EVE Search - Make the exodus come true. Open the floodgates to lawless space.

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Christopher Scott	Posted - 2005.10.06 04:34:00 - [1] I have raised this issue with almost every kind of person from every alliance, past and present, that live in 0.0 space. The vast majority always agree on the same thing: WE WANT MORE PEOPLE IN 0.0 SPACE! You promised to open the floodgates. You promised us the Exodus. You said you would open so many 0.0 routes that it would solve the massive population gap in 0.0 space. You added... how many entrances to each sector of lawless space? One. Just one additional gate to camp for every claimed sector of alliance space. WHATTA F*? Where is the exodus? Where are all these people that are supposed to be pouring into 0.0 space? Oh wait, they are sitting Oursuaert doing level 4 deadspace battleship missions in CONCORD space. Ok seriously, c'mon. You can't be content with how things turned out. This can't be how you had things planned. You have to issue official news bulletins telling people to leave the safest and most profitable agent systems in CONCORD space? Isn't this a perfect sign that risk vs. reward in this game is horribly unbalanced? Nobody wants to leave overcrowed systems because they are the SAFEST ANDMOST PROFITABLE at the same time. Whoooah! Please consider this: Push empire level 4 agents into very low sec and 0.0 space. Empire is supposed to be a safe place for people to get off the ground and prepare themselves for lower security areas. If you have the skills and assets to do level 4 agent missions, especially the hardest ones, you have outgrown the need for CONCORD. Farming battleship spawns in CONCORD space is compareable to 31 year-old John Doe living in his mother's house with a fulltime job. Hey Joe, you can take care of yourself now! Stop leeching off of your momma! For the love of all that is holy, we need more 0.0 entrances! At least 50+ new entrances into 0.0 space, connecting all boarder and mid-sector regions to empire. Backwater should remain as-is. Get rid of multi-region chokepoints!**. The fact that it only takes a small allaince force to claim several regions of space, containing hundreds of abandoned systems, is clear evidence of this problem. All you have to do is look at the alliance map, and the pilots in space. THe proof is right there in front of you. More people are joining this game, yet fewer people are ever leaving empire. The vast majority of space in EVE is unused or not of much intrest, while a fraction of the galaxy contains the vast majority of players. The system map always shows this, every 23 hours of the day every week. Meanwhile CCP are failing to produce stable servers, and are trying rewrite code optimizations and load balancing to handle so many players in such a small fraction of the galaxy. Yet the solution is so obviously clear. Traversing into lawless space has too much risk, while empire has too much reward. They need to be rebalanced. Once this is done, the true "Exodus" will come.
Christopher Scott Caldari	Posted - 2005.10.06 04:34:00 - [2] I have raised this issue with almost every kind of person from every alliance, past and present, that live in 0.0 space. The vast majority always agree on the same thing: WE WANT MORE PEOPLE IN 0.0 SPACE! You promised to open the floodgates. You promised us the Exodus. You said you would open so many 0.0 routes that it would solve the massive population gap in 0.0 space. You added... how many entrances to each sector of lawless space? One. Just one additional gate to camp for every claimed sector of alliance space. WHATTA F*? Where is the exodus? Where are all these people that are supposed to be pouring into 0.0 space? Oh wait, they are sitting Oursuaert doing level 4 deadspace battleship missions in CONCORD space. Ok seriously, c'mon. You can't be content with how things turned out. This can't be how you had things planned. You have to issue official news bulletins telling people to leave the safest and most profitable agent systems in CONCORD space? Isn't this a perfect sign that risk vs. reward in this game is horribly unbalanced? Nobody wants to leave overcrowed systems because they are the SAFEST ANDMOST PROFITABLE at the same time. Whoooah! Please consider this: Push empire level 4 agents into very low sec and 0.0 space. Empire is supposed to be a safe place for people to get off the ground and prepare themselves for lower security areas. If you have the skills and assets to do level 4 agent missions, especially the hardest ones, you have outgrown the need for CONCORD. Farming battleship spawns in CONCORD space is compareable to 31 year-old John Doe living in his mother's house with a fulltime job. Hey Joe, you can take care of yourself now! Stop leeching off of your momma! For the love of all that is holy, we need more 0.0 entrances! At least 50+ new entrances into 0.0 space, connecting all boarder and mid-sector regions to empire. Backwater should remain as-is. Get rid of multi-region chokepoints!**. The fact that it only takes a small allaince force to claim several regions of space, containing hundreds of abandoned systems, is clear evidence of this problem. All you have to do is look at the alliance map, and the pilots in space. THe proof is right there in front of you. More people are joining this game, yet fewer people are ever leaving empire. The vast majority of space in EVE is unused or not of much intrest, while a fraction of the galaxy contains the vast majority of players. The system map always shows this, every 23 hours of the day every week. Meanwhile CCP are failing to produce stable servers, and are trying rewrite code optimizations and load balancing to handle so many players in such a small fraction of the galaxy. Yet the solution is so obviously clear. Traversing into lawless space has too much risk, while empire has too much reward. They need to be rebalanced. Once this is done, the true "Exodus" will come. ------------------------------------ I support the following changes: Make warp acceleration faster!
eLLioTT wave	Posted - 2005.10.06 16:05:00 - [3] ...but i'm happy in essence. Sure Oursulaert is overcrowded but that's its appeal, it's "the place to be" in Gallente space. Why should i move to 0.0? I like to be able to meet up with friends in the game, to be able to meet new friendly people. If we were all spread out into 0.0 like you say then i wouldn't be able to meet up and do things with other people in my 600+ new player corp. Perhaps if there was more rewards in 0.0 as you suggest and less risk it might be intresting. Why do you think people live in cities where there's low crime rates? Even expereinced people don't want to be watching their back the whole time they're playing. imho
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2005.10.06 16:05:00 - [4] ...but i'm happy in essence. Sure Oursulaert is overcrowded but that's its appeal, it's "the place to be" in Gallente space. Why should i move to 0.0? I like to be able to meet up with friends in the game, to be able to meet new friendly people. If we were all spread out into 0.0 like you say then i wouldn't be able to meet up and do things with other people in my 600+ new player corp. Perhaps if there was more rewards in 0.0 as you suggest and less risk it might be intresting. Why do you think people live in cities where there's low crime rates? Even expereinced people don't want to be watching their back the whole time they're playing. imho
Sgt Blade	Posted - 2005.10.06 17:38:00 - [5] personally u can never push more people into 0.0 space, mabey in the early stages of eve but now... no way. If there were more 0.0 space and more gates to enter it and even more reasons to go to 0.0 eg get uber rich the mining rattin etc no one will....it still will not work. Unless your in a alliance which has its owm secure space, people will not be able to get into 0.0. Big alliances will take its space and open up the NBSI policies. Thjey do this so they can keep their space and spy will not be able to get in and cause trouble. More 0.0 space = more space for big alliances to go to and even then if the big alliances dont take it, a new alliance will spring up and take it. Only way i can think of moving people out and to not make it croweded is to extend empire. The only way i can think that ccp can do this is slowly (over time) increase the sec of 0.0 towards 0.4-0.7 and create more 0.0 towards the outside for the allaices to move out to. this will make empire the EMPIRE, old 0.0 will be a ring of low sec around the empire and another ring of NEW 0.0 around that hmm just a thought but u never know might be a good idea
Sgt Blade Dark Entropy	Posted - 2005.10.06 17:38:00 - [6] personally u can never push more people into 0.0 space, mabey in the early stages of eve but now... no way. If there were more 0.0 space and more gates to enter it and even more reasons to go to 0.0 eg get uber rich the mining rattin etc no one will....it still will not work. Unless your in a alliance which has its owm secure space, people will not be able to get into 0.0. Big alliances will take its space and open up the NBSI policies. Thjey do this so they can keep their space and spy will not be able to get in and cause trouble. More 0.0 space = more space for big alliances to go to and even then if the big alliances dont take it, a new alliance will spring up and take it. Only way i can think of moving people out and to not make it croweded is to extend empire. The only way i can think that ccp can do this is slowly (over time) increase the sec of 0.0 towards 0.4-0.7 and create more 0.0 towards the outside for the allaices to move out to. this will make empire the EMPIRE, old 0.0 will be a ring of low sec around the empire and another ring of NEW 0.0 around that hmm just a thought but u never know might be a good idea Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.06 18:33:00 - [7] Exhibit A on why more people aren't in 0.0. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=232864 The reason 0.0 doesn't have more people has more to do with you (used as a general term, not you personally) and your mates than it does with lack of incentives. --- Natural Selection Works.
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2005.10.06 18:33:00 - [8] Exhibit A on why more people aren't in 0.0. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=232864 The reason 0.0 doesn't have more people has more to do with you (used as a general term, not you personally) and your mates than it does with lack of incentives.
Draenor Thalander	Posted - 2005.10.06 20:16:00 - [9] Honestly, ship and podkilling should always give at a penalty to security rating, even in 0.0 space. The exception to which are those at -2.0 or negative with a bounty. This would make security rating useful, so the "carebare" types can make a better effort to make 0.0 space safe. That way they know who the threats are and can kill those instead of following the "it's not blue shoot it". It would also discourage the NBSI policies since these policies would make pilots unable to enter empire space. That is, if they want to be xenophobic, then they won't be allowed in empire space, either.
Draenor Thalander	Posted - 2005.10.06 20:16:00 - [10] Honestly, ship and podkilling should always give at a penalty to security rating, even in 0.0 space. The exception to which are those at -2.0 or negative with a bounty. This would make security rating useful, so the "carebare" types can make a better effort to make 0.0 space safe. That way they know who the threats are and can kill those instead of following the "it's not blue shoot it". It would also discourage the NBSI policies since these policies would make pilots unable to enter empire space. That is, if they want to be xenophobic, then they won't be allowed in empire space, either.
JoeSomebody	Posted - 2005.10.06 21:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Draenor Thalander Honestly, ship and podkilling should always give at a penalty to security rating, even in 0.0 space. The exception to which are those at -2.0 or negative with a bounty. This would make security rating useful, so the "carebare" types can make a better effort to make 0.0 space safe. That way they know who the threats are and can kill those instead of following the "it's not blue shoot it". It would also discourage the NBSI policies since these policies would make pilots unable to enter empire space. That is, if they want to be xenophobic, then they won't be allowed in empire space, either. people use alts to haul stuff from empire anyway ____ Petition: Nerf alts!
JoeSomebody Black Storm Clan	Posted - 2005.10.06 21:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Draenor Thalander Honestly, ship and podkilling should always give at a penalty to security rating, even in 0.0 space. The exception to which are those at -2.0 or negative with a bounty. This would make security rating useful, so the "carebare" types can make a better effort to make 0.0 space safe. That way they know who the threats are and can kill those instead of following the "it's not blue shoot it". It would also discourage the NBSI policies since these policies would make pilots unable to enter empire space. That is, if they want to be xenophobic, then they won't be allowed in empire space, either. people use alts to haul stuff from empire anyway
Justin Thyme	Posted - 2005.10.07 00:39:00 - [13] Edited by: Justin Thyme on 07/10/2005 00:40:21 Edited by: Justin Thyme on 07/10/2005 00:39:51 0.5 and up is not just to get ready for low space. Some of us actualy just don't want to be involved in PVP. And realy we should not have to deal with Gate camping Gankers just to do a level 4 mission. And no i'm not saying you are one. I'm saying that is anouther reason we don't move down to low space. "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin thyme
Justin Thyme Gallente The Salvage and Reclamation Guild	Posted - 2005.10.07 00:39:00 - [14] Edited by: Justin Thyme on 07/10/2005 00:40:21 Edited by: Justin Thyme on 07/10/2005 00:39:51 0.5 and up is not just to get ready for low space. Some of us actualy just don't want to be involved in PVP. And realy we should not have to deal with Gate camping Gankers just to do a level 4 mission. And no i'm not saying you are one. I'm saying that is anouther reason we don't move down to low space. "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme
Magnum III	Posted - 2005.10.07 01:30:00 - [15] Yes more routs out to 0.0, in other words more routs so less bottle necks. CCP please think of a better way for us to fight then at bottle necks and gate camping. Give us more reasons to fight and allow more routs to 0.0
Magnum III Journey On Squad	Posted - 2005.10.07 01:30:00 - [16] Yes more routs out to 0.0, in other words more routs so less bottle necks. CCP please think of a better way for us to fight then at bottle necks and gate camping. Give us more reasons to fight and allow more routs to 0.0
Christopher Scott	Posted - 2005.10.07 04:13:00 - [17] Originally by: Justin Thyme 0.5 and up is not just to get ready for low space. Some of us actualy just don't want to be involved in PVP. And realy we should not have to deal with Gate camping Gankers just to do a level 4 mission. And no i'm not saying you are one. I'm saying that is anouther reason we don't move down to low space. EVE is a PvP game. Everyone who bought a subscription on day one was sold on this being a total PvP game. Whether it's fighting over space, resources, or market control, there would always be a player versus player element. Agent missions in CONCORD space add NOTHING to the player versus player element. You can become rich and powerful, with all of the best gear, by doing nothing but deadspace agents. You NEVER have to talk to another player, nor will you ever face any sort of competition. This is fine when you are starting out and learning the game. But when you can spawn on-demand deadspace battleship comlexes that help you earn faction battleships in CONCORD protected space, with absolutely NO KIND of player versus player element possible, that is going way too far. When a complete PvE aspect of the game becomes more practical and profitable than all the other PvP aspects, then EVE is nothing more than World Of Warcraft in space. Agent missions are the most unbalanced moneymaker in this game. All of the agent hubs are being camped so hard that CCP has to spread them out in order to fix all the cluster******* that is going on. If that is not a blaring siren to the problem, I don't know what else will convince you. Are there any 5/10 or 6/10 complexes in CONCORD space? What would people say if CCP moved all the 6/10 complexes into .5 sec and up?
Christopher Scott Caldari	Posted - 2005.10.07 04:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Justin Thyme 0.5 and up is not just to get ready for low space. Some of us actualy just don't want to be involved in PVP. And realy we should not have to deal with Gate camping Gankers just to do a level 4 mission. And no i'm not saying you are one. I'm saying that is anouther reason we don't move down to low space. EVE is a PvP game. Everyone who bought a subscription on day one was sold on this being a total PvP game. Whether it's fighting over space, resources, or market control, there would always be a player versus player element. Agent missions in CONCORD space add NOTHING to the player versus player element. You can become rich and powerful, with all of the best gear, by doing nothing but deadspace agents. You NEVER have to talk to another player, nor will you ever face any sort of competition. This is fine when you are starting out and learning the game. But when you can spawn on-demand deadspace battleship comlexes that help you earn faction battleships in CONCORD protected space, with absolutely NO KIND of player versus player element possible, that is going way too far. When a complete PvE aspect of the game becomes more practical and profitable than all the other PvP aspects, then EVE is nothing more than World Of Warcraft in space. Agent missions are the most unbalanced moneymaker in this game. All of the agent hubs are being camped so hard that CCP has to spread them out in order to fix all the cluster******* that is going on. If that is not a blaring siren to the problem, I don't know what else will convince you. Are there any 5/10 or 6/10 complexes in CONCORD space? What would people say if CCP moved all the 6/10 complexes into .5 sec and up? ------------------------------------ I support the following changes: Make warp acceleration faster!
Christopher Scott	Posted - 2005.10.07 04:16:00 - [19] Quote: Perhaps if there was more rewards in 0.0 as you suggest and less risk it might be intresting. Why do you think people live in cities where there's low crime rates? You might want to re-think that question. Crime follows the population, not the other way around. LA? NYC? Chicago? Miami? Eh?
Christopher Scott Caldari	Posted - 2005.10.07 04:16:00 - [20] Quote: Perhaps if there was more rewards in 0.0 as you suggest and less risk it might be intresting. Why do you think people live in cities where there's low crime rates? You might want to re-think that question. Crime follows the population, not the other way around. LA? NYC? Chicago? Miami? Eh? ------------------------------------ I support the following changes: Make warp acceleration faster!
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2005.10.07 06:11:00 - [21] Could please someone give me a link where CCP states that the EVE is PVP-only game.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2005.10.07 06:11:00 - [22] Could please someone give me a link where CCP states that the EVE is PVP-only game.
Justin Thyme	Posted - 2005.10.07 13:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Could please someone give me a link where CCP states that the EVE is PVP-only game. I'd like to see that as well. Cause if it was PVP only then you would have NO choice about PVP at all. "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin thyme
Justin Thyme Gallente The Salvage and Reclamation Guild	Posted - 2005.10.07 13:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Could please someone give me a link where CCP states that the EVE is PVP-only game. I'd like to see that as well. Cause if it was PVP only then you would have NO choice about PVP at all. "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme
Dhejay Centrix	Posted - 2005.10.07 15:59:00 - [25] EvE is geared towards PvP. It say so on the back of the box... Just stop thinking of PvP in terms of pure combat and now think of market supremacy, politics, competing for resources, logging on early so you can get those commanders/complex bosses before someone else. The whole game is PvP. That said, there does need to be a better incentive for people to live in 0.0 so yeah come on CCP... Unlock those jump gates and let us get there without getting popped. At the moment it's too easy to stay in empire earning 100mil+ a week from trading (without trying too hard) and then venture into 0.0 occasionally when looking for a fight. I should point out right now (Devs I'm looking your way now) the way to get round this should NOT involve nerfing the hell out of the empire economy.
Dhejay Centrix	Posted - 2005.10.07 15:59:00 - [26] EvE is geared towards PvP. It say so on the back of the box... Just stop thinking of PvP in terms of pure combat and now think of market supremacy, politics, competing for resources, logging on early so you can get those commanders/complex bosses before someone else. The whole game is PvP. That said, there does need to be a better incentive for people to live in 0.0 so yeah come on CCP... Unlock those jump gates and let us get there without getting popped. At the moment it's too easy to stay in empire earning 100mil+ a week from trading (without trying too hard) and then venture into 0.0 occasionally when looking for a fight. I should point out right now (Devs I'm looking your way now) the way to get round this should NOT involve nerfing the hell out of the empire economy.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2005.10.07 19:37:00 - [27] this game is as much player driven as a game could be! but things like agents imo are just here till we are ready for player made missions... npc agents will hopefully remain as noob stuff ... all the advanced and elite stuff should be put into 0.0! read this to get a clue Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal Caldari Burn Proof	Posted - 2005.10.07 19:37:00 - [28] this game is as much player driven as a game could be! but things like agents imo are just here till we are ready for player made missions... npc agents will hopefully remain as noob stuff ... all the advanced and elite stuff should be put into 0.0! read this to get a clue Greetings Grim
Jolal	Posted - 2005.10.07 23:14:00 - [29] Note: long read ahead... Coles Notes Version: don't make empire less attractive, make 0.0 even more attractive... I agree with about halve the stuff that's in here. The game is PvP in the sense that you have to interact with people to do things. People who say mission runners don't help the pvp aspect, ask that mission runner if they've ever price hunted for a battleship. That there is feeding the price competitivness of the market. I've always wanted to go to 0.0 since about a month into the game, yet for almost a year I stayed safely in Empire...Recently I've accepted an offer from an aliance where I pay them for access and they protect my assets. I have no interest what so ever is mining for 2 weeks (I have RL commitments too) just to fly into 0.0 and get ganked in the first system! Part of my deal to get down here was that they made me insta's, if they nerf those I'm going back to Empire and staying there. The solution as someone said is not, let me clear my throat here ahem, NOT to nerf empire. That would take away from the game, everytime that is done people want to stop playing. The answer is to make 0.0 more attractive. Easier access (more gates) is one way to do so. Penalties for killing in the first few systems away from empire (cuz there's nothing overly valuable there) will get people into the first systems. If you've got good standing, there should be something. Say since you get an insurance payout, they get an insurance rate increase, or their next payout is taxed more or something. Something you can do in 0.0 but not in Empire other than killing eachother would do it. Now reading these forums for the past while, i know that people can come up with some good idea's. How about in approx 1 in every 5 of the systems has some sort of huge nebulae that you could warp into where sensors are dampened? Tracking is harder, warp scramblers disabled, webifiers not having such a great effect, non stable locks where they keep having to relock every so often. This would provide a semi-safe area where scanners can't find you and your not docked in a station... We know the game has a lot of miners/industrial people in it. Someone has to make the BS's... How about making it take longer to lock a mining barge (cuz we know they're slow to warp away)? This effect would be both for human players and npc's. This would attract more people into 0.0. We know that mining barges aren't going to be used in fleet battles, and they make bad spy boats. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying make them invulnerable, but stick an apoc and a covetor in the same system in 0.0 and I'd be willing to bet money on the outcome
Jolal	Posted - 2005.10.07 23:14:00 - [30] Note: long read ahead... Coles Notes Version: don't make empire less attractive, make 0.0 even more attractive... I agree with about halve the stuff that's in here. The game is PvP in the sense that you have to interact with people to do things. People who say mission runners don't help the pvp aspect, ask that mission runner if they've ever price hunted for a battleship. That there is feeding the price competitivness of the market. I've always wanted to go to 0.0 since about a month into the game, yet for almost a year I stayed safely in Empire...Recently I've accepted an offer from an aliance where I pay them for access and they protect my assets. I have no interest what so ever is mining for 2 weeks (I have RL commitments too) just to fly into 0.0 and get ganked in the first system! Part of my deal to get down here was that they made me insta's, if they nerf those I'm going back to Empire and staying there. The solution as someone said is not, let me clear my throat here ahem, NOT to nerf empire. That would take away from the game, everytime that is done people want to stop playing. The answer is to make 0.0 more attractive. Easier access (more gates) is one way to do so. Penalties for killing in the first few systems away from empire (cuz there's nothing overly valuable there) will get people into the first systems. If you've got good standing, there should be something. Say since you get an insurance payout, they get an insurance rate increase, or their next payout is taxed more or something. Something you can do in 0.0 but not in Empire other than killing eachother would do it. Now reading these forums for the past while, i know that people can come up with some good idea's. How about in approx 1 in every 5 of the systems has some sort of huge nebulae that you could warp into where sensors are dampened? Tracking is harder, warp scramblers disabled, webifiers not having such a great effect, non stable locks where they keep having to relock every so often. This would provide a semi-safe area where scanners can't find you and your not docked in a station... We know the game has a lot of miners/industrial people in it. Someone has to make the BS's... How about making it take longer to lock a mining barge (cuz we know they're slow to warp away)? This effect would be both for human players and npc's. This would attract more people into 0.0. We know that mining barges aren't going to be used in fleet battles, and they make bad spy boats. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying make them invulnerable, but stick an apoc and a covetor in the same system in 0.0 and I'd be willing to bet money on the outcome

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