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Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
44
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Posted - 2013.06.05 10:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm sure the carebears are loving their new early warning system.
How have other peoples experiences been so far? Finding less people in space than usual?
It feels like this is going to be a pain for people who farm their static for tears and corpses. |

Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
347
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Posted - 2013.06.05 10:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Goes both ways I guess. Easier than ever to combat scan people down, and it still depends entirely on whether the prey is paying attention or not, on whether they have a chance to get out or not. In otherwords, in trying to help out the new guys who don't know any better, CCP actually made things harder for them. Then again it's not exactly a bad thing that now they're forced to learn how to pay attention and how to make things safer for themselves. |

Vivian Marcos
Bag End
3
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Posted - 2013.06.05 10:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
I havent done much testing yet, but is it really instant? the actual scan animation in space only happens every minute or 2. |

MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc W-Space
110
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Posted - 2013.06.05 10:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well, when farming - most people always had a probe out for new signatures, anyway. New early-warning may be a slight problem, however it is still better then what we had no too long ago, when capitals simply logged off on-site before being PVP-aggroed. |

Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
44
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Posted - 2013.06.05 10:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vivian Marcos wrote:is it really instant?
It really is.
You can test for yourself. Next time you collapse, scan with probes as well as watching the new scanner. The signature will appear in the scanner before you're able to get find it with probes. Meaning it displays there in less time than it takes for probes to run a scan, which approximates to instant. |

Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
80
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Posted - 2013.06.05 10:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sounds like I will have to switch tactics from sneaking in to dscan the system cloaked before probing to instantly launching combat probes when going trough a new hole.
Having a probing t3 that can tackle targets also became more important. Goodbye dear Helios. |

QT McWhiskers
Hard Knocks Inc.
149
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Posted - 2013.06.05 10:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is true. Before hand it would take someone between 4-8 seconds to find the new sig. Now, they have A WHOLE 4 SECONDS to react to the new sig and locate it. And as The Doctor has said. You can do a lot in 4 seconds.
I honestly dont see what the fuss is all about. Its literally 4-8 seconds of early warning. I dont care how good you are, You are not going to find site runners, get your fleet ready on in the hole, AND warp on top of them in 8 seconds. Its just not possible. If they are paying attention, then you have almost exactly the same chance to find and kill them as before. If they arent, then you get the kill anyways.
And if its caps in a site, then you have exactly the same amount of time as you had before. Their siege or triage timer. |

Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
482
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 11:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
But people forget to hit the scan button all the time. Even with a probe out, after a while you scan only every 30 seconds, or every minute, or even less often.
Now you get a new sig popping up on your list without doing anything. That is hard to miss. People who are at least looking at their screen every few seconds will be aware of the new signature before the intruder has even had a chance to jump into the system.
We'll see how it plays out and how it balances itself out with the other changes, but viewing it isolated, there is no doubt imho that it's a significant nerf to the hunters. . |

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
102
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Posted - 2013.06.05 11:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
QT McWhiskers wrote:This is true. Before hand it would take someone between 4-8 seconds to find the new sig. Now, they have A WHOLE 4 SECONDS to react to the new sig and locate it. And as The Doctor has said. You can do a lot in 4 seconds.
I honestly dont see what the fuss is all about. Its literally 4-8 seconds of early warning. I dont care how good you are, You are not going to find site runners, get your fleet ready on in the hole, AND warp on top of them in 8 seconds. Its just not possible. If they are paying attention, then you have almost exactly the same chance to find and kill them as before. If they arent, then you get the kill anyways.
And if its caps in a site, then you have exactly the same amount of time as you had before. Their siege or triage timer.
Big difference though, prior you needed to spam 'scan', now you can just ignore all and wait for a new sig to pop. |

Borlag Crendraven
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
347
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Posted - 2013.06.05 11:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Like said many times over, everything will be easier for those people who already knew how to pay attention while doing things, while it's getting much harder for those who either don't know how to do that or just plain and simply refuse to do that. |
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Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
555
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Posted - 2013.06.05 11:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
13
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Posted - 2013.06.05 11:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
The good thing is you don-¦t need to check if the ships are at the POS or not anymore.  They are... |

Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
223
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Posted - 2013.06.05 11:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people. On one hand I like seeing the list of sigs in a system when I jump in, but on the other hand I think they shouldn't be discoverable with the naked scanner. That the scanner automatically refreshes is just an issue of convenience vs tedium, and probably should stay.
Personally, I'd like to see sigs require probes again. |

Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards Mass Overload
1280
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Posted - 2013.06.05 11:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
I dislike the change as well, but not because it amounts to an even-easier early-warning system. It's because it's even easier to program farming bots around it now. New sig = new face in local. http://www.TalocanUnited.com |

QT McWhiskers
Hard Knocks Inc.
149
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Posted - 2013.06.05 12:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:QT McWhiskers wrote:This is true. Before hand it would take someone between 4-8 seconds to find the new sig. Now, they have A WHOLE 4 SECONDS to react to the new sig and locate it. And as The Doctor has said. You can do a lot in 4 seconds.
I honestly dont see what the fuss is all about. Its literally 4-8 seconds of early warning. I dont care how good you are, You are not going to find site runners, get your fleet ready on in the hole, AND warp on top of them in 8 seconds. Its just not possible. If they are paying attention, then you have almost exactly the same chance to find and kill them as before. If they arent, then you get the kill anyways.
And if its caps in a site, then you have exactly the same amount of time as you had before. Their siege or triage timer. Big difference though, prior you needed to spam 'scan', now you can just ignore all and wait for a new sig to pop.
If people werent paying attention and not scanning THE INSTANT that their probes finished a cycle, then I highly doubt they will watch something as boring as an empty list from where you ignored all known sigs in system as you look for a new one.
If hitting scan and watching a timer was boring before. Looking at an empty list in case something new MIGHT pop up will be death. Im not too worried about this.
Scout - "New sig guys..."
FC - "When did it pop up?"
Scout - "Idk man I was watching dr who." |

Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
483
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 12:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:I dislike the change as well, but not because it amounts to an even-easier early-warning system. It's because it's even easier to program farming bots around it now. New sig = new face in local.
Although if we could somehow identify people using such a bot, I'd be willing to log out in their system... 
Anyway I don't think botting is viable in w-space combat sites, only for mining. I've never seen someone in w-space who acted like it was a bot. . |

Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
483
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Posted - 2013.06.05 12:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
QT McWhiskers wrote:If people werent paying attention and not scanning THE INSTANT that their probes finished a cycle, then I highly doubt they will watch something as boring as an empty list from where you ignored all known sigs in system as you look for a new one.
If hitting scan and watching a timer was boring before. Looking at an empty list in case something new MIGHT pop up will be death. Im not too worried about this.
Not at all. Noticing something pop up on your screen is super-easy. It's like getting an alarm ring from your phone compared to having to remember on your own that you have an appointment. Forgetting the appointment is easy when you are distracted by something else, but you can hardly miss the ringing phone.
. |

Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
730
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Posted - 2013.06.05 12:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
that QT guy doesn't half talk some shite Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |

Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
44
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Posted - 2013.06.05 12:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Not at all. Noticing something pop up on your screen is super-easy. It's like getting an alarm ring from your phone compared to having to remember on your own that you have an appointment. Forgetting the appointment is easy when you are distracted by something else, but you can hardly miss the ringing phone.
This pretty much sums up my opinion of it.
Consider the following.
The new signature appears on your targets scanner when you initiate warp to the new wormhole, and your targets may be on the other side of a large system, not directly visible from the new wormhole. Given the above, it's going to take 2-3 minutes for you to find targets before even getting a fleet in the system and in warp to them.
The new mechanic quite literally does away with the need to have a person whose responsibility it is to hit scan "when they remember to", because now everyone in the system alerted instantly when there is a new signature, they don't even need a probe launcher. The odds of at least one of them even half paying attention is far greater than the odds of the dedicated scanner religiously spamming his scan button.
I'm personally of the opinion that wormholes should not be included in the "discovery scanner" |

Duramah
Bite Me inc Bitten.
15
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Posted - 2013.06.05 13:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Although the instant sig popup is quite overpowered on the other side you do get to drop your probes instantly. Even though this equals it up a little it's still one sided in favor of the farmer. |
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1416
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Posted - 2013.06.05 13:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Honestly I think things will balance out. In many cases before odyssey, I'd jump thru a WH to find site runners, and usually a lone probe. Generally within seconds I'd see cores overhead. So people already are being more diligent in many cases when they run anoms.
Most of the time the key kills I have gotten (arguably not that many but still) happened when people would run sites while having an active connection that we would come through. That issue will still be the same. |

Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
223
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Posted - 2013.06.05 13:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
QT McWhiskers wrote:If people werent paying attention and not scanning THE INSTANT that their probes finished a cycle, then I highly doubt they will watch something as boring as an empty list from where you ignored all known sigs in system as you look for a new one.
If hitting scan and watching a timer was boring before. Looking at an empty list in case something new MIGHT pop up will be death. Im not too worried about this. The difference before, in most cases that I've seen watching targets prepare for plexing, is that there is a scanner that is set aside for watching for new sigs while the combat ships go off to do their thing. So you'd have one or more scouts lazily watching for new sigs, and everyone else checking dscan periodically.
Now, all of the combat ships that might otherwise not even have probes fitted can see the instant a new sig appears in system. You only need the scout to wake up when a new sig appears.
Edit: I admit to gas harvesting during slow times. But when I do sniff gas, I'm spamming dscan every 2-ish seconds; that's even just being in a Venture. If I'm in a 500-1000 mil (or more) plexing ship, I'm going to be glued to that new scanner for no other reason than because it's SO easy. |

Vivian Marcos
Bag End
3
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Posted - 2013.06.05 13:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
ok, i see them update now in space, but for some reason, it does not update my list at all. In order to get a new sig to pop up on the scanner list i have to click the show all tab again to "refresh" it. That could just be me though :D
I also think that this will not drastically reduce the amount of ganks to be had. Before the expansion, noobs got ganked. Now noobs still get ganked =\
Plus as derath said, a lot of ganks tend to happen through holes already opened. |

Setsune Rin
Bite Me inc Bitten.
34
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
ganks through sharing a static naturally arent effected (much) since its idiotic to have your hole open when site running to begin with, but the rolling style of finding targets has been greatly impacted by this change
Vivian Marcos wrote:ok, i see them update now in space, but for some reason, it does not update my list at all. In order to get a new sig to pop up on the scanner list i have to click the show all tab again to "refresh" it. That could just be me though :D
that might be the bug thats in the system, you have to relogg to clear it off i believe |

Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
485
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Setsune Rin wrote:ganks through sharing a static naturally arent effected (much) since its idiotic to have your hole open when site running to begin with,
The fundamental difference between a farmer corp and a pvp corp is that farmers close their static to farm, while pvp corps farm with open connections so that players not interested in farming can use the chain to find pvp. I'd never join a corp that cages me in the home system just because some people want to make ISK :p
. |

Nix Anteris
Bite Me inc Bitten.
44
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 14:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:while pvp corps farm with open connections so that players not interested in farming can use the chain to find pvp
You're forgetting the style of hunting many of the larger corps with high class statics do, which is to repeatedly collapse their static in the hope of finding someone running sites in the next system. This used to have a big element of surprise advantage. Now, not so much. |

Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
122
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people. It's balanced the way it is.
Hunters get faster probing and no need to probe for grav sites.
Potential victims get warning, if they know what they're doing.
Give it a few months to see how things shake out. Without the early warning, mining in WHs will be truly dead. |

Durzel
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
185
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 16:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nix Anteris wrote:Now they are able to be notified automatically, much the same as you see a new ship landing by way of your overview, they see new signatures appear on the scanner. If you have already ignored all signatures in a system, it's still very easy to notice the UI change out of the corner of your eye even if you're not paying attention directly to your scanner window. There's a very good chance they won't even see it most of the time. They would have to be looking in the right direction when it spawns, which optimistically is 180 degrees but more like a cone of about 90.
I would suspect that anyone relying on the overlay to identify new sigs instead of having probes out as before will be living under a false sense of security. |

Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
123
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Posted - 2013.06.05 16:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Durzel wrote:Nix Anteris wrote:Now they are able to be notified automatically, much the same as you see a new ship landing by way of your overview, they see new signatures appear on the scanner. If you have already ignored all signatures in a system, it's still very easy to notice the UI change out of the corner of your eye even if you're not paying attention directly to your scanner window. There's a very good chance they won't even see it most of the time. They would have to be looking in the right direction when it spawns, which optimistically is 180 degrees but more like a cone of about 90. I would suspect that anyone relying on the overlay to identify new sigs instead of having probes out as before will be living under a false sense of security. It shows up in the scanner list. |

Hound Halfhand
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
8
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Posted - 2013.06.05 23:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Maybe that's why we got the cloaky HIC back? To make ganking somewhat viable still?
Also, in a few weeks we will see the stats. If there are a lot less lost capitals in w-space than we will understand just how carebearish it has become.
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