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Zaryte
N-Lightning
0
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Posted - 2013.06.04 21:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tea Leaves wrote:
You're not the victim here, you're a ****** who apparently doesn't know how to read.
Yep, that's got to be it. Great input.
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Lexmana
963
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:
Not to mention the SAME forums that have been talking about the changes for some time.
The SAME forums he came to in order to write up a complaint.
Before today i've never had a reason to come to these forums. This is the first time i've ever been here.
So you come here to whine am i right? Well now you have also learned that you can come here for information or, if you don't like the forums that much, you can just read the dev blogs for information by following the link announced in-game. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
1413
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Posted - 2013.06.04 21:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:Tea Leaves wrote:
You're not the victim here, you're a ****** who apparently doesn't know how to read.
Yep, that's got to be it. Great input.
It actually is, considering this information has been available on the launcher at login. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
237
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP provided information about the changes way in advance via:
1. Dev Blog on Forum
2. Link to same Dev Blog with Information in Launcher
3. Another link on your character selection sidebar
4. On the default start page of the INGAME browser
5. Through Newsletter to your RL mailbox
You might think they should spray it across the stars or spam our ingame mailboxes with dev mails.
I disagree. And of the many many MMOs I play and have played, I don't know one that does that. (Perhaps in WOW Pandas come hobbling along and hand you the patch notes? I don't know...)
In addition to that I might add you will not ever enjoy the full scope of EVE if you don't take part in meta-gaming around it.
Something will always hit you by surprise and it will be "unfair"... lets say when your beautiful freighters are hit by Hulkageddon or the next Burn Jita.
Gods know CCP is doing a lot to make it easier and easier for new players...
Now instead of whining learn from this and next time open your eyes and look in the places news are posted in EVE.
For your own sake. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3504
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:Skippy Usenet wrote:Kangaax wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74234
Note this was posted on febuary. First time I've seen this. I wouldn't describe my Eve activities as living under a rock. Same, If something like this had been posted in game to everyone it wouldn't have been missed by a single player.
It was posted on the launcher that you have to look at to get into the game. Before the launcher, news items were posted on the login screen.
You literally had to look at a screen which contained links to and summaries of the information you want.
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
1991
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:36:00 -
[66] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:Tea Leaves wrote:
You're not the victim here, you're a ****** who apparently doesn't know how to read.
Yep, that's got to be it. Great input.
It actually is.
EVE is a game that punishes bad thinking, recklessness, carelessness and irresponsiblity. It's one of the few games that (for the most part) treats it's players like adults. The expecations on aare HIGH.
If you NEED an in-game direct and specific mail regarding information that could affect you, you are (wait for it) simply playing the wrong game. CCP doesn't hand-hold, THAT is what makes it a great game.
Stop failing, take responsibilty from you actions and grow into the game. Or keep whinning, your choice. |
Zaryte
N-Lightning
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:38:00 -
[67] - Quote
Lexmana wrote: So you come here to whine am i right?
No. I came here to voice my displeasure. |
Nosfera 2
Assault Opera
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
Trained Dessie V for some alts, thinking it could be cool to have all 4. Did not pay so much attention to the fine print, and since they had minnie Frigs to III only -> well you know the rest.
In my opinion, I think CCP would have been better off giving un-allocated sp to match that of the other 3 racial dessies.
It would have been a more forgiving scheme for us illiterate / semi-active guys. |
Bane Veradun
Band of Blobbers
23
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:
Not to mention the SAME forums that have been talking about the changes for some time.
The SAME forums he came to in order to write up a complaint.
Before today i've never had a reason to come to these forums. This is the first time i've ever been here.
How do you play a game for five months and not go to their forums? Any MMO that I've ever played, plus the handful of shooters that I've been interested in, I found the forums to learn more about it. Don't you care about advancing yourself?
Really, I'm going to file this as a troll and move on. The OP is being far too obtuse to be considered serious at this point.
A lion that needs his prey to lay down in front of him, is no lion at all. He's a pet. |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
225
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:43:00 -
[70] - Quote
Aidan Brooder wrote:CCP provided information about the changes way in advance via:
1. Dev Blog on Forum
2. Link to same Dev Blog with Information in Launcher
3. Another link on your character selection sidebar
4. On the default start page of the INGAME browser
5. Through Newsletter to your RL mailbox
You might think they should spray it across the stars or spam our ingame mailboxes with dev mails.
I disagree. And of the many many MMOs I play and have played, I don't know one that does that. (Perhaps in WOW Pandas come hobbling along and hand you the patch notes? I don't know...)
In addition to that I might add you will not ever enjoy the full scope of EVE if you don't take part in meta-gaming around it.
Something will always hit you by surprise and it will be "unfair"... lets say when your beautiful freighters are hit by Hulkageddon or the next Burn Jita.
Gods know CCP is doing a lot to make it easier and easier for new players...
Now instead of whining learn from this and next time open your eyes and look in the places news are posted in EVE.
For your own sake.
Not empty quoting
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Zaryte
N-Lightning
0
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Posted - 2013.06.04 21:44:00 -
[71] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:
It actually is, considering this information has been available on the launcher at login.
Alot of players login straight away. It's not a good place for important infomation as it's easily missed. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
1413
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 21:49:00 -
[72] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:
It actually is, considering this information has been available on the launcher at login.
Alot of players login straight away. It's not a good place for important infomation as it's easily missed.
Bet you won't anymore now will you... |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
351
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:03:00 -
[73] - Quote
Thank you CCP!
Remove insurance. |
Zaryte
N-Lightning
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:04:00 -
[74] - Quote
I think i'm starting to get the trend here.
New players = Stupid and should not even try to play the game
Voicing opinions on forums = Attack player at once, regardless of thread's content.
Every single reply so far (except one) has been telling me that I didn't go and look for the information. If this information is so obvious and in my face like you're all saying then why did I not know? Obviously the information was not in a place that is seen by all players, including the new ones such as myself.
The bottom line there would've been not a single player left in the dark if CCP had just sent a mail to everyone It would be in the players face every time they logged in until they actually opened it and read it.
Hiding it on the side of a launcher is not good enough.
Forums are the last place I would go for useful information because it's populated by vicious, elitist, unforgiving trolls who can only offer information on how much of an idiot you are.
YES, I will concede. This could all have been avoided if I had come to the forums and stumbled on the relevant link to the skill training changes. However that just simply shifts the blame off of CCP and on to the new guy that doesn't know what he's doing in this VERY complex game for which it is so infamous for.
You cannot blame the newbie for not branching out to every source out there for tips on how not to get screwed over. This is unacceptable and more blame should be placed on CCP.
_____
*Shields face from the incoming abuse* |
Zaryte
N-Lightning
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:08:00 -
[75] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Zaryte wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:
It actually is, considering this information has been available on the launcher at login.
Alot of players login straight away. It's not a good place for important infomation as it's easily missed. Bet you won't anymore now will you...
Nope, I have learnt a couple of valuable lessons here. I will not admit however, that I am solely responsible and CCP did sufficiently enough to prevent this from happening to some players. |
Lucnab
Air
Initiative Mercenaries
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:13:00 -
[76] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:
The bottom line there would've been not a single player left in the dark if CCP had just sent a mail to everyone It would be in the players face every time they logged in until they actually opened it and read it.
Hiding it on the side of a launcher is not good enough.
Forums are the last place I would go for useful information because it's populated by vicious, elitist, unforgiving trolls who can only offer information on how much of an idiot you are.
YES, I will concede. This could all have been avoided if I had come to the forums and stumbled on the relevant link to the skill training changes. However that just simply shifts the blame off of CCP and on to the new guy that doesn't know what he's doing in this VERY complex game for which it is so infamous for.
You cannot blame the newbie for not branching out to every source out there for tips on how not to get screwed over. This is unacceptable and more blame should be placed on CCP.
_____
*Shields face from the incoming abuse*
Mail notifications can be turned off so easily missed, and its hard to stumble into some information that has been on every log in screen for months.
Nice troll btw |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific
Initiative Mercenaries
1992
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:I think i'm starting to get the trend here.
New players = Stupid and should not even try to play the game
Voicing opinions on forums = Attack player at once, regardless of thread's content.
Every single reply so far (except one) has been telling me that I didn't go and look for the information. If this information is so obvious and in my face like you're all saying then why did I not know? Obviously the information was not in a place that is seen by all players, including the new ones such as myself.
The bottom line there would've been not a single player left in the dark if CCP had just sent a mail to everyone It would be in the players face every time they logged in until they actually opened it and read it.
Hiding it on the side of a launcher is not good enough.
Forums are the last place I would go for useful information because it's populated by vicious, elitist, unforgiving trolls who can only offer information on how much of an idiot you are.
YES, I will concede. This could all have been avoided if I had come to the forums and stumbled on the relevant link to the skill training changes. However that just simply shifts the blame off of CCP and on to the new guy that doesn't know what he's doing in this VERY complex game for which it is so infamous for.
You cannot blame the newbie for not branching out to every source out there for tips on how not to get screwed over. This is unacceptable and more blame should be placed on CCP.
_____
*Shields face from the incoming abuse*
You're jsut the perpetual victim aren't you?
The problem with victimhood is that bad things keep happening to you because when you blame others for your mistakes, you don't LEARN anything from the mistakes.
That's the disservice you are doing yourself. Time and time agian EVE and it's community is going to whip you and you will lose over and over again because you give in to the urge to think someone else is at fault. By trying to avoid the psycological pain of admitting that you were wrong, you're simply going to set the stage for more failures.
To each his own, but I feel sorry for you. You can hide behind you victimhood and call me a troll, but dep down you know what Im saying to you is true and you also know my advice would help you if you took it. |
Madlof Chev
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
177
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:15:00 -
[78] - Quote
This thread gave me AIDS, I hope you're happy. |
Nikolai Katushkin
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:18:00 -
[79] - Quote
When you use the launcher, you get news about changes.
On the client log in screen, you get an advert every so often describing changes and news about the game you are playing.
When you are on the character select screen you get a newsfeed on the right hand side talking about news and changes.
You can click on them to read more about said news and changes.
You cannot blame CCP for you not wanting to learn more about the game when "Big changes" are advertised to you at least twice every single time you log on. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14542
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:I think i'm starting to get the trend here.
New players = Stupid and should not even try to play the game
Voicing opinions on forums = Attack player at once, regardless of thread's content. No.
New player = new player.
Voicing opinions = try to figure out what the problem is.
A new player is not the same thing as someone who doesn't look in the most obvious and common place for game information and developer communication, and voicing your opinion is not the same thing as blaming everyone else for mistakes you've made.
Quote:Every single reply so far (except one) has been telling me that I didn't go and look for the information. If this information is so obvious and in my face like you're all saying then why did I not know? Obviously the information was not in a place that is seen by all players, including the new ones such as myself. It was in a place that is seen by all players. It's just that you, like many others, chose to ignore it and chose not to stay informed.
Quote:Hiding it on the side of a launcher is not good enough. Good thing that it wasn't hidden, then.
Quote:Forums are the last place I would go for useful information because it's populated by vicious, elitist, unforgiving trolls who can only offer information on how much of an idiot you are. You've got cause and consequence mixed up there. You are getting the impression that the forums are populated by vicious, elitist, and unforgiving trolls because you choose not to go there to stay informed, and as a result miss out on very easy-to-find information that would have solved your issues without minimal effort from your part. The supposed viciousness and lack of forgiveness is a fairly direct result of you trying to shift the blame away from your own mistake and onto others.
Expecting newbies to go to the single self-evident source of game information is not much of a demand. Your problem is not a newbie problem GÇö it's a wilful ignorance problem. The two are not connected (in fact, newbies are often very eager to learn from mistakes, whereas you seem to be thoroughly reluctant to do so). The blame is yours and yours alone, which is only further reinforced by your hyperbole about what the demands on those newbies are. It only shows that you're still not learning. People will often try to make a distinction between newbie and n00bGǪ and you're slowly but surely planting yourself on the wrong side of that distinction.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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Kacer Xenro
Team Pizza
No Holes Barred
15
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
When i was a new player in the dark days of '09 the first thing i did after signing up for the game was to go for the forums (which had a horrible layout back then), and lo and behold, i found info on the game and metagame.
Other than that i've been afk for the last half year due to some exams and preparation for those, so i've hardly had more than 30 minutes in game at a time, and yet i managed to find the info.
I can grant you some sympathy if this is your first mmo, otherwise, no, i have absolutely zero ***** to give. |
Zaryte
N-Lightning
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:38:00 -
[82] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
You've got cause and consequence mixed up there. You are getting the impression that the forums are populated by vicious, elitist, and unforgiving trolls because you choose not to go there to stay informed, and as a result miss out on very easy-to-find information that would have solved your issues without minimal effort from your part. The supposed viciousness and lack of forgiveness is a fairly direct result of you trying to shift the blame away from your own mistake and onto others.
Expecting newbies to go to the single self-evident source of game information is not much of a demand. Your problem is not a newbie problem GÇö it's a wilful ignorance problem. The two are not connected (in fact, newbies are often very eager to learn from mistakes, whereas you seem to be thoroughly reluctant to do so). The blame is yours and yours alone, which is only further reinforced by your hyperbole about what the demands on those newbies are. It only shows that you're still not learning. People will often try to make a distinction between newbie and n00bGǪ and you're slowly but surely planting yourself on the wrong side of that distinction.
I appreciate the post. And pretty much everything you say is correct.
I do think you're still missing one very small point i'm trying to make though. It's this expectation you have of everyone to go to the forums and/or read every snippet of information out there such as the notes on the launcher. It's just the sheer magnitude of the consequences of these updates that make it so different than other patches CCP make. This link http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74234 should not have been left amongst the forums or where ever it was. It should have been directly sent to each player via mail. That is the necessary step that should have been taken to bring players up to speed. CCP do have a responsibility to it's players and that responsibility should not be ignored. I, like many other players come home to unwind with EVE with some relaxed activities. There are many play styles out there and not all of them are so hardcore that it requires constant checking up on what's going on behind the scenes. It's behind the scenes for a reason and i'm happy to accept new content the way it is when it comes out. This however, is different and it is in this case where CCP need to reach out to people who don't go looking for this kind of information.
Yes. I could have prevented this. But CCP, the developers could have also prevented this. They have the resources. It isn't my job to come home every night and begin researching "How not to get screwed in EVE Online".
-
And I want to make this clear because i'm getting tired of reading the same posts: I DO take some blame in what happened to me. I'm not claiming to be 100% blame free. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:42:00 -
[83] - Quote
Nothing really, that hasn't been said before, except this maybe: HA HA HA
and for the missing 
Information is power and nothing more so then in EVE, and after 10 years, there is still something to learn, not informing yourself is and gets punished.
I am a really new player and I got it (knowing other games, patches, expansions) and once I saw a note IN THE LAUNCHER I started training to BC 5 and made it 2 days ago... using all knowledge at mys disposal, not even counting on 2x 50.000 bonus skillpoints in (there are implants too, you know ).
And what was that about the most important thing in EVE ??? not ISK, not skills >>> friends, seems you haven't gotten any and nobody wants to talk to you.
And what was it, that sesame street teaches us for dozens of years: "the one who does not ask, stays dumb!"
Thanks for the laugh  |
Kangaax
BlueWaffe
26
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:44:00 -
[84] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:Every single reply so far (except one) has been telling me that I didn't go and look for the information. If this information is so obvious and in my face like you're all saying then why did I not know? Obviously the information was not in a place that is seen by all players, including the new ones such as myself.
The 2 FIRST things i opened when i started eve 3 years ago have been the forums (which had a dev blogs section) and the wiki. The FIRST news that you saw on the eve website, and that you can still see at the bottom, were the dev blogs and press releases. By just opening the website i could keep myself up to date which was happening in the game.
Do not pretend newbies don't find the information because it's not obvious. People who willingly ignore easily reachable data and expect every information to be handed to them are however.
Just as a really interesting question, how often in other MMOs you surely play such as WOW, are the patch notes handed to you by ingame emails and notifications? How often do you receive a mail describing law changes voted by any assemblies that are in your country?
Answer: none.
Why should EVE be different?
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Zaryte
N-Lightning
0
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Posted - 2013.06.04 22:45:00 -
[85] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:Thanks for the laugh
Np, glad I could brighten up your day  |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
14543
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 22:45:00 -
[86] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:Yes. I could have prevented this. But CCP, the developers could have also prevented this. They have the resources. It isn't my job to come home every night and begin researching "How not to get screwed in EVE Online". They are preventing this. They provide every resource needed.
You keep massively inflating the effort you have to do. It's one page you need to check on every now and then. Or you could be modern and fancy and use an RSS reader and do fsck-all work to get your hands on the information reliably, automatically, and immediately.
No, it really shouldn't, because that kind of unsolicited spam is very high on the list of annoyances you'll encounter among players. It will also be ignored by those who need it the most for the same reason they ignore the myriad of other avenues used to get their attention: because it's what they do GÇö they ignore things. End result: lots of people get annoyed, and those who need the information don't get it.
If you want to stay informed, make sure you stay informed. It's a very simple maxim.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Zaryte
N-Lightning
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
If you want to stay informed, make sure you stay informed. It's a very simple maxim.
I'll attack this from a different angle.
It's unfair to blame the victim who's been stabbed just because the person stabbing him said he was going to stab him.
Where i'm from we don't punish victims just for being part of the crime.
And if that wasn't a good example, what about this:
If a deaf/blind person is walking along the train tracks, do we say to him "hey, you're walking on train tracks!" or do we do alot more than that and move him off the train tracks.
These examples aren't brilliant but I don't know how else I can get my point across. |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
225
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:04:00 -
[88] - Quote
So, you are saying that you are deaf and blind, and so you should be moved off of the train tracks?
I would like to know which other games send you mails when they make changes.
You have been told all the easy ways in which you got information about this patch, including talking to your corp mates.
Your answer has been "but why should I click an item in my launcher"
How do we know you would open an ingame mail and click a link in there, when that requires at least 2 more clicks |
Kangaax
BlueWaffe
27
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
Zaryte wrote:These examples aren't brilliant but I don't know how else I can get my point across.
I'm gonna use the same one so you can get OUR point accross.
Let's say you're a guy in train tracks. The train is coming, and sees you. He's blowing his horn hard to warn you.
Now, you have two options:
- Listen to the horn, and leave the tracks by yourself
- Wait for the train to stop, then complain you didn't see the crossing sign because it was hidden by bushes, and leave
Which option is the less annoying for the train passengers?
Then imagine the train passengers are us, who expect people to look at crossing signs and don't like the train to stop, and the guy on the tracks is you.
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Fer'isam K'ahn
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 23:16:00 -
[90] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:So, you are saying that you are deaf and blind, and so you should be moved off of the train tracks?
- hahaha, did I smell a rhetorical question there ?
And btw. a train often can not stop and all possible precautions have been taken, someone ignoring all signs, warnings and still climbs over a barbed wire fence and uses the tracks for a bed... maybe is meant to suffer the consequences of evolution.
And you can talk and try to keep this thread up for some compassion (and believe me, the ones playing it, are also laughing behind their screen) but it will not help, your credibility of having brains or being capable of having a decent argument are nil.
Seen a lot of analogies lately that just barely look to be valid, but by far are they truly off course most of the time, the rest, not even close.
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