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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2818
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Posted - 2013.05.14 22:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
What about the (sentry) drone fixes, are they on sisi yet?
Clone costs don't have any impact on my pvp, since you asked.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2818
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:chatgris wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance. right tell that to my tech II ships...
Ok, MeBiatches tech II ships listen up- you are not an ISK sink. Sorry if this hurt your ego, however if you feel the need to sink some ISK, you can send it to me and I'll promise to sink it appropriately and promptly.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2818
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lithorn wrote:MeBiatch wrote:chatgris wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Abrazzar wrote:If we remove clones as an ISK sink, what will replace it? i dunno... perhaps pvp... think of all those people who dont pvp that often now... all of a sudden you know playing the pvp game again... While I fully support that more pvp is good, pvp is NOT an ISK sink. If anything PVP is an ISK faucet due to insurance. right tell that to my tech II ships... T3 and faction battleships don't get the insurance love either, many T2 ships get short changed also. So yes, actually the previous dude is wrong it is an ISK sink and a very good one too.
If you insure any ship, and it gets destroyed under insurance, more ISK enters the economy than leaves.
Only ISK sink related to T2 ships is the T1 ship BPO purchase from NPCs, and related skillbooks (and insurance price). Considering these aren't consumed in the invention and manufacturing process, they are rather insignificant in the whole scene. It doesn't take many pilots receiving insurance payouts for their T2 ships to turn the total on the faucet side.
/end of standard faucet explanation #24232321211189
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2821
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Posted - 2013.05.15 06:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
If ships were free, and you would get to keep all your mods after getting blown up, people would also PVP more.
Imagine how awesome that would be!
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2824
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rangloff wrote:CAN I GET A HALLELUIAH!
Yes, you can.
Let's analyze your case for a moment. Your problem is that you don't like the 45mil ISK loss resulting from the loss of your clone, and that puts you off from PVPing with that high-SP character. You have solved the problem by creating a lower SP alt.
Results:
+ you get to PVP + others get to PVP with your alt + CCP got another account
Everybody wins!
Now let's consider the consequences of removing clone costs:
+ you get to PVP + others get to PVP - CCP doesn't get an account
Poor CCP!
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2824
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 10:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote: You see, when high-SP and low-SP players are dueling for example, it's obvious that a newer player is in disadvantage - his tank is weaker, guns miss often etc. This is a bit "compensated" by higher clone costs for a veteran if he manages to loose the fight. Also, EVE is a sandbox and economy should interfere with PVP. You may have heard that miners, manufacturers and other "carebears" are despised by the ilitist breed. Removing clone costs would emphasize that attitude even futher.
And no, the fun is there only when stakes are high.
Did I answer your question?
Your example only highlights the undeniable argument for removing higher clone costs for older players. If the new player has planned his skills well, he can have exactly the same amount of relevant SP to the ships flown in the duel as the older player.
There is a hard cap on the advantage from character skills in any given ship. Older players can have max skills in numerous other ships as well, but they don't help one bit in your duel example.
Only player skills will help.
I still lol at people who whine about 40mil clone costs, but they do have a valid point about the costs being not really worth keeping as they are.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2826
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote: Which is pretty high. While not that high for frigates, I should agree, but still quite a lot. Me, for example, still dont have good navigation skills while I'm well above 40 mil SP, gunnery is not too strong as well, drones sux, armor tank could be better. And almost zero in leadership - it's not applicable for duels, but deuling was just an example.
I'm not denying that the older player having Controlled Bursts V versus younger playing having it at only IV couldn't dictate the outcome the fight, but I can imagine more than few scenarios where having that advantage means absolutely **** all nothing.
I fleets the total amount of individual pilots SP means even less.
Quote: So they can fly a mining barge maybe? Did you read my words after "dueling"? Older players have more possibilities to make ISK, and if they choose not to do that - they should suffer. Sandbox and stuff.
Income making has very little to do with SP, and more with time and effort spent. Most of my income is made with a 800K SP trade alt, and her zero-training colleagues.
Player age and connections create career possibilities, but SP does not equate player age in game. I see your point about clone costs as a balancing factor, and used to think like that too...
but in the end there's a simple truth in EVE- the more you play, the less time and effort you are interested putting into ISK-making, since the most fun thing you can do in game is the good old ultraviolence.
Older players shouldn't be forced to grind more just for having more SP. Forcing people into PVE, even indirectly, is against the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2833
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
DireNecessity wrote:Jump cloning up for PvP generates at least two possible losses. An ISK loss if the PvP clone itself is podded and the training loss when you jump out of your super expensive learning clone for at least 24 hours.
A PvP clone loss is not a big deal if your space rich but I find the mandatory 24 hours of suboptimal training very annoying since it means a PvP roam will not only slow down my improvement but also requires me to make a log in appoint 24 hours hence to jump back into the training clone. PvP shouldnGÇÖt inhibit oneGÇÖs training. Some way around the current 24 hour inhibition that doesnGÇÖt break the game would be appreciated.
(IGÇÖm aware I can PvP in my super expensive training clone and while implants can be replaced the humiliation at losing such a clone lasts forever.)
So tell me how much SP gain you lose when spending 24 hours in a clone with +3s or +4s instead +5s?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2835
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
DireNecessity wrote: I've never bothered to figure it out.
No further questions.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2844
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Posted - 2013.05.15 20:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Saiphas Cain wrote:Player made clones, corpse harvesting, and learning drugs are the way to go on this.
New Eden is a dirty place and there's no reason condoning the mass murder of ship crews should be looked over with a blind eye while corpse harvesting is taboo.
Basic clones could be easily implemented as a new P4. Say, Biotech Research Reports, Transcranial Microcontrollers, and Biomass makes a clone. I don't see the point in clone upgrades since a neural map is a neural map and if a clone brain can't take the memories and training of a great carrier pilot it's not going to be any better at taking the memories of a ditch digger. They both lived as long and formed as many memories. Just because one is memories of fleet battles and the other is of throwing dirt with a shovel doesn't matter on a synaptic level.
Frozen corpses recycle into components for high grade learning boosters. ( Yes, drugs from corpses is very 40k/Slennesh... don't care. It's a sick and twisted idea and we should totally do that. )
Low Grade learning boosters, Empire legal, could be made from gasses like other boosters - adding impetus to Low Sec development as Marlona Sky suggested.
This way it's another income source from Lowsec, the carebears that want the best learning boosters must deal in illegal substances and ostensibly pay people who have done PVP for them, and clones become another player made commodity tying directly into Dust.
+9000, very nice <3
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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