It would be very easy for CCP to prove me wrong or right and be able to inform the CSM of the changes in player behavior (or lack thereof).....

THIS week, do a census where you note which players are in hi-sec. Measure 10 times including over the weekend. If on any of those censii they are in null or low-sec throw them out of that hi-sec count. Then 90 days after Odyssey do another 10 censii over a week and see how many of those same players get spotted in null. My prediction is it will be a very very very small number and will be due to other factors (like me regaining the leisure time for null-sec).

While I *hope* high-sec will endure and pay their subs, I'm *convinced* that you won't turn them into null-sec players by making high-sec less rewarding, less fun, or less afk-able.

Prove me wrong. You already have the flogging high-sec into null policies soon to be instituted, so just get them to make the measurements and be scientists about it rather than religious zealots about it. Measure your results and throw them in my face if you're right.

While I myself may sound like a zealot in how firmly convinced I am that you can't flog them into null-sec, just remember that *I* am the one asking for the measurements to be taken.

While I am skeptical of what I call flogging high-sec players into null-sec, the CSM, CCP and the player population needs to know if such measures succeed or not in their intent.

You seem to think the intent is to get highseccers to move to nullsec.
It isn't.

You seem to think the intent is to get highseccers to move to nullsec.
It isn't.

What intent?

the post I sliced that from was after Malcanis suggested that someone moved my cheese and I should adapt.

Others in the dev round-up thread also seem to think the intent is to incentivize high-sec players into null-sec, as well as some posters who seem to think it will work.

Indeed. There seem to be a dedicated group of people in all security zones in this game that seem to take any change, minor or major, as a personal attack on them and where they play. So I'm going to leave this piece of wisdom that covers all MMOs for the OP (and people like the OP) - The single guaranteed thing that will always happen in any MMO is that it will change. And if you can't adapt to that change then you will be left behind, like trash in the gutter. In short - Change or Die.

Ok. But what GÇö if any GÇö is the actual intent? You can't really test something that doesn't exist.

Are you suggesting it is just random changes with no intent?

No, I'm suggesting that you're asking for a test without knowing what you're actually testing for.

[quote=Tippia][quote=Liz Laser]Others in the dev round-up thread also seem to think the intent is to incentivize high-sec players into null-sec, as well as some posters who seem to think it will work.

I'd say the intent is to make it actually worthwhile for miner industrialists and especially production industrialists to operate in nullsec, not to get X numbers of players into null or whatever the heck. Currently the majority of nullsec players interested in industry do it in highsec because null industry is just so bad.

So your census is fine if you include that (IE, take into account industrialist alts of null players that currently do industry in high that move their activities back to null, not merely pure highsec industrialists that decide to try out 0.0). So the methodology in that quote is wrong already as they are automatically throwing out people who are currently in nullsec/lowsec on some characters. You'd throw out current nullsec industrialists, not current nullsec players. I'd personally at least be interested in seeing if the nullsec industrialists migrate back to null, however if they don't I might conclude differently than you and say the changes weren't strong enough

And on less scientific matters, providing a worthwhile economic incentive to actually risk your industrial ship in an area of space with no guaranteed NPC reprisal is not "flogging" or "forcing" anyone to move to any area of space. Highsec mining was never intended to be not only the best ISK/effort but also sometimes even the best ISK/hour of mining. So as comfortable as you may have been with the new status quo after rogue drone alloy removal it was never within the spirit of eve, you are not being "forced" anywhere. Aside from actually moving out of highsec you can continue mining at the new rate, swap professions to one of the many still very profitable occupations in highsec such as factory PI, production, trade, incursions, L4s, or even highsec exploration. Heck, scam nullsec players if you really have an axe to grind!

I like to think of it as providing an incentive to nullsec players to stay in nullsec for their harvesting and manufacturing activities.

In my experience it isn't uncommon for nullsec players to have highsec manufacturing or mining alts, despite their affection for nullsec.

It's that broken.

Hmm that makes sense, you seemed fairly detached from it all so I wasn't sure if I should even go that far in my post. Anyways feel free to ignore the last bit, anyone who is actually upset can read the last bit. Enjoy (mostly) winning eve for the next few months!

I originally posted that after Malcanis suggested that someone moved my cheese and I should adapt.

Being familiar with the book title he is referencing, and from other posts in that thread it is pretty clear that influential people (including those who have served on the CSM) at least hope it will accomplish that.

What do *you* think is the intent?

And do you have any objection to the census I suggested?

I like to think of it as providing an incentive to nullsec players to stay in nullsec for their harvesting and manufacturing activities.

It's that broken.

My meaning was that there are very many viable options in hi-sec. I'm not sure why you're reacting so badly to the addition of a few of those options to 0.0

Can you give an example of a hi-sec profession that will no longer be viable with Odessey? The only thing that is being lost is a playstyle, and I for one will not mourn the departure of AFK ice mining. I realise that having to put in a tiny bit of thought, and maybe even engage with a moeity of player interaction will come as a shock to many, and it will initially be perceived as a "nerf", but I'm sure the significantly improved income will help soften the blow.

Or are you referring to low end minerals? Increasing 0.0's ability to supply all the low ends it needs from ~0.2% to ~2% is a mathematically large change, I agree, but I venture to suggest that the effect on hi-sec miners won't be as dramatic as you're assuming.

...?