage, so its not so bad for me, but I have corpmates that can fly them now but just cant get hold of them. There NEED to be more BPOs released for such 'vaporware' ships. If they are so unobtainable CCP may as well take them out of the game entirely. (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
slothe	Posted - 2005.09.26 17:57:00 - [2] signed hopefully my research agent may be able to assist :)
Imran	Posted - 2005.09.26 17:58:00 - [3] I feel your pain, gettin my ishtar today...ordered it 4 months ago but theres like tons of posts like this one ;/.
DarkStar251	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:01:00 - [4] I realise its more than likely that nothing will happen, but at least complaining about it made me feel a bit better :P I wouldnt care if the damn things sold for 200m, as long as it was possible to actually buy one! (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:03:00 - [5] Chatting to a build friend, about this and would extra BPO's make a difference.. he seemed to think if anything it would make things worse.. as some of the problems for the small time builders is getting the parts. So more bpo's would if anything drive the prices up, and still wouldn't add to the availibility of the ship.. if anything, the BPO's would end uup being sold and snatched up by the bigger builder corps.. so things would just remain the same.
Soulie	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:06:00 - [6] battleships are easy to find - but hard to afford make em cheaper to build/buy..! "What you do in life goes on in eternity"
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:08:00 - [7] Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 26/09/2005 18:10:10 Originally by: Toshiro Khan Chatting to a build friend, about this and would extra BPO's make a difference.. he seemed to think if anything it would make things worse.. as some of the problems for the small time builders is getting the parts. So more bpo's would if anything drive the prices up, and still wouldn't add to the availibility of the ship.. if anything, the BPO's would end uup being sold and snatched up by the bigger builder corps.. so things would just remain the same. Wow, your builder friend has a problem getting parts. Of course, this must be true for all corporations such as BIG or NAGA who are obviously have a short supply of components seeing as they sell so few tech 2 items. Welcome to the fact that the big BPO's will inevitably fall into the hands of people able to make the most of them. Doubling the number of BPO's will double the number being produced, but i doubt it will half the margins. More money, more ships. Everyone happy. Originally by: DrunkenOne Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly. Oh wait... wtf... DPS Sheet
DayVV4lkEr	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:09:00 - [8] i don't know where your problem is u can get Cerberus or Eagles whereever u want... Ok ok they suck ... That might be the reason why everyone wants the armarr, galentean or minmatar HACs. So my solution would be bring ALL HACs on one level and there won't be to less HACS
Imran	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:10:00 - [9] In the end its gonna be the same, more bpos = more people hording it, if you can get 80 mil for a ship why sell it at 59 mil?. Adding more bpos is not the problem, its the build time. 1 a day is just too long, reduce the production time to 3 a day or somthing. Its pretty clear from CCP that theyve released enough, just reduce the time it takes to build the damn thiings :/.
Bruchpilot	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:11:00 - [10] Originally by: Toshiro Khan Chatting to a build friend, about this and would extra BPO's make a difference.. he seemed to think if anything it would make things worse.. as some of the problems for the small time builders is getting the parts. So more bpo's would if anything drive the prices up, and still wouldn't add to the availibility of the ship.. if anything, the BPO's would end uup being sold and snatched up by the bigger builder corps.. so things would just remain the same. Yes if I'd be an industrialist I woulnd't make use of the second t2 BPO I just bought very cheap. I'd throw it away so I am still able to build 1 Hac/36h and keep the waitinglists and prices high and probably earn 30% less money.

HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:11:00 - [11] Originally by: DayVV4lkEr i don't know where your problem is u can get Cerberus or Eagles whereever u want... Ok ok they suck ... That might be the reason why everyone wants the armarr, galentean or minmatar HACs. So my solution would be bring ALL HACs on one level and there won't be to less HACS no, there would just be a shortage of the ones there at atm, and then a shortage of calari ones as well once the backlog of currently unwanted ships clears -- This Zig. For great justice!
DarkStar251	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Toshiro Khan Chatting to a build friend, about this and would extra BPO's make a difference.. he seemed to think if anything it would make things worse.. as some of the problems for the small time builders is getting the parts. So more bpo's would if anything drive the prices up, and still wouldn't add to the availibility of the ship.. if anything, the BPO's would end uup being sold and snatched up by the bigger builder corps.. so things would just remain the same. And pos owners are having huge problems with oversaturation of the markets with their complex reactions, and alot of the time selling at or below cost just to shift stuff. So how can it be that there are not enough components? (\_/) (O.o) (> <)
Karash Amerius	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:15:00 - [13] Leave it the way it is... When T3 comes out, T2 will flood.
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:16:00 - [14] Originally by: Karash Amerius Leave it the way it is... When T3 comes out, T2 will flood. I'd like to know, a) When T3 is coming in a proper allround form like T2 currently is (for most things), and b) how exactly the market will be "flooded" with a small number of blueprints only producing a ship every 1.5 DAYS. Originally by: DrunkenOne Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly. Oh wait... wtf... DPS Sheet
Warlord2004	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:26:00 - [15] There's loads for sale around the amar system.. They cost 120mil but if you'd rather wait 4 - 6 months to save the same amount as you could make hunting NPC in a day I guess thats everyones choice. Personaly I want my zealot now!!!!
DayVV4lkEr	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:27:00 - [16] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: DayVV4lkEr i don't know where your problem is u can get Cerberus or Eagles whereever u want... Ok ok they suck ... That might be the reason why everyone wants the armarr, galentean or minmatar HACs. So my solution would be bring ALL HACs on one level and there won't be to less HACS no, there would just be a shortage of the ones there at atm, and then a shortage of calari ones as well once the backlog of currently unwanted ships clears but that would lower the request for the other HACs
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Dianabolic Howdy mr Dev, I was wondering, with the recent fluctuation in HAC prices, particularly, how many of these BPO's are actually being used / built or copied from and how many are in circulation? Thanks in advance :) 20 of each as with all ships, all out it seems. Not many copies around, most seem to be in manufacturing. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=229010&page=1
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Dimitri Forgroth a) When T3 is coming in a proper allround form like T2 currently is (for most things) After Named T2?
Aureus	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:44:00 - [19] IMO having BPO's released to a few select people is silly. Everything would have been fine if the BPOs were just released to the market like all the T1 BPs... no ridiculous price gouging, no availability problems, no complaining about the lottery...
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.09.26 18:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Imran In the end its gonna be the same, more bpos = more people hording it, if you can get 80 mil for a ship why sell it at 59 mil?. Adding more bpos is not the problem, its the build time. 1 a day is just too long, reduce the production time to 3 a day or somthing. Its pretty clear from CCP that theyve released enough, just reduce the time it takes to build the damn thiings :/. More BPOs = More factories running = more hac. Who cares about the price, its fine and wont change when more bpos come out. Big Corps with hac BPOs arent slowing down the production to create a waiting list so they can charge high prices, theyve got a waiting list because all their hac bpos are already in the factories 24/7. More hac BPOs would also mean greater demand for POS/moon minerals, which isnt a bad thing either. Originally by: Aureus IMO having BPO's released to a few select people is silly. Everything would have been fine if the BPOs were just released to the market like all the T1 BPs... no ridiculous price gouging, no availability problems, no complaining about the lottery... Rofl no... ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]

Aureus	Posted - 2005.09.26 19:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Aureus IMO having BPO's released to a few select people is silly. Everything would have been fine if the BPOs were just released to the market like all the T1 BPs... no ridiculous price gouging, no availability problems, no complaining about the lottery... Rofl no... well ... why not ?
Malken	Posted - 2005.09.26 19:09:00 - [22] the biggest stumbling block i think is the fact that it takes longer to make a 1run copy then it is to make a ship. if the copying time went down to 50%-70% of the build time the BPO owners could benefit from using the lab slots and copy the BPO's to increase the production. couple that with releasing a appropriate amount of BPO's matching the population on the server. from what i understand CCP dropped 8 BPO's of new stuff when there was a max population of 3000 ppl on the server, we are now up to 16000 and still only 8 BPO's
franny	Posted - 2005.09.26 19:10:00 - [23] you do know there are other HAC suppliers than NAGA, right? I know I am gonna hate myself for admitting this but from eve-mail 1 to delivery, less than 2 weeks for a PAIR of Ishtars(at less than 80m) I can't even fly the bloody things yet, because I was going on the 'it will be 2-3 months minimum' logic
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.09.26 19:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Aureus Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Aureus IMO having BPO's released to a few select people is silly. Everything would have been fine if the BPOs were just released to the market like all the T1 BPs... no ridiculous price gouging, no availability problems, no complaining about the lottery... Rofl no... well ... why not ? Think. People play in different time zones. T2 would have become common. Profits on ownig a BPO would have been extremely low, just as it is for T1 (did you know that the going price on HACs nets more than 100% profit compared to production price?). Also, availability isn't a problem as such. It's an intention. The devs have accomplished what they intended, only the people who did the reasearch thingy feels shafted cause their research area just went cold (me and my two level 4s in Plasma Physics...). -- Give Stealth Bombers an anti-battleship role! Give them torpedoes instead of cruise missiles!
Aureus	Posted - 2005.09.26 19:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Aureus Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Aureus IMO having BPO's released to a few select people is silly. Everything would have been fine if the BPOs were just released to the market like all the T1 BPs... no ridiculous price gouging, no availability problems, no complaining about the lottery... Rofl no... well ... why not ? Think. People play in different time zones. T2 would have become common. Profits on ownig a BPO would have been extremely low, just as it is for T1 (did you know that the going price on HACs nets more than 100% profit compared to production price?). Also, availability isn't a problem as such. It's an intention. The devs have accomplished what they intended, only the people who did the reasearch thingy feels shafted cause their research area just went cold (me and my two level 4s in Plasma Physics...). Actually, profits with T1 products are still very high. I'm calculating 15% with many ships, up to 80% profits with some ammo types. 15% profit is huge unless you're spoiled by the unrealistically insane profits most T2 producers enjoy...
Angry Sheep	Posted - 2005.09.26 19:51:00 - [26] Im a independant zealot producer and I always put them up to market in the tash region, every 32 hours! Normally stay up for about 6 hours before they go - so keep an eye out It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Bedrock	Posted - 2005.09.26 19:51:00 - [27] Edited by: Bedrock on 26/09/2005 19:52:17 /signed, However, I doubt you'll get a response in this matter. Its amazing to me how something that has a huge impact in economy can be ignored to the public. Its like the devs have these secrets alts controlling the market. anyways, a good topic, unfortunately the only response you'll probably be getting is the half-witted ones [Please support my 'AFK Indicator' idea!!]
Gort	Posted - 2005.09.26 19:56:00 - [28] Seems to me the supply of HACs is about right. It's an elite ship for the veteran player who is willing to spend the uninsurable isk for a high status product. Also, it is my belief that the manufacturing profit on T1 ships can be bettered by selling the minerals direct. Those builders who still build big T1 ships must do it for the love of building and selling. The market is flooded. There's profit in ammo and such but not T1 ships bigger than a frigate in my experience. Gort Makeup artist for the dead
Porro	Posted - 2005.09.26 20:00:00 - [29] The hac market atm is overwhelmed, 60-70m for one is fine but a 140m is just silly. More bpos need to be seeded or the build time decreased imo.
hylleX	Posted - 2005.09.26 20:45:00 - [30] Im just wondering if CCP thought of the player base increasing AND getting more sp -> more can fly hacs. 20 bpos maybe was fine 6months ago or whatever, but obviously its not enough. 20 bpos means at most 7 of each hac can be produced a day? I wonder how many get blown up every day... And people stating that T2 should be rare, how come the majority of T2 items such as damage mods, frigs and weapons are not? is there to many bpos for those things? /signed signed and signed Well kids you've tried your best and failed miserably, the lesson is: never try



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