Only way to fix the CSM system is to remove it, period. Goonswarm and pets will just endeavor to exploit whatever new CSM structure is introduced. Smoke & mirrors.

And if it is removed. "Only way to fix Eve Online is to remove Goonswarm / ban them all. Goonswarm and pets will just endeavor to exploit whatever shortcomings this game has."

Slippery slope.

The Mittani sends his greetings.

And if it is removed. "Only way to fix Eve Online is to remove Goonswarm / ban them all. Goonswarm and pets will just endeavor to exploit whatever shortcomings this game has."

Slippery slope.

And if it is removed. "Only way to fix Eve Online is to remove Goonswarm / ban them all. Goonswarm and pets will just endeavor to exploit whatever shortcomings this game has."

Slippery slope.

CSM is formed by a democratic vote system that includes those players who care about the game, decide to get familiar with CSM candidate's programs and cast a vote for one of the candidates. The current state of CSM is no one's "fault" but the players that didn't like Goons and haven't done anything in order to stop them from taking over CSM.

- If there's an interesting candidate that was from another alliance/corporation/faction that some of you liked, you should have voted for that candidate.
- If there was no suitable program offered by any candidate and a large mass of players agreed upon certain topics, then you should have presented your own candidate with a program that covers those specific topics that you all agree with.

Either way, the democratic system and freedom of choice between the CSM candidates is not flawed. The logic that abstention is not the same as saying that you don't care who gets to be in CSM is flawed.

P.S.> No, I won't say if I voted for a Goon or not. I'm only saying that the voting was fair and went in the best democratic spirit. If you don't like the current CSM, next time take a couple of minutes to review the programs of the candidates and cast your vote.

LOL yes they can clearly remove the null sec slant by adding a high-sec pubbie slot.....which goons can still run for by having one of their high-sec mission runners apply and all voting for them. GOOD JOB CAREBEARS YOUR TEARS ARE DELICIOUS

CSM is formed by a democratic vote system that includes those players who care about the game, decide to get familiar with CSM candidate's programs and cast a vote for one of the candidates. The current state of CSM is no one's "fault" but the players that didn't like Goons and haven't done anything in order to stop them from taking over CSM.

- If there's an interesting candidate that was from another alliance/corporation/faction that some of you liked, you should have voted for that candidate.
- If there was no suitable program offered by any candidate and a large mass of players agreed upon certain topics, then you should have presented your own candidate with a program that covers those specific topics that you all agree with.

Either way, the democratic system and freedom of choice between the CSM candidates is not flawed. The logic that abstention is not the same as saying that you don't care who gets to be in CSM is flawed.

P.S.> No, I won't say if I voted for a Goon or not. I'm only saying that the voting was fair and went in the best democratic spirit. If you don't like the current CSM, next time take a couple of minutes to review the programs of the candidates and cast your vote.

I'd rather talk directly to the Organ grinder and not the monkeys, but that's just me though.

I don't think they have had any discussion on the how the populating of a better CSM would be done. I am sure though simpleton exploits would be taken into consideration.

Typical socialist bs... Only support democracy when it suits your specific needs. If the "people" are upset about the choices made by the current CSM then by all means vote someone who represents your needs in the next election.

So the message of the actual player base doesn't come across.

Typical socialist bs... Only support democracy when it suits your specific needs. If the "people" are upset about the choices made by the current CSM then by all means vote someone who represents your needs in the next election.

My own personal opinion would be to maintain the current method of voting and CSM formation (after all it is up to people to vote for who they want - we all get the same chance and the ability to review everybody's manifesto), however, I believe the CSM/CCP should be there to put forward and generate ideas and potential game changes, which are then voted on by the playerbase via an in-game voting system (preferably at the log in character selection screen to avoid interfering with gameplay). The ideas could then be prioritised in order of popularity.

To ensure everybody is represented there should be some kind of weighting to ensure null, low-sec etc ideas can also move forward.

I also hope that one of these many CSM must go topics can stay in General Discussion to ensure maximum exposure (after all this is an important enough topic surely?) instead of being moved to speakers corner.

I i would have thought more goons would have posted in the defence on the CSM staying as it is

Your statement does not invalidate mine though. Goonswarm is a known entity with a known agenda and there is nothing wrong with that.

The problem is when you use the CSM as a means to subvert all of EVE Online to that agenda while 'pretending', as a CSM member, to have EVE Online's best interests at heart .

The funniest thing is that they don't even WANT to pass a message. If they did, they would have voted for someone.


Ok let's do something else.

In order to promote peoples running for the CSM, let's allow those peoples to send one or two EVEmails to each and every toon in EVE before the elections. How cool is that ?

The main problem with electing a CSM dude in Highsec is that there is no global channel or something. Random highsec pubbies don't read forums. But if you send them an evemail, they'll read it. And it's basicly the only way to spread the word.

In nullsec alliances, well, they have their own forums, mumble/TS channels, jabbers and so on. Spreading an information doesn't take long/is possible. In highsec, except shouting in Jita's local 24/24, peoples can't hear you or won't even care.

Allow every candidate to send ONE global evemail and it's all good.

In all seriousness, I think that the CSM should be divided up with a represenative for each area of gameplay like Null/FW/WH, etc. instead of just a group of random players that may have vested interests in only certain parts of the game.

That makes a lot more sense.

In all seriousness, I think that the CSM should be divided up with a represenative for each area of gameplay like Null/FW/WH, etc. instead of just a group of random players that may have vested interests in only certain parts of the game.

That makes a lot more sense.

And you have proof that this is what the 2 Goon CSM members are doing? And of course we also have to accept the totally implausible premise that Mittens and Vile rat are also able to brainwash and control the majority of the CSM into blindly following their agenda?

These threads are starting to become even more rediculous. FFS I'm a "pubbie" as they call it and even I'm getting tired of the rhetoric. If you think you can do a better job, then put up or shut up. Otherwise, please just shut up.

It's probably been suggested before but how about having a representative for every big part of the game?

For exemple: Null sec, Low sec, High sec, Industry, Mission, Incursion, FW, WH, PI, etc.

Nope. Why you ask ?

It's pretty simple. Let's say we manage to put Mittani in the nullsec seat. Then the nullsec part of that CSM will be biased toward Goons and friends. I don't know how to explain it because I'm not really english/american, but you know what I meant.

Right now, GSF, PL, Legion of Death, Morsus Mihi, Rooks and Kings and DNS have representatives. It would be even worse if all nullsec space get only one representative.

Then the nullsec part of that CSM will be biased toward Goons and friends

Yes, change the CSM.

I really don't feel like playing "Goonswarm Online: Your **** is ours"

I wonder what would happen if the CSM did vanish, or the goons only got 1 seat (or none)... wonder how long they would endure without the extra intel and preperations they have been getting from CSM information... of course, can't prove any of this and this is just speculation but ina thread that says soemthing that could upset the goons and Mittani's grasp on eve i would have thought more goons would have posted in the defence on the CSM staying as it is

In all seriousness, I think that the CSM should be divided up with a represenative for each area of gameplay like Null/FW/WH, etc. instead of just a group of random players that may have vested interests in only certain parts of the game.

That makes a lot more sense.

I think you just made his point, , as in, having a null sec CSM, it's biased towards, well, null sec.

nerf attractive people with charisma and a modicum of social graces rarrrrrr

I don't really care, because the 'null sec slant' is, in practice, a chimera. Some of the most active people in CSM6 aren't necessarily from nullsec- Trebor, Meissa, and Two Step - and I work with them very closely on a daily basis.

Edit: Two step is all giddy about 'hurr wspace is nullsec hurr' but you know what i mean

There's this persistent myth that the CSM is often at each other's throats, or that I'm crushing Trebor under my heel or something. In practice, what's wrong with EVE is obvious and not particularly controversial. There's no 'null vs non-null' divide. There's not really even a divide on CSM6 period; we've been effective precisely because we're united.

People who lost barges and want to spew conspiracy theories have been emailing HIlmar with their tinfoil, obviously enough. Whatever. vOv

At some point you need to stop talking. I know, I know. You enjoy hearing yourself speak. Who doesn't? But really, you're losing touch with your own self.

Wasn't the CSM6 that put w-space grav nerfs on the table?

Wasn't it your own corp that attacked said barges?

Shall I continue?

As for CSM being at each other's throats being a popular myth, I'll disagree. I think the popular perception is that everyone in the CSM has their nose in each other's arse forming a nice big circle while inhaling the aroma deeply. There's nothing theoretical about the null slant coming from CSM or Goon's own actions of late under your leadership.

I look forward to any change CCP brings about to the structure and makeup of future CSMs.