I'll be giving my kid my .22 when it turns 4 but I plan to actually raise it and do that thing that makes kids not shoot people.... parenting I think it's called?

Personally I am more disturbed by his attempted **** of his own mother. Seriously, who the hell does that?

Somewhere out there Jack Thompson is jizzing himself right now.


As for the firearm comment, I received my .22 when I was ten, but my parents taught me about discipline and safety. Never once did I have the urge to go grab it each time my parents grounded me, which was almost a daily occurrence mind you, and 24 years later I still have that rifle and both parents. I know it can be hard to comprehend, but kids can be responsible and not immediately turn into a little Kim Jong the second they're handed a firearm.
Personally I am more disturbed by his attempted **** of his own mother. Seriously, who the hell does that?

stories like this make me not ever want to have children. well that and the whole misery of being pregnant thing. seems to me people aren't even allowed to be parents anymore. you discipline a child...it's physical abuse. you threaten them with the possibility of discipline...it's psychological abuse. you verbally scold them...it's verbal abuse.

they aren't allowed to be wrong. they aren't allowed to lose.

and if you dare to attempt contradicting that standard by actually punishing or scolding a child, you'll have some nosy ******* neighbor calling the social workers on you. parents can't win these days.

this has been going on for a long time already and we see the results in the paper, in the grocery store, at the movie theater and walking down the street everyday.

I'll be giving my kid my .22 when it turns 4 but I plan to actually raise it and do that thing that makes kids not shoot people.... parenting I think it's called?

I am pretty sure that it is called "blanks" or "locking away the ammo".

Just stumbled over this Youtube video about a kid sexually assaulting his mother and then shooting her with a rifle because she took away his copy of Call of Duty.

Video in question

The article about it

This is seriously disturbing news, and I just can't help but wonder what the heck were their parents thinking when they gave their at the time 11 year old kid a lethal firearm. And I sure damn hope that no politician will instantly jump on the Violent-Video-Games-Are-Bad-And-Should-Be-Banned bandwagon.

Two things, parental upbringing and antipsychotic drugs (side-effects).
Either or both can turn anyone into a crazy/zombie.

You don't need a gun to kill in a rage. Baseball bats, kitchen knife etc. etc. can be just as efficient.
The type of weapon used is irrelevant.

Antipsychotic drugs were not mentioned in the article unless I missed it.
Although the older generation of neuroleptics have severe side effects (most notably movement disorders and sedation) spontaneous eruptions of violence are not amongst them and are usually rather a symptom of the disorder that led to this medication in the first place.

I think we can all agree that giving this nutjob access to a firearm was not a very smart thing to do.

I think we can all agree that giving this nutjob access to a firearm was not a very smart thing to do.

I'll be giving my kid my .22 when it turns 4 but I plan to actually raise it and do that thing that makes kids not shoot people.... parenting I think it's called?

5-year-old Kentucky boy fatally shoots 2-year-old sister
"A Kentucky mother stepped outside of her home just for a few minutes, but it was long enough for her 5-year-old son to accidentally shoot and kill his 2-year-old sister with the .22-caliber rifle he got for his birthday, state officials said."

If you're dumb enough to let your kids kill each other, that's fine. However, if your stupidity were to get *my* kid killed...

What's the effective killing range of a .22, neighbor?

And now we are going into the pro/anti gun debate which has been disallowed from the forums. Time to lock this one.

Words fail me except OMG, Poor woman. Awful.

If individual parents can't be trusted to keep their kids away from M rated violent shooters, or to keep their kids from shooting off a gun randomly, when is it permissible for society to step in?

At the risk of being very unpopular....

This holds true across the spectrum with people being fundamentally broken by their parents. Reading the childhood of the Norwegian mass shooter Anders Breivik.... Seems that that entire thing could have been avoided if his far more mentally stable and reliable father (a diplomat in the Norwegian civil service) been awarded custody over his mother. I'm fairly certain the details aren't for on these forums, but even a cursory glance its a wonder he didn't snap sooner.

I know of one postpartum mom who tried to drown her kid in a steam, went to a psych clinic, got out, sued for custody from the father and got it, even before she had slept around on the father while they were married. This is with the child protests to stay with the father whom is the only parent they knew.

Courts are fundamentally biased towards mothers even sometimes at the child's peril.

At the risk of being very unpopular....

This holds true across the spectrum with people being fundamentally broken by their parents. Reading the childhood of the Norwegian mass shooter Anders Breivik.... Seems that that entire thing could have been avoided if his far more mentally stable and reliable father (a diplomat in the Norwegian civil service) been awarded custody over his mother. I'm fairly certain the details aren't for on these forums, but even a cursory glance its a wonder he didn't snap sooner.

Depends how crappy your walls are.

I'll be giving my kid my .22 when it turns 4 but I plan to actually raise it and do that thing that makes kids not shoot people.... parenting I think it's called?

There's no harm in teaching them young, but 4 is incredibly irresponsible.

This kind of murky anecdote floats around too much and frankly, I've never seen it substantiated. Every single killer I've ever heard of had some kind of abusive past. Even the so-called "warrior genes," aren't fully expressed unless the carrier is exposed to a LOT of duress in their formative years.

Sure, every initial news report is "oh I never knew this person would do such a thing-" but the in-depth investigation always turns up some fantastically messed up childhood.

Of course you can simply wring your hands and say that mental-illness is some mystical unknown, but that doesn't explain anything and in-fact seeks to obscure the verifiable hypotheses that could shed some light on the situation.

Courts are fundamentally biased towards mothers even sometimes at the child's peril.

On the ammo box it says a .22 LR can travel up to 2 miles if fired at the right angle

Like respect and discipline? It seems like almost all children lack those two things now days.

On the ammo box it says a .22 LR can travel up to 2 miles if fired at the right angle

This is a case of a child whose parents believe in the following:

1) Positive Reinforcement
2) Time Out for punishment
3) Being more of a friend with their child than an authority figure

In short - they raised a spoiled brat with no sense of accountability who acted on impulses since he did not have the discipline to think things through first.

I am so glad that in the 19 years my wife and I have been married, we opted not to have children. I didn't feel like explaining to the police that, "Yes" I did spank the child as they were being way out of line. Yes, I did take away their cellphone, delete their facebook & twitter accounts, and I took their computer to reformat it and donate it to either a school or some other organization or family in need.

Then I would have to deal with DHR and Child Services.

Nope - not for me.

I got my butt whipped when I was a kid. I feared consequences. I feared my father's reaction. I respected their authority. This fear activated the part of my brain that controlled discipline.

The family in this article (RIP to the mom), had none of that. The sad part is - there's a whole generation of parents just like this raising a generation of kids.

Joy.

This is a case of a child whose parents believe in the following:

1) Positive Reinforcement
2) Time Out for punishment
3) Being more of a friend with their child than an authority figure

In short - they raised a spoiled brat with no sense of accountability who acted on impulses since he did not have the discipline to think things through first.

I am so glad that in the 19 years my wife and I have been married, we opted not to have children. I didn't feel like explaining to the police that, "Yes" I did spank the child as they were being way out of line. Yes, I did take away their cellphone, delete their facebook & twitter accounts, and I took their computer to reformat it and donate it to either a school or some other organization or family in need.

Then I would have to deal with DHR and Child Services.

Nope - not for me.

I got my butt whipped when I was a kid. I feared consequences. I feared my father's reaction. I respected their authority. This fear activated the part of my brain that controlled discipline.

The family in this article (RIP to the mom), had none of that. The sad part is - there's a whole generation of parents just like this raising a generation of kids.

Joy.

In short, I parent. And they will be the better for it.

Offering a thought I've had for years, there should be National service like in Israel and Germany. I would be inside of this age group and would go for it.

So ultimately we all seem to be trending towards a conclusion here.

Discipline is an issue and parents are refusing to do it.

Offering a thought I've had for years, there should be National service like in Israel and Germany. I would be inside of this age group and would go for it.

I'v often thought about that too, but here in the USA that would be very expensive and would probably violate the constitution.

We had something roughly equivalent. It was called a Draft. But that was a long time ago.

In 1988, my 15 year old younger brother was shot and killed in a stupid gun accident. Two other boys of similar age were involved and ALL of them had attended and passed gun safety training. All of them were also boy scouts and came from good homes where parenting actually did take place.

Just knowing gun safety is not enough.

Sometimes, parenting isn't enough.

Expensive, but useful, IMO.

I can't speak for America, but I think its worth it regardless. The costs of not fixing this mess could be colossal in the long run. We have business's run by people who do not have a vested interest in their own nation, we have a systematic lack of discipline as shown in classrooms where teachers are beaten and are considered the perpetrators if they defend themselves. We have similar crime issues here as in the US, but replace knives with guns.

There was no immediate benefit to going to the Moon other than the results of lessons on the journey. I suspect that there are too many people who would be embarrassed by a return to the old education styles, and I might be in the minority of my own preferred education style. I do not like learning things by hypothetical's, give me stuff to work with. Show me an issue and then a new mathematical trick or 5 and let me crack it out the hard way, that's how to build understanding.

Bascialy I think the education system needs to be rethought. If you don't learn from the way thats prescribed, you fail. If you fail, you go into depressions, and from there everything can compound and you snap like that.

If individual parents can't be trusted to keep their kids away from M rated violent shooters, or to keep their kids from shooting off a gun randomly, when is it permissible for society to step in?

I'll be giving my kid my .22 when it turns 4 but I plan to actually raise it and do that thing that makes kids not shoot people.... parenting I think it's called?

"It"

Well if I said he and it turned out to be a girl I'd look like an ass

Well if I said he and it turned out to be a girl I'd look like an ass

Didn't know Mrs Plunderbunny was expecting, congratulations

If the kid played EvE, he would have gotten some friends together and then smacktalked his mother from the yard, and they would have all jumped on her when she walked out of the house.

We've got bad budget problems. Adding this would be a bank-breaker now. In some future time, when we've got our acocunts in-balance, I'd agree.

(and ludicrous imperial military spending)

The bold part is important. And don't think I'm being flippant because I have no idea what you went through. My oldest brother died in a car accident at the very same age. Sometimes parenting has noting to do with it, but those things are accidents which are not preventable. They have absolutely nothing in common with a sociopath murdering someone deliberately.

The family in this article (RIP to the mom), had none of that. The sad part is - there's a whole generation of parents just like this raising a generation of kids.

Joy.

This is a blatant assumption, just saying. This kid could just be a ****** up piece of **** that did not like the discipline. She did not let the kid keep the game when he proved that he was unable to balance recreation and school. She had this happen to her because she punished the child. How do you not know that this women constantly punished this unstable child and the child finally broke bad? The father said that the mother was the primary disciplinarian, that they fought all the time and that the son had even told him that he wanted to kill his mother. That does not sound like a warm and fuzzy relationship, even if they did 'make up' and be cool with each other after their altercations.

With this came feminization. The schools began to value feelings over learning anything. Dodge ball and freeze tag became violence and heartless competition, giving way to cooperative group activities led by a caring adult. The female preference for security over freedom set in like a hard frost. We became afraid of second-hand smoke and swimming pools with a deep end. As women got in touch with their inner totalitarian, we began to outlaw large soft drinks and any word or expression that might offend anyone.

[An Official EVE-Online Forums Good Post]

IHere be win and maybe dragons.

I feel like I'm surrounded by idiots half the time, and delusional special pansies the other half.

I can kill you with my bare hands, I can kill you at up to 600 yards away given the right weapon, but I won't, the respect I have for both human life, and how fragile it is, as well as my upbringing, and obviously not being a total nutjob stop me from doing it, no matter how much some people deserve it.

Honestly PhDs and MScs are a dime a dozen for these kinds of ventures. What theyre short of afaik are people who're good with their hands.

Go learn to weld and you'll be well in.

I was a "dodge-baller" too.

Grew up with a three-wheeled ATV (the precursor to quad-bikes), rode that sucker everyday for hours and hours...I could go on, but...

I wonder:

Are we the last of our kind?

Because it does seem that way, and that genuinely makes meh haz a sad :(

As for this British game of "Fox and Hounds", the closest thing I could think of was a game (named might differ by region) called "Kill the guy with the ball". Simple and to the point. If you had the ball, everybody was out to dogpile you. If you gave up the ball, someone else got it, and then he was the target. If you had a chance to get the ball but didn't pick it up, insults and dishonor would be heaped upon your name probably until you left for college years later (or so it seemed at that time).

As for this British game of "Fox and Hounds", the closest thing I could think of was a game (named might differ by region) called "Kill the guy with the ball". Simple and to the point. If you had the ball, everybody was out to dogpile you. If you gave up the ball, someone else got it, and then he was the target. If you had a chance to get the ball but didn't pick it up, insults and dishonor would be heaped upon your name probably until you left for college years later (or so it seemed at that time).

Sounds like British Bulldog with less sneaky kicking.

Besides when i did PE if your clothes werent dirty you had to run 3 laps.

Kicking was considered effete. Proper play was to get right into the middle of things. Arm and head locks, elbows to the face and ribs, and the good ol' fashioned head-first flying gang-tackle. Your typical rugby player would recognize it immediately, save for the lack of team play.

No laps for not getting dirty, but if you didn't do *something* that made you a mess, your social standing plummeted. Social pressure is a stone ***** to evade. Tether-ball was a popular alternative. The real object was to get the ball moving fast enough to smack the other player in the face. Or clothes-line them. Bonus points if you knocked them to the pavement. Plus, that was one of the few games where it was fair to hit a girl. Of course, they hit back... and hard.Hell, even four-square turned into a contact sport.


Edit:
The runner in S-the-Q could get away with clipping people with his feet - He's running after all, so it's going to happen.
Also: S-the-Q played in the snow is much more brutal than any other kids' game I know. When your body parts are right on the verge of frostbite, impacts hurt in a way you can't expect until it happens to you the first time.

More edit:
Almost forgot about King-of-the-Hill, and its more brutal cousin: King-of-the-Hill played on bare iron monkey bars. Over pavement.

Come to think of it, by today's standards, it's amazing any of us lived. On the other hand, broken bones were rare and fascinating things - they almost never happened, and never at school - Skiing, or rock-climbing, or horseback riding... those the kinds of things that busted limbs. Not school play.

Kicking is a fully respectable when punching is more likely to hit one of your own. Besides, its weird to punch someone in the nuts.

King of the hill here was literally a hill and a fort made of plywood. Good times. Got even better when we were older and got paintball guns.

Edit.

And since we were brought up well by our folks we never once thought "hey... i can take out someones eye if theyre not wearing a mask" and maintained proper rifle discipline such as game off no loaded paintballs and never, ever, ever pointing it at someones face. Although shooting them in the foot was always a laugh.

The Northeast is a strange place. Basically, kids are raised like veal cows. They hardly do anything. There's no resources or logistics for it. Since the late 1980s, "helicopter parenting' became all the rage. That's when kids started wearing helmets to ride tricycles. Back in the 70s, we didn't wear helmets. Some of us ended up in the hospital because of it. Nobody died.

Kicking is a fully respectable when punching is more likely to hit one of your own. Besides, its weird to punch someone in the nuts.

King of the hill here was literally a hill and a fort made of plywood. Good times. Got even better when we were older and got paintball guns.

And since we were brought up well by our folks we never once thought "hey... i can take out someones eye if theyre not wearing a mask" and maintained proper rifle discipline such as game off no loaded paintballs and never, ever, ever pointing it at someones face. Although shooting them in the foot was always a laugh.

I wonder if a group of Romans before it all got pillaged had similar conversations on the youth being too soft and ill disciplined?

Do you really think the redcoats are going to march Bunker Hill again?

Paintball with Marines is fun, there is no "out" and no one stops shooting.... ever

I wonder if a group of Romans before it all got pillaged had similar conversations on the youth being too soft and ill disciplined?

What i never understood is amercans obsession with firearms Do
you really think the redcoats are going to march up Bunker Hill again
and lastly Guns do not belong in the hands of kids no matter how well you try to raise them

Switzerland has the highest gun ownership per capita in the world.

Its Americas culture that's ****** up and has guns in circulation, not a problem with the guns themselves. Switzerland hasn't been invaded and even the ****'s didn't step foot inside knowing ever man was legally obliged to have a gun, ammo and take marksmanship training.

Silens covers the American side better than what I had typed up.

That said Australia and the UK prove you can disarm a gun loving nation without much trouble, took 3 months from proposal to no the firearms buyback after a mass shooting in Australia, so if the US government chose to do so there is already a precedent for disarmament successfully.

Also have you seen the 3d printer panic? Theres proposals to regulate and monitor usage of 3d printers. It's as if these people didn't know that you can build guns pretty easily, but those bullets are a bit more difficult.

Childhood

Youth

Adulthood

One should not give first two groups weapons except in 'controlled' situations when you send em to kill other ppl for oil and such.

or it will end up in news making us look bad.

Generally I don't like criticising other countries internal things....

But there appears to be a systematic problem. Both parents working full time, no time to parent. They both work full time to pay the bills which are relatively higher than they were 30 years ago due to wage stagnation. Even the US Navy considers this to be one of the biggest defence related problems : lack of a competent citizenry to train.

At the moment the US is treading water, but the initiative is in Asia now, lets not even begin talking about the EU... We don't think a war could happen at all due to the safety bubble, heck thats why Russia of 140M and an economy made of Wensleydale is a military match for the EU, 500M and the largest economy on Earth, how the hell does that work out?

I suppose what I'm getting at is that this is a symptom of issues, not the core issue itself. Stabalise the economy, crack down on the wealth distribution problem by investing in the bottom up. The ironic thing is that the left which would be the most likely to have reason to rebel against the government at the moment are the ones against the means to conduct said rebellion.

TAFTA is going to make things very, very interesting. Negotiations ongoing about creating a free trade block between the EFTA and NAFTA states. My inner geopolitical armchair general is screaming incoming unified Western World

Silens, I looked up Australian rebellions, there have been q few but not on the scale as the US ones I think, but Australia was founded as a Penal colony so pretty much everyone sent in the initial waves were criminals against the Crown. Whether the people whose crimes would be considered petty theft by today's standards is another thing, but I hope you get what I mean.

Positive Reinforcement - The act of being friends with your children and nurturing the notion that everything they do is wonderful and they are very special in the world. Screw that. Children should have a healthy fear of what Mom & Dad are gonna do to them if they do something they know they shouldn't. They also should earn the tI didn't become friends with my parents until after I had moved out and made my own life.

My future kid won't ever shoot anyone because of the "daddy will beat the **** out of me" factor

Clearly, you're without a frame of reference. I don't expect you to understand it. Just know that from where we sit, you're are also without anything constructive to say for that lack of a frame of reference.

It's not redcoats we fear. Its our own government. We've rebelled against it repeatedly, and whilst the 'government' has won every confrontation, government policy has lost every time save once (the American Civil War).

Whiskey rebelion - Against George Washington's administration. George was forced to send peace negotiatiors, coundn't find the rebels despite calling up the militia, and no one was ever sent to jail - Nor was the tax collected. Jefferson repealed it.

Colorado Mineworkers strike - The Government, at the behest of the mine owners machine-gunned strikers and their families. But the resulting firefight and national horror crippled the mine owners political prestiege, and started the UMWA's roll.

Matewan/Blair Mountain - Again, the strikers came off second best, but the mining unions finally got their power legitimized. Coal mine owners haven't had a moment's peace since.


In regards to children, you're exactly wrong.
Childhood is the absolute best time to teach firearms, marksmanship, and firearms safety. Children absorb things much less critically, and have few things to 'un-learn.' The Five Rules* sink in and stay put for life when taught to children. children learn to respect the weapon and what it can do - that lesson also stays put.
This presumes of course, that the parents aren't idiots.




.

that is exactly the hypocrisy of the right to own a gun , overthrowing a democratic elected goverment by force because you are not agreeing on what the majority of voters voted for
where is the democracy and freedom in that

and no guns do not belong in the hands of kids no matter how well you educate them in the use of fire arms this isn't a case of owell a education they get from their parents

it is a case of resposibility and accepting the consequinces of your action which is something kids do not have at the same level of the huge majorityy of adults

I am not against guns per se nor am i american but sometimes it just sounds or looks so absurd this whole gunculture in the USA

.

Like respect and discipline? It seems like almost all children lack those two things now days.

EDIT: I know, Americans are "brainwashed" by the NRA

I guess you don't know.

I've never been an NRA member and I never will be, yet I remain a gun owner.

(be it the need to defend your farm from the British crown or whatever)

Damn, you people still believe that crap?

Believe what? It was the original purpose of the second amendment, and even though it was reviewed by the congress atleast 4 times since the late 18th century, it never was really touched, only expanded...

Where wildlife is tamed....

Wild life....

Wild.....

Wild is the opposite of Tame.

Because they are kids, these concepts have to be taught... repeatedly.

Still, giving guns to children is so over the top ridiculous it makes my stomach churn each time I see it on TV (there has been quite some news coverage about those "good American parents" in the last weeks). Seriously, nobody has the right to call her/himself a parent if she/he is ok with that kind of stuff...

EDIT: I know, Americans are "brainwashed" by the NRA since earliest youth to see it as their "god given right" to bear arms and yadda yadda... but concider this: Over the last decade, approx 3.000 US citizens have been killed by terrorism, that's bad, but over 96.000 have been killed by guns in their own homes!