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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Bloodspire on 18/10/2005 23:08:12
Ever since I started playing Eve I have been very curious about the many aspects of Eve so one day in my 3rd month of playing I look up Eve in google and I get alot of Ebay related links. Of course I check what ebay has to do with Eve and there to my amazement I see isk for sale, characters for sale, items for sale. This really made me fill sick inside.
Did you know that you can buy 1 Billion isk for 264 dollars today?
Did you know that you can buy a 20 mill character for 1500 dollars today?
Did you know that you can buy BPOŠs from 1000 dollars to 5000 dollars today?
This of course is destroying the Eve Online Economy
We have of course seen the banning of isk sellers and macro users, but there are still huge sales being made everyday
Example:
I contacted GnomeItems last night and asked them if they would sell me 5 Billion isk for 1500 dollars and they said...Will next Saturday be ok
Using exploits is against CCP regulations
I concider it to be an exploit to have an un-fair advantage on other Eve players because of Ebay bought Characters, items and isk
Selling virtual items outside of the Eve community for Real Money is against the EULA and therefor it is punishable with banning and/or legal prosecution
My plea is this:
All of you honest Eve players out there, help CCP get rid of these sellers once and for all.
If you know your friend is selling isk, tell him to stop it for his own good
If you are leaving Eve and want to sell your character donŠt do it for the sake of the rest of us in Eve
Do not sell your in-game currency, items or characters to illegal businesses on ebay or any other MMORPG selling businesses
Would you like it if a 7 day old player would get a 30 million Sp character with 6 Billion isk and a Navy Apocalypse fitted with T2 Large Lasers,T2 Drones, T2 Fittings and Missiles and meet you in your Frigate alone in space with no way to go and he decides to scramble you and shoot you because he dreams of being a big bad pirate?
Even though he will get blown up eventually because letŠs face it, nOObŠs canŠt really fly Apocalypse BattleShips...But you get my point
So DO what you can do to safe the Eve Community from these thiefs/scammers/law breakers/economy terrorists
Your Fellow Eve Player
Bloodspire
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Josiah Bartlet
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:38:00 -
[2]
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Velsharoon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:39:00 -
[3]
Im thinking its pretty funny i could technically be destroying someones RL money, bring on the rich nubs tbh
but in all seriousness its wrong :)
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spRAYed
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:40:00 -
[4]
Edited by: spRAYed on 18/10/2005 22:42:49
EDIT: WTS 30 bill isk 
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killboard.co.uk |
Solar Sailor
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:41:00 -
[5]
Its an epidemic that affect most MMOG's. And Ebay won't do crap about it as long as they get their cut.
Dunno if Ebay could be sued over it, but even then it wouldn't stop.
I would like to see an honest way to trade off a character though, maybe swap it for one in another game or whatever.
-------
Bringer of Squirrelly Wrath - Foaminian Card Cult
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oDDiTy V2
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:44:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Bloodspire
Would you like it if a 7 day old player would get a 30 million Sp character with 6 Billion isk and a Navy Apocalypse fitted with T2 Large Lasers,T2 Drones, T2 Fittings and Missiles and meet you in your Frigate alone in space with no way to go and he decides to scramble you and shoot you because he dreams of being a big bad pirate
Yeah, I wouldn't mind that actually. Becuase, chances are, that 7 day old player won't know wtf he's doing. Wouldnt mind getting a navy apoc kill in my harpy. ;)
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:46:00 -
[7]
buying advantages 4tl
Free Websites |
Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Solar Sailor
Its an epidemic that affect most MMOG's. And Ebay won't do crap about it as long as they get their cut.
Dunno if Ebay could be sued over it, but even then it wouldn't stop.
I would like to see an honest way to trade off a character though, maybe swap it for one in another game or whatever.
Fraid ebay cant be sued, its not breaking the EULA, and it doesnt actually allow the sale of electronic goods. (transactions i.e. buying something you cant post)
Free Websites |
St Dragon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:51:00 -
[9]
True its common problem in mmo's and a bit unfare exept that in eve we can kill them and destroy a $300 faction raven brought off ebay 
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Hot Karl
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:54:00 -
[10]
You know something? I'm getting really, really tired of this whole "Everyone's some kind of terrorist" mentality.
Terrorism is something very specific, and some dude sitting in his underwear in his mother's basement playing a video game and making RL money off of it...isn't it.
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: St Dragon
True its common problem in mmo's and a bit unfare exept that in eve we can kill them and destroy a $300 faction raven brought off ebay
Spot on, so easy to spot them that are cheating, when there faction BS goes pop and you get mail in local proclaiming you have ruined their life and they are now going to hang themselves 
Free Websites |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 22:59:00 -
[12]
So far some have agreed but some do not understand how serious this is
No matter if you can kill him easily it is a un-fair kill no matter what you do
There is nothing that can justify breaking the law
And yes it is true, you can not sue Ebay for they are only an auction website and they have no say in what is auctioned off unless it breaks the laws towards minors and such filth
Un-fair advantage in-game due to virtually bought items is against The EULA
So if you are a buyer you should be banned and/or prosecuted
So if you are a seller you should be banned and prosecuted
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Alexis Ayala
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:00:00 -
[13]
I agree with Karl, please remove the Terrorism title if you will...
I think buying money is cheap, and silly, and yes, it is illegal, but it's not Terrorism, please remove the reference.
~~~<*>~~~<*>~~~<*>~~~<*>~~~<*>~~~<*>~~~<*>~~~<*>~~~
Doctor Alexis Ayala
GHINC - Gallente Horizons Incorporated
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John Logan
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:00:00 -
[14]
Edited by: John Logan on 18/10/2005 23:05:00
Yes, this problem has been around since the early days of UO and affects every MMO and is against most if not all EULA's. I think a lot of people tolerate the fact that it's going on and i am suprised you were amazed when viewing the auctions on Ebay. I am against it, don't get me wrong.
There's not much you can do as most people will not reveal their identity until after a sale. ISK transfers can be monitored in game but outside of the game there isn't any way to combat it swiftly and effectively. You could have Ebay trawl through all the auctions and close down all the sales of in-game currencies etc it can but that would probably require more manpower, something they would unlikely be willing to do.
And a 7 day old wouldnt show as a 7 day old with 30m sp, buying such an advanced account would be a waste as they would probably lose a lot of the assets through carelessness and lack of knowledge, but maybe someone wants to buy the character as an alt. And you can transfer characters between accounts using the EVE character transfer, but i believe you are not allowed to transfer ownership of the account. Selling the character before transfer aswell where you are not actually selling an account i believe is still also against the EULA, though somewhere to advertise/swap characters would possibly be a good alternative.
As for Ebay being sued, they probably have it in their EULA that they cannot accept responsibility for any infringements on copyright etc and that that falls on the sellers shoulders, making them liable.
There have been cases of economic collapse within an MMO, but that was more to do with an in-game exploit which allowed you to create currency rather than just selling it off. And that's when the dev's step in and help drain money out the system till the economy settles again, but not going to happen in EVE.
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Zhai'helleva |
Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Alexis Ayala
I agree with Karl, please remove the Terrorism title if you will...
I think buying money is cheap, and silly, and yes, it is illegal, but it's not Terrorism, please remove the reference.
good point, our boys and our families are dying due to terrorism, gaining unfair advantage in a virtual world is technically effecting no-one, change the title.
/signed
Free Websites |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:06:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Bloodspire on 18/10/2005 23:28:00
Edited by: Bloodspire on 18/10/2005 23:08:54
Originally by: Hot Karl
You know something? I'm getting really, really tired of this whole "Everyone's some kind of terrorist" mentality.
Terrorism is something very specific, and some dude sitting in his underwear in his mother's basement playing a video game and making RL money off of it...isn't it.
It was stated: Economical Terrorist
It has been changed
Terrorist is someone who destroys peoples assets, ruins the economy and so forth...
We are not talking about the *snip*(weiners) in Alqaida or how ever you spell it
We are talking about Virtual Terrorists that are ruining the pleasure of Eve Online
And to clarify it: No pirates in-game are not terrorists thought some of them are just sniping gankers and canŠt do a decent 1 Vs 1 fight
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Sarah Ponytails
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:09:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sarah Ponytails on 18/10/2005 23:08:38
freak
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:10:00 -
[18]
dude you need help, you do realise its a game, dont you??
Free Websites |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Bloodspire on 18/10/2005 23:14:24
Originally by: Sarah Ponytails
Edited by: Sarah Ponytails on 18/10/2005 23:08:38
freak
Yea could a moderator please remind this person about personal attacks
and by the notion...please check if he is a isk seller...they usually get [p]issed off by these types of threads
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:12:00 -
[20]
christ, less of the your hurting my eyes
Free Websites |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lord Aradon
dude you need help, you do realise its a game, dont you??
What is with the personal attacks
Did I pod you in-game or something
It is a game yes, did you really need an answer to that question
I like having fun in an un-tainted world where we all have the same odds of survival
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Yith Solarius
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Bloodspire
It was stated: Economical Terrorist
It has been changed
Terrorist is someone who destroys peoples assets, ruins the economy and so forth...
We are not talking about the [f]uckers in Alqaida or how ever you spell it
We are talking about Virtual Terrorists that are ruining the pleasure of Eve Online
And to clarify it: No pirates in-game are not terrorists thought some of them are just sniping gankers and canŠt do a decent 1 Vs 1 fight
1) Wrong terrorism is the act of causing terror, through bloodshead, and destruction, the act of selling something illigal over the internet is fraud, still illigal but very different.
2) don't attempt to bypass the profanity filters, it'll only get your thread locked then no one will see your point of veiw
3) wtf have pirates sniping at gates got to do with this?
Todays Idea: Security Ratings |
Element Rachel
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:15:00 -
[23]
Russia Soviet in.
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:15:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 18/10/2005 23:17:07
noooo your campaigning as tho lives depend on the stability of a virtual economy, pop a chill pill, kick back, relax and smell the sweet aroma 
Originally by: Yith Solarius
3) wtf have pirates sniping at gates got to do with this?
thats it, he just got pwnd!!! and ill bet he bought his shiny ride off ebay with the rent money and now he has to go live with his ma and so thought hed spread his pain with us
*group hug*
Free Websites |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Yith Solarius
1) Wrong terrorism is the act of causing terror, through bloodshead, and destruction, the act of selling something illigal over the internet is fraud, still illigal but very different.
2) don't attempt to bypass the profanity filters, it'll only get your thread locked then no one will see your point of veiw
3) wtf have pirates sniping at gates got to do with this?
Can you please see the whole picture
I used the term Terrorist because it has all these features yours and mine in the name
There is no right or wrong way to descripe terrorism
Though using the word terrorism was maybe over the top
It has been changed so get over it
Stay on the subject at hand, isk,character and items being sold on auction websites
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Sarah Ponytails
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:19:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Sarah Ponytails on 18/10/2005 23:20:38
Originally by: Bloodspire
Edited by: Bloodspire on 18/10/2005 23:14:24
Originally by: Sarah Ponytails
Edited by: Sarah Ponytails on 18/10/2005 23:08:38
freak
Yea could a moderator please remind this person about personal attacks
and by the notion...please check if he is a isk seller...they usually get [p]issed off by these types of threads
Could a moderator please remind this person about using profanity.
I think you'll find most people are getting a little annoyed, but not by the thread, more-so your way of laying out a sentance.
P.S
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Ilea Celentay
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:22:00 -
[27]
First point, even before I read what you have put... Posting asbout Ebay doesnt stop the problem, as a Mod once said, it really make it worse - as those that just join think they can get away with it, while before you 'ad' thread, would not have thought about it... Does that make sence.... my head hurts 
----
"We have big plans. Secret plans, but BIG!"
Annwn: "Women give you straight answers as long as you can read between the lines, under the bed and through the mirror to get t |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 18/10/2005 23:17:07
thats it, he just got pwnd!!! and ill bet he bought his shiny ride off ebay with the rent money and now he has to go live with his ma and so thought hed spread his pain with us
*group hug*
Are you refferring to me
If so grow up this is a serious discussion
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:26:00 -
[29]
Ohh yes also stop complaining about the
Just get a better monitor or tweak your screen settings alittle...
I use an 19" Acer Gaming Enhanced Edition Monitor works great for my eyes 
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Edited by: Bloodspire on 18/10/2005 23:14:24
Originally by: Sarah Ponytails
Edited by: Sarah Ponytails on 18/10/2005 23:08:38
freak
Yea could a moderator please remind this person about personal attacks
and by the notion...please check if he is a isk seller...they usually get [p]issed off by these types of threads
Could a moderator please remind this person about bypassing the profanity filter.
And stop using so many stupid smilies.
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 18/10/2005 23:17:07
thats it, he just got pwnd!!! and ill bet he bought his shiny ride off ebay with the rent money and now he has to go live with his ma and so thought hed spread his pain with us
*group hug*
Are you refferring to me
If so grow up this is a serious discussion
Yes i was referring to you, yes i am grown up, tbh i think i get better discussions out of my 4 year old daughter, hell my 7month old daughter gives better discussion, oh and yes i am trying my best to liven up this boring thread and throw it off-topic as much as i can, oh and a lock would come in handy bout now as its really advertising for the bad guys
Free Websites |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:30:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Bloodspire
So far some have agreed but some do not understand how serious this is
No matter if you can kill him easily it is a un-fair kill no matter what you do
There is nothing that can justify breaking the law
No laws are being broken. It's just a breach of contract, which entitles CCP to terminate the account; and that's what CCP do.
Selling your character/ships/blueprints for real life money is not a crime.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Could a moderator please remind this person about bypassing the profanity filter.
And stop using so many stupid smilies.
They did and [p]issed off is ok to use if you are describing emotions...if you are saying it to say that you are drunk then it is not ok....
*snip* did it myself for your very own pleasure lol
And stay on the subject of the thread!<<<<<just for you ; )
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:32:00 -
[34]
exactly, EULA -End User License Agreement, by selling ISK etc you break the agreement and leave your self open to banning, by selling on ebay you leave your ebay account open to closing, closing being the opperative word here as thats what this thread should be doing.
Free Websites |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:36:00 -
[35]
And for you all that have not been through law school...
A contract is binding by law and therefor it is subject to the laws that lie within...
You can be prosecuted for breaking the law you all know that so why are you posting the opposite?
ItŠs like telling a bank "no I donŠt have to pay my bills because they are all in computer programs and therefor they are virtual"
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:37:00 -
[36]
if its okay to use it because it portraying an emotiong then why use the brackets to bypass the filter? its there to keep these boards clean for the younger audience, i wouldnt wanting my child coming on these boards when there are people around like you effing and jeffing all the time, and oh yeah, youre breaking the forum rules 
Free Websites |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:39:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Bloodspire
And for you all that have not been through law school...
A contract is binding by law and therefor it is subject to the laws that lie within...
You can be prosecuted for breaking the law you all know that so why are you posting the opposite?
Don't try to make yourself look clever by posting gibberish like this. A contract is legally binding; *therefore*, when one party breaches the terms of it, it becomes void, and the other party is no longer bound.
You can NOT be prosecuted for breaking a contract.
Celt Corp - members of ISS |
Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:40:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 18/10/2005 23:41:13
Originally by: Bloodspire
And for you all that have not been through law school...
A contract is binding by law and therefor it is subject to the laws that lie within...
You can be prosecuted for breaking the law you all know that so why are you posting the opposite?
ItŠs like telling a bank "no I donŠt have to pay my bills because they are all in computer programs and therefor they are virtual"
Hoho, you really no lots dont you, the EULA is nothing to do with "law" it is to do with the people the contract is between, and no if i tell my bank that i aint paying my bills there is little they can do, other than spend around a year or so sending automated messages about arrears and doorstep collections and call me over and over again.
If it was that easy then the world wouldnt be in so much personal debt, coz the creditors would just call the police when someone misses a payment.
Free Websites |
Hot Karl
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:44:00 -
[39]
I'm sorry to have to get unpleasant, but this guy really needs to be straightened out.
This is terrorism
This is disturbing, but not terrorism.
Do you understand the difference?
Just change the title, is it really so hard?
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hot Karl
I'm sorry to have to get unpleasant, but this guy really needs to be straightened out.
This is terrorism
This is disturbing, but not terrorism.
Do you understand the difference?
Just change the title, is it really so hard?
Safe
Free Websites |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:50:00 -
[41]
I donŠt believe what I am reading!
This is ridiculous!
Call a lawyer and ask if you can get prosecuted for breaking/breaching a contract!
Then say it canŠt be done!
What is a matter with you all?
I am trying to have a conversation about solutions for the matter at hand but instead all you nei sayers start flaming me!
If you donŠt like the topic just write "I donŠt agree"
DonŠt be personally attacking me!
These are my thoughts about the matter and those thoughts are mine to have...
I am looking for someone who gives a damn about gaming experience!
Not some nei sayers that donŠt even know the laws of life!
If you donŠt have something positive to say about the subject donŠt be venting off your grief here make your own thread!
Bloodspire
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Hot Karl
Just change the title, is it really so hard?
LetŠs get one thing straight pal!!!!!
I was there you damn flamer!!!
Were you there?
Did you loose some one you knew?
I did!!!!
So keep your opinions to yourself!!!
The title was changed already to Terror...that is not Terrorism!!!
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Hot Karl
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Posted - 2005.10.18 23:57:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Hot Karl on 19/10/2005 00:02:55
My personal experience is irrelevant Edit: Your experience isn'r relevant either. You are using hyperbole in order to illicit sympathy from your readers, and it's offensive.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:01:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/10/2005 00:04:01
Bloodspire, if you want to discuss RMT, let's use a sanity check.
RMT is perfectly legal. If is, however, against the EULA and (except in Korea, as a result of a recent legal descision) an game provider has every right to terminate service for RMT if they wish. They cannot sue you - their remedy (termination of service) is quite clearly laid out in the EULA which you have apparently failed to read.
While some people MIGHT exploit to get isk they sell, there is no proof of this in this situation. And don't post about exploits on the forums, if you suspect an exploit file a bug report about it.
Why is this "of course destroying the Eve economy"? Figures plz. It is a tiny problem in Eve compared to most games, due largely to the design. You yourself point out player skill is a huge factor - a nub with a high SP account is STILL a nub in Eve. And can lose it all, very easily.
People will want to use RMT services. This is human nature. The only way to mitigate against this is game design, where Eve is quite successful, unlike more "grindy-y" games like Wow.
(at this point, I also think it'd only be fair for Bloodspire's account to be checked for RMT)
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:02:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Hot Karl
My personal experience is irrelevant. You are using hyperbole in order to illicit sympathy from your readers, and it's offensive.
What is offensive is your lack of respect for others!
Sympathy has nothing to do with this thread...this is a harsh reality check for all the character,isk and items sellers that break the law by selling virtual items on ebay!
You have no right to link to terrorism acts...That is offensive and very un-human!
Be gone from my thread...
/mumbles about people who donŠt have respect for the dead..............
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/10/2005 00:02:12
Bloodspire, if you want to discuss RMT, let's use a sanity check.
RMT is perfectly legal. If is, however, against the EULA and (except in Korea, as a result of a recent legal descision) an game provider has every right to terminate service for RMT if they wish. They cannot sue you - their remedy (termination of service) is quite clearly laid out in the EULA which you have apparently failed to read.
While some people MIGHT exploit to get isk they sell, there is no proof of this in this situation. And don't post about exploits on the forums, if you suspect an exploit file a bug report about it.
Why is this "of course destroying the Eve economy"? Figures plz. It is a tiny problem in Eve compared to most games, due largely to the design. You yourself point out player skill is a huge factor - a nub with a high SP account is STILL a nub in Eve. And can lose it all, very easily.
People will want to use RMT services. This is human nature. The only way to mitigate against this is game design, where Eve is quite successful, unlike more "grindy-y" games like Wow.
That is why I made a plea in the end of the first post!
For the love of Eve...Are all of you on the wrong side of the law?
You are all coming up with ways how to beat the system...Why not come with a suggestion on how to improve it?
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Hot Karl
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:05:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Bloodspire
You have no right to link to terrorism acts...That is offensive and very un-human!
Be gone from my thread...
/mumbles about people who donŠt have respect for the dead..............
I didn't make the link, you did. I didn't show disrespect to the dead, you did. I didn't label something as terrorism when it clearly isn't, you did.
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:08:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 00:10:55
A web link you un-educated fool!!!
Stop posting on this thread!
And what is with the childish you did, I did part?
You obviously donŠt know how to read as I said donŠt be posting something that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread!!!
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Hot Karl
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:09:00 -
[49]
Now who's calling people names?
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/10/2005 00:10:15
Originally by: Bloodspire
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/10/2005 00:02:12
Bloodspire, if you want to discuss RMT, let's use a sanity check.
RMT is perfectly legal. If is, however, against the EULA and (except in Korea, as a result of a recent legal descision) an game provider has every right to terminate service for RMT if they wish. They cannot sue you - their remedy (termination of service) is quite clearly laid out in the EULA which you have apparently failed to read.
While some people MIGHT exploit to get isk they sell, there is no proof of this in this situation. And don't post about exploits on the forums, if you suspect an exploit file a bug report about it.
Why is this "of course destroying the Eve economy"? Figures plz. It is a tiny problem in Eve compared to most games, due largely to the design. You yourself point out player skill is a huge factor - a nub with a high SP account is STILL a nub in Eve. And can lose it all, very easily.
People will want to use RMT services. This is human nature. The only way to mitigate against this is game design, where Eve is quite successful, unlike more "grindy-y" games like Wow.
That is why I made a plea in the end of the first post!
For the love of Eve...Are all of you on the wrong side of the law?
You are all coming up with ways how to beat the system...Why not come with a suggestion on how to improve it?
Nope. I do not engage in RMT.
I'm not "comming up with ways to beat the system", I'm pointing out that you do not understand how the system works - you appear not to have even read the EULA, which quite clearly spells out how CCP responds to RMT.
I don't think any *major* action is necessary. Certainly, track and stop the organised companies involved in RMT, if they enter Eve. But the game design makes RMT fairly pointless in Eve compared to the vast majority of MMO's, as it stands.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
F'nog
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:17:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Call a lawyer and ask if you can get prosecuted for breaking/breaching a contract!
Then say it canŠt be done!
You can be prosecuted, i.e. sued, by the other party of the contract for breach of said contract. You CANNOT, however, be arrested for it, which is what you are claiming. No governmental force, i.e. "the law" cares about breaches of contract. It is purely and 100% a civil matter.
Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:20:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 00:21:16
We all know that the system does not work that is why this thread was started!
My plea was to the honest people in Eve to help get rid of the "bad seed"
Not to talk about where the system failed...It has fallen and we are here to pick it up!
EULA is a contract that we all agree upon once we enter the world of Eve...
And no matter what all you say...It is against the law to sell your in-game items,isk,characters for Real Money!
EULA=Law
EULA Contract= law binding
You break the law= you get prosecuted
Prosecuted= you get convicted
Convicted= you go to jail
Jail= you get a criminal record for virtual crimes
But CCP does not prosecute they only ban accounts and people...
Why you ask!
Because it costs too much too prosecute someone!
Edit because of post above....I never said you could get arressted!
only that you could be prosecuted! It is indeed only a Civil Court Case!
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 00:21:16
We all know that the system does not work that is why this thread was started!
My plea was to the honest people in Eve to help get rid of the "bad seed"
Not to talk about where the system failed...It has fallen and we are here to pick it up!
EULA is a contract that we all agree upon once we enter the world of Eve...
And no matter what all you say...It is against the law to sell your in-game items,isk,characters for Real Money!
EULA=Law
EULA Contract= law binding
You break the law= you get prosecuted
Prosecuted= you get convicted
Convicted= you go to jail
Jail= you get a criminal record for virtual crimes
But CCP does not prosecute they only ban accounts and people...
Why you ask!
Because it costs too much too prosecute someone!
Edit because of post above....I never said you could get arressted!
only that you could be prosecuted! It is indeed only a Civil Court Case!
It was laid out for you in a post by Maya.
Grasping the concept is clearly beyond you so its a pointless debate.
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Jorev
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:31:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jorev on 19/10/2005 00:31:37
Originally by: Bloodspire
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 00:21:16
And no matter what all you say...It is against the law to sell your in-game items,isk,characters for Real Money!
Yes, it doesn't matter what we all say, you will choose to remain ignorant and downright hysterical.
In fact, there really isn't law on this, until tested. So far it hasn't been tested. Why? Becaue corporate lawyers for gaming companies advised against it cause they don't think they can prevail. That why Sony, Blizzard, CCP will ban ppl but they will not file a civil case. Cause they will lose, just like the Korean case went.
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:36:00 -
[55]
There wouldn't be a market for ebay isk if there wasn't buyers. 
Anyway, I bet most of the ebay isk purchase comes from new players. Its a ***** to mine up for a cruiser in a batam.
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Berak FalCheran
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:53:00 -
[56]
Thanks for your terrible OP
It was pretty obnoxious
Anyway, I'm not sure how people selling isk 'ruins the economy'. It's simply moving money around, not adding or removing money to the economy, or removing it. If anything it just encourages the economy by probably increasing spending. (I can't imagine people buy isk to just look at their big wallet, lol)
So in summary:
against the EULA? yes
ruining the economy? no
something ebay could be sued over? I really doubt it
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
In short:
Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
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Qwant
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Posted - 2005.10.19 00:55:00 -
[57]
Okay double posts, obnoxious smiles and bypassing the profanity filter. Mods wth are you with the lock?
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Colonel O'Neill
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:14:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Did you know that you can buy 1 Billion isk for 264 dollars today?
Did you know that you can buy a 20 mill character for 1500 dollars today?
Did you know that you can buy BPOŠs from 1000 dollars to 5000 dollars today?
Who the hell would spend that kind of RL cash on a GAME?
// Colonel |
Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:31:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 01:32:31
Originally by: Qwant
Okay double posts, obnoxious smiles and bypassing the profanity filter. Mods wth are you with the lock?
"wth" is bypassing the profanity filter...
and keep the discussion on the topic of the thread!
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Expert Newbie
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:43:00 -
[60]
There are those who would be more than willing to spend that kind of money on a game.
The way I view it, it's something that happens and nobody can really stop it, so it's useless spending time and effort stopping it. If you think about it though, it's a transfer of items from one person to another. They are not illegally reproducing isk, one person gains items/money and the other person loses it. The money paid for it is also outside of the game and is in limited quantities; unlike earning isk in a game, real money isn't earned so easily. So in the end, the activity really doesn't hurt gameplay.
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Cranewhite Lighting
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:51:00 -
[61]
Lets get back on the topic for a second,
so what if someone spend $1500 on something that have the value of exactly of 0 in real life? Personally I would laugh and call him an idiot.
Remember that the ISK being sold had to come from in game somewhere, and there's not an unlimited supply of 30M sp chars. These things change ownership but does not really impact the game. In fact I'd feel better to have a 30M sp char in the hand of someone who don't know that he's doing then one who does.
and you can get back to all that legal stuff now. :)
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LegendHawk
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:52:00 -
[62]
CAME DOWN
Its ok,
we see this from every single MMO out there,
But, the fact is that this kind of price already
limits 99% of the people out there from buying them.
1% of these kind of people wouldn't hurt anyway,
ITS when 100 mil isk sales for 5 buck, thats when the problems starts!
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:55:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Edited by: Bloodspire on 19/10/2005 00:21:16
We all know that the system does not work that is why this thread was started!
My plea was to the honest people in Eve to help get rid of the "bad seed"
Not to talk about where the system failed...It has fallen and we are here to pick it up!
EULA is a contract that we all agree upon once we enter the world of Eve...
And no matter what all you say...It is against the law to sell your in-game items,isk,characters for Real Money!
EULA=Law
EULA Contract= law binding
You break the law= you get prosecuted
Prosecuted= you get convicted
Convicted= you go to jail
Jail= you get a criminal record for virtual crimes
But CCP does not prosecute they only ban accounts and people...
Why you ask!
Because it costs too much too prosecute someone!
Edit because of post above....I never said you could get arressted!
only that you could be prosecuted! It is indeed only a Civil Court Case!
Complete and total bollux (did I spell that correctly?). As you yourself state, it's a CIVIL matter. You cannot go to jail over a civil trial in any country that I know of. If you walk into a police station anywhere and say, "I broke this contract, arrest me," you will be laughed out of the station.
So, in point of fact:
EULA = contract
Contract = contractual obligation between two or more parties
You break the contract = other party terminates its relationship with you and possibly sues for losses/damages
Prosecuted = you may get convicted
You get convicted = you pay the amount the court deems worthy or make some other monetary recompense.
At no point will you ever see a jail cell unless you commit perjury or contempt of court during the course of the trial. Both of these are separate crimes independent of the original contract.
And, again, you yourself admit that this is a civil matter, not a criminal one.
Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon
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TK Loney
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Posted - 2005.10.19 01:56:00 -
[64]
Get a life!!
So X billion isk changes hands....
So some T2 widgets can now be made by someone else...
So some noob gets a spiffy account with all the toys....
I am not for ebay either, but chill out!
You must have been a lot of fun in the elementary school yard!
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Astasia Orian
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:03:00 -
[65]
Derisor, the other 0.0 whine guy, now this, where do we get these crazy people? Make your point (without obnoxious overuse of smilees), perhaps engage in a short rebuttal and move along.
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:05:00 -
[66]
Ironically, by discussing it the original poster is only encouraging it 
Where do all these stupid people come from?
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Joe
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:08:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Bloodspire
This of course is destroying the Eve Online Economy
Wow. Really? how? Does it generate or duplicate isk ingame? does it lower the value of trit somehow? For your post to have any merit at all you need to explain how these 'Economy Terrorists' are torrorising th economy.
Originally by: ebil genius
On a sidenote... Paypal transactions can be cancelled upto 30 days after a purchase is made, and ebay + Paypal dont cover 'electronic items' (virtual cash/characters/items). Feel free to purchase as much as you can, then cancell the paypal transaction once item transfers are complete, worse comes to worse, your alt ebay account will get some negative rating feedback. oh did i mention i don't like ebay? (they won't let me buy and import thermal imagers )
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DEVILSENIGMA
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:20:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Bloodspire
Did you know that you can buy 1 Billion isk for 264 dollars today?
Did you know that you can buy a 20 mill character for 1500 dollars today?
Did you know that you can buy BPOŠs from 1000 dollars to 5000 dollars today?
Hey bloodspire you forgot to put a instead of the ? in the above part of your first post 
PS: What Maya Rkell said is true. You dont get arrested and put in jail for breaking the EULA. You get sued. And I asked a lawyer too.
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Brian Burton
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:25:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Brian Burton on 19/10/2005 02:29:27
Bloodspire: there is a HUGE difference between discussing a topic and raving about it like a lunatic..you crossed that line awhile back, if you wish for people to take you seriously, then A: Don't flame/troll your own post b: Try to act more mature...the constant and unnecessary use of smilies is proof enough that you have a hard time doing so.
Now on to the topic at hand:
Ebay selling/buying of characters,items,ect. has been going on for as long as i have played MMO's.
Do i think it's a problem: for the most part yes i do, i find it annoying that a person can simply buy their way into a game without any work on their part whatsoever to create a character and deal with the hardships and rewards that come with it.
But i also know that these "Paper Doll Gamers" as i like to call them, never really stay with one game too long, usually going to what they believe to be greener pasturers, in the end all they do is spend more RL money than i did for the same thing i was able to get with dilligence and hard work, and i'm satisfied knowing that.
However Bloodspire if you think that nothing is being done to try and stop Ebayer's on EVE then your mistaken, it may not be going as fast as you want it to go....but that's something your going to have to get over.
With all your chest pounding on your soapbox you could be doing something to stop it yourself...but no, you scream and shout and rant about things in which you have no clue and expect other people to see things your way.
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:30:00 -
[70]
I have been called so many names just for this posting that the profanity filter would simply give up if I posted them all...
What is a matter with most of you?
This was not meant to be a flaming contest?
Meet me at the Fanfest and IŠll flame you but this is a thread about illegal isk,character and item sales...
No matter how much it costs to buy it, it is still illegal!
Most of your opinions make me sick!
They show no respect for the law what so ever!
They show no respect to me as you keep calling me all the names you can find(then I am also talking about the Eve-mails and e-mails I have been getting)
There is something seriously wrong with your morals!
In my opinion most of the ones flaming this thread have once or twice in theyŠre life time bought or sold isk,items or characters on an auction website...Why else would someone try to make it sound like a harmless thing?
There is no more to say! I have lost faith in the morals of most people!
IŠll be the first one to congratulate the nOOb that shoots you down with his newly aquired 30 mill Sp character and 10 Billion isk to buy even more Apocs and keep on shooting you until you feel the need to post a thread and say "there is a 30 mill Sp nOOb ganking me, CCP please help me"
To all a good night
And hopefully some higher being will bring Apocalypse upon us all...for the people of the world donŠt understand the difference between right and wrong even after all these millions of years in Evilution
Bloodspire
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Abdalion
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:36:00 -
[71]
Locked on request of the thread starter.
Click.
---
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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:37:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Bloodspire
And hopefully some higher being will bring Apocalypse upon us all...for the people of the world donŠt understand the difference between right and wrong even after all these millions of years in Evilution
Bloodspire
Lol, because people buy and sell isk on Ebay, the apocalypse will come?
Are you out or on your way to a mental facility?
________________________________________________
The narrow minded and selfish people posting on EO forums made me bitter |
Joe
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:39:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Joe
Originally by: Bloodspire
This of course is destroying the Eve Online Economy
Wow. Really? how? Does it generate or duplicate isk ingame? does it lower the value of trit somehow? For your post to have any merit at all you need to explain how these 'Economy Terrorists' are torrorising th economy.
You Still haven't explained this, without explanation, your post simply looks like a whine, add your reasons to why its economic terrorism, and maybe people will take you more seriously.
Originally by: ebil genius
On a sidenote... Paypal transactions can be cancelled upto 30 days after a purchase is made, and ebay + Paypal dont cover 'electronic items' (virtual cash/characters/items). Feel free to purchase as much as you can, then cancell the paypal transaction once item transfers are complete, worse comes to worse, your alt ebay account will get some negative rating feedback. oh did i mention i don't like ebay? (they won't let me buy and import thermal imagers)
The only way to discourage Ebay sellers is to make it to much of a risk for them to sell in the first place.
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Bloodspire
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Posted - 2005.10.19 02:43:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Brian Burton
With all your chest pounding on your soapbox you could be doing something to stop it yourself...but no, you scream and shout and rant about things in which you have no clue and expect other people to see things your way.
So you think I am doing nothing to stop it?
What do you think I am trying to do?
This is just the first step!
I am sick of you people trying to undermine others!
Do this, do that...donŠt say that, say this...
Do you really think you can use people as puppets?
Puppet show where you talk for the puppet!
And why do you judge one mans maturity by the smileys he uses?
Maturity has nothing to do with smileys or choice of words!
ItŠs my right to voice my thoughts!
You know that when you are right people start attacking you with sentences and words like: Maturity and that they admit that the laws are meant to be broken/bended...Just because it is a game, it does not mean gamers donŠt have to abide by the laws....
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