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 Agaille    |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:02:00 -
[1] Edited by: Agaille on 01/11/2005 12:07:01 (Part 1 of 3) After having hanged around this forum for a while and read some threads that in my eye seem to dominate the topics, I would like to add my 0.05 ISK on the topic of carebearing versus chestpoppers/griefers. As another forum reader so elegantly put it: CCP wanted people to go explore deep space so they created EXODUS. Newbies followed the intentions of CCP and went exploring. Newbies got greeted by an array of chestpoppers/gate campers/mining barge gankers/trigger happy alliances claiming "He is a spy"/pirates podding people because they can. Newbies learned their lesson and never left Empire space again (You really don't need to be an Einstein to figure that out). Newbies turn carebears (They lost once so they will probably loose again). Carebears are putting a massive stress on servers becourse they seek security in numbers. CCP is having massive server load on Empire servers at the same time forum posters from time to time write thread on ôwhy is 0.0 empty?ö At the same time I see PvP'ers condemning Carebears because they in their eyes are boring and don't wanna go out, get podded and loose all their implants with the sole reason to entertain the PvPers. In fact: Every time a forum poster even remotely defends what theoretically can be interpreted as borderlining to carebearing we have hordes of other forum posters doing massive flames on said person that it most of all resembles a BBQ in the making. I don't have any official statistics to back up my following claim but a quick look at map overview I claim that there are more people seeking security in Empire space than exploring Deep space atm which translated to this: Although PvPers are the most vocal debaters on this forum seeking every opportunity to ridicule peaceful people contributing to the economy both in game and RL. Carebears are making up the silent majority in the game = Carebears through their subscription fees are actually paying for the majority of the CCP upkeep. I propose that CCP introduce the following skill books: "Skill of Neutrality" (aka the skill of carebearing) "Skill of advanced Neutrality" (aka carebearing with a vengeance) "Skill of Neutrality" Basically this skill will create a forcefield around your character and thus your ship that will reverse effectively any PvP weapon damage. Level 1 = 100% weapon damage applied to you will be bounced back on the attacker. Level 5 = 500% weapon damage will be bounced back on the attacker. This forcefield will work both ways so if you as a carebear should be so stupid to apply weapon damage to any other player then you will in effect shoot yourself with the damage multiplier effect from this skill included. This skill will only work against other players and not NPC pirates. Should a player initiate an attack on a carebear with this skill then a warning sign would pop first to alert the offender of the reprecautions. "Skill of advanced neutrality" OK.. some idiot griefer has decided to attack inspite of the carebear having the "Skill of Neutrality" and eventually his ship will blow up from his own damage. This skill determines the chance of being podded as well as a result of excess damage from the final blow. Level 1 = 20% chance. Level 5 = 100% chance of podding yourself from attacking a carebear and dying from your own damage. This skill requires Level 5 of "Skill of Neutrality" |
 Agaille Gallente Holographic MindWare Constructions |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:02:00 -
[2] Edited by: Agaille on 01/11/2005 12:07:01 (Part 1 of 3) After having hanged around this forum for a while and read some threads that in my eye seem to dominate the topics, I would like to add my 0.05 ISK on the topic of carebearing versus chestpoppers/griefers. As another forum reader so elegantly put it: CCP wanted people to go explore deep space so they created EXODUS. Newbies followed the intentions of CCP and went exploring. Newbies got greeted by an array of chestpoppers/gate campers/mining barge gankers/trigger happy alliances claiming "He is a spy"/pirates podding people because they can. Newbies learned their lesson and never left Empire space again (You really don't need to be an Einstein to figure that out). Newbies turn carebears (They lost once so they will probably loose again). Carebears are putting a massive stress on servers becourse they seek security in numbers. CCP is having massive server load on Empire servers at the same time forum posters from time to time write thread on ôwhy is 0.0 empty?ö At the same time I see PvP'ers condemning Carebears because they in their eyes are boring and don't wanna go out, get podded and loose all their implants with the sole reason to entertain the PvPers. In fact: Every time a forum poster even remotely defends what theoretically can be interpreted as borderlining to carebearing we have hordes of other forum posters doing massive flames on said person that it most of all resembles a BBQ in the making. I don't have any official statistics to back up my following claim but a quick look at map overview I claim that there are more people seeking security in Empire space than exploring Deep space atm which translated to this: Although PvPers are the most vocal debaters on this forum seeking every opportunity to ridicule peaceful people contributing to the economy both in game and RL. Carebears are making up the silent majority in the game = Carebears through their subscription fees are actually paying for the majority of the CCP upkeep. I propose that CCP introduce the following skill books: "Skill of Neutrality" (aka the skill of carebearing) "Skill of advanced Neutrality" (aka carebearing with a vengeance) "Skill of Neutrality" Basically this skill will create a forcefield around your character and thus your ship that will reverse effectively any PvP weapon damage. Level 1 = 100% weapon damage applied to you will be bounced back on the attacker. Level 5 = 500% weapon damage will be bounced back on the attacker. This forcefield will work both ways so if you as a carebear should be so stupid to apply weapon damage to any other player then you will in effect shoot yourself with the damage multiplier effect from this skill included. This skill will only work against other players and not NPC pirates. Should a player initiate an attack on a carebear with this skill then a warning sign would pop first to alert the offender of the reprecautions. "Skill of advanced neutrality" OK.. some idiot griefer has decided to attack inspite of the carebear having the "Skill of Neutrality" and eventually his ship will blow up from his own damage. This skill determines the chance of being podded as well as a result of excess damage from the final blow. Level 1 = 20% chance. Level 5 = 100% chance of podding yourself from attacking a carebear and dying from your own damage. This skill requires Level 5 of "Skill of Neutrality" |
 Agaille |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:04:00 -
[3] Edited by: Agaille on 01/11/2005 12:07:12 (Part 2 of 3) Having read a thread about how difficult is is for a pirate to go "good guy" again I also propose the following skills: "Skill of personal faction" (aka anti-carebearing) "Skill of advanced personal faction" (aka anti-carebearing) The deal is that perhaps in the future a carebear would want to explore PvP the way it was intended to be explored when they have had the time to train the nescessary skills to survive more than 1 jump into 0.4 and below. The purpose of every level of "Skill of personal faction" is to neutralise an according level from "Skill of Neutrality". The purpose of every level of "Skill of advanced personal faction" is to neutralise an according level from "Skill of advanced Neutrality". Effectively you can start a new character, train the carebear skills, untrain them by training the carebear neutraliser skills, but since skills to my knowledge can't be untrained (well some exploiting with an inferior drone and a friend podding you and removing the desired skills) then you are stuck with with being fair game like everyone else. You are required in advance to have a Neutrality skill trained before you neutralise it with these skills Nothing comes for free and carebear skills should be no exception. It is obvious that what you deprive others to do towards you, you are equally deprived to do towards others. I have some suggestions for some additional Carebear penalties: -In the game you can set standings from -10 to +10. Since carebears seek no conflict with others then for each level of the carebear skills your minimum allowed set standing towards others are raised by 2 = Level 1 of "Skill of neutrality" and you can maximum set a negative standing of -8 towards another player. If you go all the way and have both neutrality skills trained to level 5, this effectively means that you have set the personal standing to +10 towards everyone else. -You can no longer be attacked by pirates or anyone else for that matter. Therefore it is only fair that you are no longer allowed to place a bounty on anyone as long as you have an active neutrality skill. - Suggestions have been made that ore thiefs should become flagged as PvP enabled. Carebears with neutrality skills should be aware though that neutrality skills works in such situations as well, so attacking a PvP enabled ore thief will still be the same as attacking yourself. -I haven't yet decided if the carebear skills should have Leadership skill features as well. I am open to suggestions. -Should a carebear become a CEO then his personal Neutrality skills will be deployed to every corp member. Members are free to train those skills to a higher level than the CEO in order to get the added personal benefits, but you can never have lesser skills than those deployed to you by the CEO. ** Advanced alterations ** POSes are to my knowledge thought of as having something to defend in PvP, but nevertheless I feel that POSes and outposts should be allowed for neutrality corps due to the fact that carebears should be allowed access to produce T2 as well... but with some alterations in order to avoid exploits. I will happily admit that I am no expert at all in regards to the inner workings of POSes and outposts. I have yet to see one myself and yes you guessed it: I got ganked on my way out to 0.0 space in research for this article, but here goes: -A neutrality corp is only allowed to enter an alliance consisting of 100% neutrality corps. I have speculated if entering an alliance should be disallowed all together. Suggestions are appreciated. -The neutrality skill of the CEO will be applied to POSes and outposts as well. Neutrality corps are allowed to build weapon POSes just like everyone else but in the event that such weapons should actually fire upon travellers passing by, the damage will be redirected and applied to a random structure itself. If you want to find a quick way of killing a Dreadnought then have it attack a Neutrality POS. |
Agaille Gallente Holographic MindWare Constructions |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:04:00 -
[4] Edited by: Agaille on 01/11/2005 12:07:12 (Part 2 of 3) Having read a thread about how difficult is is for a pirate to go "good guy" again I also propose the following skills: "Skill of personal faction" (aka anti-carebearing) "Skill of advanced personal faction" (aka anti-carebearing) The deal is that perhaps in the future a carebear would want to explore PvP the way it was intended to be explored when they have had the time to train the nescessary skills to survive more than 1 jump into 0.4 and below. The purpose of every level of "Skill of personal faction" is to neutralise an according level from "Skill of Neutrality". The purpose of every level of "Skill of advanced personal faction" is to neutralise an according level from "Skill of advanced Neutrality". Effectively you can start a new character, train the carebear skills, untrain them by training the carebear neutraliser skills, but since skills to my knowledge can't be untrained (well some exploiting with an inferior drone and a friend podding you and removing the desired skills) then you are stuck with with being fair game like everyone else. You are required in advance to have a Neutrality skill trained before you neutralise it with these skills Nothing comes for free and carebear skills should be no exception. It is obvious that what you deprive others to do towards you, you are equally deprived to do towards others. I have some suggestions for some additional Carebear penalties: -In the game you can set standings from -10 to +10. Since carebears seek no conflict with others then for each level of the carebear skills your minimum allowed set standing towards others are raised by 2 = Level 1 of "Skill of neutrality" and you can maximum set a negative standing of -8 towards another player. If you go all the way and have both neutrality skills trained to level 5, this effectively means that you have set the personal standing to +10 towards everyone else. -You can no longer be attacked by pirates or anyone else for that matter. Therefore it is only fair that you are no longer allowed to place a bounty on anyone as long as you have an active neutrality skill. - Suggestions have been made that ore thiefs should become flagged as PvP enabled. Carebears with neutrality skills should be aware though that neutrality skills works in such situations as well, so attacking a PvP enabled ore thief will still be the same as attacking yourself. -I haven't yet decided if the carebear skills should have Leadership skill features as well. I am open to suggestions. -Should a carebear become a CEO then his personal Neutrality skills will be deployed to every corp member. Members are free to train those skills to a higher level than the CEO in order to get the added personal benefits, but you can never have lesser skills than those deployed to you by the CEO. ** Advanced alterations ** POSes are to my knowledge thought of as having something to defend in PvP, but nevertheless I feel that POSes and outposts should be allowed for neutrality corps due to the fact that carebears should be allowed access to produce T2 as well... but with some alterations in order to avoid exploits. I will happily admit that I am no expert at all in regards to the inner workings of POSes and outposts. I have yet to see one myself and yes you guessed it: I got ganked on my way out to 0.0 space in research for this article, but here goes: -A neutrality corp is only allowed to enter an alliance consisting of 100% neutrality corps. I have speculated if entering an alliance should be disallowed all together. Suggestions are appreciated. -The neutrality skill of the CEO will be applied to POSes and outposts as well. Neutrality corps are allowed to build weapon POSes just like everyone else but in the event that such weapons should actually fire upon travellers passing by, the damage will be redirected and applied to a random structure itself. If you want to find a quick way of killing a Dreadnought then have it attack a Neutrality POS. |
 Agaille |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:06:00 -
[5] Edited by: Agaille on 01/11/2005 12:07:26 (Part 3 of 3) -In order to avoid exploitation by using neutrality corps/carebears as spies in war then some sort of invisibility/cloaking of PvP enabled POSes/outposts is a "must have" Use a Covert Op ship to do it like CCP wants you to. The Neutrality skills was never intended as a ôLicense to spyö skill! -Neutrality corps can build outposts as well but in true Carebear style their outposts are mandatory to be open for ALL to enter! ** Final word ** Every time I read "Risk versus reward" on this forum I interpret it as "Don't change a system that works for me. I am having it right where I want it where I can pod just about any newbie that I set my mind on. Ironically they are the very ones that mined the ores that eventually build the ship that podded them. Isn't life great :)" Please take note that NPC pirates are still not covered by the Neutrality skills so a Carebear would still have to equip some firepower in order to stay safe. If it makes everyone feel any better then I wouldn't mind if CCP decided to bundle "extra attention" from NPC pirates as a consequence of training neutrality skills. Neutrality is no excuse to perform AFK playing and this could be another way of implementing ôRisk versus Rewardö. (atleast an NPC pirate will not grief you) I don't buy into the argument that Neutrality will be exploited by macro miners. Macros are a separate problem that has a separate solution and should be kept out of this discussion. Remember to report a macro miner so that CCP can ban them. It is as simple as that! There is nothing wrong with having carebears flying around. They contribute to the in game economy and CCP upkeep just as much as any other. Since this is just as much a game of economics as it is of PvP and apparently PvP has gotten a great deal of attention during the last expansions I think it is high time for some carebear love. Alternatively I would like a reduction in my subscription fee if my role in the community is to be target practice for bored chestpoppers that ultimately are to coward to seek a fair fight! If a reply to this thread should sound like ôGo play another gameö then please note that for every Carebear leaving this game your subscription is likely to be increased. Besides CCP owns this game. You on the other hand do not. I don't seek you to like me but if the PvPers solely were to pay for the new RAMSAN disk, this forum would experience ranting of unheard proportions. No, you certainly don't have to like me or my carebearing but please respect that whatever I pay in supcription, will save you some money in the end! It is in everyones interest to attract and keep new players: CCP needs the subcription fees to pay for upkeep and finance expansion packs. Carebears need new players becourse their prescense will expand the market and PvPers need new members to fill up the ranks in the alliance wars as well and then it is of no use that the recruit prospects canceled their accounts yesterday. Thanks in advance for reading all the way through this lengthy post. I am looking forward to reading constructive feedback to my idea (or perhaps an alternative system) I am aware that I am likely to have misunderstood the EVE game mechanics at some points thus making some of my suggestions imbalanced. I can't brag with the fact that I am a long term subscriper to EVE becourse I am not, but I do am a long term subscriber to MMORPGs in general so I know a game imbalance when I spot one. |
Agaille Gallente Holographic MindWare Constructions |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:06:00 -
[6] Edited by: Agaille on 01/11/2005 12:07:26 (Part 3 of 3) -In order to avoid exploitation by using neutrality corps/carebears as spies in war then some sort of invisibility/cloaking of PvP enabled POSes/outposts is a "must have" Use a Covert Op ship to do it like CCP wants you to. The Neutrality skills was never intended as a ôLicense to spyö skill! -Neutrality corps can build outposts as well but in true Carebear style their outposts are mandatory to be open for ALL to enter! ** Final word ** Every time I read "Risk versus reward" on this forum I interpret it as "Don't change a system that works for me. I am having it right where I want it where I can pod just about any newbie that I set my mind on. Ironically they are the very ones that mined the ores that eventually build the ship that podded them. Isn't life great :)" Please take note that NPC pirates are still not covered by the Neutrality skills so a Carebear would still have to equip some firepower in order to stay safe. If it makes everyone feel any better then I wouldn't mind if CCP decided to bundle "extra attention" from NPC pirates as a consequence of training neutrality skills. Neutrality is no excuse to perform AFK playing and this could be another way of implementing ôRisk versus Rewardö. (atleast an NPC pirate will not grief you) I don't buy into the argument that Neutrality will be exploited by macro miners. Macros are a separate problem that has a separate solution and should be kept out of this discussion. Remember to report a macro miner so that CCP can ban them. It is as simple as that! There is nothing wrong with having carebears flying around. They contribute to the in game economy and CCP upkeep just as much as any other. Since this is just as much a game of economics as it is of PvP and apparently PvP has gotten a great deal of attention during the last expansions I think it is high time for some carebear love. Alternatively I would like a reduction in my subscription fee if my role in the community is to be target practice for bored chestpoppers that ultimately are to coward to seek a fair fight! If a reply to this thread should sound like ôGo play another gameö then please note that for every Carebear leaving this game your subscription is likely to be increased. Besides CCP owns this game. You on the other hand do not. I don't seek you to like me but if the PvPers solely were to pay for the new RAMSAN disk, this forum would experience ranting of unheard proportions. No, you certainly don't have to like me or my carebearing but please respect that whatever I pay in supcription, will save you some money in the end! It is in everyones interest to attract and keep new players: CCP needs the subcription fees to pay for upkeep and finance expansion packs. Carebears need new players becourse their prescense will expand the market and PvPers need new members to fill up the ranks in the alliance wars as well and then it is of no use that the recruit prospects canceled their accounts yesterday. Thanks in advance for reading all the way through this lengthy post. I am looking forward to reading constructive feedback to my idea (or perhaps an alternative system) I am aware that I am likely to have misunderstood the EVE game mechanics at some points thus making some of my suggestions imbalanced. I can't brag with the fact that I am a long term subscriper to EVE becourse I am not, but I do am a long term subscriber to MMORPGs in general so I know a game imbalance when I spot one. |
 Rod Blaine |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:17:00 -
[7] I'll gladly pay 2 euros a month more if you leave the game. No, seriously, you cannot be serious about these ideas. I mean, I agree that both shooting and not-wanting-to-be-shot are equally viable playstyles, but the game has a certain base philosophy. That base philosophy is the setting in a universe of competition where you can meaningfully affect eachother. there is nor ever will be a way to prevent others from doing stuff you dont like done to yourself, period. That's like the number one rule of any suggestion you want to make with regard to Eve Online. _______________________________________________ Power to the players ! |
 Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:17:00 -
[8] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 01/11/2005 12:22:00 I'll gladly pay 2 euros a month more if you leave the game. No, seriously, you cannot be serious about these ideas. I mean, I agree that both shooting and not-wanting-to-be-shot are equally viable playstyles, but the game has a certain base philosophy. That base philosophy is the setting in a universe of competition where you can meaningfully affect eachother. there is nor ever will be a way to prevent others from doing stuff you dont like done to yourself, period. That's like the number one rule of any suggestion you want to make with regard to Eve Online. edit: oh, and thats not an opinion, it's fact. [center] Old blog |
Vanilla Frost |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:30:00 -
[9] Man Im glad im not the only person that agrees that this idea is just another way for a person to get away with whatever the hell they want. Listen imagine an ore thief with this skill, OK not only do they steal your **** but your probably gonna die for defending your assets, HAVE A NICE DAY!!! Creative is one thing but please try and bring the entire community into mind when you get a gfi(good f*cking idea). Then drink a twelve pack and write down your idea, the next day read it and if it looks good hung over at work then it probably is. |
 Vanilla Frost |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:30:00 -
[10] Man Im glad im not the only person that agrees that this idea is just another way for a person to get away with whatever the hell they want. Listen imagine an ore thief with this skill, OK not only do they steal your **** but your probably gonna die for defending your assets, HAVE A NICE DAY!!! Creative is one thing but please try and bring the entire community into mind when you get a gfi(good f*cking idea). Then drink a twelve pack and write down your idea, the next day read it and if it looks good hung over at work then it probably is. |
 Agaille |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:46:00 -
[11]
CPP can throw me out, and you can not and since I pay just as much as you do this is just as much my game as it is yours. See the "Go play another game" note.
Yes I am. If I write a 1914 wordcount post that is so big it needs to be split up in 3 parts then I seriously mean business.
As far as I can remember someone elsewhere on this forum expessed his oppinion that in his eyes CCP created EXODUS so that the players could venture out and build up deep space. Unfortunately the players took this as an invitation to blast away anything that that can be targeted. EVE has a unique feature in its size that in my oppinion actually enables the 2 different playstyles to find plenty of space to co-exist with each other. I would be happy to supply you with ships and stuff that you can use in your warfare which enables your corp and alliance to free up members that otherwise are busy mining away so they can join you at the battlefield. You do what you like best. I do what I like best. Everyone is happy.
Sometimes I praise myself lucky that I am not a Developer responsible of maintaining a game balance becourse I see it as a truely difficult job. My greatest appreciation goes to them and their efforts! However: Where there is a will there is a way. You apparently don't have it, which is OK becourse you don't need to have it... I'm fine with that as long as the developers get my point. |
Agaille Gallente Holographic MindWare Constructions |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:46:00 -
[12]
CPP can throw me out, and you can not and since I pay just as much as you do this is just as much my game as it is yours. See the "Go play another game" note.
Yes I am. If I write a 1914 wordcount post that is so big it needs to be split up in 3 parts then I seriously mean business.
As far as I can remember someone elsewhere on this forum expessed his oppinion that in his eyes CCP created EXODUS so that the players could venture out and build up deep space. Unfortunately the players took this as an invitation to blast away anything that that can be targeted. EVE has a unique feature in its size that in my oppinion actually enables the 2 different playstyles to find plenty of space to co-exist with each other. I would be happy to supply you with ships and stuff that you can use in your warfare which enables your corp and alliance to free up members that otherwise are busy mining away so they can join you at the battlefield. You do what you like best. I do what I like best. Everyone is happy.
Sometimes I praise myself lucky that I am not a Developer responsible of maintaining a game balance becourse I see it as a truely difficult job. My greatest appreciation goes to them and their efforts! However: Where there is a will there is a way. You apparently don't have it, which is OK becourse you don't need to have it... I'm fine with that as long as the developers get my point. |
Hunce |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:49:00 -
[13] --I'll gladly pay 2 euros a month more if you leave the game. Why is it that Agaille have to leave the game and not you ? --No, seriously, you cannot be serious about these ideas. Why not ? --I mean, I agree that both shooting and not-wanting-to-be-shot are equally viable playstyles, but the game has a certain base philosophy. And that brings it back to Agailles text, with a chance to PvP for those who want to do it and those who dont want to do it. --That base philosophy is the setting in a universe of competition where you can meaningfully affect eachother. And you dont think it would work with Agailles sugestion ? I really think it would. --there is nor ever will be a way to prevent others from doing stuff you dont like done to yourself, period. Thats where i dont agree with you, offcourse this can be avoided, on several ways, one of the ways is with this new skill book Agaille is writing about, another thing could be that PvP is only possible to others +/- x% of you skills points amount, that way, an elite char cant gank a noob. - this will only solve a few problems, but i belive together with Agail¦s sugestion it could work. --edit: oh, and thats not an opinion, it's fact. ehh no |
 Hunce |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:49:00 -
[14] --I'll gladly pay 2 euros a month more if you leave the game. Why is it that Agaille have to leave the game and not you ? --No, seriously, you cannot be serious about these ideas. Why not ? --I mean, I agree that both shooting and not-wanting-to-be-shot are equally viable playstyles, but the game has a certain base philosophy. And that brings it back to Agailles text, with a chance to PvP for those who want to do it and those who dont want to do it. --That base philosophy is the setting in a universe of competition where you can meaningfully affect eachother. And you dont think it would work with Agailles sugestion ? I really think it would. --there is nor ever will be a way to prevent others from doing stuff you dont like done to yourself, period. Thats where i dont agree with you, offcourse this can be avoided, on several ways, one of the ways is with this new skill book Agaille is writing about, another thing could be that PvP is only possible to others +/- x% of you skills points amount, that way, an elite char cant gank a noob. - this will only solve a few problems, but i belive together with Agail¦s sugestion it could work. --edit: oh, and thats not an opinion, it's fact. ehh no |
 theRaptor |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:52:00 -
[15] Learn to fight. I can do industrial work and fight. It's not hard. Or are you just incompetent? In fact what would make EVE better would be the complete removal of war avoidance devices (aka noob corps), because for every normal player avoinding combat, their are four pirate alts making money. And I heard the noise of thunder. And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him |
 theRaptor Caldari Caldari Provisions |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:52:00 -
[16] Learn to fight. I can do industrial work and fight. It's not hard. Or are you just incompetent? In fact what would make EVE better would be the complete removal of war avoidance devices (aka noob corps), because for every normal player avoinding combat, their are four pirate alts making money. I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide. |
Hunce |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:54:00 -
[17] The problem with a jettison, and ore thief is easy to solve, CCP "just" have to make it possible to make a jettison for corp, and/or for gang - That would stop the ore thief for good. |
Hunce |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:54:00 -
[18] The problem with a jettison, and ore thief is easy to solve, CCP "just" have to make it possible to make a jettison for corp, and/or for gang - That would stop the ore thief for good. |
Agaille |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:59:00 -
[19]
I see it this way: 1) Ore thief trains the Neutraily skill 2) Ore thief goes out stealing from a jet can 3) Ore thief gets PvP-enabled 4) Ore Thief will quicly realize that if he steals from a jet-can that belongs to a gang where one of its members did not train the Neutrality skill but did equip a gun and a warp scrampler then they are practically sitting ducks. 5) Ore thief gets rightfully blasted to hell and any attempt to defend themselves will result in self inflicted damage becourse of the neutrality skill. (Admit it: You gotta love the irony of it) I would be happy to recieve constructive feedback instead of the usual no-brainer "I found a tiny exploit possibility so lets scrap the whole concept all together!!!1one1" Please also note: It is damn difficult to come up with a Carebear penalty that involves an anti Ore thief game feature that hasn't even been implemented yet. As far as I am concerned, I want to see the Ore thief PvP-enabling in action first so I know what to relate to and not some rumors on the forums. |
Agaille Gallente Holographic MindWare Constructions |
Posted - 2005.11.01 12:59:00 -
[20]
I see it this way: 1) Ore thief trains the Neutraily skill 2) Ore thief goes out stealing from a jet can 3) Ore thief gets PvP-enabled 4) Ore Thief will quicly realize that if he steals from a jet-can that belongs to a gang where one of its members did not train the Neutrality skill but did equip a gun and a warp scrampler then they are practically sitting ducks. 5) Ore thief gets rightfully blasted to hell and any attempt to defend themselves will result in self inflicted damage becourse of the neutrality skill. (Admit it: You gotta love the irony of it) I would be happy to recieve constructive feedback instead of the usual no-brainer "I found a tiny exploit possibility so lets scrap the whole concept all together!!!1one1" Please also note: It is damn difficult to come up with a Carebear penalty that involves an anti Ore thief game feature that hasn't even been implemented yet. As far as I am concerned, I want to see the Ore thief PvP-enabling in action first so I know what to relate to and not some rumors on the forums. |
 Hunce |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:02:00 -
[21] If you want to do PvP do it with other people that have youre level - and get a fair fight with another char that also like PvP. Why do people that play eve for all the other aspects of the game be a target to a kids trigger happy finger. |
Hunce |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:02:00 -
[22] If you want to do PvP do it with other people that have youre level - and get a fair fight with another char that also like PvP. Why do people that play eve for all the other aspects of the game be a target to a kids trigger happy finger. |
Rod Blaine |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:10:00 -
[23] --edit: oh, and thats not an opinion, it's fact. ehh no eerh yes. Write CCP a mail, letter, petition or ******* business plan. Fact remains that CCP made this game based on meaningfull player interaction. Meanigfull player interaction resulting in player made content requires players to be able to influence eachother freely. Why would you be able to overcharge me for ships but I not able to extort you at a gate ? How are we going to be able to create and control space withtout the ability to force people to do or not do certain things. Eve is a game of competition and interaction. A pvp switch is not something fitting for it, and has been discussed 10-0 times already, always ending with CCP stating they will NEVER EVER allow people to not be open to pvp warfare. _______________________________________________ Power to the players ! |
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:10:00 -
[24] --edit: oh, and thats not an opinion, it's fact. ehh no eerh yes. Write CCP a mail, letter, petition or ******* business plan. Fact remains that CCP made this game based on meaningfull player interaction. Meanigfull player interaction resulting in player made content requires players to be able to influence eachother freely. Why would you be able to overcharge me for ships but I not able to extort you at a gate ? How are we going to be able to create and control space withtout the ability to force people to do or not do certain things. Eve is a game of competition and interaction. A pvp switch is not something fitting for it, and has been discussed 10-0 times already, always ending with CCP stating they will NEVER EVER allow people to not be open to pvp warfare. [center] Old blog |
Agaille |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:21:00 -
[25]
When I want to fight I log out and go play a different game that does a far better job at providing fight entertainment than EVE. When I want to play to challenge my mind with one of the most complicated and elaborated game economic featues available I log into EVE and then I can't be bothered with other players wanting my corpe floating around in space.
1) I must admit that I can't follow thus agree with your logic. 2) What about you try to start all over again with no rich main char to sponsor you. Could you please refer me to a corp that actually is open to totally new players that can't fly even a frig. Last corp I checked that had all the exiting activities happening, also had a minimum requirement of Mining Barge/Iteron 5/Battleship... That really sums up how much new players are appreciated by their community (aka experienced players) in EVE. Don't blame noobs for rallying up in noob corps becourse they are simply not welcome in the majority of the corps where all the "real" excitement is happening. |
Agaille Gallente Holographic MindWare Constructions |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:21:00 -
[26]
When I want to fight I log out and go play a different game that does a far better job at providing fight entertainment than EVE. When I want to play to challenge my mind with one of the most complicated and elaborated game economic featues available I log into EVE and then I can't be bothered with other players wanting my corpe floating around in space.
1) I must admit that I can't follow thus agree with your logic. 2) What about you try to start all over again with no rich main char to sponsor you. Could you please refer me to a corp that actually is open to totally new players that can't fly even a frig. Last corp I checked that had all the exiting activities happening, also had a minimum requirement of Mining Barge/Iteron 5/Battleship... That really sums up how much new players are appreciated by their community (aka experienced players) in EVE. Don't blame noobs for rallying up in noob corps becourse they are simply not welcome in the majority of the corps where all the "real" excitement is happening. |
 Hunce |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:31:00 -
[27] Meanigfull player interaction.. This can be defined in many ways... And i think it should be open to talk about, and thats great agaille opened this. The rumors on the forums have been that ore thiefs would be target as PvP players, but this not good enough if you ask me. - It will just open up for more PvP, on players that dont want the PvP part. (Thats not meanigfull player interaction) CCP please do the jettision, as jettison to Corp and jettison to gang - That will end the discussion about the ore thiefes. And any speculation on raids on miners in "secure" areas. It will not be possible to charge you overprice just to introduce a PvP part for those who like PvP and a PvP free part for those who dont want it. Prices are in fact dropped a lot lately... and it will go up and down due to supply/demand. |
Hunce |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:31:00 -
[28] Meanigfull player interaction.. This can be defined in many ways... And i think it should be open to talk about, and thats great agaille opened this. The rumors on the forums have been that ore thiefs would be target as PvP players, but this not good enough if you ask me. - It will just open up for more PvP, on players that dont want the PvP part. (Thats not meanigfull player interaction) CCP please do the jettision, as jettison to Corp and jettison to gang - That will end the discussion about the ore thiefes. And any speculation on raids on miners in "secure" areas. It will not be possible to charge you overprice just to introduce a PvP part for those who like PvP and a PvP free part for those who dont want it. Prices are in fact dropped a lot lately... and it will go up and down due to supply/demand. |
 Galifardeua |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:33:00 -
[29] About the skills: They are too powerful and the anticarebear skills make no sense, they would create more problems than the ones they would solve. The reason 0.0 is empty is mostly because there are not many starbases arround. I made a 30 jump run to a 0.0 starbase and only found people in the next to the last and last jumps. There were no starbases in there. Perhaps if making a POS was better explained more corps would risk it. I'm in a little corp, but if we learned how to create them, and it was affordable, we would. And we are not veterans, just playing since july. The problem is that: 1) People don't want to risk anything 2) People want to destroy everything in sight 1 and 2 being different kinds of people. Thruth is that if you skip the first low security systems arround high sec, you'll usually find less problematic systems. Just don't go there with an iteron or a mining ship without some covering, and you'll be safe. I've even seen low-sec systems, one next to the other, full of high-sec people. Perhaps they guard the system from PC pirates, who knows. Why doesn't more people do the same? Now the critique about the anti-carebearing skills: Why do you need an advanced skill to avoid the reverse-podding? So if I study both carebearing skills to 5, and the first anti-carebearing to 5 I'll be able to fight anyone, and if I'm podded they'll get podded too? Doesn't make sense. What would be nice is: [ with a diminishing skill I mean a skill that starts being at level 5 and goes back to level 0 (and dissapear) as time goes by, you can't train it ] Ultrapod (diminishing skill) You pod is really fast, maneuverable (+100%/skill) and has a +skill warp strenght. Ultrainsurance (diminishing skill) Your insurance will cover skill*20% of the price value of the goods destroyed if your ship is destroyed. This way newbie pilots could go by risking nothing, and when time is due they would either have the skills to survive wherever they want, or they could still hide in high-sec zones. 5 weeks or so would be ok. I'm not a PvP, but that aspect of the game is crucial as I understand the game. I just don't go anywhere dangerous without cover (as I'm no fighter, but a researcher and miner). |
 Galifardeua Gallente Completament Tarats |
Posted - 2005.11.01 13:33:00 -
[30] About the skills: They are too powerful and the anticarebear skills make no sense, they would create more problems than the ones they would solve. The reason 0.0 is empty is mostly because there are not many starbases arround. I made a 30 jump run to a 0.0 starbase and only found people in the next to the last and last jumps. There were no starbases in there. Perhaps if making a POS was better explained more corps would risk it. I'm in a little corp, but if we learned how to create them, and it was affordable, we would. And we are not veterans, just playing since july. The problem is that: 1) People don't want to risk anything 2) People want to destroy everything in sight 1 and 2 being different kinds of people. Thruth is that if you skip the first low security systems arround high sec, you'll usually find less problematic systems. Just don't go there with an iteron or a mining ship without some covering, and you'll be safe. I've even seen low-sec systems, one next to the other, full of high-sec people. Perhaps they guard the system from PC pirates, who knows. Why doesn't more people do the same? Now the critique about the anti-carebearing skills: Why do you need an advanced skill to avoid the reverse-podding? So if I study both carebearing skills to 5, and the first anti-carebearing to 5 I'll be able to fight anyone, and if I'm podded they'll get podded too? Doesn't make sense. What would be nice is: [ with a diminishing skill I mean a skill that starts being at level 5 and goes back to level 0 (and dissapear) as time goes by, you can't train it ] Ultrapod (diminishing skill) You pod is really fast, maneuverable (+100%/skill) and has a +skill warp strenght. Ultrainsurance (diminishing skill) Your insurance will cover skill*20% of the price value of the goods destroyed if your ship is destroyed. This way newbie pilots could go by risking nothing, and when time is due they would either have the skills to survive wherever they want, or they could still hide in high-sec zones. 5 weeks or so would be ok. I'm not a PvP, but that aspect of the game is crucial as I understand the game. I just don't go anywhere dangerous without cover (as I'm no fighter, but a researcher and miner). |
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