Other forms of "instant intel:"

The 60+ hostile titans on everyone's watchlist

Cynos popping up on the system-wide overview and universe map

SBUs showing up on the overview (should we have to probe them down instead?)
Instant notification when a tower goes up in your space
Instant notification when your tower or sov structure is attacked

Should all forms of "instant intel" be removed then?

Oh btw, Ingvar is a WH dweller, but your response to him did make me laugh.

read: "I don't want my bots to stop making ISK because of an AFK cloaker"

So why would he propose changes (changes that every single self-styled "small gang PvP expert" or "wormhole resident" and their forum alts have proposed) that simply don't affect him?

I've yet to hear a real, convincing argument as to why the 0.0 local channel should be set to delayed mode other than "hurr durr AFK cloakers" and "OH MY GOD INSTANT INTEL." It won't be a boon to PvP at all and, to be honest, I have not heard any further indication of changes to local from the devs since that null-sec devblog.

So why would he propose changes (changes that every single self-styled "small gang PvP expert" or "wormhole resident" and their forum alts have proposed) that simply don't affect him?

I've yet to hear a real, convincing argument as to why the 0.0 local channel should be set to delayed mode other than "hurr durr AFK cloakers" and "OH MY GOD INSTANT INTEL." It won't be a boon to PvP at all and, to be honest, I have not heard any further indication of changes to local from the devs since that null-sec devblog.

[quote=Andski][quote=Mag's]....
Just for clarification: I actually like the status quo. I merely agree with the premise of this thread, that local is the reason for AFKing and this idea is the most balanced way atm.
But as I have said many times, until we know what changes are coming to intel gathering, it's a moot point.

It's as important for both sides, in other words the removal would affect both equally.

But you've kind of hit upon why this is a good idea, in your question. Local is being relied upon far too much, for instant intel.

You seem to be confusing things that were designed for intel and ones that were not.

.....

I have heard this before but has a dev ever said no one at ccp knew local would be used for intel? I find it hard to beleive they would be that dumb. Not that it matters what they originally intended I'm jsut wondering if you can supply a source for this often repeated claim.

It seem to me they intentionally made it an intel tool since peoples standings to your show up in local.

Well, finally we agree at something!

+1

Keep in mind, this idea is intended to neuter the afk cloak complaints without breaking cloaks or nerfing wormholes.

And in the process it would kill solo and small gang pvp.

What it will do, is drive even more of the carebears that are still left in nullsec into hisec, and thus making the problem this "fix" is actually suggested to fix, the problem of actually getting a gank, even harder.

It's a dumb and gamebreaking idea, and it would be best left in the annals of time.

No it won't, unlike your wish to nerf gang links.

You like that everyone now needs to drag along an alt with gang links? Figures.

This particular proposal will make small scale eve pvp a complete crap shoot. Is that ship you are about to attack surrounded by 30 cloaked stealthbombers or even battleships? There would be no way to tell.

You like that everyone now needs to drag along an alt with gang links? Figures.

This particular proposal will make small scale eve pvp a complete crap shoot. Is that ship you are about to attack surrounded by 30 cloaked stealthbombers or even battleships? There would be no way to tell.

No I like that everyone has the same choice right now. If they make an effort they reduce the risk, but I believe it's balanced. You just have a bee in your bonnet, about alts and second accounts..

This particular proposal will make small scale eve pvp a complete crap shoot. Is that ship you are about to attack surrounded by 30 cloaked stealthbombers or even battleships? There would be no way to tell.

And now there is? They could jump from a gate, WH or even LOG if the ship is a trap...

Local is just a fake way to make you fell safe... like directional scan on a WH...

I don't really think there is a choice anymore. The bonuses are too large to competitively play the game without dragging an alt around with you. Yeah I think that sucks.

What do you disagree with in my quote? Do you not agree you will be unable to tell if any given ship is surrounded by 40 cloaked ships? That is what the proposal does.

As soon as who is seen the blob appears? Blobs don't chase after every ship they see. Most of the ships I fight are fit for pvp so they are just as likely to stick around when I come as run. Local tells me if there is a blob with them.

Yes now there is. You can see them in the local. When you see several in the same corp or alliance or several that you know hang out together you can use that information to avoid traps. This proposal takes that intel away so pvp becomes less about information and more about dumb luck.

Having someone jump through a gate and then start warping to you is very different from having them already on grid ready to simply uncloak and open fire. Local gives solo players some chance to try to gtfo before the blob lands. This proposal will eliminate any chance of that.

I agree you are basically doing the normal trick of exaggerating a circumstance to suit your argument. Much like Lord Zim does, he tells me that people are inherently lazy and won't be bothered.