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Din Chao Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore 246	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:57:00 - [31] - Quote I've never seen a killmail that made the distinction between aggressor and defender, only "Victim" and those involved in making someone a "Victim." Those are your only choices.
SB Rico Avioni 183	Posted - 2013.05.23 14:57:00 - [32] - Quote A good PVPer knows when to agress, There are at times advantages to aggressing first and others disadvantages, as mentioned about sentries. Also on a station I like the other guy to shoot before he can see what I am capable of so he is nice and aggressed... Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once. Killing me should be for free.
Doddy Dark-Rising 838	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:00:00 - [33] - Quote Choosing not to fire the first shot regardless of the situation is fairly suicidal. If another player is at war with you or is an outlaw they are clearly agressors already and letting them shoot first is dumb. Same goes if an enemy has bad standing, they clearly did something in the past to have the standing set. There are many sound tactical reasons for not shooting first however, primarily concerning aggro. It depends on the situation.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 279	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:02:00 - [34] - Quote So many factors contribute into who shoots first and when to shoot at all. Suspect/Criminal flagged? Below -5.0 sec status? Is target a local with backup close? Is target a PL zergling with a cyno? Can you kill target before backup arrives? Can you kill target before you die to gate guns? (if target isn't -5.0 sec status and in lowsec) Can target kite you to death? How is target tanked? (active or passive) Is there a cloaked falcon 30 km away from me that will make me throw my monitor out the window after I die? Does target have an OGB? Do I have backup close enough to get here in time to help? The list goes on and on. About 60% of the 'PvP' in EVE is answering these questions before your 30 second loading cloak disappears and decide to engage or not to engage. Not today spaghetti.
EdFromHumanResources ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 103	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:04:00 - [35] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: So many factors contribute into who shoots first and when to shoot at all. Suspect/Criminal flagged? Below -5.0 sec status? Is target a local with backup close? Is target a PL zergling with a cyno? Can you kill target before backup arrives? Can you kill target before you die to gate guns? (if target isn't -5.0 sec status and in lowsec) Can target kite you to death? How is target tanked? (active or passive) Is there a cloaked falcon 30 km away from me that will make me throw my monitor out the window after I die? Does target have an OGB? Do I have backup close enough to get here in time to help? The list goes on and on. About 60% of the 'PvP' in EVE is answering these questions before your 30 second loading cloak disappears and decide to engage or not to engage. What if it's an out of alliance PL alt with a cyno?
Ramona McCandless Standards and Practices Petition Blizzard 12	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:09:00 - [36] - Quote Adela Talvanen wrote: I'm morally right I don't understand this phrase. What does it mean? "You designed these rules to trick me and it's not fair! I don't have anything left and might as well quit now..."-á-á-Authorized Pixel Distributor Tell The Others
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 280	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:12:00 - [37] - Quote EdFromHumanResources wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: So many factors contribute into who shoots first and when to shoot at all. Suspect/Criminal flagged? Below -5.0 sec status? Is target a local with backup close? Is target a PL zergling with a cyno? Can you kill target before backup arrives? Can you kill target before you die to gate guns? (if target isn't -5.0 sec status and in lowsec) Can target kite you to death? How is target tanked? (active or passive) Is there a cloaked falcon 30 km away from me that will make me throw my monitor out the window after I die? Does target have an OGB? Do I have backup close enough to get here in time to help? The list goes on and on. About 60% of the 'PvP' in EVE is answering these questions before your 30 second loading cloak disappears and decide to engage or not to engage. What if it's an out of alliance PL alt with a cyno? I can smell PL bullsh!t a mile away. Not today spaghetti.
Emiko Luan Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire 68	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:29:00 - [38] - Quote Adela Talvanen wrote: dark heartt wrote: Adela Talvanen wrote: Six Six Six wrote: Adela Talvanen wrote: Do you fire the first shot, or do you wait till your opponent(s) have fired the first shot? If you fire the first shot you are the aggressor, and your opponent is simply defending her/his self. If they fire the first shot at you, they are the aggressor, and you are simply defending yourself. Me, I'll never fire the first shot. If you're at war then to wait until they fire at you is daft. Not necessarily, if they use a gun your shields if the round hits can absorb the first round. I think what you meant to say was this: "If they use a gun and the round hits, your shields can absorb the first round." Is that what you were trying to say? If yes, then what happens when you are in a shield tanked ship? Yes, and if your shield suffered a high rate of damage on the opening salvo, if you were not warp scrambled you would be prudent to exit asap, those that turn and run away live to fight another day. But they fired the first shot they are the aggressor, and you would have the moral high ground to return in a better combat ship for revenge, provided you made a note of your opponents name. You can still warp if you're firing. And if someone appears in your territory they are already the aggressor. +welcome to my world+ http://emikochan13.wordpress.com http://emikochan13.deviantart.com
War Kitten Panda McLegion 2013	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:31:00 - [39] - Quote Adela Talvanen wrote: Do you fire the first shot, or do you wait till your opponent(s) have fired the first shot? If you fire the first shot you are the aggressor, and your opponent is simply defending her/his self. If they fire the first shot at you, they are the aggressor, and you are simply defending yourself. Me, I'll never fire the first shot. In the epic moral battle of good vs. evil, I always play on the good side. I don't care if you shoot first, last or not at all. You're the bad guy. I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
EdFromHumanResources ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 104	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:39:00 - [40] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: EdFromHumanResources wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: So many factors contribute into who shoots first and when to shoot at all. Suspect/Criminal flagged? Below -5.0 sec status? Is target a local with backup close? Is target a PL zergling with a cyno? Can you kill target before backup arrives? Can you kill target before you die to gate guns? (if target isn't -5.0 sec status and in lowsec) Can target kite you to death? How is target tanked? (active or passive) Is there a cloaked falcon 30 km away from me that will make me throw my monitor out the window after I die? Does target have an OGB? Do I have backup close enough to get here in time to help? The list goes on and on. About 60% of the 'PvP' in EVE is answering these questions before your 30 second loading cloak disappears and decide to engage or not to engage. What if it's an out of alliance PL alt with a cyno? I can smell PL bullsh!t a mile away. That's what all the lowsec l33t pvper cyno alts say.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 2494	Posted - 2013.05.23 16:04:00 - [41] - Quote Adela Talvanen wrote: Me, I'll never fire the first shot. But you already did with that OP. Now everyone is firing back. You are going to lose, bra. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
feihcsiM Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 242	Posted - 2013.05.23 16:13:00 - [42] - Quote I hear you HAVE to shoot first when flying a Phoenix or the POS may outrun your missiles.. It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 280	Posted - 2013.05.23 16:25:00 - [43] - Quote EdFromHumanResources wrote: That's what all the lowsec l33t pvper cyno alts say. When 'Is the target a PL zergling with a cyno?' question rises to the top of the list there are a few other questions that must be answered... Do you see at least 1/3 of a fleet composed of Tech 2 logistics ships on dscan? Do you see 30 T3 battlecruisers on dscan? Did you see 30 Nyx's on scan on your way through Amamake? Does the target have a slight air of scumbag entitlement? Does the target not respond in local chat due to his strict alliance rules? The douchebag checklist goes on and on... Not today spaghetti.
Reicheck Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2013.05.23 16:31:00 - [44] - Quote Samillian wrote: Dear Op Aggressor is such a pejorative term. As a supporter of free market trade and the manufacturing base via combat mediated facilitation of frequent product replacement among the consumer base, combined with an open sourced low base cost stock acquisition model I find it best to operate independently of the restrictive, anti-competitive and socially imposed moral framework you espouse. This made my day, thank you. As for firing first? Chicken or Egg? Market PvP: They fire first with a low price? Or is it me firing first when I undercut? Mining: Getting up early to mine the belt clean before the locals have a chance. Yeah, that could be firing first. Making me get up early... could be them firing first. Trolling: You know the rules and so do I. First time I went into 0.4, someone else fired first. I couldn't, my Iteron was unarmed. That was when I learned what going into 0.4 in an unarmed hauler meant. lol Most of the rest of my interactions are in Hi-Sec so, they'll be firing first unless I know I can take out the suspect. No sig here.
Obvious Cyno The Scope Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2013.05.23 18:51:00 - [45] - Quote I'll typically let them aggress first. Then let my namesake do the rest. Question is circumstantial.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 1840	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:05:00 - [46] - Quote I'm a non-combatant. So whenever someone fails to lock me, I win. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Toriessian Helion Production Labs Mildly Intoxicated 124	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:08:00 - [47] - Quote Six Six Six wrote: Adela Talvanen wrote: Do you fire the first shot, or do you wait till your opponent(s) have fired the first shot? If you fire the first shot you are the aggressor, and your opponent is simply defending her/his self. If they fire the first shot at you, they are the aggressor, and you are simply defending yourself. Me, I'll never fire the first shot. If you're at war then to wait until they fire at you is daft. Not true. In a lot of cases fights happen on gates. If someone jumps into the gate I'm on I can't shoot right away until I'm sure they aren't aligning back to the gate. If they do its cake for them to make it back through a lot of time and I won't be able to chase them because I have aggression. If they shoot first I don't have this problem and I can get range, point them, and light them up. Basics.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 747	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:29:00 - [48] - Quote Marianne Pollard wrote: I'd also be interested to know how long a piece of string is. Anyone? Depends on the optimism of the person using it, might be shorter or much much longer. removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
KuroVolt The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 254	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:35:00 - [49] - Quote It depends wether they are red or not. Im from CVA, we are NRDS [Not Red Dont Shoot] If someone is neutral to us we give them the benefit of the doubt, so we dont engage until they do.
Skex Relbore Space Exploitation Inc Get Off My Lawn 236	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:39:00 - [50] - Quote Always point them first, then shoot and don't forget to overheat. Combat in EVE is a race to see who can reduce the other ship's hit points to zero first, why would you want to give your opponent a head start? Unless you just like losing ships.
Beltze Sorgin L V B Industries STELLAR CONSTELLATION 11	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:58:00 - [51] - Quote 1. Lock the target. 2. Bait the line. 3. Spread the net. 4. Catch your man. 1 mil to anyone who can name the artist & song! (EVEmail me for ya reward. 1st received wins.) Seriously though I'm a bit of a newbie to PVP (but frack at least I'm trying!) so I tend to take a look at the ship my potential enemy is flying & the range before locking.
Cannibal Kane My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse 1800	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:05:00 - [52] - Quote Beltze Sorgin wrote: 1. Lock the target. 2. Bait the line. 3. Spread the net. 4. Catch your man. 1 mil to anyone who can name the artist & song! (EVEmail me for ya reward. 1st received wins.) Seriously though I'm a bit of a newbie to PVP (but frack at least I'm trying!) so I tend to take a look at the ship my potential enemy is flying & the range before locking. Front 242 - Headhunter "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
Vortexo VonBrenner Coldest Sea Sailing 234	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:13:00 - [53] - Quote Adela Talvanen wrote: Do you fire the first shot, or do you wait till your opponent(s) have fired the first shot? If you fire the first shot you are the aggressor, and your opponent is simply defending her/his self. If they fire the first shot at you, they are the aggressor, and you are simply defending yourself. Me, I'll never fire the first shot. Wow, OP, I truly suck embarassingly horribly at PVP, but even I know better than that...you make me feel like Conan the Tactical Spacewarrior Leet Genius. I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming.
Beltze Sorgin L V B Industries STELLAR CONSTELLATION 11	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:18:00 - [54] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Beltze Sorgin wrote: 1. Lock the target. 2. Bait the line. 3. Spread the net. 4. Catch your man. 1 mil to anyone who can name the artist & song! (EVEmail me for ya reward. 1st received wins.) Seriously though I'm a bit of a newbie to PVP (but frack at least I'm trying!) so I tend to take a look at the ship my potential enemy is flying & the range before locking. Front 242 - Headhunter Not an EVEmail but still Sir for the frackin quick reply the isk is yours
Beltze Sorgin L V B Industries STELLAR CONSTELLATION 11	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:20:00 - [55] - Quote I suck big time at PVP too. I keep on trying though & I think I'm getting better
Trii Seo Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes 18	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:32:00 - [56] - Quote Han shot first and won. If you want to be cool and win, shoot first. And so I always shoot first. (It doesn't always work.) Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Ckra Trald Stellar Essence STELLAR CONSTELLATION 173	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:36:00 - [57] - Quote when i pvp, I shoot first and lose my rifter I shoot second, I lose my rifter I undock, lose my rifter Select my rifter and lose it plot twist, it turns into a smaller rifter ^^ poorly made blunt forum post above ^^
Zappity Kurved Space 94	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:37:00 - [58] - Quote Shoot first, worry about sec status later. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Zappity Kurved Space 94	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:41:00 - [59] - Quote Ckra Trald wrote: when i pvp, I shoot first and lose my rifter I shoot second, I lose my rifter I undock, lose my rifter Select my rifter and lose it plot twist, it turns into a smaller rifter This is the correct procedure. Carry on. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Barbelo Valentinian Justified Chaos 362	Posted - 2013.05.23 22:07:00 - [60] - Quote Years ago I made a Rifter alt in order to do the done thing. He even had a badass bio and all. Trouble is, I could never bring myself to shoot first. Don't know what it is, but no matter how I turn it around, play with it, rp it, whatever, something in me just revolts at shooting first, even in a game. So I'm still crap at PvP. It's an illness, I know.

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