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Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
74
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 00:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
kilteroff wrote:Eve has taught me that nullbears are endlessly hilarious.
My brain has taught me if you play a game but don't enjoy it you're the one at fault, and you're likely avoiding real life; that family you mention.
That is the one thing I will hate about leaving this game - the people in it are amazing. From the crazy devs to the maniac nullsec, they are better than watching telly.
So... family calls ... I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |

Akaraut
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 00:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
A large part of why i feel hi'sec is where a lot of isk is gained is mainly down to us players. There are no big signs put up by CCP saying 'trade all your stuffs here', because over the lifespan of the game this is where players have naturally congregated, be it because it's a mission hub, mining hub, or whatever. After these places become popular, people find that where lots of people gather, the easier it is to buy and sell items, thus a market hub is born. Even if the original reason why the market hub came to be changes, people new and old still come back, as it's usefulness to us players is now cemented.
Security has a major factor in this as well, many people will bring items found from far in to low-sec, null and WH space just to sell it, not only as a place to guarantee items selling, but as a place they can be safe to sell their loot and base themselves.
Logistics. WH space it not a trade hub, as it would be utterly insane to try with the randomness of WHs. WHs are afterall a place to find loot, rather than a place to sell it. Low'sec and null'sec aren't so much of a no brainer for sellers as the risks/effort vs reward goes up a lot. So there needs to be better reason to trade there than in hi'sec. Supplying alliances, fueling pos's, supplying factional warefare, filling in a gap in the market where there is high enough demand and just simply to cut down the travel time are good reason to sell out in low/null sec fro those who put in a bit of effort and planning. Many people would be more than willing to pay 20% more for a module 5 jumps way, than go for the cheapest deal 20 jumps away.
Now where it gets complicated is how you define making money. Is it just the isk in your wallet or do the asset values of the items you loot and let sit in storage count too. Imho it's both, as items sat in storage have a variable value of their own, it's why people hoard items, to sell when prices are high. With this in mind, a LOT of money in variable asset values is made in WH, low/null sec, hi'sec is just the main place to safely turn those asset values in to isk.
Klandi wrote:Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec
So for the reasons above, i respectfully disagree with that answer, as ISK is not the only thing that can be counted as money in eve, just gaining items makes you money. Hi'sec in the end is just a very popular place to turn those assets in to ISK due to the safety and number of people to buy your items.
EDIT
Oh and this is what EVE has taught me.
There is a reason for everything, you might just need to look at it from a different angle to see it.
But most of all:
PATIENCE! This game has taught me a very harsh lesson in patience, wait and work for it long enough and you'll get your payoff, big or small. A lesson that i thank this games learning curve for. |

Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2354
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 00:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Klandi wrote:
OK - but what has Eve taught you?
To second guess things like plausibility of crazy money schemes or even the safety of the next system over.
To stay organized.
To see the opportunities in every thing.
To take some risks once in a while, but to have a plan in case they backfire... The Drake is a Lie |

Freakdevil
Aliastra Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 01:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
EVE is a harsh cold place .... well not really. You are obviously not happy about the game for whatever reason - likely to do with some personal event that has triggered a rethink of your leisure time. Whatever the case you need to consider a game that upsets you is not a game but a problem.
Take a few months off, clear your head and then come back fresh. The game requires it. And yes, you will be back.
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45thtiger 0109
SYNDROME OF A DOWN The Mockers AO
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 01:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec Reasoning: You build ships - the general rabble sell them in Jita or surrounding sales hubs so you have to sell them there as well. You mine - and you need to sell the resulting mins - in a high sec trade hub You make components/ammo etc - you have to sell them in high sec to make money. Buying BPs and shipping them out to null is essential only to make supers. Proof: Let's paint the normal scenario of existing in Eve. Lets say you are a builder of BS and Carriers and you want to sell them to fund your playing experience. You want to do this in null sec. You need the BP, mins and skills. Got the money to purchase said items? No - mine or mission or buy all required items by selling PLEX. OK - got the cash now buy the BPOs in null... no, low sec maybe ...no ...HIGH SEC! The next step assumes you are crazy enough (or have the brosefs around) to get the BP from high-sec to null without gettting ganked. Let us also assume you have null sec space because you have either captured the space or have entered into an agreement that allows you to dock and use station slots. Having succeed getting them into your space - the next step is to prepare the BP to be cost effective - that will require time and station/POS facilities, So you get the mins in null (if you can mine them), build the ships in null -but can't get everything you want to fit in the ships in null so you got to go where they are being sold - high sec. SO many stages that adds SO much risk and then you find that cost wise, they are cheaper in high sec. So you end up thinking ... why the hassle? IT IS NOT WORTH THE EFFORT OR THE RISK tl;dr Morale of the story is if you are a builder and you want to make real money, you HAVE to go to high sec to sell - you cannot sell it in substantial numbers in null hence you cannot make the money you need to make in null. Q: Why do Vets leave Eve? A: It becomes a job Reasoning: As most forum posts will point out - you need to be part of a group to do most things in Eve (to accomplish significant goals). That means that in the majority of cases those that wish to play solo will get bored more quickly and leave. If you want good fites you need to be part of a null sec alliance, being subject to the rules and conditions of the group. This means your Eve time becomes a job - a place that requires your application and time, consuming more time as more requirements present themselves to be fulfilled. Then there is the need for self-sufficiency which necessitates a ratting grind or a trip to high sec to sell the stuff you have made in null (with all the risks included). After 5 yrs of doing this you think - no more - I don't want a non-paying job or the hassle of defending a pixel landscape with a group of great like-minded people, or the grind for pixel money - my family deserve my full attention as they are not pixels... tl;dr We already have a life and Eve only takes away from it (although it takes a few years to realise). There is no way of playing a small game of Eve People complain that skill = skill points If a 6mth newb that has trained his rifter and associated skills to lvl5 - comes across a 6yr old vet that is in a rifter - that is a level playing field ship wise. If a 1v1 situation occurrs in that scenario, you are left with skill as the decider. The ONLY thing the vet has over the newb is lots more choice. What has Eve taught you?
I am a vet and i have been playing eve for nearly 7 years.
I still love eve so what if people like high sec.
Let them do what they want to do and stop complaining.
If you want to leave eve please do so.
But for the last 6.8 years of me playing eve i have enjoyed it.
I have slowed down a bit but still enjoying eve.
We all know that RL takes preference over playing games but allot of people do it for the social aspect of playing eve.
And eve has a social community thats why i love this game it just keeps me going.
|

Vertisce Soritenshi
Daktaklakpak.
2227
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 01:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
Blah blah blah...
Look...play the game if you like it. Have fun if you can. If you can't and you don't like the game, leave...don't whine like a little prat on the forums about it.
God...I have played a hundred MMO's and I have never gone on the forums and wrote a letter to the editor on why I am leaving. Just ******* leave. You will be back and you know it. Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821 |

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
157
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 02:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: If you can't and you don't like the game, leave
Real good advertising there. Just hunker down and turn the game into a dinosaur full of Bitter vets, right?
CCP marketing department will sure love all the new "whales" fleeing to the other F2P games that treat them as VIPs, too.
-_-
Games don't have to worry about the competition. They have to worry about the very population they attract and cater too, and in EvE, it's anarchy and sociopathy (fine combo for disintegration). "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
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Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 02:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
...Except that in every instance that a newbie has shown all the qualities attributed to a good EVE player and an overall great person (Taking responsibility for their own actions, doing their research on what they're getting into, not being an obnoxious know-it-all) - They've always been treated well by the majority of the EVE population.
Perhaps the problem lies not with the "dinosaur" of a game or its "awful, sociopathic" playerbase then, but in the attitudes of those who believe that new player retention is an excuse for justifying that every new player should be mollycoddled "like VIPs". |

Silivar Karkun
Electronic Research Team Ing
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 02:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
not a vet but this game has taught me something very important:
the good spots are in the hands of the wrong people, i mean, no matter how much buffs gives CCP to null sec industry, it will never be viable unless alliances and corporations actually make use of it. and unless players learn to actually take the risk, and allow the other people to take the risk of living in null. but with all those bubbles and gatecamps and griefers, null sec will never be as profitable as high sec, industry wise... |

pug lei
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 03:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
The only reason I spend time in Hisec is RL limits the time per session I can play. Been to Low, Null, High, and Wspace and made money from industry related endeavors in all of them.
As far as all the good spots being taken, I can 100% guarantee that aint so.
You just gotta be smarter than the metagame is all. |
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Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
161
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 03:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sevastian Liao wrote:...Except that in every instance that a newbie has shown all the qualities attributed to a good EVE player and an overall great person (Taking responsibility for their own actions, doing their research on what they're getting into, not being an obnoxious know-it-all) - They've always been treated well by the majority of the EVE population.
Perhaps the problem lies not with the "dinosaur" of a game or its "awful, sociopathic" playerbase then, but in the attitudes of those who believe that new player retention is an excuse for justifying that every new player should be mollycoddled "like VIPs".
Meanwhile, EvE has a 500k population (counting Isbox/bots and multi-account holders).
Brand new expansion, 35k online now, 12hrs after the rollout (was there that many botters in the ice fields?)
And you're only interested in who fits into the prison system and it's rules?
Do you work for Blizzard? "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|

Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 04:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
"Prison system" implies that the culture around these parts is inherently negative - I have pointed out that the culture welcomes players who have a positive attitude towards learning and the failure that comes with it, players do not have the overweening sense of entitlement that many like yourself and others share.
...As compared to your own knee - jerk reaction to disparage the game and its players based off your own enlightened assumptions of botting, online numbers during an offpeak period, and blanket statements denigrating the EVE community as sociopaths with convict mentalities.
So yes, attitude problems on your part, and those like yourself. The game - and its base community - are doing fine. |

Haulie Berry
893
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 04:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVrEwCa8nSA |

Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
281
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 04:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Most of the money in eve comes from null/wormhole space, not high sec mining/mission bears. Fit out a strategic cruiser and tell me where you end up getting all of it from - not WH or null although thats where you find the components.
So because the processed parts are sold in highsec..........which just means a JF hauled it from null/whatever means it doesnt come from w-space or null?
You are one hell of a troll. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3601
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 04:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Klandi wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Most of the money in eve comes from null/wormhole space, not high sec mining/mission bears. Fit out a strategic cruiser and tell me where you end up getting all of it from - not WH or null although thats where you find the components. So because the processed parts are sold in highsec..........which just means a JF hauled it from null/whatever means it doesnt come from w-space or null? You are one hell of a troll. An elegant doublethink for a more trolly age. I am a nullsec zealot. |

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
161
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 04:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Sevastian Liao wrote:"Prison system" implies that the culture around these parts is inherently negative - I have pointed out that the culture welcomes players who have a positive attitude towards learning and the failure that comes with it, players do not have the overweening sense of entitlement that many like yourself and others share.
...As compared to your own knee - jerk reaction to disparage the game and its players based off your own enlightened assumptions of botting, online numbers during an offpeak period, and blanket statements denigrating the EVE community as sociopaths with convict mentalities.
You've illustrated beautifully the point how more players does not equate to a better gaming experience.
So yes, attitude problems on your part, and those like yourself. The game - and its base community - are doing fine.
I'm not a "Bitter vet", Sevastian. I'm a gamer who plays many games gazing into the EvE culture and mechanics.
It's not the norm to say the least.
And the term "prison system" refers to this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZwfNs1pqG0
It's doesn't look pretty, because it isn't.
EvE is what it is, warts and all. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|

E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
198
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 04:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:If your possessions will be of no further use to you, please consider contracting them to me.
No please dont this guy has to much already |

Xuixien
Elysium Dominion
471
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 04:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
EVE has taught me to enjoy the salty-sweetness of tears. Everyone vs Everyone Xuixien - Space Cat, Queen of Rens |

Chic Botany
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 05:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
OP - the problem isn't the game, the problem is you 
Can't make money in nullsec, where the hell are you coming from.
hmm, PI, BS rats with million isk bounties, exploration, mining ALL PAY MORE IN NULLSEC THAN EMPIRE, it's just because you're unwilling to do it.
Yes, you need logistics to get your stuff to empire to sell, but if you can't make good money in null from PI then you are doing it wrong.
Do the eve *community* a favour, burn your stuff and biomass.
Fun is what fun is: People find sitting on a gate camp for hours fun, yet call miners strange for sitting in an asteroid belt for hours. People find sitting in an asteroid belt for hours fun, yet call campers strange for sitting on a gate for hours.
People find industry fun as it's the challenge of working out what is profitable, what will sell and what they can build. People call industrialists carebears and despise them (even though they probably built the ship they're sat in)
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
783
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 05:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
o7
GL RL, maybe you'll come back in a couple months or years, doesn't matter really. Cya *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1951
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 05:11:00 -
[51] - Quote
Confirming I make absolutely no ISK in my C6 WH. |

OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 05:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec
This is completely false. But in nullsec you also need to pay. Greed is mostly completely different of risk. Ofc, noone will let you make isk in null, and not fight or pay for your place. Might be a sin for you, but do you give out free ships? Because if you don't, it's a sin for us. There's just 2 kinds of Indy people. The first one is the majority, wich think they are some God-given players, and they get stuck in hisec because noone wants them to hang out and do nothign for a comunity. There's also the second kind, more smart and game-willing, wich understand that leaving hisec means entering a comunity. They do well, get rich, and don't die trying.
Q: Why do Vets leave Eve? A: It becomes a job Vets do leave EvE, but this reason is mostly false. Think twice. Speak once. You will look less noobish.
What has Eve taught you? It tought me that butthurt can reach unexpected levels. Greed too.
Anyway. What you do is complain you don't get all too easy isk. A normal person would not be butthurt about this. Grow up. And nope, i don't want your stuff. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3601
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 05:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
OldWolf69 wrote:Q: Why do Vets leave Eve? A: It becomes a job Vets do leave EvE, but this reason is mostly false. Think twice. Speak once. You will look less noobish. Indeed. I am a nullsec zealot. |

Felicia Tennyson
Tennyson Court
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 05:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
Dear OP,
If something happened in game that caused you to deciding to leave the game, then sorry but no sympathy for you as the argument points you've provided are pretty weak and really very subjective to one's own perspective.
If something happened in RL and you need to leave the game, I don't see why holding grudge about particular game mechanics or culture because they should be irrelevant to your RL.
If you are posting this just because you are now in a position undecided whether RL or Eve Life to take precedence, then mate, it's really sad.
This is only a game, as much as it also did bloody well in certain areas simulating real world models, people play it (and any game for that matter) supposedly to enjoy, relax, feel good ... etc.
some changes at times, you may not like... some ppl you met at times, you may not like... somethings in RL at times, are more important and you must attend to...
but none of the above one should just simply throw at the game as if blaming it's the game's fault. In any MMO, you inevitably came across people who made up the community, just like RL in the cruel world, you are part of what made up that community and there's no escaping the fact.
Running away from something that you dislike in a game is easy but trying to do the same in real world, I'm pretty sure you'd have little to no luck succeeding.
P.S. If you ever feel like a game is a 2nd Job or Life, you should never have continued playing it. |

Kult Altol
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
381
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 05:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
I believe Eve needs an income tax, and all the isk goes to be for fair distribution to poor players. An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. A narrow mind is a focused mind.
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OldWolf69
IR0N. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 05:41:00 -
[56] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:I believe Eve needs an income tax, and all the isk goes to be for fair distribution to poor players. Commie! |

Bruce Kemp
Relentless Force That Escalated Quickly
44
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 06:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec
Yep, i guess all the Titans in eve were bought with isk made in high sec. 
|

Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
75
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 09:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
Feel I need to clarify why I made this post and why I feel it is important to the community that is and will be.
Many posts deal with the issues surrounding the imbalance of the sectors in Eve. The simple reason is the one I put forward but ofc as with all generalizations, it fails with detail. Many of the forum trolls have picked this up and made the thread into a negative rather than the intended positive.
I would like to inform all of those that are entering the game that you will meet an amazing collection of people and you will experience a rich vibrant diversity of player interaction - but there will be grind .. and the grind will annoy you after a while. I don't believe there is a difference between the grind of making carriers to the grind of defending your space - it is still a situation that loses its appeal when you realise that the needs of the situation outweigh the amount of time you wish to give to it.
One instance which is both exciting and annoyingly necessary is in the requirement of getting stuff from one sector to another. Whether it is ships or mins - you cannot sell your goods in any sort of reasonable quantity unless you make it accessible to the general public. These people are in high-sec and could be termed risk averse, but are following the well known and wise statement - Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Once you have been in the game and done most that the game can offer - why stay? CCPs own figures show that as soon as a character has built/owned a titan - then there is nothing more that tops that and they leave. Personal experience has also shown that the amount of time they spend in the game to achieve that goal is also a contributing factor. Many friends I had in the game have left due to time issues between game and relationships. Something to watch out for and address sooner rather than later.
That is it - thought it would be a nice idea to start up a constructive thread on GD on what I have learnt and hoped that a few other vets would have contributed positively. There is always hope... I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |

Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1504
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 09:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Lets say you are a builder of BS and Carriers and you want to sell them to fund your playing experience. You want to do this in null sec... The next step assumes you are crazy enough (or have the brosefs around) to get the BP from high-sec to null without gettting ganked.
Your post contains a lot of stuff that makes really no sense. You've not thought about this at all. If you build carriers then it's safe to assume you have one yourself. Travelling through null in a carrier is fairly safe, and you only need one brosef or an alt. If your trading in null you at least need blue with the alliance your trading with, or to be in the alliance yourself. So it wouldn't be unsafe at all. Talking to people helps here.
I was going to write a big long post and pick out all the things you said that either didn't add up or could be circumvented by using that big grey gelatin inside your skull that some people might call a brain. But I can't be bothered. Basically, it is tough, but it's not impossible and with a little planning it can be made relatively painless. Less even than auto-piloting a freighter through highsec. Odyssy covers your mineral and production concerns pretty soundly. If it's not enough, I am sure they will push it further later.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
9890
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 09:28:00 -
[60] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Q: Why are there so many more people in high sec vs Null or low A: You can't make money anywhere except in high sec
You analysis is a little hyperbolic, but yeah, it is a major balance issue. The CSM is aware of it. CCP is aware of it. It's being discussed and worked on.
Please don't leave, because we need people to contribute to the discussion and players who will want to live in null when there's something to do other than smoosh red pluses.
1 Kings 12:11
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