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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
SauronTheMage
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Posted - 2005.11.09 12:27:00 -
[31]
This is a good idea. one thing I would add to this system though is that although the owner(s) of the can now have open rights to shoot the thief... if the thief were to return fire, he then would become flag'd as per standard agression rules for the standard 20 minutes. This way if someone is in secure space and thieves a can, if they were to try to retaliate against the owner of the can... the thief would be pwn'd by concord. That would definitely help cut back secure space thieving.
 Originally by: lickspittle
When you are criminal flagged for stealing from containers belonging to other people, you get criminal flagged to the player corporation of the person who owns the container, to the gang of the person that owns the container as well as directly to the owner of the container.
If the container is owned by a player corporation, then you get flagged to that corporation for stealing from it.
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lickspittle
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Posted - 2005.11.09 13:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: The Wizz117
Edited by: The Wizz117 on 07/11/2005 18:49:50
ROFL
i have a very good idea
after the patch im going with some friends to jita and sayon we give away free stuf on the local, jetison all cind of cans, they look in the can and grep the 1 unit of veldspar and then we gank em 
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
-- Richard
CCP Programmer. Anything said above is not the official line, but my own take or opinion. |
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Fire Hawk
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Posted - 2005.11.09 15:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: lickspittle
Originally by: The Wizz117
Edited by: The Wizz117 on 07/11/2005 18:49:50
ROFL
i have a very good idea
after the patch im going with some friends to jita and sayon we give away free stuf on the local, jetison all cind of cans, they look in the can and grep the 1 unit of veldspar and then we gank em
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
Dont reply to him ffs. There is allways ppl that think they are genious and got ideas that noone can get.
_______________________________________________________
ATUK French Wing - Fear the french touch |
Christopher Scott
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:00:00 -
[34]
Carebears have geen using a game exploit since beta, in order to mine in an efficiency that was not intended. I would think that getting away with using a game exploit, for only the risk of someone scooping the can, was a good deal in itself.
Apparently that isn't enough. Now they want abilities to deter people from taking advantage of them while they use an exploit. Funny.
Too bad this flagging change is going to do nothing to stop or deterr can theft. What it will do, however, is open a whole new doorway to ganking miners in empire space. No wars required!
Be careful what you wish for, carebears.. oh too late. Now you will have to live with the consequences.. or die with them.
Beggars can't be choosers. Yarr!
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Christopher Scott
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: lickspittle
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
Because, we all know how well the "existing" dialog boxes prevent people from getting concordokkened or market scammed. 
Oh, the amount of people that will die in empire once this goes live.. it makes me giggle. I can't wait to read the forums afterwards.
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.11.10 05:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Christopher Scott
Originally by: lickspittle
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
Because, we all know how well the "existing" dialog boxes prevent people from getting concordokkened or market scammed.
Oh, the amount of people that will die in empire once this goes live.. it makes me giggle. I can't wait to read the forums afterwards.
The thing to remember is that they might die.. in the begining..
The learning curve will be rough.. but the learning, it will occur.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.10 06:15:00 -
[37]
well it will also do with those macro cans that jet mine simply replace their can with youre can (sure ok u will get marked as well but hey what are they going to do turn a mining laser on u rofl) and what about NPC corps how will they be affected by the corp being able to attack em (players in NPC corps)
Still it might just be enough to encourage those in those sec systems to move a bit play more carefully etc .... and it might just encourage more ore theifing.
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Zeromancer
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Posted - 2005.11.10 13:51:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Christopher Scott
Originally by: lickspittle
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
Because, we all know how well the "existing" dialog boxes prevent people from getting concordokkened or market scammed.
Oh, the amount of people that will die in empire once this goes live.. it makes me giggle. I can't wait to read the forums afterwards.
It's really funny when wannabie pirates goes on the forums and think they are sooo bad.
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Andrymeda
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Posted - 2005.11.10 14:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sarina Talglit
It seems to me that this "criminal flagging" is a big mistake about to happen.
First of all, why do you have to jet can mine? There is actually no need for it, especially if you are in a group there should be no chance for anyone to steal anything, unless, of course, you are macromining or afk mining and are not there to watch local events. Btw, afk miners can't move stuff to a can, anyways... If you do jet can mining in a miner group you are there to watch the can and can grab your own stuff if someone is closing in for a steal.
It seems to be that jet can miners are just plain lazy, not willing to pop in to a station to unload. Which really does not take more than minutes for a round trip if you even bother to set up any instamarks... A claim that 15 minutes is too long to visit a station and get back to the roid field is just plain silly. I can do it in two minutes with a Barge! Even faster with a mining cruiser. Use those instamarks!
Jet can mining is a choice which includes the risk of losing the ore. Why jet can miners should be especially protected, I cannot comprehend.
But all this does not matter to me. I don't steal ore. Nor do I do jet can mining.
I sure don't mind if my kill loots are protected. But that should be on a timer, say 5-10 minutes after the mission is done or 1-2 hours max in other cases. Otherwise the systems will be full of refused or ignored loot cans. And what that would do to server loads, well, would be interesting to see. Like 10.000 uncollected cans in Oursulaert, for example. Lol.
What bothers me however, is the possibility of killer teams in high security space especially hunting noobs. Spew some jet cans around noob areas and wait till some less aware character comes looking. Then *blammo*. Dead noob. Admit it, some of the more evil characters just plain enjoy killing noobs. Legalizing it could be very bad. Or do you plan on banning regulars from the noob systems altogether?
What about the other option? Nerf the jet cans. Make them the size of the smallest of available cans or the biggest droppable loot items. Have a rat kill drop several small cans. Problem solved as then there would be no need to jet can mine anymore...
We have been listening the whine of the jet canners  for months. Thus the "no whining" order is very, very welcome, indeed. Thank you.
I think you missed the point. Your cans are still subject to thieves. The problem in the past is the victim could not retaliate or the victim would be CONCORDOKEN. Criminal flagging won't deter a determined thief, but now you can do something about it without penalty.
Nothing is taken away, just adding a long missing feature that should have been in the game years ago.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.11.10 20:37:00 -
[40]
@lickspittle
what will the thief be able to do about being shot?
will he have no option but to sit there and take a beating, or will he be able to react agressively if attacked?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.10 22:18:00 -
[41]
Thief can shoot back
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Plystrain Farnas
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Posted - 2005.11.10 22:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: keepiru
Thief can shoot back
Sorry I must of missed this , but where does it say that?
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Lady Serena
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Posted - 2005.11.11 06:17:00 -
[43]
there's a question that came up today, some hours ago... there were two guys, shooting each other, and both got killed by the gate sentrys... will the gate sentry shoot me when i loot the can the sentry's kill left over?
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.11 08:32:00 -
[44]
yes to the last post and no the theif cant shoot back they must evade or get concorded
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.11.11 17:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: sonofollo
no the theif cant shoot back they must evade or get concorded
Originally by: keepiru
Thief can shoot back
have either of you tested this, or is it just conjecture?
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TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2005.11.11 22:32:00 -
[46]
Edited by: TotensBurntCorpse on 11/11/2005 22:33:25
Originally by: lickspittle
When you are criminal flagged for stealing from containers belonging to other people, you get criminal flagged to the player corporation of the person who owns the container, to the gang of the person that owns the container as well as directly to the owner of the container.
If the container is owned by a player corporation, then you get flagged to that corporation for stealing from it.
Well to me the answer is above....
You are criminal flagged to the player, his/her gang and finally his/her corporation. You are not criminally flagged to concord.
Since you have to agress to get criminally flagged you should by current methods be allowed to shoot any of them, since you are already criminally flagged. IF shooting NOW flaggs you to concord then this is a different issue. This has to be checked when the changes go live.
So based upon how the flagging mechanics work in the live version I can forsee ALOT of ship explosions occuring, as well as the occasional attempts at podding.
Is it just me or are mechanics of the flagging system NOT being explained very clearly by the DEVS????? As this still seems very unclear from the thief's standpoint. Which in turn affects the amount of retaliation that one can do.
TotensBurntCorpse
Likes
EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes
Not much. |
Ysolde Xen
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Posted - 2005.11.13 08:39:00 -
[47]
I'd like a couple of minor clarifications that I could not find an answer for on this thread - I've not been able to get onto SiSi to check either.
Theft flagging - I assume that in the case of loot cans it is the person who got the final shot in that the can is registered as 'belonging' to? What about if a gang member or corp mate (real corp not NPC or noobie) tries to take the contents of the can - will they be flagged tot he can's official owner? Does the can 'jointly' belong to all those who participated in it's creation? What about gang members of the theif who may not have been tehre when the can was nicked?
Eye for an Eye flagging - does everyone who participated in the kill (i.e. on the killmail) get a flag on them? Does this flag the killer(s) to the victim's gang and/or Corp as well?
I have a suggestion as well to avoid mass newbie death from not really knowing how it all works - how about one oft he Aura tutorials when someon tries to open a can that isn't theirs the first time? And a pop up message (that you can turn off) I'd assume. (Hey what abotu an Aura tutorial about CONCORD criminal flagging to explain to some hapless noob why he keep getting obliterated every time he tries to undock about the aggro timer (unless that's already there, I've not made a new character in a long while).
Apologies if this has already been said/asked/answered but I couldn't find it. Hint - hows about a forum search tool? |
kveldulfson
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Posted - 2005.11.14 12:32:00 -
[48]
I would like to see this tested more on Singularity. It was in place there before Singularity was rolled back to the same code level as Tranquility. The Pop up message was good its just the rest that need going through.
As there is such a potential for Ganking noobs with this it would be good to see thorough testing.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.11.14 15:13:00 -
[49]
The other way around this n00b trickery, is to simply prevent people in the starter corporations from removing goods from other people's cans unless ganged.
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
Crazy Maxine
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Posted - 2005.11.14 19:35:00 -
[50]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
The other way around this n00b trickery, is to simply prevent people in the starter corporations from removing goods from other people's cans unless ganged.
alot of people like to stay in noobcorp
as for the flagging: if the can owner blows up ur ship, can he also pod u? i love it when someone can blow up ur ship, but nobody should be able to pod the thief 
as thief it would also be nice to still dock, there must be a way to escape, or else thieving is really not profitable if u can only do it ever 15 minutes...
i hope theres a possibility to just watch whats in the can?
if u look in the can, but dont move it to ur cargohold, then u shouldnt be shot...
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Mercade
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Posted - 2005.11.14 21:19:00 -
[51]
Hmmm honestly I don't see any problem with this way.
Situation #1 Mining Barge vs Std Hauler Thief.
-Presently: Mining barge watches thief take all ore with no rammification accept suicide or having a hauler escort.
-New: Mining barge can fit combat drones and scrambler and kill hauler.
Situation #2 Mining Barge vs T2 Hauler
-Presently: Same as before
-New: At risk of expensive equipment T2 ore thief hauler can tank the mining weapons.
Situation #3 4 Mining Barges vs T2 Hauler
-Presently: Same as before
-New: Using teamwork they could probably defeat the hauler, especially with 1 tackling frigate anti theif escort.
Situation #4 4 Mining Barges/frig escort vs Battleship
Presently: Same as before
New: Battleship could steal ore and hope for baited gank. Operation could close up and move and see below situation #6
Situation #5 4 Mining barges/frig escort vs Battleship + Industrial
Presently: Same as before
New: Battleship steals to industrial who takes away scott free while battleship waits to gank any who intervene.
Situation #6 (Recommended) 4 Mining barges + Pvp Combat battleship vs Battleship + hauler
Presently: Same as before
New Option A: Pvp escort battleship stays on site as deterrent. Thief battleship steals ore thus flagging himself. Escort Battleship engages and optionally with jammers then also has barges engage. Any additional ships in gang with that thief battleship shouldn't get flag on mining group (right?) so they can't assist. 5-1 odds thief dies and then they steal back the ore and wait to see if the hauler tries to reclaim it.
New Option B: Pvp Escort battleship stays on stby and mining operation remains prepared to eliminate the thief battleship as it arrives.
Final point realization. The key element is whether the following is true.
Thief battleship steals = can owner + corp + gang = can shoot.
Can owner/corp/gang attacks battleship = battleship can shoot them.
BUT! gang members with battleship can NOT attack can owner/corp/gang if they aggress battleship!
KEY POINT! because that's the difference between gank fleets and being able to bring muscle to deal 1 by 1 with anyone who attempts to thief in large ships.
that will make or break it
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Abdalion
But but but....Bald is beautiful!
It sure is. Wait... what are we talking about here? Nevermind.
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M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2005.11.14 21:38:00 -
[52]
Why bother with any weapons.
Fit a bunch of scramblers, and webbers. Hold the thief there until one of you gets bored. or actually physically dies :D
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
...5 hours later...
"give it back"
"no" :D
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Kathleen
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Posted - 2005.11.14 22:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jenna Malone
If I was flagged and the can owner took a shot at me, can I at least shoot back?
I don't think so as that would clearly destroy the point, people would just steal knowing them can take out the guy if he tries to fight back. No, if that is the case it needs to be changed, the theif should be attacked by concord if he tries to fight back, thats just fair play.
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Cdr Foxbat
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Posted - 2005.11.15 05:02:00 -
[54]
I agree that the miner can shoot at the theif - but not the other way.
One possible exeption to this should be jetcans near stations and gates. Here's why:
I was in Esa a couple of days ago - and someone had spammed the exit to the station with cans - in a velator and criminaly flagged - about 10 or so cans where there - from when he met his inevitable end gunned down by sentries and concord.
I was still in a ASCN corp and in quite a hurry to get out of the station area else my unarmed vigil would get a nice NBSI antimatter/em/laser/missile paintjob - but due to all of the cans surrounding me my ship chose instead to bob up and down refusing to do anything - boxed in by cans from all sides. So eventualy I had to pick up 5 civillian electron blasters before warping off.
This kind of can spam could be done to force people to be flagged - so a 15km from gate or station exit/warp in free for all path should be enforced.
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Ninketsu
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Posted - 2005.11.15 08:54:00 -
[55]
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad
Why bother with any weapons.
Fit a bunch of scramblers, and webbers. Hold the thief there until one of you gets bored. or actually physically dies :D
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
...5 hours later...
"give it back"
"no" :D
Hahahah, what a pain.
______________________________________
Gobling Artillery
1.Find a cousin.
2.Load the cousin in the cannon.
3.Find another cousin. |
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