Originally by: Nafri

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6x Ion II
1x XL Cl5 2x Wards 1x SBII 1x Warp Disruptor
6x MFS II 1x CPUII

fits easily

DPS: 792.481

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Originally by: Nafri

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6x Ion II
1x XL Cl5 2x Wards 1x SBII 1x Warp Disruptor
6x MFS II 1x CPUII

fits easily

DPS: 792.481

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Originally by: Nafri

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Edited by: Nafri on 31/10/2005 23:39:03

Originally by: jamesw

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Originally by: Nafri

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6x Ion II
1x XL Cl5 2x Wards 1x SBII 1x Warp Disruptor
6x MFS II 1x CPUII

fits easily

DPS: 792.481

---

As a more practical setup, and I dont do maths, I would be interested to see the same calc re-done using 6 x dual-250 II (~20km optimal with antimatter).


And for the record I am not all that happy about the thermal damage bonus. I would much prefer to see some form of non specific damage bonus, or another bonus entirely. I didnt like it when the kinetic bonus got placed on caldari, and I sure as hell dont like it here either.

Predictability for the win?

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6x Dual 250 II
1x XL CL5 2x Wards 1x Heavy Elec Cap Booster 1x Shield Amp
6x MFS II 1x CPU II

DPS: 487.598

With drones: 923.198


Something seems to be wrong with drone damage, about 60 to high or so

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Originally by: Nafri

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Edited by: Nafri on 31/10/2005 23:39:03

Originally by: jamesw

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Originally by: Nafri

---

6x Ion II
1x XL Cl5 2x Wards 1x SBII 1x Warp Disruptor
6x MFS II 1x CPUII

fits easily

DPS: 792.481

---

As a more practical setup, and I dont do maths, I would be interested to see the same calc re-done using 6 x dual-250 II (~20km optimal with antimatter).


And for the record I am not all that happy about the thermal damage bonus. I would much prefer to see some form of non specific damage bonus, or another bonus entirely. I didnt like it when the kinetic bonus got placed on caldari, and I sure as hell dont like it here either.

Predictability for the win?

---

6x Dual 250 II
1x XL CL5 2x Wards 1x Heavy Elec Cap Booster 1x Shield Amp
6x MFS II 1x CPU II

DPS: 487.598

With drones: 923.198


Something seems to be wrong with drone damage, about 60 to high or so

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Originally by: Jim Raynor

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For those who say the Dominix sucks with guns, I hear nothing but good things about the 6 d250mm Railgun 7 Mag Stab II setups.. granted a dmg module stack nerf is forthcoming but for right now the setup is rather pwntastic I am told.

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Originally by: Jim Raynor

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For those who say the Dominix sucks with guns, I hear nothing but good things about the 6 d250mm Railgun 7 Mag Stab II setups.. granted a dmg module stack nerf is forthcoming but for right now the setup is rather pwntastic I am told.

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Originally by: Meridius

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Just a few points.

Why tracking disruptor drones when we don't have any real sort of missile defense? Tracking disruptors own enough and now tracking disrupting drones? Yeah thats real balanced...

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Originally by: Meridius

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Just a few points.

Why tracking disruptor drones when we don't have any real sort of missile defense? Tracking disruptors own enough and now tracking disrupting drones? Yeah thats real balanced...

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Originally by: Siri Danae

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Except you're cutting the ability of the gallente to adapt in combat in half as well. I go from having a setup of 15 drones to customize down to 5. And the drone bay reduction limits my ability to stockpile alternative dronetypes, not to mention the essential backups for when your drones start getting munched, which they will, hp increase or not.

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Originally by: Siri Danae

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Except you're cutting the ability of the gallente to adapt in combat in half as well. I go from having a setup of 15 drones to customize down to 5. And the drone bay reduction limits my ability to stockpile alternative dronetypes, not to mention the essential backups for when your drones start getting munched, which they will, hp increase or not.

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Originally by: Admiral IceBlock

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ill quote myself from the other thread

"sometimes i ask myself why some one would even post such a retarded idea, the answer i get is not nice.

i trained gallente to be able to fly the moros with its 35 heavy drones, now your nerfing it? then skill compensation i want!

lets see, 5 heavy drones now for the moros doing +70% thermal dmg, sure that is "nice". so 15 drones * 400 (preator hp) / 5 (new drones) = 1200 hp for a heavy drone, thats nice really nice for the dominix. but on my moros i was suppose to have 35 drones, i guess MY DRONES will be 35 * 400 / 5 = 2800 hp per. sure sounds good fuxford!

now seriously, please think of something else! this is not the way to do it."

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Originally by: Admiral IceBlock

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ill quote myself from the other thread

"sometimes i ask myself why some one would even post such a retarded idea, the answer i get is not nice.

i trained gallente to be able to fly the moros with its 35 heavy drones, now your nerfing it? then skill compensation i want!

lets see, 5 heavy drones now for the moros doing +70% thermal dmg, sure that is "nice". so 15 drones * 400 (preator hp) / 5 (new drones) = 1200 hp for a heavy drone, thats nice really nice for the dominix. but on my moros i was suppose to have 35 drones, i guess MY DRONES will be 35 * 400 / 5 = 2800 hp per. sure sounds good fuxford!

now seriously, please think of something else! this is not the way to do it."

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Originally by: El'hith

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one other point is, im not sure if im right but by doing this u are making it easier 4 ppl to train 4 non gall ships to get the same damage output, coz uradding skills and stuff which would prob take longer to train than missile skills say.

dunno will look into starting to train 4 a raven/missiles when i log on coz im betting it wil be a better use of my time than further improving my drone skills

also plz plz plz plz plz dont go ahead with the patch DEFINATLY not in its current form. the amount of debate already here shows that the community are divided over whether this is a good idea.

oh further point is i know this is meant to help most races
(hey all races get these changes) but in doing so the gallentine go downhill.... mega domi temp (geddon?) etc, they will all have 5 drones tops, 5 drones are easier to kill off even with the bonus's.
although my corp m8s didnt belive me at this think of it this way

ok say i have a command range of 40km,
atm i can lauch and set drones to attack from here (say all 15)
one or 2 may get popped on the way over if the person attacks em

with the patch they cal easily take out each wave on its way in coz theres only 5 going out at a time... the reduced drone bay means i have less reserves so the domi is essentially nerfed as a drone ships coz it cant keep up the waves it has atm..

this may be a load of cr*p to some ppl but it makes sense to me

keep the racial bonus 4 gall ships (and the arby) even if u have to implement the rest of the changes to keep every1 else happy

if u cant keep the drone command bonus 4 certain ship types DONT GO ahead with the patch.

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Originally by: El'hith

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one other point is, im not sure if im right but by doing this u are making it easier 4 ppl to train 4 non gall ships to get the same damage output, coz uradding skills and stuff which would prob take longer to train than missile skills say.

dunno will look into starting to train 4 a raven/missiles when i log on coz im betting it wil be a better use of my time than further improving my drone skills

also plz plz plz plz plz dont go ahead with the patch DEFINATLY not in its current form. the amount of debate already here shows that the community are divided over whether this is a good idea.

oh further point is i know this is meant to help most races
(hey all races get these changes) but in doing so the gallentine go downhill.... mega domi temp (geddon?) etc, they will all have 5 drones tops, 5 drones are easier to kill off even with the bonus's.
although my corp m8s didnt belive me at this think of it this way

ok say i have a command range of 40km,
atm i can lauch and set drones to attack from here (say all 15)
one or 2 may get popped on the way over if the person attacks em

with the patch they cal easily take out each wave on its way in coz theres only 5 going out at a time... the reduced drone bay means i have less reserves so the domi is essentially nerfed as a drone ships coz it cant keep up the waves it has atm..

this may be a load of cr*p to some ppl but it makes sense to me

keep the racial bonus 4 gall ships (and the arby) even if u have to implement the rest of the changes to keep every1 else happy

if u cant keep the drone command bonus 4 certain ship types DONT GO ahead with the patch.

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Originally by: Andrx

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Not sure if this has been asked i didnt have the time to read all 25 pages, But what about the People who have trained drone interfacing to 5?

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Originally by: Andrx

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Not sure if this has been asked i didnt have the time to read all 25 pages, But what about the People who have trained drone interfacing to 5?

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 02/11/2005 11:36:22

Originally by: jamesw

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call me dumb, but I am one of the biggest drone wh*res in game and I still fail to see how this is a nerf.

Its a big shift yes, but not a nerf.

---

It's a boost to everyone using drones in a non-drone ship. It's a *huge* boost to ships like the Geddon etc, which suddenly get EW capability etc and the same number of drones in space as the Dom.

It's a nerf to the dedicated drone carrier ships (Dom gets hits worst, here).

To clear things up: I like a lot of things about this change. I like the new drone types (at least on paper). I like new drone skills and modules. I just don't like the fact that as envisioned currently, this change will affect ship balance in some unfortunate ways. That still needs some looking at.

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 02/11/2005 11:36:22

Originally by: jamesw

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call me dumb, but I am one of the biggest drone wh*res in game and I still fail to see how this is a nerf.

Its a big shift yes, but not a nerf.

---

It's a boost to everyone using drones in a non-drone ship. It's a *huge* boost to ships like the Geddon etc, which suddenly get EW capability etc and the same number of drones in space as the Dom.

It's a nerf to the dedicated drone carrier ships (Dom gets hits worst, here).

To clear things up: I like a lot of things about this change. I like the new drone types (at least on paper). I like new drone skills and modules. I just don't like the fact that as envisioned currently, this change will affect ship balance in some unfortunate ways. That still needs some looking at.

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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Originally by: jamesw

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How is it a nerf to the drone carriers when they:
a) get more waves of drones.

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That does not apply to all drone carriers, but yes that is a small improvement.

Originally by: jamesw

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b) get more flexible and more damaging drone options.

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More damaging? I must have missed something, to me it seems that the damage is staying exactly where it is.

And as many people have noted, the flexibility is more on paper, since the drone carriers cannot easily afford to use the new flexible types of drones (unless they don't mind doing zero-to-no damage).

It's not a question of the Dom having been reduced. It's a question of many of the other battleships having been boosted in relation. This screws up balance.

This is *great* for all other battleships that have drone bay, except Dom. Geddon is the biggest winner here, having the same drone output as the Dom now, but it's not the only one.

You can consider it a Dom nerf or a Geddon (etc) boost, however you want to look at it. But if you posit that battleships were balanced before, this breaks that balance.

9000 grid vs 16500 grid, less lowslots, same number of drones. Balanced, not.

The number of drones I have in my drone bay don't really matter that much, when I can only use just as many of them as the Geddon can (and it has vastly better combat stats).

Note that the Geddon isn't the only relatively unbalanced ship here (wrt Dom), it's just the easiest example because the differences in grid etc are so absolutely huge.

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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Originally by: jamesw

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How is it a nerf to the drone carriers when they:
a) get more waves of drones.

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That does not apply to all drone carriers, but yes that is a small improvement.

Originally by: jamesw

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b) get more flexible and more damaging drone options.

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More damaging? I must have missed something, to me it seems that the damage is staying exactly where it is.

And as many people have noted, the flexibility is more on paper, since the drone carriers cannot easily afford to use the new flexible types of drones (unless they don't mind doing zero-to-no damage).

It's not a question of the Dom having been reduced. It's a question of many of the other battleships having been boosted in relation. This screws up balance.

This is *great* for all other battleships that have drone bay, except Dom. Geddon is the biggest winner here, having the same drone output as the Dom now, but it's not the only one.

You can consider it a Dom nerf or a Geddon (etc) boost, however you want to look at it. But if you posit that battleships were balanced before, this breaks that balance.

9000 grid vs 16500 grid, less lowslots, same number of drones. Balanced, not.

The number of drones I have in my drone bay don't really matter that much, when I can only use just as many of them as the Geddon can (and it has vastly better combat stats).

Note that the Geddon isn't the only relatively unbalanced ship here (wrt Dom), it's just the easiest example because the differences in grid etc are so absolutely huge.

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 02/11/2005 13:08:30

Originally by: jamesw

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I was referring to sentries as a more damaging option. (someone calced thermal sentries @ 750dps?)

Geddon: drone numbers halved, but damage remains the same. the drone "output" as you call it is the same.

Domi: drone numbers 33%, damage remains the same. (50% dmg bonus remember), therefore "output" is the same, but "options" are more (15 drones ie 3 waves to choose from).

add to that a domi gank+tank / gank+jam setup, and it will be an even fight.

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Re: sentries, yeah I forgot those. Yes, correct, those will be interesting. But again, anyone can use them.

As for Dom vs Geddon, I'll just have to say I disagree and see the Geddon coming out significantly ahead in this. But I guess the final arbiter will be what the new flavor of the month is after this goes live, we'll see

I'm not claiming we're talking about huge nerfs here. But I do feel that the drone-based ships aren't getting nearly as much out of this deal than other ships are, and am a bit worried about balence issues.

Now, taking down the Ishtar a peg may be a good idea. But the Dom (and Vexor) do worry me a bit. We'll see.

Added: if the drone carrier ships were to get some bonuses regarding the upcoming drone modules, I think that might well balance things out and keep them proper "drone ships" (instead of "ships with slightly better drone abilities).

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Originally by: Alex Harumichi

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Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 02/11/2005 13:08:30

Originally by: jamesw

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I was referring to sentries as a more damaging option. (someone calced thermal sentries @ 750dps?)

Geddon: drone numbers halved, but damage remains the same. the drone "output" as you call it is the same.

Domi: drone numbers 33%, damage remains the same. (50% dmg bonus remember), therefore "output" is the same, but "options" are more (15 drones ie 3 waves to choose from).

add to that a domi gank+tank / gank+jam setup, and it will be an even fight.

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Re: sentries, yeah I forgot those. Yes, correct, those will be interesting. But again, anyone can use them.

As for Dom vs Geddon, I'll just have to say I disagree and see the Geddon coming out significantly ahead in this. But I guess the final arbiter will be what the new flavor of the month is after this goes live, we'll see

I'm not claiming we're talking about huge nerfs here. But I do feel that the drone-based ships aren't getting nearly as much out of this deal than other ships are, and am a bit worried about balence issues.

Now, taking down the Ishtar a peg may be a good idea. But the Dom (and Vexor) do worry me a bit. We'll see.

Added: if the drone carrier ships were to get some bonuses regarding the upcoming drone modules, I think that might well balance things out and keep them proper "drone ships" (instead of "ships with slightly better drone abilities).

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Then you've been deceived if that is clear to you, because it is untrue. Only damage drones have more 'strength', thus my entire complaint. Your little example of 6 turrets with ECM drones, most other ships can do much better, as a Dominix is just as good with ECM drones as any other ship that can field 5 drones, and they get way better other bonuses, like more damage, or tracking, or 8 guns instead of 6, or more cap, etc, etc, etc... they all get something, Dominix gets stronger drones, if you use ECM drones, you dont get stronger drones even though you're supposed to... thats the ENTIRE PROBLEM (sorry for shout ><).

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Originally by: Tuxford

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You didn't read the dev blog at all did you. I said I would give those ships that get drone control bonuses a hitpoint bonus. Most likely 10% per level. It's still not as many hitpoint as it was but it's not that worse. And having fewer tougher drones has the added advantage of not being taken out with one smartbomb.

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Then you've been deceived if that is clear to you, because it is untrue. Only damage drones have more 'strength', thus my entire complaint. Your little example of 6 turrets with ECM drones, most other ships can do much better, as a Dominix is just as good with ECM drones as any other ship that can field 5 drones, and they get way better other bonuses, like more damage, or tracking, or 8 guns instead of 6, or more cap, etc, etc, etc... they all get something, Dominix gets stronger drones, if you use ECM drones, you dont get stronger drones even though you're supposed to... thats the ENTIRE PROBLEM (sorry for shout ><).

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Originally by: Tuxford

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You didn't read the dev blog at all did you. I said I would give those ships that get drone control bonuses a hitpoint bonus. Most likely 10% per level. It's still not as many hitpoint as it was but it's not that worse. And having fewer tougher drones has the added advantage of not being taken out with one smartbomb.

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Quote:

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This very much offsets the relatively small dmg loss over another pilot when you use one of the new drones as opposed to a traditional drone.

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50% is small?!? What in the hell do you consider large then??

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Quote:

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This very much offsets the relatively small dmg loss over another pilot when you use one of the new drones as opposed to a traditional drone.

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50% is small?!? What in the hell do you consider large then??

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Assuming Drones-5, DI-5... If a Megathron uses a Webbing drone, they lose X amount of DPS. If a Dominix uses a Webbing drone, they lose 1.5* X amount of DPS, where X = (2*Current Drone DPS). That is my entire complaint, which Tux still hasn't even mentioned he knows the issue exists.

(1.5*X) is 50% more than (X)

They dont SAY you lose 50% more damage using the new drones, because people would see that and complain about it being wrong. It is a hidden attribute of the workings of the system that you have to work out on your own to see.

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Assuming Drones-5, DI-5... If a Megathron uses a Webbing drone, they lose X amount of DPS. If a Dominix uses a Webbing drone, they lose 1.5* X amount of DPS, where X = (2*Current Drone DPS). That is my entire complaint, which Tux still hasn't even mentioned he knows the issue exists.

(1.5*X) is 50% more than (X)

They dont SAY you lose 50% more damage using the new drones, because people would see that and complain about it being wrong. It is a hidden attribute of the workings of the system that you have to work out on your own to see.

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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No, what I'm saying is... If Joe Blow (with the same skills as me) uses web drones, he does less damage, but if I use Web drones, I do more less damage (if ya follow that). This isn't due to me specializing in using drones offencively, it's because I fly a Dominix.

*is gonna smash something if he has to explain this again*

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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No, what I'm saying is... If Joe Blow (with the same skills as me) uses web drones, he does less damage, but if I use Web drones, I do more less damage (if ya follow that). This isn't due to me specializing in using drones offencively, it's because I fly a Dominix.

*is gonna smash something if he has to explain this again*

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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No. I want to keep the +50% efficacy of drones that the Dominix currently has. *smashes something as he had to explain it again*

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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No. I want to keep the +50% efficacy of drones that the Dominix currently has. *smashes something as he had to explain it again*

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Yes, but the Dominix has to give up more to use them than anyone else. They currently get 15 drones, they have to give up 3 to use a new drone, everyone else has to give up 1-2. *smashes more stuff as he had to explain it again*


*smashes stuff all over*

Here is an explanation by analogy.... Say they put a new module in game, it takes up a high slot, and 2 missile hardpoints, and warp scrambles someone from 100km. But if you happen to fly a Raven, it takes up 3 missile hardpoints instead of 2. Don't you think Raven pilots would (rightfully) complain?

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Yes, but the Dominix has to give up more to use them than anyone else. They currently get 15 drones, they have to give up 3 to use a new drone, everyone else has to give up 1-2. *smashes more stuff as he had to explain it again*


*smashes stuff all over*

Here is an explanation by analogy.... Say they put a new module in game, it takes up a high slot, and 2 missile hardpoints, and warp scrambles someone from 100km. But if you happen to fly a Raven, it takes up 3 missile hardpoints instead of 2. Don't you think Raven pilots would (rightfully) complain?

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Originally by: Soulita

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1)
Drone changes mean improvements for drone capabilities for all ships currently not mainly designed as drone carriers since they get advantage of being able to use the new drone types as well as the drone carriers. Actually none drone carriers can take advantage of the new drone types much better since they dont have to rely on the drones for damage output - they have guns/launchers for that

This means drone carriers loose out compared to the other ships.

2)
Also by using 5 instead of 15 drones (in case of dominix) each drone that gets killed means you loose 1/5th instead of 1/15th of damage output. Whereas other non drone carrier ships loose 1/5th instead of 1/10th(or less) of the damage (of their drones)

This means drone carriers loose out even more compared to other ships.


Again - if the drone changes are not meant as a drone carrier nerf then both of these points have to be adressed in a way that is fair to the drone carriers.

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Originally by: Soulita

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1)
Drone changes mean improvements for drone capabilities for all ships currently not mainly designed as drone carriers since they get advantage of being able to use the new drone types as well as the drone carriers. Actually none drone carriers can take advantage of the new drone types much better since they dont have to rely on the drones for damage output - they have guns/launchers for that

This means drone carriers loose out compared to the other ships.

2)
Also by using 5 instead of 15 drones (in case of dominix) each drone that gets killed means you loose 1/5th instead of 1/15th of damage output. Whereas other non drone carrier ships loose 1/5th instead of 1/10th(or less) of the damage (of their drones)

This means drone carriers loose out even more compared to other ships.


Again - if the drone changes are not meant as a drone carrier nerf then both of these points have to be adressed in a way that is fair to the drone carriers.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Its a choice that if taken hurts drone carrier users more then other BS users, since other BS users have turrets/launchers to deal their main damage (as I pointed out). By choosing to use non damage dealing drones drone carrier users loose their main BS bonus which with the new changes is drone damage bonus.
So not only is it a nerf to drone carriers that (at least solo) cant use the new drone types realy, but also its absurd that drone carriers should benefit from the new drones the least.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Its a choice that if taken hurts drone carrier users more then other BS users, since other BS users have turrets/launchers to deal their main damage (as I pointed out). By choosing to use non damage dealing drones drone carrier users loose their main BS bonus which with the new changes is drone damage bonus.
So not only is it a nerf to drone carriers that (at least solo) cant use the new drone types realy, but also its absurd that drone carriers should benefit from the new drones the least.

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Originally by: Olivin

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Originally by: jamesw

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Drone carriers lose NOTHING they cannot already do in the current system, they get more options too. Non drone carriers get a plethora of options to try, should they want to. As a few have mentioned in this thread, drones are a primary weapon for drone carriers. Thats right, and a weapon does damage. A web, or a multispec is not a primary weapon, so drone carriers do not need a boost or bonus on those.

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I am not following you. Drone carriers using drones as their primary weapon. So, what do you think drone carriers using their mid and high slots for? Do you really think that I will drop my heavy NOS's or full rack of multispecs in order to "try" five pathetic nos and ew drones? Please, give us a break. Also, I prefer to deal with 2-5 strong drones, instead of 15 somewhat weaker drones. You know, you do need find, lock, web and shoot at each individual drone. So, sorry to burst your bubble here, but 15 weaker drones a lot better than 5 stronger drones.

Olivin

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Originally by: Olivin

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Originally by: jamesw

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Drone carriers lose NOTHING they cannot already do in the current system, they get more options too. Non drone carriers get a plethora of options to try, should they want to. As a few have mentioned in this thread, drones are a primary weapon for drone carriers. Thats right, and a weapon does damage. A web, or a multispec is not a primary weapon, so drone carriers do not need a boost or bonus on those.

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I am not following you. Drone carriers using drones as their primary weapon. So, what do you think drone carriers using their mid and high slots for? Do you really think that I will drop my heavy NOS's or full rack of multispecs in order to "try" five pathetic nos and ew drones? Please, give us a break. Also, I prefer to deal with 2-5 strong drones, instead of 15 somewhat weaker drones. You know, you do need find, lock, web and shoot at each individual drone. So, sorry to burst your bubble here, but 15 weaker drones a lot better than 5 stronger drones.

Olivin

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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You are right, they aren't being nerfed (in that respect, they are getting some small nerfs here and there which sucks, but we generally havn't complained too much about). HOWEVER... all the other ships are getting a boost that the Dominix isn't getting, as they have to stick with their current drones to maintain their current primary weapon.

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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You are right, they aren't being nerfed (in that respect, they are getting some small nerfs here and there which sucks, but we generally havn't complained too much about). HOWEVER... all the other ships are getting a boost that the Dominix isn't getting, as they have to stick with their current drones to maintain their current primary weapon.

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Okay, now I have no idea WTH you are talking about... How are drones being made into a better primary weapon (especially one so much better that they have significantly less need to fit GUNS on their ship???)? They do the same (or less) damage as before O.o.

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Okay, now I have no idea WTH you are talking about... How are drones being made into a better primary weapon (especially one so much better that they have significantly less need to fit GUNS on their ship???)? They do the same (or less) damage as before O.o.

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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I've never lost a drone to an enemy smartbomb (a couple while screwing around with corpmates).

I'm not getting more damage, I'm getting less (12.6 vs 13).

I get small fraction more HPs (5%), 31.5 for all drones in hold+field instead of 30, if you count all drones in hold (which is assuming I don't use any of this 'versatility bonus' and thus if you are arguing that HPs of my drones stays the same, you cannot also use the versatility argument), but a good deal less (20%) if you count those in field (10.5 drones worth of hitpoints in field instead of 13). So I still don't see where this idea that they're being made so much better they have a significant reduction in need for guns comes from. They are generally staying the same, or getting worse, thus would have a greater need to fit a standard BS setup of guns (which they can't very well).


HP = (50% bonus assuming its a flat 50% and not based on DI level in which case I lose more, + 40% Domi bonus)

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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I've never lost a drone to an enemy smartbomb (a couple while screwing around with corpmates).

I'm not getting more damage, I'm getting less (12.6 vs 13).

I get small fraction more HPs (5%), 31.5 for all drones in hold+field instead of 30, if you count all drones in hold (which is assuming I don't use any of this 'versatility bonus' and thus if you are arguing that HPs of my drones stays the same, you cannot also use the versatility argument), but a good deal less (20%) if you count those in field (10.5 drones worth of hitpoints in field instead of 13). So I still don't see where this idea that they're being made so much better they have a significant reduction in need for guns comes from. They are generally staying the same, or getting worse, thus would have a greater need to fit a standard BS setup of guns (which they can't very well).


HP = (50% bonus assuming its a flat 50% and not based on DI level in which case I lose more, + 40% Domi bonus)

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Originally by: Rex Martell

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I am not going to attack your Mathematical skills.

However on this occasion they are alittle askew.

50% of Shields +
50% of Armour +
50% of Structure = 50% of drone hp not 150%

There is a significant drop is surviability.

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Originally by: Rex Martell

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I am not going to attack your Mathematical skills.

However on this occasion they are alittle askew.

50% of Shields +
50% of Armour +
50% of Structure = 50% of drone hp not 150%

There is a significant drop is surviability.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 07/11/2005 11:44:03
ôOverall HP Drop: There are less drones to target and kill. (how often does this happen at present?)ö
Its not as bad as people think as with faster drones its going to be harder to hit the drones and the 75% HP boost means the overall HP drop is not as bad as people think.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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Edited by: Pottsey on 07/11/2005 11:44:03
ôOverall HP Drop: There are less drones to target and kill. (how often does this happen at present?)ö
Its not as bad as people think as with faster drones its going to be harder to hit the drones and the 75% HP boost means the overall HP drop is not as bad as people think.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Devblog says in case of dominix damagewise:
5 drones = 15 drones (with droneskills (old ones) and BS skills maxed)
5 drones = 12.6 drones (with Gal Bs lvl4 and drone interfacing 4)

If these numbers didnt change your statement about the damage is wrong. And the longer range will only be useful if the drone bugs get fixed (as we both hope they will be)

Also I was talking about the hitpoints as you know by reading not only my answer, but also the quote it referred too.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Devblog says in case of dominix damagewise:
5 drones = 15 drones (with droneskills (old ones) and BS skills maxed)
5 drones = 12.6 drones (with Gal Bs lvl4 and drone interfacing 4)

If these numbers didnt change your statement about the damage is wrong. And the longer range will only be useful if the drone bugs get fixed (as we both hope they will be)

Also I was talking about the hitpoints as you know by reading not only my answer, but also the quote it referred too.

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Originally by: Meridius

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Originally by: jamesw

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On Smartbombs:

Drones currently last ~2 cycles of a large smartbomb. thats 20 seconds. Thats around 40 seconds to lose all your drones in a Domi.

Assuming drones get a 50% boost to hp, include the drone hitpoint skill @ 5, (we are at 75% boost now), and then 50% hp from the battleship skill (possible). You have 75% minimum increase, and possibly 125% increase, as well as 3 waves.

Each wave will go from surviving 2 smartbomb attacks to 4, possibly 5 (at 125%), or around 40 - 50 seconds. Add *two* more drone waves following that (instead of one), and you have 120 - 150 seconds, (2+ minutes) of drones shooting at the enemy.

That is more enough time to kill some BS targets, and certainly gives drone users a fighting chance vs smartbombs.

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If you're in a Domi just drain the crap out of them, smartbombs eat a lot of cap

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Originally by: Meridius

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Originally by: jamesw

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On Smartbombs:

Drones currently last ~2 cycles of a large smartbomb. thats 20 seconds. Thats around 40 seconds to lose all your drones in a Domi.

Assuming drones get a 50% boost to hp, include the drone hitpoint skill @ 5, (we are at 75% boost now), and then 50% hp from the battleship skill (possible). You have 75% minimum increase, and possibly 125% increase, as well as 3 waves.

Each wave will go from surviving 2 smartbomb attacks to 4, possibly 5 (at 125%), or around 40 - 50 seconds. Add *two* more drone waves following that (instead of one), and you have 120 - 150 seconds, (2+ minutes) of drones shooting at the enemy.

That is more enough time to kill some BS targets, and certainly gives drone users a fighting chance vs smartbombs.

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If you're in a Domi just drain the crap out of them, smartbombs eat a lot of cap

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Originally by: Dukath

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So we get to use fewer drones that can fly further away?
Yeah right, i send my drones to a battleship 50km away, wait 50 seconds before they start doing damage. Ooops, smartbombed but aha! thanks to this 'boost' i got another wave. Wait 50 seconds... boom but i got another wave... wait 50 seconds...

Sure your drones will survive longer, in this (exaggerated example even more than 3 minutes, but 90% of the time they will be flying towards the target not doing any damage.

If CCP really wants to remove lag with drones, why not start with removing collision? This will fix 2 things already.
1) lag since a lot less calculations need to be mode.
2) drones being stuck on each other.

Sure drones will be able to fly through roids and stations but then missiles can do it too. It would only be fair.

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Originally by: Dukath

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So we get to use fewer drones that can fly further away?
Yeah right, i send my drones to a battleship 50km away, wait 50 seconds before they start doing damage. Ooops, smartbombed but aha! thanks to this 'boost' i got another wave. Wait 50 seconds... boom but i got another wave... wait 50 seconds...

Sure your drones will survive longer, in this (exaggerated example even more than 3 minutes, but 90% of the time they will be flying towards the target not doing any damage.

If CCP really wants to remove lag with drones, why not start with removing collision? This will fix 2 things already.
1) lag since a lot less calculations need to be mode.
2) drones being stuck on each other.

Sure drones will be able to fly through roids and stations but then missiles can do it too. It would only be fair.

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Now imagine that Moros deploying ECM drones....

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Originally by: Kaell Meynn

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Now imagine that Moros deploying ECM drones....

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Originally by: Ysolde Xen

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Having had a play with regular (i.e. none of the new funky ones) on SiSi I have to say I am disappointed. They aren't lasting noticably longer and with the reduced drone bays the damage output in a fight isn't the same. I compared how long it'd take 2 scouts to kill a random NPC rat compared to 3 of the same drone types on TQ vs the same NPC rat type (I was in my probe at the time) and sad to say the 2 new style took longer and one of them nearly died compared with the 3 old style which had one suffer a bit of armour damage and overall take less time.

This was not an indepth theoretial mathematical study, it was in-the-field experience in a combat situation which, to my mind, shows more about what it will be like in the field in a combat situation than a chart in a forum.

I sincerely hope the new drones get more of a boost to compensate for the reduced numbers.

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Originally by: Ysolde Xen

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Having had a play with regular (i.e. none of the new funky ones) on SiSi I have to say I am disappointed. They aren't lasting noticably longer and with the reduced drone bays the damage output in a fight isn't the same. I compared how long it'd take 2 scouts to kill a random NPC rat compared to 3 of the same drone types on TQ vs the same NPC rat type (I was in my probe at the time) and sad to say the 2 new style took longer and one of them nearly died compared with the 3 old style which had one suffer a bit of armour damage and overall take less time.

This was not an indepth theoretial mathematical study, it was in-the-field experience in a combat situation which, to my mind, shows more about what it will be like in the field in a combat situation than a chart in a forum.

I sincerely hope the new drones get more of a boost to compensate for the reduced numbers.

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