is it really instant?

This is true. Before hand it would take someone between 4-8 seconds to find the new sig. Now, they have A WHOLE 4 SECONDS to react to the new sig and locate it. And as The Doctor has said. You can do a lot in 4 seconds.

I honestly dont see what the fuss is all about. Its literally 4-8 seconds of early warning. I dont care how good you are, You are not going to find site runners, get your fleet ready on in the hole, AND warp on top of them in 8 seconds. Its just not possible. If they are paying attention, then you have almost exactly the same chance to find and kill them as before. If they arent, then you get the kill anyways.

And if its caps in a site, then you have exactly the same amount of time as you had before. Their siege or triage timer.

I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people.

Big difference though, prior you needed to spam 'scan', now you can just ignore all and wait for a new sig to pop.

I dislike the change as well, but not because it amounts to an even-easier early-warning system. It's because it's even easier to program farming bots around it now. New sig = new face in local.

If people werent paying attention and not scanning THE INSTANT that their probes finished a cycle, then I highly doubt they will watch something as boring as an empty list from where you ignored all known sigs in system as you look for a new one.

If hitting scan and watching a timer was boring before. Looking at an empty list in case something new MIGHT pop up will be death. Im not too worried about this.

Not at all. Noticing something pop up on your screen is super-easy. It's like getting an alarm ring from your phone compared to having to remember on your own that you have an appointment. Forgetting the appointment is easy when you are distracted by something else, but you can hardly miss the ringing phone.

If people werent paying attention and not scanning THE INSTANT that their probes finished a cycle, then I highly doubt they will watch something as boring as an empty list from where you ignored all known sigs in system as you look for a new one.

If hitting scan and watching a timer was boring before. Looking at an empty list in case something new MIGHT pop up will be death. Im not too worried about this.

ok, i see them update now in space, but for some reason, it does not update my list at all. In order to get a new sig to pop up on the scanner list i have to click the show all tab again to "refresh" it. That could just be me though :D

ganks through sharing a static naturally arent effected (much) since its idiotic to have your hole open when site running to begin with,

while pvp corps farm with open connections so that players not interested in farming can use the chain to find pvp

I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people.

Now they are able to be notified automatically, much the same as you see a new ship landing by way of your overview, they see new signatures appear on the scanner. If you have already ignored all signatures in a system, it's still very easy to notice the UI change out of the corner of your eye even if you're not paying attention directly to your scanner window.

There's a very good chance they won't even see it most of the time. They would have to be looking in the right direction when it spawns, which optimistically is 180 degrees but more like a cone of about 90.

I would suspect that anyone relying on the overlay to identify new sigs instead of having probes out as before will be living under a false sense of security.

This is true. Before hand it would take someone between 4-8 seconds to find the new sig. Now, they have A WHOLE 4 SECONDS to react to the new sig and locate it. And as The Doctor has said. You can do a lot in 4 seconds.

I honestly dont see what the fuss is all about. Its literally 4-8 seconds of early warning. I dont care how good you are, You are not going to find site runners, get your fleet ready on in the hole, AND warp on top of them in 8 seconds. Its just not possible. If they are paying attention, then you have almost exactly the same chance to find and kill them as before. If they arent, then you get the kill anyways.

And if its caps in a site, then you have exactly the same amount of time as you had before. Their siege or triage timer.

There's a very good chance they won't even see it most of the time. They would have to be looking in the right direction when it spawns, which optimistically is 180 degrees but more like a cone of about 90.

I would suspect that anyone relying on the overlay to identify new sigs instead of having probes out as before will be living under a false sense of security.

Just have your probe scanner window open.

I dislike the change as well, but not because it amounts to an even-easier early-warning system. It's because it's even easier to program farming bots around it now. New sig = new face in local.

I'm sure the carebears are loving their new early warning system.

How have other peoples experiences been so far? Finding less people in space than usual?

It feels like this is going to be a pain for people who farm their static for tears and corpses.

Unless you collapse all wh's before running sites or mining (not always practical), you still have to put out a combat probe and monitor it, plus spamming ds constantly. So it really doesn't make it that much easier.

The biggest problem is the nerf to WH mining by moving the grav sites to the new ore anomalies. It makes wh mining a dead profession.

I think that the current system is fairly well balanced.

The biggest problem is the nerf to WH mining by moving the grav sites to the new ore anomalies. It makes wh mining a dead profession.

Although if we could somehow identify people using such a bot, I'd be willing to log out in their system...

Anyway I don't think botting is viable in w-space combat sites, only for mining. I've never seen someone in w-space who acted like it was a bot.

With the static closed, any new sig can be assumed to be a wh

I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people.

No it can't.

It's balanced the way it is.

Hunters get faster probing and no need to probe for grav sites.

Potential victims get warning, if they know what they're doing.

Give it a few months to see how things shake out. Without the early warning, mining in WHs will be truly dead.

There have been recorded cases of wormholes not immediately appearing on the discovery cheaty mccheat scanner, giving gankers a period of time to pick off targets, but these have been nowhere often enough.

I'd prefer new wormholes not showing up even on probe results for at least ten minutes.

I'm glad a lot of us are on the same page. Although they should bring back deep space probes so we can actually check for new sigs manually if we choose.

No....they have MUCH more time.

The sig spawns in the destination system as you initiate warp to your side of it.
The new sig is now on their screen.
You're in warp to the hole, on your side.
You jump through the hole.
Session change.
New hole loads.
Scanner runs.

They've been POS'd up for about a minute already.

I think most ppl could care less about mining in WHs it's always been **** and always will be **** as long as CCP doenst improves the refining arrays with some common sense(tm).

Knowing CCP, this will never happen. Lets face it, they are plain incompetent with everything even remotly conected to the POS system, or common sense(tm) .

I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people.

The stupid systemscanner makes it almost impossible to jump cap escalation farming fleets unless you are rage rolling with a 30+ ppl fleet. So you can smash in there right away.

-1

I also LIKE the ability to see new sigs pop up in my scanner when I'm in my home system.

Please make sure you take all WH dwellers into account instead of blanketing everyone with you and your buddies opinions.

-1

Whoa whoa, you mean its a big issue for large PvP alliance WH people right? Aren't large PvP alliances still the minority in WH space? Even if you don't like carebears aren't they still the majority and wouldn't they likely have a different opinion than the large pvp alliances that want to sneak in and kill them?

I voted for you but I don't agree with this. I don't carebear much but I enjoy being able to see all the sigs when I enter the system because when you are a small corp and trying to scan down a chain with only 1 or 2 people this is a time saver. Most corps don't have 20 people working to scan down all the chains.

I also LIKE the ability to see new sigs pop up in my scanner when I'm in my home system.

Please make sure you take all WH dwellers into account instead of blanketing everyone with you and your buddies opinions.

omfg would you people get over dsps?
they do NOTHING combat probes dont do, move the fk on to real issues.

Well.... all i see is ganking being a little bit harder. I wanna see the dreads / archons / t3s warp out of the anoms their running while scrammed / in siege. Or maybe the end of rolling the static for pew... might have to scan the enemies' static and jumping into it and ganking from there...

VoC lost 44 bil worth of ships that way yesterday. http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=34552

I think most ppl could care less about mining in WHs it's always been **** and always will be **** as long as CCP doenst improves the refining arrays with some common sense(tm).

Knowing CCP, this will never happen. Lets face it, they are plain incompetent with everything even remotly conected to the POS system, or common sense(tm) .

(clipped)

To some old vets that have done it this way for years this may suck, but this is polish to an archaic system to some of us. Trying to catch players in escalation sites is a EXTREME minority of WH population.

I lived in a c3 with a friend for almost a year without this system and we did pretty good. Learned a lot in the process. So, stop crying, MTFU or go back to empire.

I the regard to staying safe I think you're right. Before the Discovery scanner it was possible to be very safe. Some scouting, some probing and a bit of luck and you're all set. It did require some work though. Now there is no work needed after you scanned the system down.

omfg would you people get over dsps?
they do NOTHING combat probes dont do, move the fk on to real issues.

I have told CCP that it is big issue for wormhole people.

Besides, I'm sure half the people who hate it secretly love it when they're the ones doing the farming.

+1 to this.

I have seen where the anom takes a little bit longer to show than usual. However I think it is client related. If people in corp said there was a new SIG I would toggle show anoms and it would show up. The next time it happened I did not touch it and it took a minute or two to show up.

That being said.

I am enjoying the way it shows sigs. If a new WH pops up I can get on it and look for a fight.

I get it has the potential to alert any new local neighbors. However bears are bears. I love that I just cut down their isk/hour. I have rolled into a system a hand full of times where siggy showed recent npc kills. Ships on field. The type of corps that have 8% efficiency living out of a C6 that farm 900 npc's a day. Still took them 15 minutes to get probes out and the hictor was already on field :-)

[quote=Apollo Eros][quote=Jack Miton][quote=Van Kuzco]

There's one thing combat probes do that discovery doesn't....give away your presence. There used to be this thing called "challenge". It could also be called balance. Here, let me explain how this works.....

You jump into the system and what do you see on dscan? Ventures or barges not at a pos. Then you had to stalk them. Find out where they were to within about 2 - 4 au, go off dscan and drop your probes, then drop them right on top of whomever. If you were lucky and quick you could get them without them even knowing you were there basking in the glory of your success.

With discovery scanner, any noob and a couple of monkeys can pull that one off. I mean, if this is what you're looking for HS offers many more times the pure gank potential than w-space. See roid belt, warp to roid belt, see barge, gank barge. Yes, challenge...the thrill of the hunt....its all there for you....go...

And so, it's the same for wh's and the discovery scanner. It's laziness....pure and simple....but apparently a lot of people are drinking that Koolaid.

You're forgetting the style of hunting many of the larger corps with high class statics do, which is to repeatedly collapse their static in the hope of finding someone running sites in the next system. This used to have a big element of surprise advantage. Now, not so much.

Wow you are very ignorant. Anyone with half a brain already had a scout watching for new signatures. People have said this in the thread already.

When they are in the middle of running sites they are stuck in siege & triage so your point of poeple rolling in to a site running fleet is going to end up in much the same result as it did before hand.