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eleve
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.12.28 15:34:00 -
[331] - Quote
Dr Karsun wrote:This is a quite well thought over idea about nerfing the cloaks and I agree to it. As long as both ends are met - he loses local and we don't see him in local.
I'd also advise to keep d-scan but remove the on board scanner. Probes would naturally still work, I just want the on board scanner gone.
Reason? Cloakers would have an unfair advantage above anomaly runners if it didn't happen, since in fact they COULD see where the anomaly runners are, bu tthe anomaly runners wouldn't know about the cloaker, who would have access to ALL of the system (Except plexes).
And I'd approve of BO and recons not having the cyno delay - after all they are designed for lighting up cynos and hotdropping.
The solution, even if implemented without my ideas would still be by far better than the current situation.
Removing onboard scanner wouldn't do a ****. It just makes every 0.0 bears life even more miserable. Cloakers would have (and even currently usually always has) probe launcher. One combat probe launched at location where is no ships in d-scan and kept carefully away from any planets would enable cloakers to get every anomaly location without carebears never seeing any probe. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
111
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Posted - 2011.12.28 15:55:00 -
[332] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Now, pray tell, just how much of this do you suppose normal people would deal with....
This proposal is not for normal people. Its for people who are happy to sit at their computers for hours on end waiting for the opportunity to blow someones internet spaceship up.
These are the people who say there is "plenty" of pvp in wormholes even though low sec has 3xs as much per person.
These are the people who want to make low sec and null sec like wh space. Slow, tedious and boring.
Normal people play a computer game, understandably want some sort of action within an hour or 2. That is normal.
This idea of scouting around for hours in order to blow up a virtual spaceship is anything but normal. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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eleve
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.28 16:15:00 -
[333] - Quote
The only way which I could think this work, is make two kinds of cloaks. Current cloaks stays right as they are, but these new cloaks, let's call them supercloaks, would make user to lose contact with local.
Addition to local disappearing, supercloaks would have some other effects too: - 1 minute targeting delay when uncloaking - cyno and covert cyno modules don't work / can't be fitted with supercloak - interdiction sphere launcher and warp disruption field generators don't work / can't be fitted with supercloak
So supercloaks would be purely intelligence gathering tools.
But well, I don't even like this idea of cloaking, this is just stupid too. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
802
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Posted - 2011.12.28 17:33:00 -
[334] - Quote
eleve wrote:Dr Karsun wrote:This is a quite well thought over idea about nerfing the cloaks and I agree to it. As long as both ends are met - he loses local and we don't see him in local.
I'd also advise to keep d-scan but remove the on board scanner. Probes would naturally still work, I just want the on board scanner gone.
Reason? Cloakers would have an unfair advantage above anomaly runners if it didn't happen, since in fact they COULD see where the anomaly runners are, bu tthe anomaly runners wouldn't know about the cloaker, who would have access to ALL of the system (Except plexes).
And I'd approve of BO and recons not having the cyno delay - after all they are designed for lighting up cynos and hotdropping.
The solution, even if implemented without my ideas would still be by far better than the current situation. Removing onboard scanner wouldn't do a ****. It just makes every 0.0 bears life even more miserable. Cloakers would have (and even currently usually always has) probe launcher. One combat probe launched at location where is no ships in d-scan and kept carefully away from any planets would enable cloakers to get every anomaly location without carebears never seeing any probe.
I believe he means remove the onboard scanner when cloaked... i.e. it won't work as result of being cloaked. I have to admit... that's an intruiging concept. It adds a further limitation the cloaked vessel.
The only "problem" I could see is that that would indeed make running in sites a little safer as well... but then again, if someone isn't paying attention to DScan they probably wouldn't notice the enemy ship in there just long enough to scan then cloak. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
113
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Posted - 2011.12.28 17:53:00 -
[335] - Quote
eleve wrote:The only way which I could think this work, is make two kinds of cloaks. Current cloaks stays right as they are, but these new cloaks, let's call them supercloaks, would make user to lose contact with local.
Addition to local disappearing, supercloaks would have some other effects too: - 1 minute targeting delay when uncloaking - cyno and covert cyno modules don't work / can't be fitted with supercloak - interdiction sphere launcher and warp disruption field generators don't work / can't be fitted with supercloak
So supercloaks would be purely intelligence gathering tools.
But well, I don't even like this idea of cloaking, this is just stupid too.
Make it so the supercloaked ships can't lock targets at all. After all if this is just so you can scout then they don't need to lock targets.
But this has nothing to do with scouting it has to do with blobbing and ganking pve ships.
Op will say this won't help those worried about people who afk cloak (with regular cloaks) in local. But his proposal actually made it worse for people who worry about that not better.
For them his proposal amounts to telling them to hide their head in the sand. You don't like seeing cloaked hostiles in local? Ok we will make it so you can't see them anymore. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Oddsodz
The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare Stealth Wear Inc.
6
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Posted - 2011.12.28 20:38:00 -
[336] - Quote
Cearain wrote:eleve wrote:The only way which I could think this work, is make two kinds of cloaks. Current cloaks stays right as they are, but these new cloaks, let's call them supercloaks, would make user to lose contact with local.
Addition to local disappearing, supercloaks would have some other effects too: - 1 minute targeting delay when uncloaking - cyno and covert cyno modules don't work / can't be fitted with supercloak - interdiction sphere launcher and warp disruption field generators don't work / can't be fitted with supercloak
So supercloaks would be purely intelligence gathering tools.
But well, I don't even like this idea of cloaking, this is just stupid too. Make it so the supercloaked ships can't lock targets at all. After all if this is just so you can scout then they don't need to lock targets. But this has nothing to do with scouting it has to do with blobbing and ganking pve ships. Op will say this won't help those worried about people who afk cloak (with regular cloaks) in local. But his proposal actually made it worse for people who worry about that not better. For them his proposal amounts to telling them to hide their head in the sand. You don't like seeing cloaked hostiles in local? Ok we will make it so you can't see them anymore.
But also the AFK cloaker will not see you. Unles they are willing to put some work in and go warp around and use D-scan to find you. It does work both ways. He will have a hard time working out the true numbers of pilots in a system if he can't see local. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
709
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Posted - 2011.12.28 20:50:00 -
[337] - Quote
This needs to be sticked.
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Nemesis Factor
Clann Fian Narwhals Ate My Duck
24
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Posted - 2011.12.28 21:52:00 -
[338] - Quote
For the most part I like this idea, but it doesn't jive with one thought I have always had since playing Eve.
I think it should be possible to use a cov ops cyno without anyone ever knowing you were there. Bring in a fleet of stealth bombers, get into position around the unwary target and then just go a' rapin.' Just.... really go to town on 'em.
And to those who say it would be too much of a nerf to PVE, I say if it was working properly now, no one would be ratting in anything more expensive than a CNR. If they feel so safe in a billion isk ship solo, then something is wrong. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
119
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Posted - 2011.12.28 22:44:00 -
[339] - Quote
Oddsodz wrote:Cearain wrote:eleve wrote:The only way which I could think this work, is make two kinds of cloaks. Current cloaks stays right as they are, but these new cloaks, let's call them supercloaks, would make user to lose contact with local.
Addition to local disappearing, supercloaks would have some other effects too: - 1 minute targeting delay when uncloaking - cyno and covert cyno modules don't work / can't be fitted with supercloak - interdiction sphere launcher and warp disruption field generators don't work / can't be fitted with supercloak
So supercloaks would be purely intelligence gathering tools.
But well, I don't even like this idea of cloaking, this is just stupid too. Make it so the supercloaked ships can't lock targets at all. After all if this is just so you can scout then they don't need to lock targets. But this has nothing to do with scouting it has to do with blobbing and ganking pve ships. Op will say this won't help those worried about people who afk cloak (with regular cloaks) in local. But his proposal actually made it worse for people who worry about that not better. For them his proposal amounts to telling them to hide their head in the sand. You don't like seeing cloaked hostiles in local? Ok we will make it so you can't see them anymore. But also the AFK cloaker will not see you. Unles they are willing to put some work in and go warp around and use D-scan to find you. It does work both ways. He will have a hard time working out the true numbers of pilots in a system if he can't see local.
Or he can just deactivate his cloak see local numbers and then immediately reactivate it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
360
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Posted - 2011.12.28 22:46:00 -
[340] - Quote
Or he can do what everyone else does when they can't get kills the good oldfashioned way: stick a guy in a blue corp. |
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
119
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Posted - 2011.12.28 22:50:00 -
[341] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:This needs to be sticked.
You and the op have been bumping it so often it might as well be stickied. The more people who view it the smaller the ratio of likes per view becomes. It's a bad idea. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Xearal
SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance
203
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Posted - 2011.12.28 23:21:00 -
[342] - Quote
Probably one of the best 'cloaking solution' threads i've read. I really like this idea.
This way, the covert ships can do what they were meant to do, sneak deep into enemy territory, cause maximum terror and sneak away when the big guns arrive.
The no-delay should also indeed be for force recons that can fit a covert cloaking device, adding another use for these ships.
Now if the Black Ops could only use a covert ops cloak as well...
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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3037
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Posted - 2012.01.31 07:43:00 -
[343] - Quote
Saving from the lock!
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Eisa Vitura
Princess Terrorism
0
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Posted - 2012.01.31 12:35:00 -
[344] - Quote
Actually on page 7, reading about the "zomg, cloaked gate camping blobs will be OP" part.
I was wondering, all the specialized ships are relatively weak when compared to their non cloaked counterparts (in term of tank / DPS etc ...), that's why, if I didn't miss a thing, the idea of non specialized ships using a basic cloak (thus, non appearing on the local) blobing with a bait is the problem.
Then why not nerf the basic cloaking module to oblivion, rendering non specialized cloaking ship not useless but far less competitive (ie: high CPU/PWG requierement, possibly % based) ?
I'm not a null-sec bittervet, even if I lived in Delve for a few month, so maybe there is a huge problem with this workaround ? |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
65
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Posted - 2012.02.17 02:41:00 -
[345] - Quote
I just fund that a cloak hunting ship would also put an end to most of the Macro/bots that kill rats on the belts
This kind of bots are programmed to warp to a safe-spot and cloak when any neutral player enters the system. So if it is possible to detect and hunt him while he is cloaked then there will be less bots ruining the game economy... |
Zawisza Black
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.02.17 02:53:00 -
[346] - Quote
Wouldn't the OP's suggestion just make AFK cloaking even worse? With your idea not only would an AFK cloaker still be able to suppress an sov economy singlehandedly but the people in the system wouldn't be aware that the person is there at all. This just gives more power to the AFK-cloaking douchebags, the people "supporting" this thread obviously support cloak griefing.
The cloaker would still be able to sit in a system 24/7 cloaked and could still roam belts and anoms with impunity looking for his easy cowardly kills. |
Hawk Pathfinder
Astrological Exploration Enterprise Redrum Fleet
0
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Posted - 2012.03.02 01:16:00 -
[347] - Quote
While I would enjoy to be able to scan out cloakers. Something that would require max skills and still be very difficult to do, or even a speciality module or ship required. It would encourage me to spend the time from Level 4 to 5 since I can scan out anything at level 4 skills at the moment. I can even see a career option in it "Cloaky Hunter For Hire".
But if I can't have that option, then +1 to this.
Also, didn't I read somewhere that they might stop cloaked ships freezing despawns. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
122
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Posted - 2012.03.02 07:27:00 -
[348] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Heck with it... I'm just giving this it's own thread. Tired of having to repost it in every moronic "nerf afk cloak" thread that pops up seven times a freakin' hour. Even though cloaking isn't broken and is working as intended, I once again offer this change to the system for consideration: 1. When a vessel cloaks, it gets removed from local. You cannot see the cloaked vessel (or pilot) anymore, after all, they're cloaked. *** Note: The following changes to immediately disappearing from local were suggested by Onyx47. These seem highly reasonable and worth adding to the discussion: a) Cloaker remains in local for a short period of time after cloaking. This enables you to see him in local even if he spams cloak as soon as he moves. 20 secs sounds reasonable since that's the session timer duration, combined with gate cloak which should not remove you from local and considering loading the system takes some time that would amount to a minimum of 25ish seconds the cloaker is visible in local.
b) Local reconnection delay for the cloaker after decloaking. Meaning, if you decloak your computer needs 30 seconds to recalibrate and reconnect to local channel. This timer is equal to current recloaking delay. Gates are however not affected by this and you show up in local right away. This means just pulsing your cloak to see local chat takes, at minimum, 30 seconds for you with addition of being visible in local for a minimum of 50 seconds. Of course, you need to stay decloaked longer to actually SEE what's in local.*** End note *** 2. When a vessel cloaks, it also loses access to local. They can't see you... you can't see them. If you want to gather intel while cloaked, do it actively through use of dscan, probes, or simply going somewhere and watching. (This is a tried and tested methodology in wormholes that works just fine.) 3. When a vessel uncloaks, there's a delay in being able to fire off a cyno of approx 15 to 30 seconds (possibly 42), depending on balancing. This prevents abuse of the hot drop mechanic by allowing the aware an opportunity to act on the fact that there's a vessel uncloaking nearby. Exception to #3 to consider: I'd consider allowing Black Ops (and possibly Recon) ships to not suffer the delay in firing a cyno. They're a special class of ship that should have this ability. So, what do we gain from this (especially that the "nerf cloak" crowd fails to provide)? Cloaks are allowed to act more like true cloaks. Intel gathering while cloaked becomes a more active affair. The overpowered intel tool called local remains effective for ships not cloaked. Cynos and hot drops are balanced to prevent abuse, but they should still be effective. Black Ops ships find a greater role. Null sec still retains the element of danger it deserves instead of being turned into Eve: Asteroid Adventure. Important to me: Wormholes don't take any hits due to cloaking mechanics being broken. So there it is... what appears to be a well balanced tweak to cloaking and null space that should add a good bit to the game (instead of taking away from it). Cloaks, and covops especially, are allowed to truly function covertly in empire space adding a new twist to intel gathering. And, most importantly, THERE WILL BE NO MORE "AFK CLOAKER" THREADS! Addendum: Dr Karsun adds the idea of the onboard scanner being disabled while cloaked. It would add a little more penalty for cloaked vessels... worth adding to the discussion.
If a cloaker is removed from local chat... he in turn should get no local information since he is not "connected"... but personly I am against it all, just saying |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
134
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Posted - 2012.03.02 07:52:00 -
[349] - Quote
Local Chat should just go.. for everyone. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
124
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Posted - 2012.03.02 17:08:00 -
[350] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Local Chat should just go.. for everyone. Agreed.
It is a misused chat tool. The second best suggestion I heard about, after this one, is make local a more regional chat, so that it includes several systems at least.
I would also recommend making the D-Scan a toggle, so people can rely on their own ships the way they should be. |
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
294
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Posted - 2012.03.02 17:10:00 -
[351] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Local Chat should just go.. for everyone.
Yep make all of eve like wormhole space. That way everyone will effectively be forced to live in a space that 90% would prefer not to and has very little pvp. Good idea. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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