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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2084
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
How quick does a single battleship die in a big fleet battle?
I guess CCP can always say "fleet boosting in big fleet battles was never meant to be profitable" or something.
It's not like this affects me anyway, since I don't take part in any "ops" where there's more people in the fleet than is allowed for one squad. I'm simply pointing out flawed design methodology and balance inconsistencies. No one's still addressed the risk/reward disparity between high-sec and other areas of space when it comes to on-grid boosting. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1377
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 23:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Personally doubt we will see or hear anything with regards to CC revamp until they find a solution to the off-/on-grid link question as splitting those two development wise would mean more work overall .. all pressure is on the coders to solve the grid vs. system riddle and it will increase as stuff is crossed off the tiericide list.
Highly doubt this. There was something I recall CCP Fozzie talking about where they wanted to at least get the boosting changes done, considering they have no idea yet how to fix the off grid boosting part.
So I fully expect we will see the boosting changes happen sooner rather than later. We may or may not ever see the OGB go away, depending on technical difficulties.
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baltec1
Bat Country
6516
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Posted - 2013.05.19 23:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:How quick does a single battleship die in a big fleet battle?
Depends on the quality of your logi. |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
222
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Posted - 2013.05.19 23:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:They can fix links by making them unable to work inside a POS shield, while at the same time giving them the siege mechanic that immobilizes the boosting ships during use. Then you either have to choose between deploying them to the fight itself, or risk getting probed out and killed without support.
Just making them be required to be present on the battlefield is stupid. They're glass ships that can be popped in 2-3 Tornado volleys. Part of the proposed buff was to make command ships on grid BUT ALSO to make them much more resilient and combat ready, which is why this buff is wanted by so many of us. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2084
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 00:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:How quick does a single battleship die in a big fleet battle?
Depends on the quality of your logi. If incoming damage exceeds your hitpoints in a small time frame, logistics quality doesn't really matter much. I don't do 0.0 stuff anymore, but I'm gonna go ahead and assume that forty or more ships shooting you with 1400mm is going to be an instant death no matter what kind of tank you have on a booster, generally speaking.
If, like the guy above says, CCP is going to boost the health of booster ships, that's fine, but that in itself might make them a bit unbalanced in other situations. Either way, 0.0 people are going to be required to field spares in combat, and empire pvpers will be even more immune, since the only way to deal with boosters in empire is to gank them, and if they get a hitpoint increase, well... I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Mirima Thurander
650
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Posted - 2013.05.20 00:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:They also said one day they'll fix POSes and overhaul drones.
and the the NEXT Lead Dev in charge said
POSes don't effect enough players......
and
Drones are fine....
AKA
THESE ARE NOT WHAT I LIKE IN EVE AND AS THE LEAD DEV WE WILL DO WHAT I SAY NOT WHAT YOU WANT.
so bugger off your getting mini-games and ice stuff.
All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel. |
Kalla Vera Quiroga
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
9
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Posted - 2013.05.20 00:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
Why..not use standard battlecruisers for boosting...? Or is command ship boosts that mandatory to completely disregard the latter? |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
222
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Posted - 2013.05.20 00:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:They can give all the boosting ships an extra million hitpoints and my argument will remain the same. I'm not arguing against the concept of the defense/payload tradeoff, but the fact that the change constitutes a simple cash grab by CCP since the only way to compensate for it will be to field more of the things.
I sort of disagree with this. Off-Grid boosters are much too powerful. As part of a group of people that has small gang roams in Syndicate often, the off-grid boosts really hurt us in that we have no way of taking down their booster in order to come onto an equal playing field.
Also, I would appreciate on-grid boosts more in that we would have a viable command ship - it would not only provide boosts, but would be quite fun to fly for people like me, who don't have an alt or can not afford one. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2084
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 01:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kalla Vera Quiroga wrote:Why..not use standard battlecruisers for boosting...? Or is command ship boosts that mandatory to completely disregard the latter? The lack of bonuses just doesn't make them worth it. Especially considering what's often at stake.
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:They can give all the boosting ships an extra million hitpoints and my argument will remain the same. I'm not arguing against the concept of the defense/payload tradeoff, but the fact that the change constitutes a simple cash grab by CCP since the only way to compensate for it will be to field more of the things. I sort of disagree with this. Off-Grid boosters are much too powerful. As part of a group of people that has small gang roams in Syndicate often, the off-grid boosts really hurt us in that we have no way of taking down their booster in order to come onto an equal playing field. Also, I would appreciate on-grid boosts more in that we would have a viable command ship - it would not only provide boosts, but would be quite fun to fly for people like me, who don't have an alt or can not afford one. This is a mind trick. Boosters aren't just available to groups who are outnumbered as a means of gaining an advantage; they're available to everyone. As such, if we have off-grid boosters, then both sides (your small gang and the larger enemy) both keep them safely off-grid, and both get the benefit of their bonuses. Your small gang might not get extra benefits, but at least gets an equalizing factor that prevents the larger enemy from having an extra advantage.
If boosters are to be kept on-grid, then you will actually be at a disadvantage because the larger enemy is more able to kill your booster with superior firepower, while keeping their own alive with more logistics. If anything, making boosters required to be on-grid will almost eliminate the utility that small gangs get from them. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
223
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Posted - 2013.05.20 01:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Kalla Vera Quiroga wrote:Why..not use standard battlecruisers for boosting...? Or is command ship boosts that mandatory to completely disregard the latter? The lack of bonuses just doesn't make them worth it. Especially considering what's often at stake. Nyancat Audeles wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:They can give all the boosting ships an extra million hitpoints and my argument will remain the same. I'm not arguing against the concept of the defense/payload tradeoff, but the fact that the change constitutes a simple cash grab by CCP since the only way to compensate for it will be to field more of the things. I sort of disagree with this. Off-Grid boosters are much too powerful. As part of a group of people that has small gang roams in Syndicate often, the off-grid boosts really hurt us in that we have no way of taking down their booster in order to come onto an equal playing field. Also, I would appreciate on-grid boosts more in that we would have a viable command ship - it would not only provide boosts, but would be quite fun to fly for people like me, who don't have an alt or can not afford one. This is a mind trick. Boosters aren't just available to groups who are outnumbered as a means of gaining an advantage; they're available to everyone. As such, if we have off-grid boosters, then both sides (your small gang and the larger enemy) both keep them safely off-grid, and both get the benefit of their bonuses. Your small gang might not get extra benefits, but at least gets an equalizing factor that prevents the larger enemy from having an extra advantage. If boosters are to be kept on-grid, then you will actually be at a disadvantage because the larger enemy is more able to kill your booster with superior firepower, while keeping their own alive with more logistics. If anything, making boosters required to be on-grid will almost eliminate the utility that small gangs get from them. This makes sense! I did not think of this before. |
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2088
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 02:00:00 -
[41] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:This makes sense! I did not think of this before. You won't often find me commenting on stuff I don't know very well (I never talk about sov. warfare, for example), but there are certain things in the game that I understand to a very high degree, and boosting is one of them. I had my first fully-maxed booster around 2007, and I've been using links to a great extent since then. In fact, most of my kills wouldn't have been possible without them, since I'm usually significantly outnumbered when I fight.
By all means, I agree with the public sentiment here that something about off-grid links just isn't right, but I think that simply making them required to be on-grid is a very heavy-handed and unrefined solution. What you want to fix is their virtual invulnerability inside POS bubbles, and to a lesser extent, making them more static and probe-able. Stacking ECCM makes them pretty difficult to find, even when there's no POS in the equation.
I also think that increasing their EHP isn't a very good idea, because that will make links even more difficult to counter in high-sec space. I really hope they don't give boosters the suspect flag for neutral boosting, though, since that will just marginalize their use to the groups who have the numbers to field enough logistics to make the suspect flag irrelevant anyway. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Maggeridon Thoraz
Reconfiguration Nation Existential Anxiety
65
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Posted - 2013.05.20 04:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Just making them be required to be present on the battlefield is stupid. They're glass ships that can be popped in 2-3 Tornado volleys.
A damnation can get over 300k buffer...
i think we are talking here about t3s
t3s with 3 warfare mods in the highs are glass thin. for them to be have on grid they must have way bigger tank than now , actually better than the t2 boosters , but then you have a problem i think with t3 at all.... beeing so tanky..... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3592
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 07:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:They also said one day they'll fix POSes and overhaul drones. POSes only affect a small fraction of players.
The new rat AI changes have greatly changed we the way we use drones in PVE. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2886
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
How to fix links in hisec:
disable them like cynos and bombs, done
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7919
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Tippia wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:baltec1 wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: Just making them be required to be present on the battlefield is stupid. They're glass ships that can be popped in 2-3 Tornado volleys.
A damnation can get over 300k buffer... With how many links? The three it's intended to have. Hell, even the wtfawfulineveryway Eos gets 140k EHP. That's the part I don't wholly agree with.
Six-link setups are dumb, hth mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
736
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:51:00 -
[46] - Quote
Off-grid boosting is fine. It's POS-boosting that should diaf. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2886
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Andski wrote: Six-link setups are dumb, hth
She uses neutral boosters against wardecced carebears in hisec, it's pretty safe to disregard her opinions in this matter.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7919
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Stacking ECCM makes them pretty difficult to find, even when there's no POS in the equation.
The probe chance math needs to be reworked to diminish the role sensor strength has in the equation. I'm sorry but turning "impossible to probe" into "impossible to probe without a full virtue set and probing hardwirings with perfect probing skills" wasn't a good solution. mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7919
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
And I say that as somebody who has done the whole "boost from a safespot in a loki with a full jackal set" thing. It's completely broken. mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2886
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 08:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
You don't need Virtues after Odyssey, just pile on the new T2 probing mods on a Buzzard or Helios, even probing skills were buffed.
Combat probing is about to get a massive buff
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9455
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Posted - 2013.05.20 08:58:00 -
[51] - Quote
QuakeGod wrote:Making the command modules work on-grid only shouldn't be hard to implement at all. All they have to do is make the command modules have a radius or range of 100km or so. If you are outside of that range, you no longer receive the benefits.
And you base this statement on what knowledge and experience?
1 Kings 12:11
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2091
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 09:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Roime wrote:Andski wrote: Six-link setups are dumb, hth
She uses neutral boosters against wardecced carebears in hisec, it's pretty safe to disregard her opinions in this matter. Hello, alt of previous victim. Nice to see you. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Sons Of Alexander AL3XAND3R.
508
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 09:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
If you want to make a miner spit the dummy, tell him that Rorq bonuses will have to be ongrid after Odyssey.
Pure comedy. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2091
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 09:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:If you want to make a miner spit the dummy, tell him that Rorq bonuses will have to be ongrid after Odyssey.
Pure comedy. You know, I was saving that in case this thread hit page 5 or so. Thanks for ruining everything. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
baltec1
Bat Country
6529
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 09:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: If incoming damage exceeds your hitpoints in a small time frame, logistics quality doesn't really matter much. I don't do 0.0 stuff anymore, but I'm gonna go ahead and assume that forty or more ships shooting you with 1400mm is going to be an instant death no matter what kind of tank you have on a booster, generally speaking.
We already have command ships in our fleets and they do just fine. If they have the power to alpha a ship with more EHP than most battleships then your fleet has bigger issues to worry about. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
670
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 10:10:00 -
[56] - Quote
QuakeGod wrote:Making the command modules work on-grid only shouldn't be hard to implement at all. All they have to do is make the command modules have a radius or range of 100km or so. If you are outside of that range, you no longer receive the benefits. Range will probably be part of the solution, but it cannot be the only one :becauseGridFu:. CCP would have to either declare grid manipulation an exploit or redesign the entire thing to stop it .. the former is just bad game management (and would be threadnaughted in a heartbeat) and the latter would suck up an insane amount of Dev hours.
Destiny Corrupted wrote:What are they going to do, make boosting non-corp-members give you a suspect flag?
Oh, ****. Suspect flag = more work for Concord (they are the ones tracking/bestowing it). Why would they ever agree to such a thing when they can just as easily deny access to advanced military command and control assets while under their umbrella (ie. all non-mining links can't activate or counts as aggression)? .. they already disallowed carriers/dreads and their cynos so the precedent is there
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2091
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Posted - 2013.05.20 10:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
Actually, caps were disallowed in high-sec due to the very specific reason of CONCORD not being, uh, "competent" enough to deal with them, let's just say. Now that CONCORD has been a kill trigger form a couple of years, I see no reason why they shouldn't reverse that change (that's not true, I actually see a lot of reasons). I, for one, am looking forward to our new God Squad titan overlords. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
217
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Posted - 2013.05.20 10:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
I think its more about risk, a T3 booster sitting inside a POS has little or no risk getting hit. I think CCP wants to end that. Which is a good move imo. You want to give boost to a fleet, you assume the same risk as them. ...................................................... |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2091
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 10:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Posting to confirm that all successful military forces put their top leaders in shiny vehicles and send them to the front lines during actual combat operations. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |
baltec1
Bat Country
6532
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 11:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Posting to confirm that all successful military forces put their top leaders in shiny vehicles and send them to the front lines during actual combat operations.
General Dannat used to fly to the front line in Afghanistan bumming tabs off squaddies in a chinook to see the lads off.
Prince Harry flew in an Apachi in his second tour of afghan.
Prince Andrew flew a Linx in the Falklands war.
Admiral Sir John Jellicoe was on HMS Iron Duke at the battle of Jutland. |
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