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Count TaSessine
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Posted - 2005.10.07 18:24:00 -
[1]
Initial Public Offering, Phase 3: Buy shares in ISS Marginis Outpost
Dear Eve-pilots
From 1800 hours today, Oct 7, all pilots in Eve can buy shares in the ISS Marginis Trade Outpost.
For the 0.0 community and for traders in the southern empire regions, the ISS outpost will be a neutral haven where 0.0 alliance members and private citizens from empire can trade and exchange goods.
Building the first neutral trade hub in 0.0 space is a massive project, the biggest public construction project in Eve. We believe someone need to kick start things to make life come to 0.0. Building a 28Bn outpost in the middle of nowhere is certainly a risky business, but shored up by a real, living breathing market that offers a complete one-stop shopping place for people in 0.0, we believe success will be assured.
The outpost will be built and controlled by a separate corporation controlled by ISS, called ISS Marginis Outpost corporation. Shares in ISS Marginis are offered for sale to all pilots in Eve. Share price is set at 10M ISK per share. To reduce the administrative burden, the ISS Marginis Outpost corporation accept buy orders of minimum ten shares or 100M ISK.
From now on shares in the ISS Marginis Outpost corporation are available for all pilots in Eve, regardless of alliance affiliation or race.
To see the current number of shares sold Go to http://www.eve-iss.com/marginis
To read more about the business plan Click Here.
For details on how to invest: Click here
Chairman, ISS
Investment Opportunity:
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.10.07 18:30:00 -
[2]
Pff, yeah right. Lyrus is in on this, I hear. He once tried to sell people 'shares' in his project to utilise moons as planetary destruction devices.
_________
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Abdalion
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Posted - 2005.10.07 18:31:00 -
[3]
This doesn't belong in General Discussion, so moving it to Sales forum.
Whooooosh.
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.10.07 19:20:00 -
[4]
and what pray tell do we get for our 100 mil + investment?
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.10.07 20:00:00 -
[5]
It's an admirable vision but I am concerned that the game does not have the mechanics to support such a venture.
Sure, you get shares in a company. However, unless I am mistaken, theres no way to force the company to pay out a dividend. The only mechanic is trust
In a venture of this size, its highly doubtful an "auditor" will be able to pick up irregularities in the flow of funds.
In RL, the job of auditors is to make sure there are "no material misstatements" in a set of financial results.
The context of auditors in your business plan seems to indicate that they will mooch around for irregularities (i.e. theft or fraud). The game does not have tools to support this and there are many "grey" areas. Paying ISS navy 1 bill ISK for "security" anyone?
How would you address the above concerns to a potential investor? I realise this could be a ground breaking and overwhelming success. It could also be a fraud that would make GHSC's efforts pale in comparision.
Regards,
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2005.10.07 20:08:00 -
[6]
The issue of trust is for the investors themselves to judge, based on the reputation of the ISS's actions to date.
The GHSC comparison is laughable. I'm not aware that the GHSC has 1300 registered, named and visible pilots in it's alliance upon which retribution can be taken for scams and frauds.
Please take the time to read the links before attempted highjacks of this post.
Investment Opportunity:
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Dimitri Forgroth
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Posted - 2005.10.07 20:10:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 07/10/2005 20:10:20
So i take it from this, that if I paid in 100mil, I'd get 10 shares, paying 500k a month each.
So after 20 months wait, i'll start to actually earn 5mil per month?
 Originally by: Oveur
I do not recall having intellectual intercourse with Paint.
DPS Sheet |
Rufus Roughneck
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Posted - 2005.10.07 20:11:00 -
[8]
If I'm not mistaken a majority of shareholders could do something to the ceo he wouldnt like much, like take control over the corp that owns the outpost.
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rugg burne
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Posted - 2005.10.07 20:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: babylonstew
and what pray tell do we get for our 100 mil + investment?
I second that. I've read the links, but I dont see any mention of profit or dividents. I am looking to invest, but what will my return be? I understand that exact figures are impossible to provide, but at least if you could say where the profit comes from and what portion if any 10 shares of it would buy. No offence but simply funding ISS's ventures for the privilege of part ownership of 'Yulai in 0.0' are not terribly attractive
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.10.07 20:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
The issue of trust is for the investors themselves to judge, based on the reputation of the ISS's actions to date.
The GHSC comparison is laughable. I'm not aware that the GHSC has 1300 registered, named and visible pilots in it's alliance upon which retribution can be taken for scams and frauds.
Please take the time to read the links before attempted highjacks of this post.
I did read the links. My points stand and they are perfectly valid. If you find them unpalatable then tough. If you want players to stump up billions then you need to come up with a bulletproof proposal and not rely on trust.
It's not a hijack. Come up with more than fluff and defend your proposals. Don't start on personal attacks to deflect attention.
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2005.10.07 20:52:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Serenity Steele on 07/10/2005 20:56:34
Edited by: Serenity Steele on 07/10/2005 20:54:15
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Sure, you get shares in a company. However, unless I am mistaken, theres no way to force the company to pay out a dividend. The only mechanic is trust
In a venture of this size, its highly doubtful an "auditor" will be able to pick up irregularities in the flow of funds.
In RL, the job of auditors is to make sure there are "no material misstatements" in a set of financial results.
The context of auditors in your business plan seems to indicate that they will mooch around for irregularities (i.e. theft or fraud). The game does not have tools to support this and there are many "grey" areas. Paying ISS navy 1 bill ISK for "security" anyone?
- There is no way to force a company to pay a dividend on the shares anymore than there is a way to force a mercinary to enact a war-contract or BIG to hand-over Blueprint copies from investment funds
- The business plan specifically lists all costs associated with the build. There are no speculative costs.
Originally by: Dimitri Forgroth
So i take it from this, that if I paid in 100mil, I'd get 10 shares, paying 500k a month each. So after 20 months wait, i'll start to actually earn 5mil per month?
Return on investment starts from the first month the station is operational. If you're refering to time taken for 100% return on investment, this is the wrong measure. Please read this.
Originally by: Rufus Roughneck
If I'm not mistaken a majority of shareholders could do something to the ceo he wouldnt like much, like take control over the corp that owns the outpost.
In order to attempt to take over the corp, you must own at least 1 share and be in the corporation - you can then out a vote to run for CEO. The vote must be agreed upon by the majority of shareholders to take effect. Thus to own the outpost by this means, >50% of the share votes must be in agreement.
It is not possible to take over a corp by having a majority shareholding and being outside the corporation.
Investment Opportunity:
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Mr Crown
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Posted - 2005.10.07 20:55:00 -
[12]
I am seriously considering investing in this venture but a few things are not clear with me.
1)You claim that all profit goes to divident. Does that mean that possible return can be higher then 5 %?
2)What happens if outpost loses money?
3)Re profit again. I notice a pretty hefty 3.5Bn 'ISS management fee' that you guys conviniently consider an expense. I understand, ppl who manage the place need to be rewarded, but 3.5Bn?!! Will there be similar monthly fees that look like an expense but go to ISS's coffers?
4)Your second selling point is the appreciation of the shares. Thats a nice assumption. Doeas that mean that ISS will be willing to rebuy the shares at IPO price if I cant find a buyer?
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2005.10.07 21:07:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Serenity Steele on 07/10/2005 21:07:49
Originally by: Mr Crown
I am seriously considering investing in this venture but a few things are not clear with me.
1)You claim that all profit goes to divident. Does that mean that possible return can be higher then 5 %?
2)What happens if outpost loses money?
3)Re profit again. I notice a pretty hefty 3.5Bn 'ISS management fee' that you guys conviniently consider an expense. I understand, ppl who manage the place need to be rewarded, but 3.5Bn?!! Will there be similar monthly fees that look like an expense but go to ISS's coffers?
4)Your second selling point is the appreciation of the shares. Thats a nice assumption. Doeas that mean that ISS will be willing to rebuy the shares at IPO price if I cant find a buyer?
Thanks for your questions.
1) Yes. The possible return can be higher.
2) Once the outpost is created, it will not 'lose money', as there is no operating fee.
The only 'potential' operating fee was POS and defence, and we decided to make these the costs of the ISS, not the outpost corporation. The POS guaranteeing sovereignty will be self-profitable, and the ISS will fund defence of those POS.
3) The ISS fee will be taken in shares. We decided 3.5bn was realistic given the effort of plan and launching the station. There are no ongoing monthly fees.
4) In addition to 3) The Chairman, Executor and many corps have all invested in the outpost, as we believe in our plan. As such the ISS will not guarantee the rebuy of shares at IPO price, but we will seek to buy-back shares using our own dividend revenue.
Investment Opportunity:
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xNashx
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Posted - 2005.10.07 21:29:00 -
[14]
A couple questions:
1) On the site it said that there will be a docking fee. Does this fee also apply to shareholders?
2) What if the station gets blown up?
Thanks,
xNashx
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DeathForMeh
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Posted - 2005.10.07 21:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: xNashx
A couple questions:
1) On the site it said that there will be a docking fee. Does this fee also apply to shareholders?
2) What if the station gets blown up?
Thanks,
xNashx
Stations cant be blowen up, however you can lose control off them. Ofcourse the platform could be blown up while being deloyed 
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2005.10.07 21:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: xNashx
A couple questions:
1) On the site it said that there will be a docking fee. Does this fee also apply to shareholders?
2) What if the station gets blown up?
Thanks,
xNashx
1) Yes, the docking fee applies to all ships docking at the station.
The benefit to share holders is:
- You will get part of 'your own' docking fees when the dividend is issued
- If you buy 300 shares, you will be reserved an office in the station.
and of course
- Dividend
- Share price increase
2) Outposts cannot be destroyed once built. They can only be captured if sovereignty of the system is lost. In the event sovereignty is lost, the ISS take action to regain it at it's own expense.
Investment Opportunity:
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Callan Skiderlar
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Posted - 2005.10.07 22:27:00 -
[17]
I have concerns about accounting for ISS' management fee as a one-time up-front fee. Once ISS completes the offering, they have no vested financial interest in assuring the viability of the station and do not share in the investors' risk. I would much rather see their return expressed as an annuity to keep their interests aligned with the investors'.
I would appreciate some explanation as to why ISS needs all of their return up front, since any costs after deployment will be variable and incurred at a later date. It would make more sense to me if their fee was a much lower up-front fee and an ongoing percentage of the profits.
Other than that, the premise is intriguing.
---
Lifeline Minmatar Dreadnaught sales thread:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=220327 |
Prometheus Wrong
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Posted - 2005.10.07 23:59:00 -
[18]
Having reviewed your materials I'd first like to say congradulations on what is clearly an ambitious business plan. Quite a bold proposal given what the game mechanics allow.
You've definetly sparked the interest of ASCN's leadership. Some questions that come quickly to mind however are:
1.) Why didn't you ask the Southern Alliances about this first?
2.) Did you consider the problem of your outpost being used as a base of operations, or forward outpost/supply depot. for organizations hostile to one or more southern alliance? Even if they do not engage in hostilities, the ability to quickly and easily resupply at a neutral trade station in close proximity to their target area is decidedly dangerous to those entities you might intend to serve. To block access to these parties would require taking sides. To not do so would raise the ire of the affected parties.
3.) If you had planned to place the outpost on a major travel junction, how would you deal with the absolutly unavoidable and inevitable pirate and/or greifer camping of the station and ajoining systems? I can assure you, having a pirate magnet in our front-yards isn't something any of us are going to welcome.
-P.W.
Director of ASCN Outpost Construction
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2005.10.08 00:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Callan Skiderlar
I have concerns about accounting for ISS' management fee as a one-time up-front fee. Once ISS completes the offering, they have no vested financial interest in assuring the viability of the station and do not share in the investors' risk. I would much rather see their return expressed as an annuity to keep their interests aligned with the investors'.
I would appreciate some explanation as to why ISS needs all of their return up front, since any costs after deployment will be variable and incurred at a later date. It would make more sense to me if their fee was a much lower up-front fee and an ongoing percentage of the profits.
Other than that, the premise is intriguing.
The ISS return is not up front: The ISS Management fee will be paid to the ISS as shares out of the total 3600 (see business plan) to ensure that the ISS has a vested interest in the outpost.
Additionally, a larger number of shares have been purchased by: ISS member corporations, Count TaSessine (ISS Chairman) and myself (ISS Executor).
The only ongoing cost for the Outpost is POS maintenance and Defence, both of which will come from ISS budget. We have planned the POS deployments to be profitable, so as to provide ongoing motivation in addition to the ISS share returns for keeping them online.
Investment Opportunity:
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2005.10.08 00:19:00 -
[20]
More than 50% of shares now sold.
To see total remaining shares and offices,
visit ISS Marginis Outpost Site or ISS Web Site.
Investment Opportunity:
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Count TaSessine
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Posted - 2005.10.08 09:25:00 -
[21]
Only 1584 shares to go now 
Chairman, ISS
Investment Opportunity:
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.10.08 10:58:00 -
[22]
ISS do have a vested interest in this
a LOT of ISS members have put as much as they can afford into this
over half my wallet is in this venture atm
--
This Zig. For great justice!
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Kelewan
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Posted - 2005.10.08 11:50:00 -
[23]
Will you hold a public register of all shareholders, or will it be similiar to a nominee account, or will there be no register at all? (except held within your corp ofcourse)
-----------------------------------------------
"I am watching you through a camera" - Artie Ziff
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Count TaSessine
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Posted - 2005.10.08 12:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kelewan
Will you hold a public register of all shareholders, or will it be similiar to a nominee account, or will there be no register at all? (except held within your corp ofcourse)
We have a list of who have bought shares, but I know for a fact that many of them have already resold a lot of them, so our investor list is already outdated. Additionally, I believe that at least some of the investors don't want to have their names published.
Chairman, ISS
Investment Opportunity:
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Count TaSessine
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Posted - 2005.10.08 12:15:00 -
[25]
We've sold almost 1100 shares since we went public - only 1351 left now 
Chairman, ISS
Investment Opportunity:
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Free Man
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Posted - 2005.10.08 12:21:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Free Man on 08/10/2005 12:25:16
Originally by: Serenity Steele
1) Yes, the docking fee applies to all ships docking at the station.
The benefit to share holders is:
- You will get part of 'your own' docking fees when the dividend is issued
- If you buy 300 shares, you will be reserved an office in the station.
and of course
- Dividend
- Share price increase
Dividend
wonder how u gona show profitt of ur outpost?
couse Dividends base on ammount of profitt(produced, in ur case, by ur outpost) devided by ammount of shares
in this case u atleast must give to all shareholders access to stacion account, wich can not be down anyway. and of couse u will try show as little proffit as posible. just make sure u will pay min. dividends.
Plas where is garanty u not planning issu more shares l8r on. so i guess, u come up too early with this idea, this sort of thing (shareholding of outpost)can be down only inside coorp. , at least at this moment.
P.S. Sorry bout misstakes, english never bin my strong side.
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Free Man
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Posted - 2005.10.08 12:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
Edited by: Serenity Steele on 07/10/2005 21:07:49
Originally by: Mr Crown
I am seriously considering investing in this venture but a few things are not clear with me.
1)You claim that all profit goes to divident. Does that mean that possible return can be higher then 5 %?
2)What happens if outpost loses money?
3)Re profit again. I notice a pretty hefty 3.5Bn 'ISS management fee' that you guys conviniently consider an expense. I understand, ppl who manage the place need to be rewarded, but 3.5Bn?!! Will there be similar monthly fees that look like an expense but go to ISS's coffers?
4)Your second selling point is the appreciation of the shares. Thats a nice assumption. Doeas that mean that ISS will be willing to rebuy the shares at IPO price if I cant find a buyer?
Thanks for your questions.
1) Yes. The possible return can be higher.
2) Once the outpost is created, it will not 'lose money', as there is no operating fee.
The only 'potential' operating fee was POS and defence, and we decided to make these the costs of the ISS, not the outpost corporation. The POS guaranteeing sovereignty will be self-profitable, and the ISS will fund defence of those POS.
3) The ISS fee will be taken in shares. We decided 3.5bn was realistic given the effort of plan and launching the station. There are no ongoing monthly fees.
4) In addition to 3) The Chairman, Executor and many corps have all invested in the outpost, as we believe in our plan. As such the ISS will not guarantee the rebuy of shares at IPO price, but we will seek to buy-back shares using our own dividend revenue.
actualy he was wrong
expenses not 3,5bill , its 6bill
Investments Cost
Gallente BPO + Outpost 27.5 Bn ISK
Operational Security (POS) 1.5 Bn ISK
Emergency Fuel Reserves 1.5 Bn ISK
Expenses
ISS Deployment Security 1.0 Bn ISK
ISS Transportation 1.5 Bn ISK
ISS Management Fee 3.5 Bn ISK
Total 36.0 Bn ISK
wonder where this 6 bill will go?
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Gan Ning
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Posted - 2005.10.08 13:20:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Gan Ning on 08/10/2005 13:20:46
Sounds good but has Morbor II written all over it :/
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Mned Graydroggen
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Posted - 2005.10.08 16:33:00 -
[29]
/is impressed.
This looks like a first serious attempt to bring life to 0.0. I wish you safe journeys ISS.
I appreciate all the questions and prompt well written replies. They cleared up alot of questions I had. I will follow this project with great intrest
To the moderating team
This thread deserves a better place than the sell forums imo. History could be written here, Corporation and Alliance summit or Intergalactic summit would be more fitting. Even market discussion be better then this endless pitt.
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Serenity Steele
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Posted - 2005.10.08 19:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Free Man
Dividend
wonder how u gona show profitt of ur outpost?
couse Dividends base on ammount of profitt(produced, in ur case, by ur outpost) devided by ammount of shares
in this case u atleast must give to all shareholders access to stacion account, wich can not be down anyway.
Dividend is by all fees earned from ownership of the outpost, and auction of office space.
Originally by: Free Man
and of couse u will try show as little proffit as posible. just make sure u will pay min. dividends.
False. We will be showing exactly the amount of profit that the outpost earns and distributing it as dividends. Independent auditors with junior account roles in the corporation will be able to view the wallet.
Originally by: Free Man
Plas where is garanty u not planning issu more shares l8r on.
Shares can only be issued after a vote by existing shareholders passes by majority.
Originally by: Free Man
actualy he was wrong
expenses not 3,5bill , its 6bill
Investments Cost
Gallente BPO + Outpost 27.5 Bn ISK
Operational Security (POS) 1.5 Bn ISK
Emergency Fuel Reserves 1.5 Bn ISK
Expenses
ISS Deployment Security 1.0 Bn ISK
ISS Transportation 1.5 Bn ISK
ISS Management Fee 3.5 Bn ISK
Total 36.0 Bn ISK
wonder where this 6 bill will go?
The Security and Transportation fees are a maximum budget for getting the thing moved and safely launched, and will go to Mercinary/Transport corps respectively.
Investment Opportunity:
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