| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Hippey
   |
Posted - 2005.10.21 17:38:00 -
[1]
Yeah that's right. The big advantage of projectiles (no cap usage) isn't really true. Medium projectiles use 1 cap per shot and large use 3.
The problem here is two fold
1) autocannons (ac) and artillery (arty) both use the same cap yet the ac's fire much much faster thus suck much more cap. there also is no difference in cap usage between the smallest (cheapest/weakest) autocannons and the biggest arty. They still all only use 1 cap. (medium size anyway)
On a vaga, with 5 dual 425's, with constant fire, I'm down to 80-85% cap. That's 20% of my cap gone on projectiles which are supposed to use no cap. That's 20% less I have for shield boosting or hell, 20% less for anything. If I were to switch to the Dual 180's I still would have same cap usage even though it's a weaker gun.
2) Minmatar ships have the crappiest cap of all 4 races, bar none. With the new changes making combat longer, this increased and longer cap drain effect will be even more pronounced and even more of a pain in the ass.
So, CCP, you need to remove all cap use on projectiles. It just makes no sense for AC's and arties to use the same cap and have the ACs suck a ship dry.
At the VERY least, and this really IMO would be the minimum, the medium ac's should be 0.1 cap per shot instead of 1 and large ac's should be 0.3 instead of 3
-------------------------------------------
If you do nothing to stop slavery, you do everything to support it!
|
Kuningatar
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 17:40:00 -
[2]
/signed
|
CptEagle
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 17:48:00 -
[3]
Yea and lasers are suppose to use loads of cap, but in the meantime hybrids eat more cap, and blaster cap usage is insane. 
|
danneh
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 17:57:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: CptEagle
Yea and lasers are suppose to use loads of cap, but in the meantime hybrids eat more cap, and blaster cap usage is insane.
Dont be an idiot, the only reason lasers take less cap is because every single Amarrian ship has a bonus to cap use on lasers.
Mega Pulse I. 40 cap usage per shot.
Neutron Cannon I. 26 cap usage per shot.
So please buy a clue before posting bull**** again.
Thanks.
___________________ |
Jon Hawkes
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 18:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: CptEagle
Yea and lasers are suppose to use loads of cap, but in the meantime hybrids eat more cap, and blaster cap usage is insane.
Agreed. I've moved over to fitting Pulse Lasers to my Ferox in place of Blasters due to their capacitor usage and poor tracking.
|
without
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 21:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: danneh
Originally by: CptEagle
Yea and lasers are suppose to use loads of cap, but in the meantime hybrids eat more cap, and blaster cap usage is insane.
Dont be an idiot, the only reason lasers take less cap is because every single Amarrian ship has a bonus to cap use on lasers.
Mega Pulse I. 40 cap usage per shot.
Neutron Cannon I. 26 cap usage per shot.
So please buy a clue before posting bull**** again.
Thanks.
and thats why lasers are more powerfull and better tracking off the boat
consider this: mega with 425RAILS with gank fitting needs to use 4 cap rechargers in all its mid slots to just barly sustain its cap at 30-40% with max skills i should add
and ur complaining about 1 cap per shot? rofl
|
Meridius
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 21:23:00 -
[7]
Agreed, projectiles should use no cap period. Hybrids really need a lowering in cap use as well...
________________________________________________________
|
Randay
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 21:27:00 -
[8]
Projectiles also need to have thier tracking tripled, thier damage multipliers doubled, and thier optimal ranges increased by 9000%.
-------------------------------------------
"Det hõr kan betyda krig!" |
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 21:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Randay
Projectiles also need to have thier tracking tripled, thier damage multipliers doubled, and thier optimal ranges increased by 9000%.
---------------------------------------------
Signature filesize exceeded. Maximum sig size is 400*120 and 24000 bytes - Teblin - aww come on now :(
|
ELECTR0FREAK
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 23:07:00 -
[10]
Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 21/10/2005 23:11:00
Why are you complaining about only a couple cap? Its not enough to make any difference to your ship. PVP is all about managing your cap. If you could just run your cap dry and keep your guns firing it removes a vital part of PVP that actually takes any skill on the part of the pilot. Missiles get away with this only because missile ships tend to have shield systems and worse capacitors that require the user to monitor his shield boosts and try to keep his capacitor hovering in the 30% range to optimize his power output (otherwise any armor tanker will easily beat him).
And if you want to go into roleplay, the reason projectiles use power is not to actually fire them (I believe game lore says thats done through a small nuclear reaction), but to run cooling systems to keep them from overheating and turning into slag during sustained fire.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
ParMizaN
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 23:12:00 -
[11]
Being able to shoot with 0 cap is one of the unique advantages of missiles :|
very little cap is taken up by firing projectiles, there is no real need t change it.
Killing the rich and giving to me |
Arti K
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 23:14:00 -
[12]
Word on the street is the vacuum of space just might barely be cold enough to cool the gun barrels 
Graph of why price controls are bad
|
Profess0r Mansechs0r
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 23:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: ParMizaN
Being able to shoot with 0 cap is one of the unique advantages of missiles :|
very little cap is taken up by firing projectiles, there is no real need t change it.
no, proj are supposed to use no cap, which is to balance out the fact that they do crap dps and minny ships have the worst cap. Small proj use no cap as it is.
Private lessons? |
Randay
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 23:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
Originally by: Randay
Projectiles also need to have thier tracking tripled, thier damage multipliers doubled, and thier optimal ranges increased by 9000%.
Im sorry after reading more facts about projectile guns, I see that I was clearly mistaken.
Projectiles need to hit 100% just like missiles, use 0 cap to fire, not require lock like FoF missiles, have thier damage multipliers increased by a factor of 1000 and minmatar ships need to have thier cap doubled. kthxbye.
-------------------------------------------
"Det hõr kan betyda krig!" |
Chode Rizoum
|
Posted - 2005.10.21 23:42:00 -
[15]
i guuy a
Teddycorp signature... By myal terego
www.evepirates.com/ |
Sobeseki Pawi
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 00:00:00 -
[16]
Controlled Bursts?
~Captain Cutie, HFS Iron Fist
Biomass fears me.
Sovereignty 2.0 |
LWMaverick
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 00:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Randay
Projectiles also need to have thier tracking tripled, thier damage multipliers doubled, and thier optimal ranges increased by 9000%.
You really think 9000% is enough?.. nah... triple that
And on they other side, tach's should have a pg/cap decrease so they can fit on my retribution... aye?
/Mav
If you want peace prepare for war ! |
Luc Boye
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 00:15:00 -
[18]
lol @ this thread 
|
Joshua Foiritain
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 00:24:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 22/10/2005 00:24:59
No Cap usage would make Projectile weapons quite uber, It would allow shooting even when being nosfed to death...
------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Rivek
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 00:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 21/10/2005 23:11:00
PVP is all about managing your cap.
Your funny. That hasn't been true for over a year anyway.
See your name in lights at TunDraGon.com |
Hippey
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 00:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ParMizaN
Being able to shoot with 0 cap is one of the unique advantages of missiles :|
very little cap is taken up by firing projectiles, there is no real need t change it.
Please read my post again. AC = mega cap drain.
And you know what, being able to fire projectile while nossed SHOULD be allowed because the projectiles aren't supposed to need cap for guns. A frigate with small projectiles can keep firing while completely nossed and always at 0 cap. So why shouldn't a cruiser and battleship be able to do the same?
Projectiles are the weakest of the 3. Their only advantage (no cap) is false for 2/3 size of the guns. This is WRONG!
-------------------------------------------
If you do nothing to stop slavery, you do everything to support it!
|
St Dragon
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 01:23:00 -
[22]
Projestiles use cap to activate the nuclear trigger i doesant just happen on its own.
Also it takes cap to reload a gun [when i say reload i mean when you make a shot the next bullet is loaded into the firing chamber this needs power].
|
Shadow Vice
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 01:37:00 -
[23]
dont forget that projectiles can do any dmg type as well i would call that an advantage
|
Trelennen
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 02:14:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Trelennen on 22/10/2005 02:15:26
Originally by: Shadow Vice
dont forget that projectiles can do any dmg type as well i would call that an advantage
But they do way less DPS than others, and have less tracking. And minnie ships have much less cap than other ships (because projectiles *don't use cap*, which is far from true with med/heavy ACs), have less HP than other ships and most of the time can't really tank anyway (fewer HP, less med+lows, not enough cap).
Heavy Beam II use 21.67/6=3.61 cap/s
Heavy Pulse II use 13.33/5.25=2.54 cap/s
250mm Rail II use 10/6.375=1.57 cap/s
Heavy Neutron II use 8.67/5.35=1.65 cap/s
720 II use 1/15.25=0.066 cap/s
425 II use 1/3.75=0.27 cap/s
That means projectiles are the only weapons to use more cap at close range than at long range. (Not counting the fact that AC are the most ammo consumming weapon too btw, and that minnies have more high slots to compensate a little the low DoT of their weapons, and have a really crappy cap because "their weapons don't use cap", which is not really true).
So yeah, they don't use that much cap, I agree. But it's said they don't use cap, and everybody is saying that in every discution about minnies, whereas it's false. If not making projectiles use no cap as they are said to, at least ACs should use less cap than artys, like blasters use less than rails and pulses use less than beams. Why proj are the only weapon to use more cap at close range (as well as way more ammos) than at long range?
PS: and for other turrets, using smaller turrets gives less cap usage, but with projectiles, if you downgrade to small turrets, eg. 220 AC, or even dual 180, you end up consuming more cap (and more ammos again ;)).
220 II use 1/3.375 = 0.30 cap/s
dual 180 II use 1/3 = 0.33 cap/s
PPS: oh, and missiles can do the 4 types of damage too, but can fully exploit a weakness of the opponent by doing only one kind of damage, don't use cap AT ALL, and missiles ships have better cap than minnie ships - who are for lots of them supposed to shield tank too)
Quote:
dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
|
Hllaxiu
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 02:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Arti K
Word on the street is the vacuum of space just might barely be cold enough to cool the gun barrels
Probably not. You can't dissipate a large gun's worth of heat into a couple stray hydrogen particles (there is essentially no such thing as a perfect vacuum).
You're excused on thermodynamics though for knowing economics. 
|
Sentani
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 02:59:00 -
[26]
it takes power to load the ammo... a 1400mm round dosnt magicly float into the barrel..
and ACs need to be loaded more often then a 1400mm...
simple logic 
/Sent |
Kishti
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 03:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Arti K
Word on the street is the vacuum of space just might barely be cold enough to cool the gun barrels
The problem here is the vacuum part. The 3 types of heat transfer are conduction, convection, and radiation. Convection is the type of heat transfer that happens due to air passing over an object. In space, there would be no convection. Conduction is what happens when 2 objects are touching. Therefore, heat could pass from your guns to anything touching them. How would these other objects shed the heat thus obtained? The third type of heat transfer is radiation, which is the least efficient form of heat transfer. In a vacuum, relying on radiation for cooling guns would be incredibly ineffieient. Most likely the guns would use some sort of multi-stage coolant system designed to capture and recycle the heat as some sort of usable energy.
|
Ras Blumin
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 03:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hippey
On a vaga, with 5 dual 425's, with constant fire, I'm down to 80-85% cap. That's 20% of my cap gone on projectiles which are supposed to use no cap. That's 20% less I have for shield boosting or hell, 20% less for anything. If I were to switch to the Dual 180's I still would have same cap usage even though it's a weaker gun.
Actually, d180's will use more cap since the cap use pr shot is the same, but the rof is higher (or lower?).
p - l - u - r |
DrakeZakharov
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 03:16:00 -
[29]
ACs do not give 'mega cap drain' ...
3 cap per shot ? If you can't sustain that and a tank then you are doing something drastically wrong with your set-up. Gallente don't get cap bonuses like the Ammar, but we still do fine with our close range uber-death set-ups.
Just train controlled bursts .. that'll cut the cap use from basically nothing to even closer to nothing. Oh and remember that the cap use isn't meant to be the advantage of projectiles ... its the ability to use all damage types and the fearsome burst damage they can kick out.
|
Randay
|
Posted - 2005.10.22 03:53:00 -
[30]
this thread needs to be locked before more people (idiots?) start to actually believe that 1 cap is too much.
-------------------------------------------
"Det hõr kan betyda krig!" |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |