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Andouus La
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Posted - 2005.10.26 14:29:00 -
[1]
I've been checking up on the test server some of the new changes to the can jettisons that is made.
This is extremely positive to tha bone!!!
This new system as is it proposed is sooooo sweet.
First, the loots that npc pirates drops are named from your tker. Good deal.
If someone take from your loot he's flagged. Good deal.
All good up to now no comments to be made to that.
Where I saw some stuff to be tweaked is on the fact that you can still dock if you are flagged and this goes for the gates also I assume.
This would need a change. If you have a criminal flag from a theft, you shoud'nt be either to dock or use a gate during the time of your criminal flag.
Could be the same notice you have when you play with a corp mate and the station refuses for 15 secs to let you dock because of your recent agression.
Second, I was talking to peeps about this 15 minutes criminal theft flagging. Everybody seems to appreciate the idea.
Someone told me this thaugh. If you are in a barge, 15 min is enoth to go in a station and pick up another ship to go after a thief.
The criminal flagging should be extended to 30 minutes at least to be really be deterrent.
no whining i reapeat no whining - end of transmission lol.
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Sarina Talglit
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Posted - 2005.10.28 06:15:00 -
[2]
It seems to me that this "criminal flagging" is a big mistake about to happen.
First of all, why do you have to jet can mine? There is actually no need for it, especially if you are in a group there should be no chance for anyone to steal anything, unless, of course, you are macromining or afk mining and are not there to watch local events. Btw, afk miners can't move stuff to a can, anyways... If you do jet can mining in a miner group you are there to watch the can and can grab your own stuff if someone is closing in for a steal.
It seems to be that jet can miners are just plain lazy, not willing to pop in to a station to unload. Which really does not take more than minutes for a round trip if you even bother to set up any instamarks... A claim that 15 minutes is too long to visit a station and get back to the roid field is just plain silly. I can do it in two minutes with a Barge! Even faster with a mining cruiser. Use those instamarks!
Jet can mining is a choice which includes the risk of losing the ore. Why jet can miners should be especially protected, I cannot comprehend.
But all this does not matter to me. I don't steal ore. Nor do I do jet can mining.
I sure don't mind if my kill loots are protected. But that should be on a timer, say 5-10 minutes after the mission is done or 1-2 hours max in other cases. Otherwise the systems will be full of refused or ignored loot cans. And what that would do to server loads, well, would be interesting to see. Like 10.000 uncollected cans in Oursulaert, for example. Lol.
What bothers me however, is the possibility of killer teams in high security space especially hunting noobs. Spew some jet cans around noob areas and wait till some less aware character comes looking. Then *blammo*. Dead noob. Admit it, some of the more evil characters just plain enjoy killing noobs. Legalizing it could be very bad. Or do you plan on banning regulars from the noob systems altogether?
What about the other option? Nerf the jet cans. Make them the size of the smallest of available cans or the biggest droppable loot items. Have a rat kill drop several small cans. Problem solved as then there would be no need to jet can mine anymore...
We have been listening the whine of the jet canners  for months. Thus the "no whining" order is very, very welcome, indeed. Thank you. |
kveldulfson
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Posted - 2005.10.28 07:45:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Sarina Talglit
What bothers me however, is the possibility of killer teams in high security space especially hunting noobs. Spew some jet cans around noob areas and wait till some less aware character comes looking. Then *blammo*. Dead noob. Admit it, some of the more evil characters just plain enjoy killing noobs. Legalizing it could be very bad. Or do you plan on banning regulars from the noob systems altogether?
I have to agree there are elements to this that do cause concern. I did suggest in another post that the J cans droped by a player are only tagged whilst a player is within 4K and uncloaked which would stop the kill a noob plans..
I like the idea of a timer on possesion of the containers too hopefully further testing on singularity will help work out these issues.
I have to say I do get fed up with players hanging around the edge of a rat fight in the belts only to rush in and collect the loot when its over. At least this will give us the option of opening fire on them.
just my 2 cents
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Elfaen Ethenwe
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Posted - 2005.10.28 08:10:00 -
[4]
does the flagging effect jet cans then ?
I thought it was goign to be rat drops and loot drops from destroyed ships.
Also I thought there was going to be a timer, so after a period of time you will no longer be flagged for looting a can.
So after 15 minutes the can is anybodies.
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Stuu
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Posted - 2005.10.28 11:21:00 -
[5]
Ok, I love this idea of flagging all jet cans even miner cans. The miners like me (sometimes) mine solo and put 27k into the can and then go get the hauler. In this time you can get the swines that come in and pinch the stuff!
But the real question is does it flag you as a criminal if you are in a group? As this should not be the case.
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Kaaii
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Posted - 2005.10.28 14:09:00 -
[6]
Maybe a conformation box, like low sec space, to address the newbe-opening-can-blown-up scenairo..
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.10.28 22:14:00 -
[7]
The flagging element is not the typical criminal flagging.. It is a retaliatory flagging so that the canister owner can shoot you, no one else. This eliminated the concord involvement, and is why you can dock while flagged for a can theft. Im all good with this.
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Meowtis Commander
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Posted - 2005.10.28 22:33:00 -
[8]
I predict the next step will be to warp into a belt with cans with a few ganker buddies, snag loot from a can, and wait for them to aggress the gang.... 
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.10.28 22:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Meowtis Commander
I predict the next step will be to warp into a belt with cans with a few ganker buddies, snag loot from a can, and wait for them to aggress the gang....
Id say not because the flagging is only saposed to be between the theif and the owner, if gang mates get invovled in secure space condord will blast them. Anyone else who gets invoved on either side of the conflict is under standard agression rules.
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kveldulfson
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Posted - 2005.10.31 08:59:00 -
[10]
From what I have seen on the test server it allows corp mates and gang members to act against the thief also.
Trouble is on the test server that most people are in the same corp..
If I have time I will try and test this out further and ask questions of the devs on the singularity server
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Jenna Malone
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Posted - 2005.11.02 16:40:00 -
[11]
If I was flagged and the can owner took a shot at me, can I at least shoot back?
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.11.02 23:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jenna Malone
If I was flagged and the can owner took a shot at me, can I at least shoot back?
My origional understanding was that in the case of can thievery the flagging was just between the thief and owner of the can. Such that they could engage each other but no one else.. However other posts make my unsure about it now and i have no time to screw around with the test server.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.03 04:35:00 -
[13]
sounds good jumping on shortly to have a look im in a non PF corp so if amnyone wants to test me out ill play the bad guy
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.11.04 15:18:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Grey Area on 04/11/2005 15:19:00
I justdon't get this criminal flagging idea. It sounds horrible complex, open to exploitation and (in the end) a terrible overreaction to someone nicking a bit of ore.
Here (IMHO) is a better system.
All jettisoned cans are given the jettisoning player as owner (exception - cans jettisoned as a result of ship destruction would have the person who laid the final blow as owner)
Add a new item to the right click menu for cargo cans, called "claim". You can only claim cans that you own. You can claim a can that is within 100km of your location. If you log off or leave the system, all claimed cans become unclaimed.
If any other person takes loot from a claimed can, that loot gets a contraband flag (i.e. it's marked as stolen goods). Stations in 0.5+ space will not trade or refine stolen goods. Stolen goods that are detected by customs agents at gates (under the existing contraband rules) are subject to a fine, confiscation and security loss as is currently the case.
Once a contraband item has been sold or recycled in a station in 0.4 or less space, the item (or minerals) loses the contraband flag (it has effectively been "fenced"). If a contraband item is somehow returned to it's original owner, the flag would also be lost (stops people being a pain in the arse by taking the goods and putting them straight back, but as contraband)
Why I prefer this system;
1. It's a more reasonable response to theft than blowing somebody out of the sky.
2. It would allow ore/loot thieves to still carry out their trade...but they have to put some effort into it, smuggling the stuff out of secure space.
3. It won't stop people salvaging junk...I know some anal retentives will claim all cans even if they don't intend to collect it...but I'm sure most wouldn't be so mean. Plus once they have logged off/left system the goods are free for all again.
4. It's not as open to abuse as the criminal flagging system, as carrying contraband is NOT an excuse for other players to shoot at you.
I can't think of any situation that this system would not handle. Feel free to comment if you think there are any potential problems.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.11.04 15:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gwenvahar
The flagging element is not the typical criminal flagging.. It is a retaliatory flagging so that the canister owner can shoot you, no one else. This eliminated the concord involvement, and is why you can dock while flagged for a can theft. Im all good with this.
So now can thieves will turn up in a BS, that's all. Most miners are not heavily armed. This patch should be called the "Dead Miner Patch", because that is what it will result in.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.11.05 07:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Gwenvahar
The flagging element is not the typical criminal flagging.. It is a retaliatory flagging so that the canister owner can shoot you, no one else. This eliminated the concord involvement, and is why you can dock while flagged for a can theft. Im all good with this.
So now can thieves will turn up in a BS, that's all. Most miners are not heavily armed. This patch should be called the "Dead Miner Patch", because that is what it will result in.
If a BS pilot thinks they are making more ISK thieving can over anything else more power to them. The primary point is to reduce thievery in secure space, with miners who are just starting out, using unsecure cans. Also to reduce thievery of loot cans... It's the little fish in little ships which comprise the majority of can theft.
All in all any efort in this drection is better than none, and I believe future evolution of the system will be even more dynamic and intuitive.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.05 11:06:00 -
[17]
small problem how can u guys know about this yet CCP still havetn got the lateat build working on SISI its still running the TQ client. Please explain do u have choas server access or something ?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.11.05 18:13:00 -
[18]
"If a BS pilot thinks they are making more ISK thieving can over anything else more power to them. The primary point is to reduce thievery in secure space, with miners who are just starting out, using unsecure cans."
The point you're missing though is, if the flagged thief can shoot back after being attacked, you will see people going to belts in battleships not to steal ore to make isk, but to steal ore so they can blow up the miners right under the nose of CONCORD.
Done this way it won't reduce thievery but if anything encourages it *and* cause miners die left and right on top of that. How's that improvement for the miners..?
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.11.05 20:14:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Gwenvahar on 05/11/2005 20:14:47
Originally by: j0sephine
"If a BS pilot thinks they are making more ISK thieving can over anything else more power to them. The primary point is to reduce thievery in secure space, with miners who are just starting out, using unsecure cans."
The point you're missing though is, if the flagged thief can shoot back after being attacked, you will see people going to belts in battleships not to steal ore to make isk, but to steal ore so they can blow up the miners right under the nose of CONCORD.
Done this way it won't reduce thievery but if anything encourages it *and* cause miners die left and right on top of that. How's that improvement for the miners..?
Aye I sapose this could be a new issue but if a BS stole ore from a can to provoke a fight, would any but the most foolish take that bait? I do not believe that this system will allow griefers to get themselves flaged just so that they can blast a miner.. I'd hope such an exploit of a system intended to reduce grief would never be so open to abuse. My belief is that the system allows the thief to be flaged such that the victem can shoot them if they want to and not get attcked by concord themselves. If the system allows thieves with superior firepower to get flaged to avoid concord for their true intent, to grief, then I think it will require more refinement before introduction..
Again I regret not having the time to investigate it myself on the test server. Has anyone been looking into it?
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Karrihn
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Posted - 2005.11.05 20:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: j0sephine
"If a BS pilot thinks they are making more ISK thieving can over anything else more power to them. The primary point is to reduce thievery in secure space, with miners who are just starting out, using unsecure cans."
The point you're missing though is, if the flagged thief can shoot back after being attacked, you will see people going to belts in battleships not to steal ore to make isk, but to steal ore so they can blow up the miners right under the nose of CONCORD.
Done this way it won't reduce thievery but if anything encourages it *and* cause miners die left and right on top of that. How's that improvement for the miners..?
In a twisted demented and cruel way it will fetch a better price for mins? On the other hand it also would allow miners to set traps for the would-be theives.
The Destruction of your ship is usually preceeded by the thought,"I think I will try somthing a little different this time...." |
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Riley Craven
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Posted - 2005.11.06 17:11:00 -
[21]
As a semi carebare an past jet can miner I think this plan is way stupid and is taking more resources to fix than needed. Theiving should not be allowed plain and simple. Why? Because in real life you can put locks on anything you want. Why is it so hard to lock cans to everyone but that player or that gang? Because ccp likes this crap where people can effect each other. Why with all the tech in eve cant jet cans have locks, I will never know. So many things in this game make no since.
If they want to allow thieving then it should also be a sec status hit, its wrong just like shooting someone is.
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.11.07 05:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Riley Craven
As a semi carebare an past jet can miner I think this plan is way stupid and is taking more resources to fix than needed. Theiving should not be allowed plain and simple. Why? Because in real life you can put locks on anything you want. Why is it so hard to lock cans to everyone but that player or that gang? Because ccp likes this crap where people can effect each other. Why with all the tech in eve cant jet cans have locks, I will never know. So many things in this game make no since.
If they want to allow thieving then it should also be a sec status hit, its wrong just like shooting someone is.
The other side of this has to do with loot can theft and the missioning system.. Missions at gates or nearby populated ares attract thieves to the loot cans droped. This is especially true when its the larger ship classes, cruisers and BS's, as they can easily drop basic loot which at BS size can fetch 500k per item.
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lickspittle
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Posted - 2005.11.07 11:00:00 -
[23]
When you are criminal flagged for stealing from containers belonging to other people, you get criminal flagged to the player corporation of the person who owns the container, to the gang of the person that owns the container as well as directly to the owner of the container.
If the container is owned by a player corporation, then you get flagged to that corporation for stealing from it.
-- Richard
CCP Programmer. Anything said above is not the official line, but my own take or opinion. |
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.07 11:03:00 -
[24]
ok so can we use the new SISI build isntead of the TQ one that was running yet i really wanna try this out
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Anna IsI
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Posted - 2005.11.07 14:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jenna Malone
If I was flagged and the can owner took a shot at me, can I at least shoot back?
No and u you should die if you do, 'cousae you will have concord blasting you as well.
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StOrM ViPeR
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Posted - 2005.11.07 17:47:00 -
[26]
If you shoot the person that steals They can shoot back!
Great
I dont see an exploitable thing here at all.
I mean come on, A Battle Ship warps in , your hardly going to engage it when your in a belt.
no one does Ore theft in a battleship. These Changes are welcome, its what people have been screaming for.
Its really quite simple, The miner Jets his can, Ore theif comes in and steals ore, miner opens fire on Badger (BattleBadger) and either loses or dies.
Thats the nature of the game, The miner used to have to sit back and watch his ore vanish.
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.11.07 18:45:00 -
[27]
ROFL
i have a very good idea
after the patch im going with some friends to jita and sayon we give away free stuf on the local, jetison all cind of cans, they look in the can and grep the 1 unit of veldspar and then we gank em 
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.11.07 23:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: lickspittle
When you are criminal flagged for stealing from containers belonging to other people, you get criminal flagged to the player corporation of the person who owns the container, to the gang of the person that owns the container as well as directly to the owner of the container.
If the container is owned by a player corporation, then you get flagged to that corporation for stealing from it.
Thank you for clearing up some questions
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.11.07 23:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: The Wizz117
Edited by: The Wizz117 on 07/11/2005 18:49:50
ROFL
i have a very good idea
after the patch im going with some friends to jita and sayon we give away free stuf on the local, jetison all cind of cans, they look in the can and grep the 1 unit of veldspar and then we gank em
u do need more thinking for that then sitting behind a gate with a gang and shooting evryting that comes by!
Im sure the learning curve will be painful for some, fun for others, and a big yawn for the majority in the middle.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.08 00:00:00 -
[30]
well basically the newbies that fall for it will soon be forum whining and will be told about the changes and not to trust anyone offering free loot that they havd dropped without having a) well armed ship b) covert ops c) big ship with cloaker so if the can is abandoned they can loot it cloak get out of range in case anyone is around and then back to station
Also u will need to check anyone in local that owns the can if not u can take it and then worry bou the risks
Still the macroers will find themselves losing more ships unless they update their programs to not take ore out of anyone elses can. - and of course all of that is against the EULA and if they are reported and found to be doing it - bye bye accountholder
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SauronTheMage
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Posted - 2005.11.09 12:27:00 -
[31]
This is a good idea. one thing I would add to this system though is that although the owner(s) of the can now have open rights to shoot the thief... if the thief were to return fire, he then would become flag'd as per standard agression rules for the standard 20 minutes. This way if someone is in secure space and thieves a can, if they were to try to retaliate against the owner of the can... the thief would be pwn'd by concord. That would definitely help cut back secure space thieving.
Originally by: lickspittle
When you are criminal flagged for stealing from containers belonging to other people, you get criminal flagged to the player corporation of the person who owns the container, to the gang of the person that owns the container as well as directly to the owner of the container.
If the container is owned by a player corporation, then you get flagged to that corporation for stealing from it.
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lickspittle
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Posted - 2005.11.09 13:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: The Wizz117
Edited by: The Wizz117 on 07/11/2005 18:49:50
ROFL
i have a very good idea
after the patch im going with some friends to jita and sayon we give away free stuf on the local, jetison all cind of cans, they look in the can and grep the 1 unit of veldspar and then we gank em
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
-- Richard
CCP Programmer. Anything said above is not the official line, but my own take or opinion. |
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Fire Hawk
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Posted - 2005.11.09 15:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: lickspittle
Originally by: The Wizz117
Edited by: The Wizz117 on 07/11/2005 18:49:50
ROFL
i have a very good idea
after the patch im going with some friends to jita and sayon we give away free stuf on the local, jetison all cind of cans, they look in the can and grep the 1 unit of veldspar and then we gank em
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
Dont reply to him ffs. There is allways ppl that think they are genious and got ideas that noone can get.
_______________________________________________________
ATUK French Wing - Fear the french touch |
Christopher Scott
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:00:00 -
[34]
Carebears have geen using a game exploit since beta, in order to mine in an efficiency that was not intended. I would think that getting away with using a game exploit, for only the risk of someone scooping the can, was a good deal in itself.
Apparently that isn't enough. Now they want abilities to deter people from taking advantage of them while they use an exploit. Funny.
Too bad this flagging change is going to do nothing to stop or deterr can theft. What it will do, however, is open a whole new doorway to ganking miners in empire space. No wars required!
Be careful what you wish for, carebears.. oh too late. Now you will have to live with the consequences.. or die with them.
Beggars can't be choosers. Yarr!
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Christopher Scott
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Posted - 2005.11.09 19:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: lickspittle
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
Because, we all know how well the "existing" dialog boxes prevent people from getting concordokkened or market scammed. 
Oh, the amount of people that will die in empire once this goes live.. it makes me giggle. I can't wait to read the forums afterwards.
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.11.10 05:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Christopher Scott
Originally by: lickspittle
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
Because, we all know how well the "existing" dialog boxes prevent people from getting concordokkened or market scammed.
Oh, the amount of people that will die in empire once this goes live.. it makes me giggle. I can't wait to read the forums afterwards.
The thing to remember is that they might die.. in the begining..
The learning curve will be rough.. but the learning, it will occur.
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.10 06:15:00 -
[37]
well it will also do with those macro cans that jet mine simply replace their can with youre can (sure ok u will get marked as well but hey what are they going to do turn a mining laser on u rofl) and what about NPC corps how will they be affected by the corp being able to attack em (players in NPC corps)
Still it might just be enough to encourage those in those sec systems to move a bit play more carefully etc .... and it might just encourage more ore theifing.
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Zeromancer
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Posted - 2005.11.10 13:51:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Christopher Scott
Originally by: lickspittle
Your idea isn't actually that good. When you go to take something from someone's can you get a popup dialog that says, "take this stuff that belongs to someone else and this is what you get yourself into."
I have mentioned this in other threads on this topic.
Because, we all know how well the "existing" dialog boxes prevent people from getting concordokkened or market scammed.
Oh, the amount of people that will die in empire once this goes live.. it makes me giggle. I can't wait to read the forums afterwards.
It's really funny when wannabie pirates goes on the forums and think they are sooo bad.
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Andrymeda
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Posted - 2005.11.10 14:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sarina Talglit
It seems to me that this "criminal flagging" is a big mistake about to happen.
First of all, why do you have to jet can mine? There is actually no need for it, especially if you are in a group there should be no chance for anyone to steal anything, unless, of course, you are macromining or afk mining and are not there to watch local events. Btw, afk miners can't move stuff to a can, anyways... If you do jet can mining in a miner group you are there to watch the can and can grab your own stuff if someone is closing in for a steal.
It seems to be that jet can miners are just plain lazy, not willing to pop in to a station to unload. Which really does not take more than minutes for a round trip if you even bother to set up any instamarks... A claim that 15 minutes is too long to visit a station and get back to the roid field is just plain silly. I can do it in two minutes with a Barge! Even faster with a mining cruiser. Use those instamarks!
Jet can mining is a choice which includes the risk of losing the ore. Why jet can miners should be especially protected, I cannot comprehend.
But all this does not matter to me. I don't steal ore. Nor do I do jet can mining.
I sure don't mind if my kill loots are protected. But that should be on a timer, say 5-10 minutes after the mission is done or 1-2 hours max in other cases. Otherwise the systems will be full of refused or ignored loot cans. And what that would do to server loads, well, would be interesting to see. Like 10.000 uncollected cans in Oursulaert, for example. Lol.
What bothers me however, is the possibility of killer teams in high security space especially hunting noobs. Spew some jet cans around noob areas and wait till some less aware character comes looking. Then *blammo*. Dead noob. Admit it, some of the more evil characters just plain enjoy killing noobs. Legalizing it could be very bad. Or do you plan on banning regulars from the noob systems altogether?
What about the other option? Nerf the jet cans. Make them the size of the smallest of available cans or the biggest droppable loot items. Have a rat kill drop several small cans. Problem solved as then there would be no need to jet can mine anymore...
We have been listening the whine of the jet canners for months. Thus the "no whining" order is very, very welcome, indeed. Thank you.
I think you missed the point. Your cans are still subject to thieves. The problem in the past is the victim could not retaliate or the victim would be CONCORDOKEN. Criminal flagging won't deter a determined thief, but now you can do something about it without penalty.
Nothing is taken away, just adding a long missing feature that should have been in the game years ago.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.11.10 20:37:00 -
[40]
@lickspittle
what will the thief be able to do about being shot?
will he have no option but to sit there and take a beating, or will he be able to react agressively if attacked?
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.11.10 22:18:00 -
[41]
Thief can shoot back
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Where are the named 800mm Plates and Mega Ions, CCP?
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Plystrain Farnas
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Posted - 2005.11.10 22:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: keepiru
Thief can shoot back
Sorry I must of missed this , but where does it say that?
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Lady Serena
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Posted - 2005.11.11 06:17:00 -
[43]
there's a question that came up today, some hours ago... there were two guys, shooting each other, and both got killed by the gate sentrys... will the gate sentry shoot me when i loot the can the sentry's kill left over?
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.11 08:32:00 -
[44]
yes to the last post and no the theif cant shoot back they must evade or get concorded
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.11.11 17:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: sonofollo
no the theif cant shoot back they must evade or get concorded
Originally by: keepiru
Thief can shoot back
have either of you tested this, or is it just conjecture?
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TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2005.11.11 22:32:00 -
[46]
Edited by: TotensBurntCorpse on 11/11/2005 22:33:25
Originally by: lickspittle
When you are criminal flagged for stealing from containers belonging to other people, you get criminal flagged to the player corporation of the person who owns the container, to the gang of the person that owns the container as well as directly to the owner of the container.
If the container is owned by a player corporation, then you get flagged to that corporation for stealing from it.
Well to me the answer is above....
You are criminal flagged to the player, his/her gang and finally his/her corporation. You are not criminally flagged to concord.
Since you have to agress to get criminally flagged you should by current methods be allowed to shoot any of them, since you are already criminally flagged. IF shooting NOW flaggs you to concord then this is a different issue. This has to be checked when the changes go live.
So based upon how the flagging mechanics work in the live version I can forsee ALOT of ship explosions occuring, as well as the occasional attempts at podding.
Is it just me or are mechanics of the flagging system NOT being explained very clearly by the DEVS????? As this still seems very unclear from the thief's standpoint. Which in turn affects the amount of retaliation that one can do.
TotensBurntCorpse
Likes
EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes
Not much. |
Ysolde Xen
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Posted - 2005.11.13 08:39:00 -
[47]
I'd like a couple of minor clarifications that I could not find an answer for on this thread - I've not been able to get onto SiSi to check either.
Theft flagging - I assume that in the case of loot cans it is the person who got the final shot in that the can is registered as 'belonging' to? What about if a gang member or corp mate (real corp not NPC or noobie) tries to take the contents of the can - will they be flagged tot he can's official owner? Does the can 'jointly' belong to all those who participated in it's creation? What about gang members of the theif who may not have been tehre when the can was nicked?
Eye for an Eye flagging - does everyone who participated in the kill (i.e. on the killmail) get a flag on them? Does this flag the killer(s) to the victim's gang and/or Corp as well?
I have a suggestion as well to avoid mass newbie death from not really knowing how it all works - how about one oft he Aura tutorials when someon tries to open a can that isn't theirs the first time? And a pop up message (that you can turn off) I'd assume. (Hey what abotu an Aura tutorial about CONCORD criminal flagging to explain to some hapless noob why he keep getting obliterated every time he tries to undock about the aggro timer (unless that's already there, I've not made a new character in a long while).
Apologies if this has already been said/asked/answered but I couldn't find it. Hint - hows about a forum search tool? |
kveldulfson
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Posted - 2005.11.14 12:32:00 -
[48]
I would like to see this tested more on Singularity. It was in place there before Singularity was rolled back to the same code level as Tranquility. The Pop up message was good its just the rest that need going through.
As there is such a potential for Ganking noobs with this it would be good to see thorough testing.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.11.14 15:13:00 -
[49]
The other way around this n00b trickery, is to simply prevent people in the starter corporations from removing goods from other people's cans unless ganged.
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
Crazy Maxine
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Posted - 2005.11.14 19:35:00 -
[50]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
The other way around this n00b trickery, is to simply prevent people in the starter corporations from removing goods from other people's cans unless ganged.
alot of people like to stay in noobcorp
as for the flagging: if the can owner blows up ur ship, can he also pod u? i love it when someone can blow up ur ship, but nobody should be able to pod the thief 
as thief it would also be nice to still dock, there must be a way to escape, or else thieving is really not profitable if u can only do it ever 15 minutes...
i hope theres a possibility to just watch whats in the can?
if u look in the can, but dont move it to ur cargohold, then u shouldnt be shot...
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Mercade
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Posted - 2005.11.14 21:19:00 -
[51]
Hmmm honestly I don't see any problem with this way.
Situation #1 Mining Barge vs Std Hauler Thief.
-Presently: Mining barge watches thief take all ore with no rammification accept suicide or having a hauler escort.
-New: Mining barge can fit combat drones and scrambler and kill hauler.
Situation #2 Mining Barge vs T2 Hauler
-Presently: Same as before
-New: At risk of expensive equipment T2 ore thief hauler can tank the mining weapons.
Situation #3 4 Mining Barges vs T2 Hauler
-Presently: Same as before
-New: Using teamwork they could probably defeat the hauler, especially with 1 tackling frigate anti theif escort.
Situation #4 4 Mining Barges/frig escort vs Battleship
Presently: Same as before
New: Battleship could steal ore and hope for baited gank. Operation could close up and move and see below situation #6
Situation #5 4 Mining barges/frig escort vs Battleship + Industrial
Presently: Same as before
New: Battleship steals to industrial who takes away scott free while battleship waits to gank any who intervene.
Situation #6 (Recommended) 4 Mining barges + Pvp Combat battleship vs Battleship + hauler
Presently: Same as before
New Option A: Pvp escort battleship stays on site as deterrent. Thief battleship steals ore thus flagging himself. Escort Battleship engages and optionally with jammers then also has barges engage. Any additional ships in gang with that thief battleship shouldn't get flag on mining group (right?) so they can't assist. 5-1 odds thief dies and then they steal back the ore and wait to see if the hauler tries to reclaim it.
New Option B: Pvp Escort battleship stays on stby and mining operation remains prepared to eliminate the thief battleship as it arrives.
Final point realization. The key element is whether the following is true.
Thief battleship steals = can owner + corp + gang = can shoot.
Can owner/corp/gang attacks battleship = battleship can shoot them.
BUT! gang members with battleship can NOT attack can owner/corp/gang if they aggress battleship!
KEY POINT! because that's the difference between gank fleets and being able to bring muscle to deal 1 by 1 with anyone who attempts to thief in large ships.
that will make or break it
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Abdalion
But but but....Bald is beautiful!
It sure is. Wait... what are we talking about here? Nevermind.
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M3ta7h3ad
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Posted - 2005.11.14 21:38:00 -
[52]
Why bother with any weapons.
Fit a bunch of scramblers, and webbers. Hold the thief there until one of you gets bored. or actually physically dies :D
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
...5 hours later...
"give it back"
"no" :D
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Kathleen
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Posted - 2005.11.14 22:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jenna Malone
If I was flagged and the can owner took a shot at me, can I at least shoot back?
I don't think so as that would clearly destroy the point, people would just steal knowing them can take out the guy if he tries to fight back. No, if that is the case it needs to be changed, the theif should be attacked by concord if he tries to fight back, thats just fair play.
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Cdr Foxbat
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Posted - 2005.11.15 05:02:00 -
[54]
I agree that the miner can shoot at the theif - but not the other way.
One possible exeption to this should be jetcans near stations and gates. Here's why:
I was in Esa a couple of days ago - and someone had spammed the exit to the station with cans - in a velator and criminaly flagged - about 10 or so cans where there - from when he met his inevitable end gunned down by sentries and concord.
I was still in a ASCN corp and in quite a hurry to get out of the station area else my unarmed vigil would get a nice NBSI antimatter/em/laser/missile paintjob - but due to all of the cans surrounding me my ship chose instead to bob up and down refusing to do anything - boxed in by cans from all sides. So eventualy I had to pick up 5 civillian electron blasters before warping off.
This kind of can spam could be done to force people to be flagged - so a 15km from gate or station exit/warp in free for all path should be enforced.
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Ninketsu
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Posted - 2005.11.15 08:54:00 -
[55]
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad
Why bother with any weapons.
Fit a bunch of scramblers, and webbers. Hold the thief there until one of you gets bored. or actually physically dies :D
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
"give it back"
"no"
...5 hours later...
"give it back"
"no" :D
Hahahah, what a pain.
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Gobling Artillery
1.Find a cousin.
2.Load the cousin in the cannon.
3.Find another cousin. |
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