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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
135
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Posted - 2013.05.23 01:34:00 -
[181] - Quote
ITT: OP suffers the debilitating effects of Toxic Shock Syndrome. You got to change that thing out regular, OP. |
Amielle Ozran
Cult of War University
Cult of War
3
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Posted - 2013.05.23 02:12:00 -
[182] - Quote
OP:
You do realize that that big ships have trouble hitting small ships right
like here u are zipping around in a dinky frigate at a jillion miles an hour blappin away and sure it's not hitting hard but they cant even touch you because that's just how much faster you're going. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
2508
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Posted - 2013.05.23 02:33:00 -
[183] - Quote
Velator vs Tornado
Granted... the Velator was piloted by a veteran player... but the Tornado pilot wasn't a [complete] scrub either. The fact that THIS is possible means that a newbie with enough experience (player-wise... not SP-wise) can pull off something amazing (the guy pulled off the same thing against an Oracle later on).
Also... copy pasting my standard Skillpoint rant:
- All skills cap at level 5. No matter how many years you have played the game, you cannot exceed that limit. And lower level skills (ex. [Racial] Frigate) are very quick to train relative to more advanced skills.
- (*this is the important one*) Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time.
Ex1: Someone you are facing has about 20 million SP, but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related? He/she could be a HUGE industrial player with limited combat skills.
Ex2: A veteran player has just trained up the skill Large Hybrid Turret to level 5. That skill in no way affects the skill Small Hybrid Turret and thus the veteran will be no better or worse than before at the frigate level.
- Getting a skill from level 4 to level 5 only adds on an extra 2% here, 5% there (exceptions apply). If you simply train up all the skills within a specialty to level 4 (which takes a fraction of the amount of time it takes to get those skills to level 5), you will find yourself flying at about 80 to 90% of the effectiveness of a multi-year veteran with those same skills in that specific specialty at level 5.
- Getting a skill to level 5 is supposed to be a painful train. Many players (yes, even veteran ones) opt to avoid doing it and instead train up other skills to level 4 (again, because it's faster).
- Ships and weapons have been balanced against one another.
Ex: A battleship can potentially instapop a frigate... but the frigate can fly very fast, making it difficult for the battleship's weapons to track, especially at very close range... then again, the battleship can deploy drones to deal with the frigate... and the frigate can shoot the drones down... however the battleship might have a Large Energy Neutralizer fitted to nuke the frigate's capacitor power every 24 second... in which case the frigate could use a Small Nosferatu that sucks out capacitor from the battleship every 3 seconds... etc. etc.
- High tech equipment (ex. T2, Faction, Officer, etc) will not give a player "I WIN" abilities. It simply gives a player a linear edge at an exponentially higher cost.
Ex: A group of two or three T1-fit frigates that cost about 500 thousand to 1 million ISK CAN kill a faction frigate worth about 50 to 100 million ISK... provided they are using the right mods in the right configuration and know what they are doing.
tl;dr...
- more SP is not indicative of a pilot's ability. It just means that the pilot has more options in what he/she can do.
- once you have your "universal" core and support skills at maximum the gap between you and an older player begins to narrow quite significantly.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4169
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Posted - 2013.05.23 02:40:00 -
[184] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:bbb2020 wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:Leper ofBacon wrote:When your character gets to that age and you are still getting ganked you will realise how bad you are.
The real decider is numbers. Numbers = more SP = win. Not an exception. And I were not the gankee, I were the ganker. It's just eve has no PvP beyond SPvsSP formula is too annoying. Also, when I get that age, everyone would still get their SP, and my relative age would be still as low as it is now. Eve "PvP" is locked out forever for newer accounts. First: Nice trolling. Still, this (the highlighted part) is where you're wrong as nobody can train a skill higher than lv5. If a 5 year old player has trained Minmatar frigate to lv5 and you do the same, you are both (SP wice) eaqually good at flying that ship. Granted, he will have have a lot of other skills that help him fit his ship better but he can still only train those skills to lv5, so eventually you will catch up. In the mean time, you might still be able to beat him as pvp in Eve has little to do with SP. It has all to do with knowledge. The Knowledge of how to pvp in Eve style. This mean knowing how to use the tool (ship) you have at your disposal to hit your opponent at his weakest point. Knowing about fall off, transversal, kitting and a bunch of other stuff. Knowing when to fight and when to run and most importent - how to manually pilot your ship in relation to your apponent. Think most players that come to the forums and complain about, not being able to pilot the ships personally (from the bridge) and want Eve to be a game where you do "dogfighting" type of pvp, has the same hole in their knowledge about what makes Eve pvp tick. Sure thing, he might have better skills than you and have better modules on his ship but rest assure, that do NOT mean he knows how to fit his new ship or how to use it in a pvp situation. Don't give up. Try and try again and everytime - learn from your experience. Learning in a personal matter (not SP wice) is what makes a good Eve player. That is obviously wrong, since SP allows better ships for enough years to call them EVER. Knowing when to fight and when to run is very simple. Compare SP. I know about falloff, traversal, kiting, and a bunch of other stuff. It doesn't help against severe SP deficit, which was proven over, and over, and over. The best you can do with all that stuff is to escape the higher SP opponent, and that is hardly a win, because he has to do nothing and you got to be universally better prepared to simply avoid loss.
Interesting, so what constitutes a "better ship"?
Is a battleship better than a frigate? According to you yes, as it takes more skill points to fly it.
And yet frigates kill BS all the time... solo. It's particularly fun in a Stealth Bomber, but even a damage oriented T1 frigate will do.
Is a HAC better than it's T1 counter part? Again, according to you, absolutely.
And yet we see the HAC lose in these situations on a regular basis, often to pilots that have less skill points (but superior personal skills).
There are many corporations in EvE that specialize in taking vastly inferior numbers (both in terms of number of participants and in terms of total number of skill points involved on either side) against much larger forces and ripping them to shreds... often while flying what are considered "inferior" ships.
You have somehow managed to claim knowledge of basic EvE combat mechanics, and in the same post make it painfully apparent that you don't have the personal skills to use them to your advantage.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
776
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Posted - 2013.05.23 02:41:00 -
[185] - Quote
Troll thread, obvious attempt to incite flame-war.
Come on, OP, did you even try?
3/10.
Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
5146
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 02:54:00 -
[186] - Quote
Biomass seems to be your only option, OP.
-áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Ernok en Brauhn
MotsuFleet Logistics
6
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Posted - 2013.05.23 03:02:00 -
[187] - Quote
OP, if it pisses you off so bad, uninstall EvE and go back to WoWland.
in the meantime.....just go away
thank you
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dark heartt
I Own Four Sheep
Nyratic
309
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Posted - 2013.05.23 03:37:00 -
[188] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:It saddens me that I wasted so much time on a game which pretends to be a PvP game, while having no PvP side whatsoever.
Eve "PvP" formula is simple as wood - more SP wins. You have an account created later than 2007-2008? Automatic defeat at every attempt of pvping.
So, my question is, when eve is getting PvP which depends on something other than pure blob of bigger SP?
What? I've seen characters made in 2011 winning solo in RvB. Your argument is yet another stealth let me buy SP for plex.
Bienator II:
"You can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."
I play in highsec. |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
594
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Posted - 2013.05.23 03:55:00 -
[189] - Quote
Wow, just wow.
It seems like some players supposition is that SP doesn't mean that much. So false.
It is based on the false assumption that you are going against a bad. However two players of equal RL combat skill meet, one with 20 Mill combat SP and one with 1 Mill combat focused SP, who wins? Especially when those SP mean he has double the tank and four times the dps.
The training durations make EvE very unique for PvP games. Yes I can fully train into ONE ship and be at all 5's for all systems in tens to hundred's of days. While in other PvP games I can be proficient at ALL skills in tens of days, if that.
To the guy saying people don't train to 5 in skills, what are you smokin'? Some equipment or ships cannot be flown without 5's.
Like any game you can be successful in EvE right away. Unlike other games you have to rely on people being really, really bad to do so. Meanwhile there will be many good players with much more SP ready to hand you your ass while you spend years skilling up.
This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1648
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 04:09:00 -
[190] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:It saddens me that I wasted so much time on a game which pretends to be a PvP game, while having no PvP side whatsoever.
Eve "PvP" formula is simple as wood - more SP wins. You have an account created later than 2007-2008? Automatic defeat at every attempt of pvping.
So, my question is, when eve is getting PvP which depends on something other than pure blob of bigger SP?
Stop being bad at Eve. I have newbies contributing to my fleet daily, and some of them in roles that have been downright pivotal to our success. Just because you are utter garbage doesn't mean everyone is.
Oh and my 2010 character has dumpstered many an eve-vet. |
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Cannibal Kane
My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse
1795
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Posted - 2013.05.23 04:27:00 -
[191] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:It saddens me that I wasted so much time on a game which pretends to be a PvP game, while having no PvP side whatsoever.
Eve "PvP" formula is simple as wood - more SP wins. You have an account created later than 2007-2008? Automatic defeat at every attempt of pvping.
So, my question is, when eve is getting PvP which depends on something other than pure blob of bigger SP?
If the "more SP, Older Player" arguiment was true.
i would have a alot more losses. Don't be a moron.
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
425
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Posted - 2013.05.23 04:29:00 -
[192] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:It saddens me that I wasted so much time on a game which pretends to be a PvP game, while having no PvP side whatsoever.
Eve "PvP" formula is simple as wood - more SP wins. You have an account created later than 2007-2008? Automatic defeat at every attempt of pvping.
So, my question is, when eve is getting PvP which depends on something other than pure blob of bigger SP?
You must be new to EVE. Welcome and have fun with this game.
_______________________________________
Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime. |
Arcelian
House of Praetor
R O G U E
15
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Posted - 2013.05.23 04:37:00 -
[193] - Quote
-5/10
How did this idiotic post not get deleted for trolling? |
Charles Barkley II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.23 04:37:00 -
[194] - Quote
IF YOU CAN'T SLAM WITH THE BEST THEN JAM WITH THE REST
If you can't Slam with the best, then Jam with the rest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWKQiZVBtu4 |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1649
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 05:00:00 -
[195] - Quote
Charles Barkley II wrote:IF YOU CAN'T SLAM WITH THE BEST THEN JAM WITH THE REST
SHUT UP AND JAM GAIDEN |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
702
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Posted - 2013.05.23 05:45:00 -
[196] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:It has nothing to do with SP, but rather who has the most and best ships.
That and FC's who aren't incompetent. Need SP for best ships. More pilots = more SP = naturally, win. Well if we are talking about collective numbers then yeah, but what the OP was saying is that pilots with the most SP win all the time. 100 day old characters in frigs can beat a 5 year old character in a battleship. Bring enough of them to outmass his SP, and sure, why not? Eugene Kerner wrote:You are just very VERY bad in this game. This is all. Of course I am. No SP = bad. It's just hard to do anything about it.
Man you got more than 50 mill...thats a lot more than I do.
"Also, your boobs  " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
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Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
7959
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:07:00 -
[197] - Quote
The only engagement where combat-relevant SP is the chief determinant of the outcome is where you have a 1v1 in identically fit ships of the same type, without implants or boosters and using the exact same ammo. Oh, and both ships have to use the same ammo and may not move.
Since this sort of engagement doesn't happen, you're wrong
mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Alexila Quant
Strategic Acquisitions Group
Tactical Research Lab
61
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Posted - 2013.05.23 06:18:00 -
[198] - Quote
It appears I'm late to the QQ party. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
601
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:32:00 -
[199] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:You're wrong. No. Yes you are, more SP != win in PvP, it = more choice of ships to PvP in, for example player x has 100 million SP spread all over the place but only 5 million in frigates, player Y has only 5 million SP in frigates , if they're both in identical ships with identical fits then there is a 50/50 chance that player Y can beat player X, because 95 million of player Xs SP are completely irrelevant to the ship he's flying. HTFU More SP = better ships = win. They won't be in identical ships. Never.
right, because battleships can kill frigates so easily, assuming the frigate is ebing piloted by somoene half-competent.
but your right, if your figthing someone who put the EFFORT and TIME into skilling all of the appropriate items to competently fly a ship, then yes, he will and SHOULD win, the fact being, if you prepare yourself with ships fitted appropriately for the targets you want to engage, you cna and usually WILL win.
that means if your in a frigate, and want to kill cruisers, you dont fit for "lawl DPS" you fit for speed, so you can outmaneuver there guns and :pop: there goes the ship fo someone with a few million SP more than you. of couse, if they planned on ebing attacked by frigates and fitted 2 webs or something, then that is a legitamate counter to your setup.
More SP, does not mean more power, it means you have a wider variety of scenarios you are capable of fitting a ship for, i could have MILLIONS of SP in ECM but only some in gunnery, but if i'm flying in a scenario without ECM, i may as well not even bother shooting back against someone who chose to put points into guns.
in toher words, EVE isnt about numbers and which is higher (barring blob warfare in null), its about the most complicated game of rock-paper-scissors-dynamite-hacksaw-master chief-ninja you have ever played. |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
325
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Posted - 2013.05.23 06:33:00 -
[200] - Quote
One time I did a pvp |
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Garresh
Team Chicken and Waffles
207
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Posted - 2013.05.23 06:36:00 -
[201] - Quote
Actually to the guy who said a noob in an AF would lose to a battle cruiser, I disagree. If he's nos'd/cap boosted with a TD he can win pretty easily. There are some afs that are just great at fighting above their class. Not to say it wouldn't be difficult, but its totally doable. When some irl friends were a week old we did a 3 man rifter roam. Almost dropped a solo cane. We actually would have but then 2 pirate tengus unrelated to our target dropped in.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
9520
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Posted - 2013.05.23 06:38:00 -
[202] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:It saddens me that I wasted so much time on a game which pretends to be a PvP game, while having no PvP side whatsoever.
Eve "PvP" formula is simple as wood - more SP wins. You have an account created later than 2007-2008? Automatic defeat at every attempt of pvping.
So, my question is, when eve is getting PvP which depends on something other than pure blob of bigger SP?
This is a popular myth cherished by people who are terrible at PvP - that if they just wait long enough, they'll magically become good.
1 Kings 12:11
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Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
3017
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Posted - 2013.05.23 07:04:00 -
[203] - Quote
posting in a stealth "I'm leaving EVE, rageragerage madmadmad" thread. |
Ramona McCandless
Standards and Practices
Petition Blizzard
12
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Posted - 2013.05.23 07:24:00 -
[204] - Quote
I have almost no skill points and can barely fly anything.
I have already amassed several hundred million Isk from "PvP"
I guess it all falls down to what your chosen battlefield is.
"You designed these rules to trick me and it's not fair! I don't have anything left and might as well quit now..."-á-á-Authorized Pixel Distributor
Tell The Others |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
1204
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Posted - 2013.05.23 07:26:00 -
[205] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:It saddens me that I wasted so much time on a game which pretends to be a PvP game, while having no PvP side whatsoever.
Eve "PvP" formula is simple as wood - more SP wins. You have an account created later than 2007-2008? Automatic defeat at every attempt of pvping.
So, my question is, when eve is getting PvP which depends on something other than pure blob of bigger SP?
actually you are so wrong in your assumption that the one with the most skillpoints automaticly wins
yes it is true that the person with the higher sp has a slight advantage , but overall the winner is the one who strikes at the best opportunity with the ship that is fitted for the occasion
that is solo pvp and small gang
large fleet fights it depends on the FC , if he has balls your side wins so simple
and another thing PVP isn't soley about winning , it is a game afterall not a second job
and yes i am a awedul pvper myself , i hardly have any kills and some bad losses , but i still have fun
aslong the new launcher willlet me play
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
uglybast
Omicron Technology
0
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Posted - 2013.05.23 07:30:00 -
[206] - Quote
By original poster's logic we could create an endless source of pure energy.
All we need to do is find two pilots with the same SP put them in the same ship with the same fit and let them duel. They will orbit each other endlessly with neither of them dying. There's got to be a way of powering a small town with this perpetual movement. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
645
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Posted - 2013.05.23 07:31:00 -
[207] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:It saddens me that I wasted so much time on a game which pretends to be a PvP game, while having no PvP side whatsoever.
Eve "PvP" formula is simple as wood - more SP wins. You have an account created later than 2007-2008? Automatic defeat at every attempt of pvping.
So, my question is, when eve is getting PvP which depends on something other than pure blob of bigger SP?
Pretty sure you're completely wrong.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=corp&name=Cipher+Jones+Holdings+LLC
From: Tommas De'Wins
To: Cipher Jones
Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
16
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Posted - 2013.05.23 07:41:00 -
[208] - Quote
I think this is a troll. But you are right in a way. To specialize does take time. If you want to beat a person in a 1 v 1 and you're a newb and they're a specialist in the ship they're flying, all thing being equal you will die.
Of course specializing takes time, so does leveling in every other leveling game, and this is a leveling game despite what people say.
However, given that 99.9% of pvp is group pvp, the leveling (sp) stuff is not that important. Of course if you're in a gang of newbies and you're fighting a gang of specialists (high skillpoint / experienced at EvE PvP) you're going to die.
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Domer Pyle
Northern Flemish Bastards Inc
Yulai Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.05.23 08:02:00 -
[209] - Quote
the problem with eve pvp isn't that "moar sp wins", rather, it's that people are too cautious. fleets tend not to engage each other unless they're certain they're going to win. this leads to hours of flying around, doing nothing because the other guys are bigger. this is boring.
"Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known.
Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door.
If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator?
You never remembered who it was that closed you in."
- Ior Labron |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
222
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Posted - 2013.05.23 08:08:00 -
[210] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:It saddens me that I wasted so much time on a game which pretends to be a PvP game, while having no PvP side whatsoever.
Eve "PvP" formula is simple as wood - more SP wins. You have an account created later than 2007-2008? Automatic defeat at every attempt of pvping.
So, my question is, when eve is getting PvP which depends on something other than pure blob of bigger SP?
OP could you please explain what "real" PvP is by your definition.
Also since I am a 2009 character and like many in this thread have personal experiences that seem to prove your supposition wrong could you give us an overview of how you formed your conclusions.
Please include supporting evidence such as killmail links as well as links to any other material supporting your argument so we can make a more informed decision on the validity of your contention.
Thank you.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
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