Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:39:00 -
[61] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:dark heartt wrote:Frying Doom wrote: They exist so apparently everyone was not convinced.
They are however crazy...... Hmm I'm seeing a trend here... You seem very quick to class people who believe differently to you as crazy. Now while I will admit I do not believe in the ideas of the flat earth society, I do admire there ability to think outside the box. But I am sure you believe that the voting was down due to it being a peace time CSM.
I don't actually class anyone as crazy unless they reject evidence to something that has been proven completely true. I don't think anyone in this thread is crazy either (except for me, because I am replying to it).
However the fact remains that saying the earth is flat is completely insane in this day and age (and they are a troll regardless of what that tabloid says) where we know irrefutably that the Earth is round. Saying otherwise is either crazy, an attempt at publicity and becoming famous, or simply trying to be opposite to everyone else for the sake of it. There is concrete evidence to show the fact of the earth is round.
In this thread however we have two distinct sides that I don't identify with in either case. One side is defending the actions of CSM7 and you as the other side saying the actions they took lowered voter interest. Personally I don't agree with either one in the case of the election. They could have done more to put the CSM votes out there but they certainly didn't lower interest.
I actually think voting was down for a few reasons, the biggest being how confusing the new system was. It was representative of those who voted, but it turned a lot of people away with how complex it was. The other major reason is that people like Sgurd Battersea are a dime a dozen out there. Most have never heard about the CSM and those who have don't know anything about it. Some of the responsibility falls on the CSM there as mentioned before, but CCP also barely did anything to help that. A mass Evemail that a good portion of the community didn't receive. A devblog in the final hours. Why wasn't that stuff done at the start of the elections? About the only good thing was CCP going into local and spamming, and even that was too little too late.
All in all this topic is getting old for me. We all know how much you disliked CSM7 Frying. Leave it alone now, and start getting ready to run for it next year if you think you can do better. If your platform is any good I'll vote for you because people like you are good for things like this in my opinion. Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
|
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1871
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2013/05/alliance-panel-csm-titles-ballots-et-al.html
Chairman. Vice-chairman. Secretary. Vice-secretary. These CSM titles mean nothing. They confer no privilege or role upon the recipient. About the only thing they're good for is creating a little drama at the start of a CSM session among the newly elected representatives. You have one person who gets a title, and another person who's ticked off that nobody (or not enough people) voted for them.
Drop the titles. Get to work. The titles, they're just head inflation devices. And some of the representatives have already been shopping at the Big Hat Warehouse for too long already. Amarr Militia - Fweddit - http://fweddit.com Poetic Discourse - http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com |
dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep The Methodical Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
Agreed Poe Bienator II: "You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
|
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
If the titles held no value, why was CSM 6 considered a success while CSM 7 clearly isn't considered one? Especially considering they shared so many common members (8 of 14)? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Temba Ronin
213
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: But it should still be the policy of the CSM to try to get more people to vote in the following election.
So do you really suspect that the last slate of almost no incumbents wanted as low a turnout of voters as possible? Your position defies both reason and logic.
Of course the candidates running for election wanted as many votes as they could get.
You sir seem to not be in touch with the fundamental fact that this is a game! ..... Getting 12% of a gaming base to vote to send other people to represent them in regard to that game is nothing to scoff at. Some people believe that disagreeable confrontation is the only way to win an argument, while others believe having the best well thought out well communicated solution is the way.
If all you can perceive is threats, and your reaction is to charge the windmills do not be surprised if it is a lonely endeavor.
I look forward to you having some substance in your points of contention in the future and not just more smoke and mirrors.
Power To The Players! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote: But it should still be the policy of the CSM to try to get more people to vote in the following election.
So do you really suspect that the last slate of almost no incumbents wanted as low a turnout of voters as possible? Your position defies both reason and logic. Of course the candidates running for election wanted as many votes as they could get. You sir seem to not be in touch with the fundamental fact that this is a game! ..... Getting 12% of a gaming base to vote to send other people to represent them in regard to that game is nothing to scoff at. Some people believe that disagreeable confrontation is the only way to win an argument, while others believe having the best well thought out well communicated solution is the way. If all you can perceive is threats, and your reaction is to charge the windmills do not be surprised if it is a lonely endeavor. I look forward to you having some substance in your points of contention in the future and not just more smoke and mirrors. Power To The Players! Yes this is a game
But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:If the titles held no value, why was CSM 6 considered a success while CSM 7 clearly isn't considered one? Especially considering they shared so many common members (8 of 14)? CSM6 communicated with the player base, CSM7 did not.
Oh maybe CSM7 were hoarse from CCP cheer leading. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:32:00 -
[68] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:CSM6 communicated with the player base, CSM7 did not.
Right, and how did this come about, again remembering the large amount of shared membership? What was the main difference between the two? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1872
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:If the titles held no value, why was CSM 6 considered a success while CSM 7 clearly isn't considered one? Especially considering they shared so many common members (8 of 14)? The Mittani was the success, not the chairman title. If The Mittani had no title, he still would have done exactly as he did. The title didn't make him a better CSM representative.
Amarr Militia - Fweddit - http://fweddit.com Poetic Discourse - http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.com |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:CSM6 communicated with the player base, CSM7 did not. Right, and how did this come about, again remembering the large amount of shared membership? What was the main difference between the two? The Mittani. He does know how to communicate, just look at the state of the Goonion addresses.
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:01:00 -
[71] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The Mittani. He does know how to communicate, just look at the state of the Goonion addresses.
Aha, now we're getting somewhere! And what title did The Mittani hold in CSM 6 and want for CSM 7? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The Mittani. He does know how to communicate, just look at the state of the Goonion addresses.
Aha, now we're getting somewhere! And what title did The Mittani hold in CSM 6 and want for CSM 7? The title did nothing to his abilities, except for fluffing his ego.
As that is all the title is for ego, I am suggesting giving an ego boost to hi-sec players, encouraging them to be more interested in the CSM, rather than those that already act like elitists.
I think CSM7 showed that it is just a title, taken by those who wish an inflated ego. It does not make the title holder, wise, communicative or educated.
If the title goes to Null as usual, it will show that the 10 Null members on the CSM are just there for their own egos and little more. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:14:00 -
[73] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The title did nothing to his abilities
What did his abilities do to the title? "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The title did nothing to his abilities What did his abilities do to the title? Before or after he was removed from the council? Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:18:00 -
[75] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Before or after he was removed from the council?
Well, he was only chair the one time, so before. Nice try to deflect though "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:28:00 -
[76] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Before or after he was removed from the council? Well, he was only chair the one time, so before. Nice try to deflect though Well his ability to resign/become inelligable allowed Seleene to become Chairman of CSM7, allowed the STV to be introduced and generally help land us with the worst CSM we have had in years.
If he had not held an office and been thrown off he could have still been a brilliant leader and not caused all of the above to happen. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
Suprise, an incoherent response that misses the point entirely!
The point, Frying Doom, is that the titles themselves absolutely can have value in the right hands. You of all people should understand this since you used the inverse to argue that Trebor's failure to update wiki pages or whatever while he was CSM 6 Secretary was proof that nobody should vote for him.
Poetic Stanziel wrote:The Mittani was the success, not the chairman title. If The Mittani had no title, he still would have done exactly as he did. The title didn't make him a better CSM representative.
This thread is now a petition for you to change your name to Autistic Stanziel "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Suprise, an incoherent response that misses the point entirely!
The point, Frying Doom, is that the titles themselves absolutely can have value in the right hands. You of all people should understand this since you used the inverse to argue that Trebor's failure to update wiki pages or whatever while he was CSM 6 Secretary was proof that nobody should vote for him. Yes the office does have some duties, no where does it actually say that the leader of the CSM is the chairman.
It says "The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. "
So you are looking for a good communicator, someone who communicates well and frequently with the community especially.
so Mynnna posting stats are total posts: 883 Jita Park Speakers Corner 25,48% (225 posts) Market Discussions 19,59% (173 posts) Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions 18,01% (159 posts) EVE General Discussion 12,34% (109 posts) now I will not say some of her marketing posts are not great, because they are, but all in all not a huge communicator.
Mike Azariah Total posts 209 Jita Park Speakers Corner 68,42% (143 posts) Assembly Hall 12,44% (26 posts) EVE General Discussion 7,18% (15 posts)
So not that many but when you add in the fact he is also a blogger and the fact he hosts podside, that counts a lot more.
Then you have Ripard Teg, Yes out of all of them he has the highest level of communication and personally if did not believe the CSM needed a Hi-sec chairman to communicate with the masses (Most of which are hi-sec residents), I really do believe Ripard would make an excellent communicator with the player base of new eden. Lets face it he does it already.
Malcanis has good ideas, but he is elitist to the core, Mynnna is arrogant as hell, thankfully Malcanis does not want the job, and Mynnna is ill suited. Do what is best for the CSM and the game as a whole, not just your egos. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
214
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:43:00 -
[79] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Yes this is a game
But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year.
Please enlighten me sir as to the other MMO games that have elections for player representatives annually that have a greater then 12.12% participation. While you are at it would you also let me know what percentage of participation would constitute it no longer being crap?
Sir did you take into consideration that the elections for CSM6 & CSM7 took place in the run up to national elections in the United States of America whose citizens seem to do a disproportionately larger slice of the EVE Online player voting compared to their actual percentage of voters? In both those years the USA had a highly charged political situation, and the CSM8 election took place after a national election what we call the "off year" as in a non-presidential election campaign. Quite frequently "Off Year" election turnout is considerably lower.
Sir there do exist two separate fields of endeavor which are all too often confused, political science and political punditry. Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9041
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:46:00 -
[80] - Quote
He's right though, 12% is a disappointing turnout.
1 Kings 12:11
|
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9041
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Suprise, an incoherent response that misses the point entirely!
The point, Frying Doom, is that the titles themselves absolutely can have value in the right hands. You of all people should understand this since you used the inverse to argue that Trebor's failure to update wiki pages or whatever while he was CSM 6 Secretary was proof that nobody should vote for him. Yes the office does have some duties, no where does it actually say that the leader of the CSM is the chairman. It says "The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. " So you are looking for a good communicator, someone who communicates well and frequently with the community especially. so Mynnna posting stats are total posts: 883 Jita Park Speakers Corner 25,48% (225 posts) Market Discussions 19,59% (173 posts) Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions 18,01% (159 posts) EVE General Discussion 12,34% (109 posts) now I will not say some of her marketing posts are not great, because they are, but all in all not a huge communicator. Mike Azariah Total posts 209 Jita Park Speakers Corner 68,42% (143 posts) Assembly Hall 12,44% (26 posts) EVE General Discussion 7,18% (15 posts) So not that many but when you add in the fact he is also a blogger and the fact he hosts podside, that counts a lot more. Then you have Ripard Teg, Yes out of all of them he has the highest level of communication and personally if did not believe the CSM needed a Hi-sec chairman to communicate with the masses (Most of which are hi-sec residents), I really do believe Ripard would make an excellent communicator with the player base of new eden. Lets face it he does it already. Malcanis has good ideas, but he is elitist to the core, Mynnna is arrogant as hell, thankfully Malcanis does not want the job, and Mynnna is ill suited. Do what is best for the CSM and the game as a whole, not just your egos.
Mittens has 3978 posts. Obviously I'm four and a half times the communcator he is!
1 Kings 12:11
|
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
210
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:53:00 -
[82] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: The title did nothing to his abilities, except for fluffing his ego.
As that is all the title is for ego, I am suggesting giving an ego boost to hi-sec players, encouraging them to be more interested in the CSM, rather than those that already act like elitists.
I think CSM7 showed that it is just a title, taken by those who wish an inflated ego. It does not make the title holder, wise, communicative or educated.
If the title goes to Null as usual, it will show that the 10 Null members on the CSM are just there for their own egos and little more.
So according to you, if a 'null sec' member is given the title of chairman then they must be 'there for their own egos', whereas if a 'high sec' mumber is given the title then they must be some humble philanthropist taking up the burden for the good of the game?
Lay off the weed kid. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Temba Ronin
214
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:53:00 -
[83] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:He's right though, 12% is a disappointing turnout. It may well be a disappointing number but that would have more to do with personal expectations then empirical statistical projection.
Power To The Players! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:55:00 -
[84] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Yes this is a game
But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year.
Please enlighten me sir as to the other MMO games that have elections for player representatives annually that have a greater then 12.12% participation. While you are at it would you also let me know what percentage of participation would constitute it no longer being crap? Sir did you take into consideration that the elections for CSM6 & CSM7 took place in the run up to national elections in the United States of America whose citizens seem to do a disproportionately larger slice of the EVE Online player voting compared to their actual percentage of voters? In both those years the USA had a highly charged political situation, and the CSM8 election took place after a national election what we call the "off year" as in a non-presidential election campaign. Quite frequently "Off Year" election turnout is considerably lower. Sir there do exist two separate fields of endeavor which are all too often confused, political science and political punditry. Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference. CSM 8 election United States 18894 votes 38.01% of votes 12.72% voters as % of subscribers 36.25% % of subscribers So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money
CSM 7 election United States 22114 votes 37.41% of votes 17.36% voters as % of subscribers 35.85% % of subscribers So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes.
So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote.
So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry.
A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before.
Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 11:58:00 -
[85] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Mittens has 3978 posts. Obviously I'm four and a half times the communcator he is!
Well you do tend to debate rather than demand. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Frying Doom wrote: The title did nothing to his abilities, except for fluffing his ego.
As that is all the title is for ego, I am suggesting giving an ego boost to hi-sec players, encouraging them to be more interested in the CSM, rather than those that already act like elitists.
I think CSM7 showed that it is just a title, taken by those who wish an inflated ego. It does not make the title holder, wise, communicative or educated.
If the title goes to Null as usual, it will show that the 10 Null members on the CSM are just there for their own egos and little more.
So according to you, if a 'null sec' member is given the title of chairman then they must be 'there for their own egos', whereas if a 'high sec' mumber is given the title then they must be some humble philanthropist taking up the burden for the good of the game? Lay off the weed kid. As I have said before a Hi-sec chairman will do more to engage the player base than a Null sec one will, and so far I have only heard talk of 2 people for the chairman ship, one is purely for ego and the other just thinks it is his god given right.
Maybe others will step forward but would they be able to garner the amount of good will a hi-sec chairman would, very unlikely. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Temba Ronin
215
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote: Yes this is a game
But 12.12% is crap game or no game and it is even more crap when you consider the fact it is 1/4 lower than last year.
Please enlighten me sir as to the other MMO games that have elections for player representatives annually that have a greater then 12.12% participation. While you are at it would you also let me know what percentage of participation would constitute it no longer being crap? Sir did you take into consideration that the elections for CSM6 & CSM7 took place in the run up to national elections in the United States of America whose citizens seem to do a disproportionately larger slice of the EVE Online player voting compared to their actual percentage of voters? In both those years the USA had a highly charged political situation, and the CSM8 election took place after a national election what we call the "off year" as in a non-presidential election campaign. Quite frequently "Off Year" election turnout is considerably lower. Sir there do exist two separate fields of endeavor which are all too often confused, political science and political punditry. Although some opinions can indeed be facts not all opinions are factually based, you sir would do well to learn the difference. CSM 8 election United States 18894 votes 38.01% of votes 12.72% voters as % of subscribers 36.25% % of subscribers So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money CSM 7 election United States 22114 votes 37.41% of votes 17.36% voters as % of subscribers 35.85% % of subscribers So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before. So a crap election would be 98% voting participation if the previous year had a 99% level ..... I see the basis of your well staked out position. You sir are simply incorrect by any objective standard.
Power To The Players! |
Temba Ronin
215
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:11:00 -
[88] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:CSM 8 election United States 18894 votes 38.01% of votes 12.72% voters as % of subscribers 36.25% % of subscribers So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money CSM 7 election United States 22114 votes 37.41% of votes 17.36% voters as % of subscribers 35.85% % of subscribers So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before. Sir could you please share your analysis for the CSM6 election as well .... unless of course it does not support the position you have taken .... then you can just continue to pretend I was only speaking of two elections and not three.
Power To The Players! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:So a crap election would be 98% voting participation if the previous year had a 99% level ..... I see the basis of your well staked out position. You sir are simply incorrect by any objective standard. Power To The Players! I believe that is refereed to as reductio ad absurdum.
There is a point where a minor drop is of no consequence, but if an election got 99% in one year and then got 75% on the next year, yes that would be bad or for that matter got 16.83% one year and 15.83% the next that is a minor drop. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Frying Doom
2447
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Temba Ronin wrote:Frying Doom wrote:CSM 8 election United States 18894 votes 38.01% of votes 12.72% voters as % of subscribers 36.25% % of subscribers So 36.25% % of subscribers and 38.01% of votes, about on the money CSM 7 election United States 22114 votes 37.41% of votes 17.36% voters as % of subscribers 35.85% % of subscribers So 35.85% % of subscribers and 37.41% of votes. So this election and the last people from the United states voted in a higher percentage than thy were a percentage of the population in csm 6 election, they where 36.88% of the population and cast 36.19% of the vote. So elections in the USA seem to have very little to do with voter turn out in this game. Enough political science for you or was that political punditry. A percentage that is not crap for the CSM elections is one that is higher than the year before. Sir could you please share your analysis for the CSM6 election as well .... unless of course it does not support the position you have taken .... then you can just continue to pretend I was only speaking of two elections and not three.Power To The Players! CSM8 election, CSM7 Election, CSM6 election.
Last time I looked 1+1+1=3
Maybe you have different maths in la la land. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |