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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.06 18:09:00 -
[31]
LOL - See!!! I don't know what the rest of you are thinking.
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Lonewulf
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Posted - 2003.08.06 18:56:00 -
[32]
Heh I'd love to know where you are buying Omens so cheap. After thinking about this thread I loaded up an Alt, hopped on the super highway and checked about 8 different regions.. cheapest price on an omen was 3.5 mill. Did you buy all the 2 million isk ones up allready? 
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Dorien
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Posted - 2003.08.07 10:12:00 -
[33]
Just a few notes:
Some respond to the spiraling down of prices in the market by whining that the market is broken. Others form Cartels and begin forcing some structure on the market.
Be careful if you think that 1.0 space is safe from player enforcement. But true Cartels are NOT out to pod for no reason. They are trying to help Manufacturing compete with Pirate killing and Mining as a viable profession.
Remember, negotiate, and find your place in the universe.
Dorien
MILITEC Armaments Cartel |
Barl Rathbone
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Posted - 2003.08.07 10:26:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Barl Rathbone on 07/08/2003 10:29:47
 Quote:
Just a few notes:
Some respond to the spiraling down of prices in the market by whining that the market is broken. Others form Cartels and begin forcing some structure on the market.
Be careful if you think that 1.0 space is safe from player enforcement. But true Cartels are NOT out to pod for no reason. They are trying to help Manufacturing compete with Pirate killing and Mining as a viable profession.
Remember, negotiate, and find your place in the universe.
Dorien
MILITEC Armaments Cartel
You are trying to bully people into selling at over inflated prices.
I sold a 2nd hand 650 cannon I no longer use to the highest buy order which was 89k. This was placed by YOU.
You then sent me a stroppy mail telling me not to sell at the price you offered. WTF !?!?!?!?
If you want to try to enforce prices you may want to:
1) Stop being such an arrogant *%$*
2) Recommend reasonable prices.
I havent manafactured any goods for ages but after this I am certainly going to.
What are you going to do about it ? Buy my goods up ? Thanks!
I'll even sell via an alt so you have even less chance of destroying the seller than you do now.
After speaking to several people at Hulm yesterday who you have also threatened you'll be delighted to know that every big seller there doesnt give a monkeys about your idle threats and is now more keen to sell stuff you dont want !
So you see you have achieved nothing....
If anyone wants to form a Free Trade Cartel let me know as I will happy to make a donation 
PS Your Cartel has 15 members. Many of which no doubt are alts. Is this really a proportional represntation of the 1000's of eve players ?
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Dorien
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Posted - 2003.08.07 14:27:00 -
[35]
Barl,
I have checked into your allegations. It seems you are correct. The entity to whom HULM is assigned for that unit did, in fact, have a buy order at that time. They also sent you a proforma eve-mail concerning FUTURE sales of that item. As do all MILITEC notices, that one refered you to me, head of Cartel Realtions. note: *I* did not buy that item, nor did *I* set that buy order.
MILITEC's role in this market is strictly as an administrative and enforcement body. Our numbers reflect the necessary members to carry out the adminstrative function. As we represent many individual and corporate interests, take care to not become deceived about our strength relative to our published size.
Again, we DO NOT seek to "bully" people, rather to help organize the market in a manner consistenet with the charter concept that manufacturing should be as viable as mining and pirate hunting.
Finally, the notice sent to you said NOTHING about what price YOU should sell at in the future. It simply offered that should you wish to be assigned exclusive territory free from direct Cartel competition, in exchange for defending target pricing to contact me. Do not invent bogeymen in the shadows. There are enough of them there already.
Dorien
MILITEC, Cartel Relations
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.07 14:34:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Kalhan on 07/08/2003 14:41:48
Burl can you sell me some Omens at 2mill I will buy 4 at a time if you sell them to me for 1.5mill
Dor - I tried tell these people before. I tried organizing something. but they don't listen and once you do something like the allience thing they get all defencive like some high schooler as if your trying to run there life and do the complete opposite.
If they want to lower there prices below INS let them I make more money that way.
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Barl Rathbone
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Posted - 2003.08.07 14:44:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Barl,
<snip>.
MILITEC's role in this market is strictly as an administrative and enforcement body. Our numbers reflect the necessary members to carry out the adminstrative function. As we represent many individual and corporate interests, take care to not become deceived about our strength relative to our published size.
Again, we DO NOT seek to "bully" people,
<SNIP>
Finally, the notice sent to you said NOTHING about what price YOU should sell at in the future.
<SNIP>
Dorien
MILITEC, Cartel Relations
Bullying - you threaten to blow anyone up who doesnt sell at over inflated prices.
I have a transcript of a conversation YOU had with an associate telling him he could only sell 650 cannons at 200,000isk each.
That is a ridiculous price !!!
Then when I sold a 2nd hand item which I didnt manafacture but wanted to get rid of your stupid cartel bought it with a buy order.
You then had the cheek to complain I was selling at lower price than I should !!
Your own rules and regulations dont make sense.
In a system 2 stops away from Hulm 650's sell for 100k, why would anyone buy at 200k ??
As I said, the whole of the Hulm community couldnt give a monkeys about your cartel so you kow where you can stick your fascist behavior.
Heil Dorien !
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.07 14:48:00 -
[38]
Burl if you don't sell Omens what do you sell? ships that is. some people are starting to raise there prices and I need a new manufacture I can mak emoney off of.
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Barl Rathbone
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Posted - 2003.08.07 15:09:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Burl if you don't sell Omens what do you sell? ships that is. some people are starting to raise there prices and I need a new manufacture I can mak emoney off of.
Dont sell for under insurance value I'm afraid :)
Dont want to sell at 150% profit either !
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Relic
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Posted - 2003.08.07 15:09:00 -
[40]
LOL,
As all this cartel talk seems to be taking place around the Heimatar region here are some market prices.
8 89,997 Pator
50 90,000 Ammold
4 90,000 Klir
23 99,774 Hulm
32 100K Auga
Plus another 5 systems with prices below this 200K mark, I can't see this cartel working to well. Also none of these are items I have put up as I've been under bid myself. Now if it was not for an agreement with another player I would just be selling at 75K as with eff prod 5 and a researched BP these things cost only about 63K to make and a 20% market is not bad.
Relic
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Barl Rathbone
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Posted - 2003.08.07 15:13:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Barl Rathbone on 07/08/2003 15:14:04
Relic,
75k for a 650 autocannon is ridiculous.
20% profit on a sale is stupid.
You should sell at 200 isk like the cartel say.
Who cares if someone can buy exactly the same goods 2 jumps away for less tahn half the price ?
Up the Cartel I say.
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Oosel
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Posted - 2003.08.07 15:16:00 -
[42]
ill bet these were the guys who sold bp copies in the first place and are now worrying because we can now make our own ships and their initial greed has come back to bite them nobody is selling anything at a loss its just some of you want things to be like it was when eve first went retail....
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.08.07 15:20:00 -
[43]
WTS: Bestower 1.2Mil... its worth it I swear, the ******* factory workers are on strike, soon we will be forced to move to Amarr space and use slaves to build the ships so we can undersell the competition....
Hear our cry, fix Bestower price at 1.2 mil, my rich ***** daughter wants to drive a Murcielago!
Make me rich now so I don't have to hear her *****.
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.07 15:56:00 -
[44]
Daesdemona -
Did you accually read what I said or look at the pretty numbers?
Thats was what the prices were at when I started playing. Do I think they should be back at those prices? maybe but I like the fact that you guys sell them lower then INS.
I make more money that way.
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.07 15:56:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kalhan on 07/08/2003 16:01:04
Double Post
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.07 15:56:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Kalhan on 07/08/2003 16:00:51
triple post
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.08.07 16:00:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Daesdemona -
Did you accually read what I said or look at the pretty numbers?
Thats was what the prices were at when I started playing. Do I think they should be back at those prices? maybe but I like the fact that you guys sell them lower then INS.
I make more money that way.
a) I heard you the first time
b) I don't sell $hit so back off
c) A little humor never hurt anyone, lay off the eve pipe and get some sleep.
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.07 16:02:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Kalhan on 07/08/2003 16:03:40
Humor??? Sorry it really really sounded like flaming sarcasim to me.
I got lots of sleep its 12pm here.
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.07 16:02:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Kalhan on 07/08/2003 16:02:54
didn't mean to offend or triple post
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Windy Whitehall
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Posted - 2003.08.07 16:11:00 -
[50]
sorry didn't read most of second or third page.
what is really happen here is this so called Cartel is asking CCP to make them a legit corp and help them. read latest dev chat log and you will find the section where they ask CCP to help them get word of thier exsitance out to all players of game. and to include them in storyline
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Dorien
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Posted - 2003.08.07 16:14:00 -
[51]
Barl,
Your "associate" was asking about what Cartel pricing targets were for that item in newly assigned territory. And none of the MILITEC guidelines are 200k or over for that item. You must be mistaken.
MILITEC sets a target price, a minimum price and a buyout price. Members of the cartel agree to support those pricing levels on specific superior goods items in exchange for non-compete agreements with all other cartel members. Those who break Cartel policy are refered to Enforcement.
Enforcement takes a case-by-case approach to every institutionalized seller. Just because a Cartel participant sends you a notice does NOT mean Enforcement is going to attack you if you sell again. Enforcement rearely ever engages in hostilities, instead they try to work out a mutually beneficial arangement with the seller.
The only time (that I am aware of) which enforcement has used force is when no settlement is reachable and MILITEC participants are either threatened or specifically targeted in the market.
Now, I will be the first to admit, I am not directly involved in enforcement. My role is to act as liason between the various manufacturers and negotiate pricing guidelines as set out by the Cartel. Also, I explain how the Cartel works.
I hope this helps!
Dorien
MILITEC Cartel Relations
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Dorien
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Posted - 2003.08.07 16:17:00 -
[52]
Windy,
MILITEC has never asked CCP to do anything for us. Again, we are a consortium of independant and corporate manufacturers who founded MILIEC to help provide the market with a little structure.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Dorien
MILITEC Cartel Relations
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Relic
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Posted - 2003.08.07 17:55:00 -
[53]
Quote:
Your "associate" was asking about what Cartel pricing targets were for that item in newly assigned territory. And none of the MILITEC guidelines are 200k or over for that item. You must be mistaken.
Well the reports from others also indicate that they were told 200K or else.
Quote:
Enforcement rearely ever engages in hostilities, instead they try to work out a mutually beneficial arangement with the seller.
Funny all the gangster movies I seen use the same wording :)
Quote:
MILITEC has never asked CCP to do anything for us. Again, we are a consortium of independant and corporate manufacturers who founded MILIEC to help provide the market with a little structure.
In the Dev Chat it was the trade Fed who seem to want to be written in to the story line, or at least have CCP do their marketing for them.
To be honest, this type of structure is never going to work as each build have different costs - someone with a researched BP and Eff Prod 5 can sell way below another player and still make a larger overall profit and anyone selling drops just wants a sale fast so will sell below the market price.
Relic
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Dorien
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Posted - 2003.08.07 18:16:00 -
[54]
Relic,
We agree that someone with good skills and well researched blueprints can make a higher profit than one without. If both were members of the Cartel, then the one with better researched BP's would make more money, as is appropriate.
We disagree that a Cartel cannont work. While target pricing is ~175% profit, actual averages work out to closer to 100% - "keystone" in retail. You have to consider the Cartel members must buy out lower priced one-off drop sellers and also must defend their territory with price wars.
While those raise costs and insure that Cartel members do not always receive full "retail" pricing, it DOES significantly raise the profit margin. As a matter of fact someoone was saying that they considered 20% to be a good profit for them. Our Cartel members report profit margins of FIVE TIMES that amount.
Does it work? You bet!
Dorien
MILITEC Cartel Relations
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Relic
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Posted - 2003.08.07 18:32:00 -
[55]
I was the person who said that I was happy at 20% margin and as I've been given the green light from the player I have an agreement with, to price at what I like they are now on sale at 76K :)
The thing is I would rather sell 100 guns at 20% margin than 5 at 100% margin.
Also I'm often selling to other solo players I work with within the game, as I'm buying the ore they mine or the drops they get from pirates we have a close working relationship and I have no plans to overcharge them and mess that up.
Relic
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Aleister Crowley
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Posted - 2003.08.07 18:53:00 -
[56]
Price fixing is illegal (at least in the states). So you could be busted and sent to a country club err.. Prison where they will force you to watch TV and play ping pong (oh the horror).
'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law' |
Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.08.07 18:54:00 -
[57]
What!!?? The government regulates prices what are you talking about?? Illegial??
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Relic
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Posted - 2003.08.07 19:11:00 -
[58]
On the old historic home planet in the 20th century many countries made cartel agreements illegal and many companies were fined for such things.
As it stands the empire's of the EVE space have not needed to introduce such laws as the market does not enable such structures to be formed wih any easy.
Relic
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.07 19:14:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 07/08/2003 19:16:01
Edited by: Jash Illian on 07/08/2003 19:15:17
Quote:
Relic,
We agree that someone with good skills and well researched blueprints can make a higher profit than one without. If both were members of the Cartel, then the one with better researched BP's would make more money, as is appropriate.
We disagree that a Cartel cannont work. While target pricing is ~175% profit, actual averages work out to closer to 100% - "keystone" in retail. You have to consider the Cartel members must buy out lower priced one-off drop sellers and also must defend their territory with price wars.
While those raise costs and insure that Cartel members do not always receive full "retail" pricing, it DOES significantly raise the profit margin. As a matter of fact someoone was saying that they considered 20% to be a good profit for them. Our Cartel members report profit margins of FIVE TIMES that amount.
Does it work? You bet!
Dorien
MILITEC Cartel Relations
Oh...please, please, please aim for 100% profit on your prices.
What that will do is allow anyone that can meet the demand to undercut you and destroy your cartel.
320k for a Rifter? I'm sure many people intent on selling for 200k would love you for it. You'd be taking every manufacturer in your cartel out of the competition 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Zorakk
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Posted - 2003.08.07 19:37:00 -
[60]
I luv this confrontation. This is what it is supposed to be about? Think the Cartel will back down or the Independents? Will the Independent folks join to fight the Cartel? Will it just be a big shouting match and involve money or think they will really throw down and start fighting??
Good stuff. 
Zorakk
P.S. IF and when it gets ugly if anyone is in need of Mercenary services...etc....
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