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So when did the drone balancing get rolled back entirely?

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Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2005.10.14 00:53:00 - [1] Light drone signature resolution: 25m Medium drone signature resolution: 25m Heavy drone signature resolution: 25m Weren't heavy drones supposed to have trouble tracking small targets, and intended chiefly for use against BS? I just saw an interceptor with its MWD turned off get mulched in seconds by heavy drones. It wasn't webbed, it wasn't painted, it was keeping a high transversal. Right now, there's no reason whatsoever not to use heavies if you have the room. I know what my Arma's packing for inty defense.
KadaEl	Posted - 2005.10.14 00:58:00 - [2] I think you may be slightly confused. Hornet Tracking:1.95 rad/sec Speed:3,200m/sec Ogre Tracking: .2 rad/sec Speed: 700m/sec sig radius does not affect how they hit small targets, tracking does. At least, that's what I think =) ------------------------------------------- KadaEl RONA Midgard Academy Teaching the world of tomorrow
keepiru	Posted - 2005.10.14 01:00:00 - [3] Right, and thats why the thorax's drone bay had to be cut... there's no tactical choice involved in choosing drone size a la turret size - except for heavy drone having low speed and tending to go into mating season more often. Either way, I havent been playing for that long, but its always been that way for as long as ive cared about the little important numbers in eve :) ------------- WTB: a Faction Micro Smartbomb :P
keepiru	Posted - 2005.10.14 01:02:00 - [4] Originally by: KadaEl I think you may be slightly confused. Hornet Tracking:1.95 rad/sec Speed:3,200m/sec Ogre Tracking: .2 rad/sec Speed: 700m/sec sig radius does not affect how they hit small targets, tracking does. At least, that's what I think =) Plug those numbers into the tracking guide with 25m sig resolution, and with the right orbit sizes into consideration, and youll see that all drones have the same actual tracking vs any target once in orbit. ------------- WTB: a Faction Micro Smartbomb :P
Megadon	Posted - 2005.10.14 01:03:00 - [5] Sure there's a reason not to use heavies 1. there slow 2. they take up a lot of drone bay space ...also, what does transversal have to do with drones? they are essentially tiny ships, they're not turrets, if they can keep up, they can munch, so you have to outrun them. Ogre's (Heavies) only have a speed of 700 m/s, Hammerheads 1400 m/s (Mediums) You're Welcome!
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.10.14 01:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Megadon Ogre's (Heavies) only have a speed of 700 m/s, I wish! My Ishtar will usually out up to 25% of my drone ogres without an AB/MWD fitted! Any drone "balancing" in this matter will have to fix a vast majority of the bugs...
Rivek	Posted - 2005.10.14 01:10:00 - [7] Its been that way since the changes a long while back. Previously drones had infinite effective gun range and perfect tracking. Now, they have limited range, very high tracking, and often the heavies or medium ones cant keep up with small targets. Heavies will, however, own ceptors that slow down or have to orbit close like a blaster equiped taranis. Yes they probably need tweaking, including buffing light and medium drones against their respective appropriate targets. See your name in lights at TunDraGon.com
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.14 01:39:00 - [8] No, it's more heavies need to miss frigs a bit and interceptors a lot. They'll still kill WEBBED ones, but.. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Caanan	Posted - 2005.10.14 01:49:00 - [9] Edited by: Caanan on 14/10/2005 01:53:18 If you leave mwd on i think you have a much better chance vs intys. Theyre slow so they cant stay in range of an inty. Bad inty pilot i guess :/ Not saying theyre not overpowered, they will still hurt the inty, but if you're not nossed webbed or scrammed the inty can escape.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2005.10.14 01:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Weren't heavy drones supposed to have trouble tracking small targets, and intended chiefly for use against BS? As stated in E-ON, Fighters (XL Drones) are the anti-BS drones. Quote: I just saw an interceptor with its MWD turned off get mulched in seconds by heavy drones. It wasn't webbed, it wasn't painted, it was keeping a high transversal. High transversal to what? Your ship? Or do you have some means of determining if it was keeping a high transversal to all the drones you had deployed? Quote: Right now, there's no reason whatsoever not to use heavies if you have the room. I know what my Arma's packing for inty defense. I'm sure they do a splendid job against long range inties.
Haniblecter Teg	Posted - 2005.10.14 03:03:00 - [11] I love drones and cherish my dominix. But for the love of god, fix all these minor drone bugs, like forced orbit velocity when closing on a target or drones getting stuck together. And while you're at it, streamline the scoop/release commands so that I can get them all in one command...instead of 6. Soo annoying. Friends Forever
Babalon	Posted - 2005.10.14 03:38:00 - [12] After the missile changes, I laughed my ass off how long it took me to kill a tanking npc interceptor. 3 assaults on it and it tanked it. Without drones we would still be fighting even now. I know Istvaan he is a great fan of the small ships, and does his best to make sure they stay invincible. Yes I know I can use my ravens 6 slots for target painting, web, a mwd to keep up, of course I would have no tank, and then the goal of the intys to tackle and hold you while his friend blows you to bits with his super tanked apoc. Inty users really do think it is appropriate that battleships have to fit half of their mid slots and half of their high slots to do frigate damage to an interceptor. tackling is becoming easier, and people still think a crow and a tempest should survive just as long when against a Raven.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.14 03:40:00 - [13] Or you could use one large nos. Yea. Or ANY drones - I'm suggesting that this be changed to medium/small drones for frigates and inties. So your raven would have to drop 2 heavies for 5 mediums. Not the biggest nerf ever, especially if you can control 9 or 10 drones... "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Randay	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:04:00 - [14] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Light drone signature resolution: 25m Medium drone signature resolution: 25m Heavy drone signature resolution: 25m Weren't heavy drones supposed to have trouble tracking small targets, and intended chiefly for use against BS? I just saw an interceptor with its MWD turned off get mulched in seconds by heavy drones. It wasn't webbed, it wasn't painted, it was keeping a high transversal. Right now, there's no reason whatsoever not to use heavies if you have the room. I know what my Arma's packing for inty defense. the guy died cus he didnt have his mwd on, if he turned it on the ogres would have dont nothing. and heavies are no good against mwd, so there is a reason to use mediums. afaik its always been like that even after the tracking changes. even then an inty going about 4000 orbiting at 20k can outrun mediums, then youll need lights, but then lights cant even break an inties tank sometimes. ------------------------------------------- "Det hõr kan betyda krig!"
keepiru	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:09:00 - [15] MWD or not mwd is not the point. The point is that unlike turrets - and now missiles - drones do not have penalties vis-a-vis pwning ships smaller than the intended target. They are to all effects ships with a turret, and the turret on heavy drones is effectively a L turret that can track frigates perfectly. Thats the issue. Heavy drones not catching up to small targets because of low speed and bad ai is a completely different slice of cheese. ------------- WTB: a Faction Micro Smartbomb :P
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:31:00 - [16] Right click 'drones in space', or if you put your drones in groups. right click the group. You can do anything here (attack, return, orbit, scoop, mine) that you can do to individual drones. _______________________________ Dyslexics of the world, Untie!
Arti K	Posted - 2005.10.14 07:32:00 - [17] Heavy drones use large turrets? then why do they only hit for 30 dmg? That's a pretty weak large turret imo.
Grey Area	Posted - 2005.10.14 08:01:00 - [18] Edited by: Grey Area on 14/10/2005 08:01:17 Originally by: Maya Rkell Not the biggest nerf ever, especially if you can control 9 or 10 drones... Excuse me...Caldari Pilot here...drones not exactly my forte, but now you're saying to defend against interceptors I need drone interfacing to level 5 AS WELL AS some small turret specialisation to level 5 to have any chance to defend against a tackler? In case you didn't notice, we still have about 15 mill's worth of skill training in missiles to do just to get back to somewhere near the point we were at before the patch. Drones are fine, leave 'em be. ========================================= * I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. * =========================================
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.10.14 08:18:00 - [19] Packing only heavy drones or medium drones doesn't help you much when you have an intercepter orbiting at speed at a reasonable distance, as they simply can't keep up to land a hit. Light drones are exactly stunning either as anything slower than warriors probably won't be able to even hit the faster interceptors that are using warp disrupters (i.e. >10km orbit) (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Randay	Posted - 2005.10.14 08:46:00 - [20] drones arent attached to your ship, thier transversal to the target is different from your own, so the speed of the drone compared to the speed of the inty would be important. if the drone can go as fast as the target it doesnt need much tracking at all right? given the speed of heavy drones they would probly be the equivalent of frigs, i dont see the problem with them being able to take out frigate sized targets. ------------------------------------------- "Det hõr kan betyda krig!"
Vicious Vic	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:05:00 - [21] Damn does this mean Interceptor "I WIN BUTTON" does not work against Heavy Drones. GOOD If anything drones as a weapons system are under power and buggy. Heavy Drones are putting out the type of damage that Medium drones should be. MAKE Scout drones effective Point defence units Medium drones extra damage more durable Heavy drones double damage half tracking.
Khaldorn Murino	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:12:00 - [22] Originally by: KadaEl I think you may be slightly confused. Hornet Tracking:1.95 rad/sec Speed:3,200m/sec Ogre Tracking: .2 rad/sec Speed: 700m/sec sig radius does not affect how they hit small targets, tracking does. At least, that's what I think =) Nahh, sig radius is your ships effective size if you will. Sig resolution is basically (read that basically) what it can hit. Read the tracking guide for a much better explanation than this half hearted attempt :) I believe isties right tho, heavier drones have more powerful guns therfore should be larger sig resolution? Or are the guns the same size? - Just a simple warrior.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:57:00 - [23] Having a bigger gun doesnt neccessarily make you a bigger ship. You could have a smaller engine, carry less ammo, have less onboard computers, or whatever. But in common sense and judging by mass relations of drones (5m3,10m3,25m3) you'd think that the sig radius would go up as the drones got bigger (maybe 15m/20m/25m, or somesuch). This wouldn't do what you're asking for though, would just make lights and mediums harder to hit :P It would give heavy drones equivalent sig to an interceptor. Which seems about right. But tbh, I dont think thsi change is needed at all, or relevant in anyway. I'm just bored and rambling. _______________________________ Dyslexics of the world, Untie!
Hannibal AntePorta	Posted - 2005.10.14 10:04:00 - [24] Another reason to be friends with me and my gimp destroyer! I spec the gimpy small turrets to kill Intercepters in a slow fashion so you don't have to!
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.14 11:02:00 - [25] The devs have indicated that they'd rather lower the number of drones deployed to lower server load. So I think nerfing of heavy drones in favor of lighter drones seems unlikely at this point... -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.10.14 11:02:00 - [26] A single heavy drone does the damage equivalent of one frigate turret. 10 heavy drones does the damage of 10 frigate turrets. Still, you need battleship-sized drone bays to use Heavy drones in such numbers. Im having a hard time deciding where to stand in this issue. Heavy drones are fine as they are today, but they are perhaps not in line with the ship size pattern used for turrets and missiles. Then again, NOSes, EW, Smartbombs, neutralizers... all those weapons don't take ship size in consideration, so you can't say it is just drones that are out of line.
ShadowlordUK	Posted - 2005.10.14 12:32:00 - [27] Erm.... heavy and medium drones will do absolutely nothing to a mwd'ing interceptor. And light drones dont do enough dmg to beat the tank of a single small armor rep
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.14 12:56:00 - [28] MWDing at close range is, as you well know, an expensive way of commiting suicide. Plus, if you're running a MWD your scramble will last, maybe, 30 seconds (disruptors GULP cap!) before cap runs out. Then the BS leaves. Oops? Grey Area, no, I'm saying that you'll have 6 heavies and 5 mediums. If you can only deploy 8, then that's 6/2 vs BS, and 3/5 vs Frigs. If you can deploy another drone, that's allways going to help. But it's hardly necessary in any sense of the word. And don't being missiles into the thread. keepiru is basically right. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Sorja	Posted - 2005.10.14 15:12:00 - [29] Heavy drones are WAY overpowered, they should not be able to kill an orbiting interceptor, plain and simple. As of now they do, which make drones the new 'I win' button. When tackling, lights and mediums give me a timeframe to do my job: I can tackle for 'some' time before having to bail out. When heavies lock me, I have to bail out immediately. CCP would like us to use the right weapon against the right target. But still, large turrets can annihilate frigs at range and heavy drones kill any size of target. Only missiles are balanced on that respect (while even light missiles can be pathetic against fast frigs). Heh, when NPCing, it's even more funny, I used to carry 4 heavies and 4 mediums (max Raven dronebay) and now only carry 6 heavies: frigates go down faster and cruisers much faster. It's perfectly 'ok' for frigateers to get killed (especially since interceptor prices have sunk low), but not from a single 'I win' tactics: launch heavy drones, attack, wait and laugh. Kill mails
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2005.10.14 15:32:00 - [30] Edited by: Toaster Oven on 14/10/2005 15:34:28 Originally by: Sorja Heavy drones are WAY overpowered, they should not be able to kill an orbiting interceptor, plain and simple. As of now they do, which make drones the new 'I win' button. So you want interceptors to be the 'I win' button as nothing should be able to kill em? Quote: When tackling, lights and mediums give me a timeframe to do my job: I can tackle for 'some' time before having to bail out. When heavies lock me, I have to bail out immediately. I have no problems outrunning and avoid being hit by heavy drones in my Stabber. It is really really sad if you can't do the same in your inty. Quote: CCP would like us to use the right weapon against the right target. But still, large turrets can annihilate frigs at range and heavy drones kill any size of target. Only missiles are balanced on that respect (while even light missiles can be pathetic against fast frigs). Yet another missile user crying out for any nerf because CCP took away their pwn all torps. Boohoo Quote: Heh, when NPCing, it's even more funny, I used to carry 4 heavies and 4 mediums (max Raven dronebay) and now only carry 6 heavies: frigates go down faster and cruisers much faster. Yes, NPC behavior has much to do with PVP combat. Quote: It's perfectly 'ok' for frigateers to get killed (especially since interceptor prices have sunk low), but not from a single 'I win' tactics: launch heavy drones, attack, wait and laugh. Crying out for a nerf becuase you can't make a simple adjustment in tactics to counter heavy drones is pathetic. MWD on, orbit at 15km. Heavy drones can't touch you. If you come in close, turn off your MWD, and/or get webbed, you have only yourself to blame if you get blown to bits by drones

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