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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:28:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Bloodspire
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 18/10/2005 23:17:07
thats it, he just got pwnd!!! and ill bet he bought his shiny ride off ebay with the rent money and now he has to go live with his ma and so thought hed spread his pain with us
*group hug*
Are you refferring to me
If so grow up this is a serious discussion
Yes i was referring to you, yes i am grown up, tbh i think i get better discussions out of my 4 year old daughter, hell my 7month old daughter gives better discussion, oh and yes i am trying my best to liven up this boring thread and throw it off-topic as much as i can, oh and a lock would come in handy bout now as its really advertising for the bad guys
Free Websites |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:30:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Bloodspire
So far some have agreed but some do not understand how serious this is
No matter if you can kill him easily it is a un-fair kill no matter what you do
There is nothing that can justify breaking the law
No laws are being broken. It's just a breach of contract, which entitles CCP to terminate the account; and that's what CCP do.
Selling your character/ships/blueprints for real life money is not a crime.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Could a moderator please remind this person about bypassing the profanity filter.
And stop using so many stupid smilies.
They did and [p]issed off is ok to use if you are describing emotions...if you are saying it to say that you are drunk then it is not ok....
*snip* did it myself for your very own pleasure  lol
And stay on the subject of the thread!<<<<<just for you ; )
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:32:00 -
[34]
exactly, EULA -End User License Agreement, by selling ISK etc you break the agreement and leave your self open to banning, by selling on ebay you leave your ebay account open to closing, closing being the opperative word here as thats what this thread should be doing.
Free Websites |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:36:00 -
[35]
And for you all that have not been through law school...
A contract is binding by law and therefor it is subject to the laws that lie within...
You can be prosecuted for breaking the law you all know that so why are you posting the opposite?
ItŠs like telling a bank "no I donŠt have to pay my bills because they are all in computer programs and therefor they are virtual"
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:37:00 -
[36]
if its okay to use it because it portraying an emotiong then why use the brackets to bypass the filter? its there to keep these boards clean for the younger audience, i wouldnt wanting my child coming on these boards when there are people around like you effing and jeffing all the time, and oh yeah, youre breaking the forum rules 
Free Websites |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:39:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Bloodspire
And for you all that have not been through law school...
A contract is binding by law and therefor it is subject to the laws that lie within...
You can be prosecuted for breaking the law you all know that so why are you posting the opposite?
Don't try to make yourself look clever by posting gibberish like this. A contract is legally binding; *therefore*, when one party breaches the terms of it, it becomes void, and the other party is no longer bound.
You can NOT be prosecuted for breaking a contract.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:40:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 18/10/2005 23:41:13
Originally by: Bloodspire
And for you all that have not been through law school...
A contract is binding by law and therefor it is subject to the laws that lie within...
You can be prosecuted for breaking the law you all know that so why are you posting the opposite?
ItŠs like telling a bank "no I donŠt have to pay my bills because they are all in computer programs and therefor they are virtual"
Hoho, you really no lots dont you, the EULA is nothing to do with "law" it is to do with the people the contract is between, and no if i tell my bank that i aint paying my bills there is little they can do, other than spend around a year or so sending automated messages about arrears and doorstep collections and call me over and over again.
If it was that easy then the world wouldnt be in so much personal debt, coz the creditors would just call the police when someone misses a payment.
Free Websites |
Hot Karl
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:44:00 -
[39]
I'm sorry to have to get unpleasant, but this guy really needs to be straightened out.
This is terrorism
This is disturbing, but not terrorism.
Do you understand the difference?
Just change the title, is it really so hard?
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hot Karl
I'm sorry to have to get unpleasant, but this guy really needs to be straightened out.
This is terrorism
This is disturbing, but not terrorism.
Do you understand the difference?
Just change the title, is it really so hard?
Safe
Free Websites |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:50:00 -
[41]
I donŠt believe what I am reading!
This is ridiculous!
Call a lawyer and ask if you can get prosecuted for breaking/breaching a contract!
Then say it canŠt be done!
What is a matter with you all?
I am trying to have a conversation about solutions for the matter at hand but instead all you nei sayers start flaming me!
If you donŠt like the topic just write "I donŠt agree"
DonŠt be personally attacking me!
These are my thoughts about the matter and those thoughts are mine to have...
I am looking for someone who gives a damn about gaming experience!
Not some nei sayers that donŠt even know the laws of life!
If you donŠt have something positive to say about the subject donŠt be venting off your grief here make your own thread!
Bloodspire
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Hot Karl
Just change the title, is it really so hard?
LetŠs get one thing straight pal!!!!!
I was there you damn flamer!!!
Were you there?
Did you loose some one you knew?
I did!!!!
So keep your opinions to yourself!!!
The title was changed already to Terror...that is not Terrorism!!!
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Hot Karl
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:57:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Hot Karl on 19/10/2005 00:02:55
My personal experience is irrelevant Edit: Your experience isn'r relevant either. You are using hyperbole in order to illicit sympathy from your readers, and it's offensive.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:01:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/10/2005 00:04:01
Bloodspire, if you want to discuss RMT, let's use a sanity check.
RMT is perfectly legal. If is, however, against the EULA and (except in Korea, as a result of a recent legal descision) an game provider has every right to terminate service for RMT if they wish. They cannot sue you - their remedy (termination of service) is quite clearly laid out in the EULA which you have apparently failed to read.
While some people MIGHT exploit to get isk they sell, there is no proof of this in this situation. And don't post about exploits on the forums, if you suspect an exploit file a bug report about it.
Why is this "of course destroying the Eve economy"? Figures plz. It is a tiny problem in Eve compared to most games, due largely to the design. You yourself point out player skill is a huge factor - a nub with a high SP account is STILL a nub in Eve. And can lose it all, very easily.
People will want to use RMT services. This is human nature. The only way to mitigate against this is game design, where Eve is quite successful, unlike more "grindy-y" games like Wow.
(at this point, I also think it'd only be fair for Bloodspire's account to be checked for RMT)
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:02:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Hot Karl
My personal experience is irrelevant. You are using hyperbole in order to illicit sympathy from your readers, and it's offensive.
What is offensive is your lack of respect for others!
Sympathy has nothing to do with this thread...this is a harsh reality check for all the character,isk and items sellers that break the law by selling virtual items on ebay!
You have no right to link to terrorism acts...That is offensive and very un-human!
Be gone from my thread...
/mumbles about people who donŠt have respect for the dead..............
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/10/2005 00:02:12
Bloodspire, if you want to discuss RMT, let's use a sanity check.
RMT is perfectly legal. If is, however, against the EULA and (except in Korea, as a result of a recent legal descision) an game provider has every right to terminate service for RMT if they wish. They cannot sue you - their remedy (termination of service) is quite clearly laid out in the EULA which you have apparently failed to read.
While some people MIGHT exploit to get isk they sell, there is no proof of this in this situation. And don't post about exploits on the forums, if you suspect an exploit file a bug report about it.
Why is this "of course destroying the Eve economy"? Figures plz. It is a tiny problem in Eve compared to most games, due largely to the design. You yourself point out player skill is a huge factor - a nub with a high SP account is STILL a nub in Eve. And can lose it all, very easily.
People will want to use RMT services. This is human nature. The only way to mitigate against this is game design, where Eve is quite successful, unlike more "grindy-y" games like Wow.
That is why I made a plea in the end of the first post!
For the love of Eve...Are all of you on the wrong side of the law?
You are all coming up with ways how to beat the system...Why not come with a suggestion on how to improve it?
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Hot Karl
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:05:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Bloodspire
You have no right to link to terrorism acts...That is offensive and very un-human!
Be gone from my thread...
/mumbles about people who donŠt have respect for the dead..............
I didn't make the link, you did. I didn't show disrespect to the dead, you did. I didn't label something as terrorism when it clearly isn't, you did.
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:08:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 00:10:55
A web link you un-educated fool!!!
Stop posting on this thread!
And what is with the childish you did, I did part?
You obviously donŠt know how to read as I said donŠt be posting something that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread!!!
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Hot Karl
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:09:00 -
[49]
Now who's calling people names?
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/10/2005 00:10:15
Originally by: Bloodspire
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/10/2005 00:02:12
Bloodspire, if you want to discuss RMT, let's use a sanity check.
RMT is perfectly legal. If is, however, against the EULA and (except in Korea, as a result of a recent legal descision) an game provider has every right to terminate service for RMT if they wish. They cannot sue you - their remedy (termination of service) is quite clearly laid out in the EULA which you have apparently failed to read.
While some people MIGHT exploit to get isk they sell, there is no proof of this in this situation. And don't post about exploits on the forums, if you suspect an exploit file a bug report about it.
Why is this "of course destroying the Eve economy"? Figures plz. It is a tiny problem in Eve compared to most games, due largely to the design. You yourself point out player skill is a huge factor - a nub with a high SP account is STILL a nub in Eve. And can lose it all, very easily.
People will want to use RMT services. This is human nature. The only way to mitigate against this is game design, where Eve is quite successful, unlike more "grindy-y" games like Wow.
That is why I made a plea in the end of the first post!
For the love of Eve...Are all of you on the wrong side of the law?
You are all coming up with ways how to beat the system...Why not come with a suggestion on how to improve it?
Nope. I do not engage in RMT.
I'm not "comming up with ways to beat the system", I'm pointing out that you do not understand how the system works - you appear not to have even read the EULA, which quite clearly spells out how CCP responds to RMT.
I don't think any *major* action is necessary. Certainly, track and stop the organised companies involved in RMT, if they enter Eve. But the game design makes RMT fairly pointless in Eve compared to the vast majority of MMO's, as it stands.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
F'nog
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:17:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Call a lawyer and ask if you can get prosecuted for breaking/breaching a contract!
Then say it canŠt be done!
You can be prosecuted, i.e. sued, by the other party of the contract for breach of said contract. You CANNOT, however, be arrested for it, which is what you are claiming. No governmental force, i.e. "the law" cares about breaches of contract. It is purely and 100% a civil matter.
Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:20:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 00:21:16
We all know that the system does not work that is why this thread was started!
My plea was to the honest people in Eve to help get rid of the "bad seed"
Not to talk about where the system failed...It has fallen and we are here to pick it up!
EULA is a contract that we all agree upon once we enter the world of Eve...
And no matter what all you say...It is against the law to sell your in-game items,isk,characters for Real Money!
EULA=Law
EULA Contract= law binding
You break the law= you get prosecuted
Prosecuted= you get convicted
Convicted= you go to jail
Jail= you get a criminal record for virtual crimes
But CCP does not prosecute they only ban accounts and people...
Why you ask!
Because it costs too much too prosecute someone!
Edit because of post above....I never said you could get arressted!
only that you could be prosecuted! It is indeed only a Civil Court Case!
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 00:21:16
We all know that the system does not work that is why this thread was started!
My plea was to the honest people in Eve to help get rid of the "bad seed"
Not to talk about where the system failed...It has fallen and we are here to pick it up!
EULA is a contract that we all agree upon once we enter the world of Eve...
And no matter what all you say...It is against the law to sell your in-game items,isk,characters for Real Money!
EULA=Law
EULA Contract= law binding
You break the law= you get prosecuted
Prosecuted= you get convicted
Convicted= you go to jail
Jail= you get a criminal record for virtual crimes
But CCP does not prosecute they only ban accounts and people...
Why you ask!
Because it costs too much too prosecute someone!
Edit because of post above....I never said you could get arressted!
only that you could be prosecuted! It is indeed only a Civil Court Case!
It was laid out for you in a post by Maya.
Grasping the concept is clearly beyond you so its a pointless debate.
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Jorev
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:31:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jorev on 19/10/2005 00:31:37
Originally by: Bloodspire
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 00:21:16
And no matter what all you say...It is against the law to sell your in-game items,isk,characters for Real Money!
Yes, it doesn't matter what we all say, you will choose to remain ignorant and downright hysterical.
In fact, there really isn't law on this, until tested. So far it hasn't been tested. Why? Becaue corporate lawyers for gaming companies advised against it cause they don't think they can prevail. That why Sony, Blizzard, CCP will ban ppl but they will not file a civil case. Cause they will lose, just like the Korean case went.
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:36:00 -
[55]
There wouldn't be a market for ebay isk if there wasn't buyers. 
Anyway, I bet most of the ebay isk purchase comes from new players. Its a ***** to mine up for a cruiser in a batam.
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Berak FalCheran
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:53:00 -
[56]
Thanks for your terrible OP
It was pretty obnoxious
Anyway, I'm not sure how people selling isk 'ruins the economy'. It's simply moving money around, not adding or removing money to the economy, or removing it. If anything it just encourages the economy by probably increasing spending. (I can't imagine people buy isk to just look at their big wallet, lol)
So in summary:
against the EULA? yes
ruining the economy? no
something ebay could be sued over? I really doubt it
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
In short:
Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
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Qwant
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:55:00 -
[57]
Okay double posts, obnoxious smiles and bypassing the profanity filter. Mods wth are you with the lock?
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Colonel O'Neill
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:14:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Did you know that you can buy 1 Billion isk for 264 dollars today?
Did you know that you can buy a 20 mill character for 1500 dollars today?
Did you know that you can buy BPOŠs from 1000 dollars to 5000 dollars today?
Who the hell would spend that kind of RL cash on a GAME?
// Colonel |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:31:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 01:32:31
Originally by: Qwant
Okay double posts, obnoxious smiles and bypassing the profanity filter. Mods wth are you with the lock?
"wth" is bypassing the profanity filter...
and keep the discussion on the topic of the thread!
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Expert Newbie
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:43:00 -
[60]
There are those who would be more than willing to spend that kind of money on a game.
The way I view it, it's something that happens and nobody can really stop it, so it's useless spending time and effort stopping it. If you think about it though, it's a transfer of items from one person to another. They are not illegally reproducing isk, one person gains items/money and the other person loses it. The money paid for it is also outside of the game and is in limited quantities; unlike earning isk in a game, real money isn't earned so easily. So in the end, the activity really doesn't hurt gameplay.
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