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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Aquiesse Erus	Posted - 2005.11.07 09:48:00 - [1] Edited by: Aquiesse Erus on 07/11/2005 09:51:12 I love this game, i really do, i have spent atleast 1 hour every day for the past almost 3 years playing, usually more than one hour, but when it comes to the point where i see things such as: Corp Names Raffle 1 Raffle Reply I see eve on the brink of ending itself. I know alot of people are going to come on here and say 'We love the game its never going to die' but people need to realise this game is about the community. Now i dont wish to speak for the community and i dont intend to but what i will do is show people what the community think. If you read the above threads you will see some very annoyed people venting their anger at CCP for breaking their promises and their ideals that were on this site before the update for those of you who didnt have the plessure of reading them, let me just assure you they were worth reading and made you feel like this game is worth it. First, the raffle - its a totaly ridiculous idea that should never have been thought of in the first place. An easy solution? The person who wins the raffle gets a free month of eve not a faction battleship kitted to the hilt with the best mods. But no, Oveur went off on one in the above thread proclaiming that it was inocent and would not affect the game, Oveur this is to you personaly and i dont mean this in any way offensivley, but we the players dont give a damn if it will effect the economy, its affecting our trust in CCP. The name changing - What is up with that? Political corectness goes so far, but doing what the GM's are doing to names such as SAS and 4S at the moment is down right wrong. Please try and keep this thread to the bare minimum smack and flames as possible as i would like a mature discussion on the above points. It would also be nice to get a reply from a dev. Aqui

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.07 09:55:00 - [2] I have already said everything I have to say on the Raffle in another post that was locked on this topic. Regarding the name changes, this has got nothing to do with "political correctness", this is simply a breach of our very old name policy which hasn't changed in years. Senior Producer EVE Online

Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:00:00 - [3] Edited by: Nyphur on 07/11/2005 10:01:16 There is a distinct difference between listening to someone and agreeing with them. The devs do indeed listen to people, just most of them don't make in any way a persuasive case. Over 90% of threads asking things of the devs are people posting that they want the game to be a certain way without backing it up with any kind of reasoning or people starting petitions or tacking "/signed" onto the end of someone's thread with an idea in it. It's also important to note that while it sounds nice and dramatic, Eve is not on the brink of ending itself. People will continue to play eve no matter what happens. And if a change ACTUALLY made over 20% of the players leave, you can bet your ass they'll do a rollback. Fortunately, it's actually a rather vocal minority who threaten to leave over something and an even smaller group that actually do leave. They are statistically insignificant. It'd probably also be a good idea if you didn't put words in 70,000 people's mouths. You speak for one person, 1 (or however many accoutns you run) account out of 70,000. Don't say everyone is losing trust in CCP because it's an incredibly easy thing to show up as untrue. All it takes is me saying I trust in CCP and it's already wrong. A single case can disprove a blanket statement like that. And I do trust in CCP. You saw the raffle thread. You saw how adamantly I argued. Then look how it ended. It won't affect the game in the slightest. If I can be convinced, anyone can. As for the name changing, do you think they'd let a guy called "******" on eve keep his name? Or a corp called "The third reich"? Politically inclined things tend to offend someone out there and I am pretty sure they're not allowed in player names, corporation names, alliance names, station names, cargo containers, escrows, in-game chat and forum posts. EDIT: Woah, oveur beat me to it. And I was about to post "You won't get a dev reply. They're all still drinking their morning tea". 'Morning Oveur!
Aquiesse Erus	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:05:00 - [4] Originally by: Oveur I have already said everything I have to say on the Raffle in another post that was locked on this topic. Regarding the name changes, this has got nothing to do with "political correctness", this is simply a breach of our very old name policy which hasn't changed in years. Then why werent the names picked up before? How come alliances such as Band Of Brothers which refers to a world war 2 unit has not been changed? I also put it to you that with regards to the raffle, ccp are handling it wrong. Ingame actions should have ingame rewards, out of game actions such as getting more players should get out of game rewards such as a month free of EvE or a nice eve-mug :)

Oveur	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:06:00 - [5] Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 07/11/2005 10:01:16 There is a distinct difference between listening to someone and agreeing with them. The devs do indeed listen to people, just most of them don't make in any way a persuasive case. Over 90% of threads asking things of the devs are people posting that they want the game to be a certain way without backing it up with any kind of reasoning or people starting petitions or tacking "/signed" onto the end of someone's thread with an idea in it. It's also important to note that while it sounds nice and dramatic, Eve is not on the brink of ending itself. People will continue to play eve no matter what happens. And if a change ACTUALLY made over 20% of the players leave, you can bet your ass they'll do a rollback. Fortunately, it's actually a rather vocal minority who threaten to leave over something and an even smaller group that actually do leave. They are statistically insignificant. It'd probably also be a good idea if you didn't put words in 70,000 people's mouths. You speak for one person, 1 (or however many accoutns you run) account out of 70,000. Don't say everyone is losing trust in CCP because it's an incredibly easy thing to show up as untrue. All it takes is me saying I trust in CCP and it's already wrong. A single case can disprove a blanket statement like that. And I do trust in CCP. You saw the raffle thread. You saw how adamantly I argued. Then look how it ended. It won't affect the game in the slightest. If I can be convinced, anyone can. As for the name changing, do you think they'd let a guy called "*****" on eve keep his name? Or a corp called "The third reich"? Politically inclined things tend to offend someone out there and I am pretty sure they're not allowed in player names, corporation names, alliance names, station names, cargo containers, escrows, in-game chat and forum posts. EDIT: Woah, oveur beat me to it. And I was about to post "You won't get a dev reply. They're all still drinking their morning tea". 'Morning Oveur! Mornin' Nyphur runs to get tea* Senior Producer EVE Online

Aquiesse Erus	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:07:00 - [6] Ohh also, if possible, could you post CCP's values and ideals in this thread or get them put back up on the eve-web-site please.
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:08:00 - [7] Give it up Aquiesse, it is $$ thing. It's a shame, but understandable - even dev's have to eat. Recently it has become more and more clear that the direction of Eve is changing. I don't like the way it's going, but it isn't my game. I guess eventually it will become something I don't enjoy and I will move on, but I will be replaced by 3 people who like fluffy space games - so all is good for CCP. It is a shame that CCP are slowly turning their back on the niche market which put them where they are today, but I can honestly say I hope it works out for them. They had the guts to bring out a game which appealed to an often overlooked portion of the market, and they deserve to do well just for that. Still, at the end of the day, CCP are a business and the bottom line is the bottom line. Then again, maybe I have just misunderstood recent and proposed changes (or lack of), but they certainly look like a dumbing down and 'softening' of the game to a point where... ....bah, it chokes me up - I'll shut up. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Aquiesse Erus	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 07/11/2005 10:01:16 There is a distinct difference between listening to someone and agreeing with them. The devs do indeed listen to people, just most of them don't make in any way a persuasive case. Over 90% of threads asking things of the devs are people posting that they want the game to be a certain way without backing it up with any kind of reasoning or people starting petitions or tacking "/signed" onto the end of someone's thread with an idea in it. It's also important to note that while it sounds nice and dramatic, Eve is not on the brink of ending itself. People will continue to play eve no matter what happens. And if a change ACTUALLY made over 20% of the players leave, you can bet your ass they'll do a rollback. Fortunately, it's actually a rather vocal minority who threaten to leave over something and an even smaller group that actually do leave. They are statistically insignificant. It'd probably also be a good idea if you didn't put words in 70,000 people's mouths. You speak for one person, 1 (or however many accoutns you run) account out of 70,000. Don't say everyone is losing trust in CCP because it's an incredibly easy thing to show up as untrue. All it takes is me saying I trust in CCP and it's already wrong. A single case can disprove a blanket statement like that. And I do trust in CCP. You saw the raffle thread. You saw how adamantly I argued. Then look how it ended. It won't affect the game in the slightest. If I can be convinced, anyone can. As for the name changing, do you think they'd let a guy called "******" on eve keep his name? Or a corp called "The third reich"? Politically inclined things tend to offend someone out there and I am pretty sure they're not allowed in player names, corporation names, alliance names, station names, cargo containers, escrows, in-game chat and forum posts. EDIT: Woah, oveur beat me to it. And I was about to post "You won't get a dev reply. They're all still drinking their morning tea". 'Morning Oveur! Yes, i admit the 'eve ending itself' comment was just a bit of dramatics for my post. Im sure eve is no-where near ending itself and i will keep playing aslong as i have air in my lungs but i just wish to keep these things that i havent stopped hearing about on teamspeak for the past 4 days to end. Alot of people are annoyed and a little change could go a very long way.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:14:00 - [9] Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 07/11/2005 10:16:12 Please look up the char named "Himmler" in the gm petition database. It's been petitioned yet has been allowed to stay. Yet you change an 2.5 year old corpname based on a eula clause you have willingly not enforced during that time (dont tell me you devs weren't aware of the S.A.S. name because that is easily proven untrue actually)... I smell crap, alot of it. That raffle, altho I dont believe the numbers (10K new subs per month through the buddy system ?), is going to be ok, it's still principally wrong, but the effects are minimal. Now, the same goes for a few random namechanges. But somewhere in Eve, a guy is now laughing his ass off because the GM's did his bidding and griefed two of his main enemies out of their corpname....based on a eula clause that has lost its meaning and validity by two and a half years of neglect. In my eyes, that does make those gm's look like a tool.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:19:00 - [10] Edited by: Nyphur on 07/11/2005 10:22:29 Originally by: Oveur Mornin' Nyphur runs to get tea The devs are having their morning teaparty :D. With little plastic cups and frilly dresses, of course. EDIT: Originally by: Aquiesse Erus Alot of people are annoyed and a little change could go a very long way. Change is never easy to accept. There will always going to be people who resist any change. You just have to trust that the devs know what they're doing. And they DO know what they'e doing. They brought this game up from nothing, didn't they? More information on the reasonings behind things would be appreciated, though. It would save a lot of grief, I think, and they'd have to reply less to things like this on the forum. Though I think oveur likes the attention :p.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:20:00 - [11] ohh, none of this would make me quit btw. The op is utterly wrong in that.
Aquiesse Erus	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Marcus Aurelius ohh, none of this would make me quit btw. The op is utterly wrong in that. I was refering to the corps such as SAS and 4S. After nearly 3 years of making a name for themselfs they get their corp name changed. Its enough to want to make them leave im sure.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:24:00 - [13] Originally by: Aquiesse Erus Originally by: Marcus Aurelius ohh, none of this would make me quit btw. The op is utterly wrong in that. I was refering to the corps such as SAS and 4S. After nearly 3 years of making a name for themselfs they get their corp name changed. Its enough to want to make them leave im sure. The reasons were explained to them by a GM. If they beleive the reasons are not correct, they can petition it. It's not really open for public debate.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:29:00 - [14] Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 07/11/2005 10:29:39 Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Aquiesse Erus Originally by: Marcus Aurelius ohh, none of this would make me quit btw. The op is utterly wrong in that. I was refering to the corps such as SAS and 4S. After nearly 3 years of making a name for themselfs they get their corp name changed. Its enough to want to make them leave im sure. The reasons were explained to them by a GM. If they beleive the reasons are not correct, they can petition it. It's not really open for public debate. Oh yes it is. You see, by the same logic and mechanic involved in this decision, I can petition ISS alliance and have it's name changed in "random empire alliance 034", costing you a billion isk to start a new one under a newe name. Of course, I'll google that one to death too and have it renamed as well. You really think that that is not what happened here ? Two corps, active in the same area, having the same enemies, being petitioned and renamed within two weeks of eachother... right. If eula rules and GM petitions become a tool to use in your ingame differences of opinion, then it does concern more then those involved most directly.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Oh yes it is. You see, by the same logic and mechanic involved in this decision, I can petition ISS alliance and have it's name changed in "random empire alliance 034", costing you a billion isk to start a new one under a newe name. Of course, I'll google that one to death too and have it renamed as well. You really think that that is not what happened here ? Two corps, active in the same area, having the same enemies, being petitioned and renamed within two weeks of eachother... right. If eula rules and GM petitions become a tool to use in your ingame differences of opinion, then it does concern more then those involved most directly. No, it's not open for discussion. There are in-game channels and the only thing that we can do on the forums is complain about it back and forth. You could petition the ISS but under what grounds? If the alliance name was against the naming policy, that'd be fine as we shoudln't have named it that in the first place but it's not. the difference here is that S.A.S and 4s are both against the naming policy. The only people who know for sure WHY it's against the naming policy are the GMs and the S.A.S and 4s corporations, neither fo which have, to the best of my knowledge, explained why publicly. The Gms can't discuss it but have you asked the corps in question why their name was changed? Until you've got the reason and can post it here, there is absolutely no solid argument that can be formed against the decision, not that posting here will make one pick of difference - like I said, there are in game channels and they can use those if they think the GM decision is wrong. They can even ask for a senior GM in case there is, as you seem to be implying, some kind of favouritism and corruption going on, which I highly doubt is the case.
t3mpus II	Posted - 2005.11.07 10:55:00 - [16] Edited by: t3mpus II on 07/11/2005 10:58:53 Originally by: Nyphur EDIT: In fact, there it is right there in black and white on the Naming policy page: "# b. Character names may not: * Reflect, glorify or emulate any real-world group or organization, terrorist society, criminal elements, discriminating organizations or their leaders and figureheads. This includes the use of names of real-world military, political or religious groups." Simple breach of naming policy. It's entirely plausible that they just never heard of the corps until recently. The GMs cant be everywhere at once. I want to petition the name of the spaceship Zealot as a direct reference to a real-world religious group. Also ISS could be regarded as a reference to the Israeli Security Service, according to this
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:09:00 - [17] Edited by: Avon on 07/11/2005 11:09:02 Originally by: Nyphur EDIT: In fact, there it is right there in black and white on the Naming policy page: "# b. Character names may not: * Reflect, glorify or emulate any real-world group or organization, terrorist society, criminal elements, discriminating organizations or their leaders and figureheads. This includes the use of names of real-world military, political or religious groups." Simple breach of naming policy. It's entirely plausible that they just never heard of the corps until recently. The GMs cant be everywhere at once. ISS was a political group spreading socialism throughout educational establisments throughout the early 1900's. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Ifni	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:11:00 - [18] When you compare the activity of the devs, specifically the frontmen for CCP kieron and Oveur (/me waves), to other companies you have to realise that they are incredibly active in the community. I forget how many times Oveur was spotted at a player gathering, or when either has stepped in and helped explain the reasoning behind some change. Its always funny how when you give people an inch, they want a mile. In this case, your saying the dev activity is there, its just not enough since it doesn't agree with your idea of where the game should be! They have their own agenda here. Its to further their game, their livelihood and their future. How they implement it is up to them, but the part that really makes me sit up and take notice is that whne you bring valid argument, they sit up and listen. Originally by: Aquiesse Erus I see eve on the brink of ending itself. I know alot of people are going to come on here and say 'We love the game its never going to die' but people need to realise this game is about the community. Now i dont wish to speak for the community and i dont intend to but what i will do is show people what the community think. I think you need to take some of your own advice. You can't speak for the community as a whole any more than I can. So what makes your prophecies of disaster any more valid than my prophecy of a new influx and boom of EVE subscribers? EVE truly is maturing with the Chinese server on the horizon, the upcoming game "balances" ()and the ongoing dev/player interactions we're finally seeing the creation of a rounded game. Sure its been a long time coming and mistakes have been made, but thats life. Oveur > CUZ IM EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!!!!
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Aquiesse Erus Then why werent the names picked up before? How come alliances such as Band Of Brothers which refers to a world war 2 unit has not been changed? Alternatively, it could be a reference to a Hundred Years War unit... Shakespeare 4tw. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:19:00 - [20] Quote: The only people who know for sure WHY it's against the naming policy are the GMs and the S.A.S and 4s corporations, neither fo which have, to the best of my knowledge, explained why publicly. The Gms can't discuss it but have you asked the corps in question why their name was changed? See the corp forums. S.A.S. was changed because of the affilitaion of that name with an existing military unit. Quote: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. SAS is a three-letter acronym which may refer to: Australian Special Air Service Regiment, an Australian special forces unit San Antonio Spurs, an NBA basketball team SAS (browser), a microbrowser SAS (company), a shoe company SAS (Hip-Hop Group), a member of The Diplomats SAS Institute, a software company SAS strategic methodology The SAS System, software created by the SAS Institute Scandinavian Airlines System Schools Advisory Service Second Avenue Subway, a new subway line in New York City Semester at Sea, a shipboard academic program administered by the University of Pittsburgh Serial Attached SCSI, a serial communication protocol Shanghai American School, an international school in Shanghai Short Attention Span Side-Angle-Side, a formula used to prove the congruence of two triangles Singapore American School, an international school in Singapore Slovak Academy of Sciences SociÚtÚ par actions simplifiÚe, a type of corporation in France Society for Amateur Scientists, an American organisation Southern All Stars, a Japanese rock band Space Access Society Space activity suit Spatially Aware Sublayer, an optional sublayer of the MAC that provides spatial reuse in Resilient Packet Ring Special Air Service, the principal special forces organisation of the British Army Special Air Service of New Zealand (NZ SAS), a New Zealand special forces unit Special Activities Staff, the CIA's paramilitary division Sports Argument Stadium, the sports forum on Something Awful Forums Statement on Auditing Standards Sas may also be a name, not an abbreviation. . Now, to me, this makes it look about as valid a namechage as would be changing the ticker of ISS don't you think. Of course, I dont want that. It hink it's ridiculous. But what I do want is the information of wether the SAS namechange was done on request (petition), or on the inspiration of some watchfull GM that saw a SAS pilot ingame and thought "well, thats one hell of a sploit, lets **** em over". I think it's the former, which is exactly what DOES make this a topic for public discussion: "How to use the GM's as your griefing tool, lesson one"
Count TaSessine	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Avon ISS was a political group spreading socialism throughout educational establisments throughout the early 1900's. lol - where did you dig that up? How about 'Interstellar Starbase Syndicate'? I dare you to find a realworld look-a-like to that Chairman, ISS Now open:
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Count TaSessine Originally by: Avon ISS was a political group spreading socialism throughout educational establisments throughout the early 1900's. lol - where did you dig that up? How about 'Interstellar Starbase Syndicate'? I dare you to find a realworld look-a-like to that The sad thing is that I didn't dig it up. My mind is full of useless trivia like that. It is a curse. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Count TaSessine Originally by: Avon ISS was a political group spreading socialism throughout educational establisments throughout the early 1900's. lol - where did you dig that up? How about 'Interstellar Starbase Syndicate'? I dare you to find a realworld look-a-like to that We are not serious about your name being wrong Count. I'm sure neither Avon nor me wishes the ISS ticker any harm. However, compare the quote from wikipedia about both SAS and ISS as an acronym, and you should see both are in violation, or neither is. The real matter is that this namechange was petition-inspired. Which is the best griefing tool against alliances one can think of. 1 billion isk in direct damage done, by virtue of a petition. Now, who can come up with something against the S-A ticker... Damn, that's going to be hard... catch my drift ?
Seleene	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:25:00 - [24] Oveur, 1.) We love you, but the corp name changes are really getting out of hand. A lot of people have made some very good points on that issue. At the least it should be explained why now these names are being changed after over two years of them being left alone. 2.) No one gave you permission to remove your 'Not MC' sig. Put it back. Cheers. - 'You have foolishly engaged the MC in Empire space. Prepare to suffer the consequences!'
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Marcus Aurelius We are not serious about your name being wrong Count. I'm sure neither Avon nor me wishes the ISS ticker any harm. Heh, I hope he didn't take it like that. Just making a point, no offence meant. /me logs in and hits F12 ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Tar om	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:31:00 - [26] I saw a guy with a ship called Combat18 at one point... I guess I should have petitioned him. (googling combat 18 is not recommended at work) -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net "The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
Professor McFly	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:37:00 - [27] This is all wrong. Play any other successful MMO and you won't find devs half as receptive to ideas, or willing to discuss things with the players as you do here. The devs here treat us with respect, and it's awesome. The very fact that you got a reply STRAIGHT FROM the main Producer of the game should tell you something. I'm not saying they're perfect, but give them credit where it's due, huh?
Alkad Mzu	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Oveur Regarding the name changes, this has got nothing to do with "political correctness", this is simply a breach of our very old name policy which hasn't changed in years. I guess someone has to go out on a limb here. Oveur, that statement is worthless, and if you'd even bothered looking into the cases referred to by the thread starter you'd see that in the case of 4S, both the GM and the senior GM conveniently failed to explain what part of the naming policy we were in breach of. How do you expect your customers to respond to such behaviour? Without getting into the nitty-gritty details, wouldn't you say it's fair for us to expect that when you enforce your EULA in a way that implies significant reduction in quality for the customer, you at least give the customer a valid reason? This case is just so unbelievably silly, fact is you do not have a leg to stand on, you can not point to any part of the EULA and argue we are in breach of it, so you retort to "it's our game and we do what we want with it", and quite frankly it's ticking me off to a degree I never thought i'd be capable of within the frames of a friggin game. But fine CCP, if you preferr insulting customers in the hundreds over ignoring the feelings of one, I guess you can have it your way. Which you obviously will regardless. I apologise to 4S for having posted in this thread. However, for breaching the forum rules on several counts, I offer no apology. Will sing for funny sig
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Professor McFly Didn't say it did, but coming here shouting the sky is falling is a bit far Oh, thats just the op, not me then Look, this is by no means a gamestopper or even remotely one in itself. However, it's opened a way to abuse the gm system. What are they going to do ? Check wether the petitioning account is related by IP to an account that has a main that is at some sort of disagreement or enmity status with (a member of) the petition corp/alliance/acharacter .... Riiight. So, lets all start petitioning our enemies after looking up if there's something remotely nasty on the net about their names. Hey. Go wild, petition npc's too.
s4mp3r0r	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:51:00 - [30] Edited by: s4mp3r0r on 07/11/2005 11:51:33 Originally by: Count TaSessine Originally by: Avon ISS was a political group spreading socialism throughout educational establisments throughout the early 1900's. lol - where did you dig that up? How about 'Interstellar Starbase Syndicate'? I dare you to find a realworld look-a-like to that International Space Station Cleaning ISS So i guess your name will be changed as well.. GG CCP or was it CCP or CCP or CCP PS : You loose. Proud CEO of the I have a mirel yirrin corpse and do freaky things to it club. Convo me ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ mirel yirrin Ö" Bumpersticker!!
Aelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:54:00 - [31] Top of the line server hardware cost alot of RL money, so CCP is giving ingame items to earn RL money. If this is an emergency measure i can understand, perhaps they need all the cash they can get at this time to stop the lag. If this becomes standard procedure even when the hardware/money problems are solved then oldies like me may as well be leaving the game. For the corp names i don't agree on changing the names unless its evident policy breacking.
s4mp3r0r	Posted - 2005.11.07 11:57:00 - [32] ROFLCOPTER Proud CEO of the I have a mirel yirrin corpse and do freaky things to it club. Convo me ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ mirel yirrin Ö" Bumpersticker!!
Mindlles	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:02:00 - [33] man what are u guys takling about. The raffle thingy is good, Get more players , more targets yay, And if somone does a god job and recruites alot off friends to the game, great, and he get a reward worth 2bilj isk. so what? :P corp names, who really care :P Stop nabbing , start shooting more =) http://asuya.eve-killboard.net/?a=home
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:05:00 - [34] On semi-related note Marcus Aurelius just happened to be real-world both military and political leader. Rod, i'd start getting used to the idea you'll find him as "Caldari Citizen 69696969" in the near future -.^
s4mp3r0r	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:10:00 - [35] look ma, even more funnies.... Jove 1.a Jove 1.b Jove 2 Proud CEO of the I have a mirel yirrin corpse and do freaky things to it club. Convo me ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ mirel yirrin Ö" Bumpersticker!!
s4mp3r0r	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:13:00 - [36] Edited by: s4mp3r0r on 07/11/2005 12:15:58 Edited by: s4mp3r0r on 07/11/2005 12:14:06 Edited by: s4mp3r0r on 07/11/2005 12:13:23 Caldari :S Amarr D.E.D 1 D.E.D 2 Concord Ok, getting cramps now. Proud CEO of the I have a mirel yirrin corpse and do freaky things to it club. Convo me ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ mirel yirrin Ö" Bumpersticker!!
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:22:00 - [37] Originally by: j0sephine On semi-related note Marcus Aurelius just happened to be real-world both military and political leader. Rod, i'd start getting used to the idea you'll find him as "Caldari Citizen 69696969" in the near future -.^ TouchÚ`
Everbane	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:38:00 - [38] I'd wager that if the corp in question was called the IRA or something similar the attitude in this thread would be completly different. The posters here would be the first mashing away at the petition button and ranting about it on the forums. The guy who recently used a corp with fanatical relegious overtones was slated, petitioned and multi-war dec'd until he changed the name. Not offensive until it offends you I guess.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 12:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Everbane I'd wager that if the corp in question was called the IRA or something similar the attitude in this thread would be completly different. Well, hello capt. obvious Would that be because the acronym SAS is in no way related to an offending RL example maybe ? While just maybe the acronym IRA would be an example of a name choic anyone with the least bit of historic knowledge would simple NOT choose purely because how obviously wrong it would be ? I mean, you can relativate everything, even an IRA acronym. But that's not the problem here is it ? The problem is that players and gm's should be able to rely on eachothers common sense. We dont create corps with obviously offensive names and in return they dont go around indiscriminately banzoring and warning us decent folk without a mature explanation of why they do it. And whatever they do, they dont go and let themselves be used by the very immature idiots they are supposed to keep from offending us !
s4mp3r0r	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:04:00 - [40] Edited by: s4mp3r0r on 07/11/2005 13:04:40 Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Originally by: Everbane I'd wager that if the corp in question was called the IRA or something similar the attitude in this thread would be completly different. Well, hello capt. obvious Well, there's a char named capt obvious, maybe he should be banned for getting used in day to day English. My alt char mr p00pypants should be banned because it offends babies :S This char should be banned cus it has mp3 in its name :S Where would it stop ? Proud CEO of the I have a mirel yirrin corpse and do freaky things to it club. Convo me ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ mirel yirrin Ö" Bumpersticker!!
KIAHicks	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:07:00 - [41] Edited by: KIAHicks on 07/11/2005 13:10:07 Originally by: Everbane I'd wager that if the corp in question was called the IRA or something similar the attitude in this thread would be completly different. The posters here would be the first mashing away at the petition button and ranting about it on the forums. The guy who recently used a corp with fanatical relegious overtones was slated, petitioned and multi-war dec'd until he changed the name. Not offensive until it offends you I guess. I think it depends upon the NUMBER of people it offends. If you offend a majority of players then it should be removed. If you offend one or two people and yet the majority who could potentially see it as offensive but do not, it should stay. As an example, someone makes a corp called "SATAN". Now lets say 12 christian and 4 none christian players petition it. Should it be changed. NO. However if petitions are received from say 100-200 or more players then it clearly is offending the majority. Why we can see a "City of God" in the game and that is deemed acceptable, yet not a "City of Satan" which should just be a term for an evil place, I don't know. http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/03-july-01.asp Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
corporal hicks	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:17:00 - [42] Originally by: Everbane I'd wager that if the corp in question was called the IRA or something similar the attitude in this thread would be completly different. The posters here would be the first mashing away at the petition button and ranting about it on the forums. The guy who recently used a corp with fanatical relegious overtones was slated, petitioned and multi-war dec'd until he changed the name. Not offensive until it offends you I guess. History is written by the Victors...the IRA as a example is a offensive name now days...but what it started was not. Fighting for ones freedom from a oppresive goverment which the British were in the early 1900's to what they are fighting at now has changed so much and the methods also. IRA= Irish repulican Army, watch the movie Micheal Collins and see, they were Freedom fighters fighting againest a conquering power to free there country, much like the resistance in ww2 againest the germans ect. Ok now days the IRA are scum tbh like most terrorist organisations. Now the SAS are as much Scum as any other organistaion that kills, all killing is wrong be it terrorist or otherwise, sure the SAS have commited crimes of there own most military organisations have, just the SAS are alot more secretive, really in the whole one is better that other is no excuse, better the devil you know than the devil you dont. Drawing comparisons between one organisation and another is pointless in one persons eyes there is nothing wrong with the IRA or SAS but in another persons eyes the role is revesed. Ask the people of guildford and Birmingham of what they think of the IRA and you might get a hatefull answer then ask the people of Derry what they think of the British Army and the SAS and see if they sing there praises. They are both different and yet both the same so one might be offended by a corp called IRA and another by a corp called SAS. Personnally as I am Irish all I can say is It dont bother me if your IRA or SAS or whatever...its only a game... " Stay Frosty "
ChefAce	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:23:00 - [43] Quote: This includes the use of names of real-world military, political or religious groups." You'll need to rename Eve as everything it has to do with refers to some sort of a religous aspect. You'd better be ready to ban yourselves for breaching your own "EULA" -------------
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:25:00 - [44] If alliances/corps can't be named after real life military units, why has Band of Brothers kept their name? - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:28:00 - [45] Exactly. And you BET some people will be filing complaints about corp names if this stands. Including me. (My own corpname, to be precise). "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
ChefAce	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:31:00 - [46] EULA You'll need to banZ0r the EULA now. -------------
ChefAce	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:34:00 - [47] EULA Texas Damn! You ripped off a whole town too. Banz0r, banZ0r, banZ0r! -------------
Everbane	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:36:00 - [48] Originally by: corporal hicks Originally by: Everbane I'd wager that if the corp in question was called the IRA or something similar the attitude in this thread would be completly different. The posters here would be the first mashing away at the petition button and ranting about it on the forums. The guy who recently used a corp with fanatical relegious overtones was slated, petitioned and multi-war dec'd until he changed the name. Not offensive until it offends you I guess. History is written by the Victors...the IRA as a example is a offensive name now days...but what it started was not. Fighting for ones freedom from a oppresive goverment which the British were in the early 1900's to what they are fighting at now has changed so much and the methods also. IRA= Irish repulican Army, watch the movie Micheal Collins and see, they were Freedom fighters fighting againest a conquering power to free there country, much like the resistance in ww2 againest the germans ect. Ok now days the IRA are scum tbh like most terrorist organisations. Now the SAS are as much Scum as any other organistaion that kills, all killing is wrong be it terrorist or otherwise, sure the SAS have commited crimes of there own most military organisations have, just the SAS are alot more secretive, really in the whole one is better that other is no excuse, better the devil you know than the devil you dont. Drawing comparisons between one organisation and another is pointless in one persons eyes there is nothing wrong with the IRA or SAS but in another persons eyes the role is revesed. Ask the people of guildford and Birmingham of what they think of the IRA and you might get a hatefull answer then ask the people of Derry what they think of the British Army and the SAS and see if they sing there praises. They are both different and yet both the same so one might be offended by a corp called IRA and another by a corp called SAS. Personnally as I am Irish all I can say is It dont bother me if your IRA or SAS or whatever...its only a game... What ^^ he said. One persons terrorists are anothers freedom fighters. SAS are killing real people in RL as we speak. If they killed your son you would find them offensive but they're not so you think it's ok.
Majir Kry	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:36:00 - [49] Was 4S changed because of complaints from my childs school that has a class/form 4S? As least with 4S i can see some undertones but SAS? have all corps with SAS in the title been affected? or just one? If it is just one I think CCP have been victimising players. Surely with a bit of googling a large number of corps are going to subject to petitions. I think this is the most bizarre act CCP have taken since I started playing and it could lead down a very dangerous road. I can forsee a never ending number of petitions if CCP dont make a serious statement, after all both corps that I am aware of that have been affected arant even words, just initals.
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:41:00 - [50] Originally by: Everbane If they killed your son you would find them offensive but they're not so you think it's ok. Yeah, but if a bloke who drove a car with Avon tyres ran over your son and killed him, would that be reason enough to have my name changed? There is a big difference between personal perception and general perception. The general perception of the S.A.S is that they are soldiers doing a very specialised task, not murderers on a killing spree. The petition system needs to be based on general perception, not the grudges (real or not) of individuals. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Slink Grinsdikild	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:41:00 - [51] CCP, please get it sorted. I don't know whats going on here, I understand S.A.S are quite a high profile corp with enemies. Could it be a conflict of interests by a GM? Maybe a victim of an ingame dispute/war of some kind? Whatever it is, Something is rotten in the state of Iceland.
Flyyn	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Aquiesse Erus Originally by: Marcus Aurelius ohh, none of this would make me quit btw. The op is utterly wrong in that. I was refering to the corps such as SAS and 4S. After nearly 3 years of making a name for themselfs they get their corp name changed. Its enough to want to make them leave im sure. S.A.S....Special Air Squadron Enlish military... 4S Faild corporation that got ran out of bussness by 3M. Other then those above I have no Idea who the heck your talking about?
corporal hicks	Posted - 2005.11.07 13:55:00 - [53] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Everbane If they killed your son you would find them offensive but they're not so you think it's ok. Yeah, but if a bloke who drove a car with Avon tyres ran over your son and killed him, would that be reason enough to have my name changed? There is a big difference between personal perception and general perception. The general perception of the S.A.S is that they are soldiers doing a very specialised task, not murderers on a killing spree. The petition system needs to be based on general perception, not the grudges (real or not) of individuals. Avon that was my point, history is wriitten by the Victors...you might find IRA offensive because they did A abd B, thats all fair enough sure it was on TV ect and big trials. Now can you truely tell me SAS have not done A and B? sure they have but you have no idea about it because goverments dont want you to know about it. So in the end any name can be offesive to anyone if you want to take it in any context. Take your alliance name for example a name based on maybe a shakespear play but really based on a TV series about a US army regiment, now after seeing the atrocities carried out by the US army in Iraq on the old TV and the abuse of pow's by US army personnal in Iraq I really have to say I find it morally wrong that someone could name a alliance after a group of soldiers from that same army! ( ofc thats if I did find your name offensive and cared ) So in the end my perception is my own but I wont force it on anyone, name your corp and alliance whatever really it does not bother me, I just find it silly from CCP that what they find offensive is not what the community find offensive, so far hundreds of posts as regards the names of 4S and SAS and none so far saying great job CCP. its all this is wrong and change it back, the players have spoken, power to the players. " Stay Frosty "
Frank Dashwood	Posted - 2005.11.07 14:33:00 - [54] Wow, corp names have been changed.... its not April 1st is it? /me wants some of what ccp's gm's are smoking. I was gonna say something else, but it would be an unconstructive rant, so i'll just go start googling corp names and get the petitions in eh?
Everbane	Posted - 2005.11.07 14:40:00 - [55] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Everbane If they killed your son you would find them offensive but they're not so you think it's ok. Yeah, but if a bloke who drove a car with Avon tyres ran over your son and killed him, would that be reason enough to have my name changed? There is a big difference between personal perception and general perception. The general perception of the S.A.S is that they are soldiers doing a very specialised task, not murderers on a killing spree. The petition system needs to be based on general perception, not the grudges (real or not) of individuals. Don't get me wrong, personally I do not find any of these names offensive. I am pointing out why rules like this exist. CCP have clients from many countries, relegions and have to abide by the laws of many countries. It's not devs that make these rules it's the legal people advising them. Also by the nature of MMOGs you have to be seen to be fair and not favor one group. You cannot have a rule "You cannot do this [bad thing] (but if your in UK / Iceland / a hot chick we will turn a blind eye.)" Obviously someone wanted to make an issue out of the 4s and it's set the ball rolling - other people are moaning about it in this thread and in the next breath saying they are going to start petitioning names also - no doubt thats how it started in the first place, not with CCP. You will find the likes of SoE far, far stricter and petty about naming policies than CCP.
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2005.11.07 14:47:00 - [56] Wait a minute... If alliance/corp names can't be based on RL militaries, then how come NORAD is still NORAD? We all know that they stole the name from US airforce's survey unit. I'm glad we misspelled our corp name since othervice we might get it changed as The Galactic Federation is clearly ripped off from Metroid BTW, those lonks wer really funny! "Amarr garage doors: Comes with free Minmatar slave that opens the dorr for you"
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.11.07 15:12:00 - [57] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2005 15:12:54 Originally by: Aelius BTW what "4S" stands for? From what i picked up its some military unit's logo, they apparently killed loads of people and have a record of war crimes. I think... Edit; While were at it, could someone find something offensive related to "zzz" "3z" or "ZNL", i really should have given my main a more ic name ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Aelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 15:16:00 - [58] Edited by: Aelius on 07/11/2005 15:21:26 b. Character names may not: Quote: Be obscene, vulgar, sexually explicit, offensive, hurtful, harmful, promote drugs, profane, anti-*, and ethnically, racially or sexually offensive or impart any real-world hostility toward a specific nationality, race or religion. Who needs to do that? NPC agents are doing it for ages when they ask drugs to award you with an "offer" Quote: anti-* Forum "SENSORZ B4T" excelent aims "Name Policy" wreckening for OMGWTFDMG
Solacia	Posted - 2005.11.07 15:22:00 - [59] Congrats Gms, becuase you didn't try to apply a simple bit of common sense you've opened up a big can of worms.
The Cosmopolite	Posted - 2005.11.07 15:31:00 - [60] I'd like to ignore the specifics as that's between CCP and the corps in question. No-one helps them by posting in these threads unfortunately. However, I think an issue has been raised here that I honestly think CCP need to at least look at from a policy point-of-view. What appears to be the case now is that a corporation name can be petitioned on the basis of it breaking the individual character name policy. It seems likely to me that such petitions are therefore being dealt with by GMs on the same basis and with the same procedures as individual character names being petitioned. I'm not pointing that out to say there is a loophole. I'm not pointing that out to say that CCP have no policy with regard to corporation names. They clearly have a policy with regard to all 'player-chosen' names whether they be characters, corps or alliances. I would like to suggest, in a constructive spirit, that CCP give serious thought to the procedures that GMs must follow being a little different in the case of corporate/alliance names than in the case of individual character names. The reason I believe this may be desirable is that when action is taken against an individual character for a name that potentially violates the policy, that is essentially a personal issue for that player with little effect for anyone else. However, when a corporation or alliance name is being considered with regard to the policy, you have a situation that can be directly effecting hundreds of players. In terms of EVE as a whole, when it is prominent organisations (those I suspect most likely to attract petitions of this kind), you are potentially affecting the whole player-base. Ultimately, GMing an individual character's name is small beer. The person in question won't think so but no-one else is likely to care much. It's rather different with a corporation or alliance. In particular, I would ask CCP to give serious thought to amending the operation of the policy such that the name of a corporation is not actually changed until all possible appeal procedures are exhausted. This will, I believe, have a beneficial effect for all parties and help keep such controversies firmly where they belong until the final resolution: between CCP and the corporations in question. I think it is fairly urgent that this issue be considered by CCP. There are many people who think it is perfectly OK to wage 'war by petition' in a deeply unsporting manner. This new way of doing so will be noticed by such people and they will use it. Sad but I fear inevitable. The Cosmopolite Voice of the Freecaptains Jericho Fraction
dabster	Posted - 2005.11.07 15:40:00 - [61] Edited by: dabster on 07/11/2005 15:42:40 Originally by: Aelius BTW what "4S" stands for? It translates to "Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava", which back to english means "only unity can save the serbs". It is a very old national slogan that through history has been used by 'bad' people, aswell as pretty much every Serb alive. Edit; if i recall correctly it is also a part of the national symbol being used by, yes, every serb alive with a sense of nationality. ___________________________ Chicks dig Brutor's
Plutoinum	Posted - 2005.11.07 15:44:00 - [62] Quote: Be obscene, vulgar, sexually explicit, offensive, hurtful, harmful, promote drugs, profane, anti-***, and ethnically, racially or sexually offensive or impart any real-world hostility toward a specific nationality, race or religion. Good that I have a typo in my name, so otherwise someone might try to petition me because I glorify the use of plutonium in bombs or whatever I hope that they decide with some common sense. If someone petitions a name that exists for a really long time then they should provide a real reason why that name is offensive. Not just because e.g. SAS is the abbreviation of some special forces in RL too. If someone thinks that the 3 letter SAS are offensive because of that and petitions it, he should visit his doctor.
KIAHicks	Posted - 2005.11.07 15:49:00 - [63] As someone else said CCP should be considering name changes only based on the GENERAL player base opinion of the name, not one small groups interpretation. Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
Aelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 15:54:00 - [64] Originally by: Plutoinum Good that I have a typo in my name, so otherwise someone might try to petition me because I glorify the use of plutonium in bombs or whatever SHHHCHHH, be quiet! You are drawing attentions to my sig
Xthril Ranger	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:00:00 - [65] I am just wondering. To me SAS is a scandinavian airline. How can an internationak corporation with flights to all over the world find the name SAS acceptable , but in a game of military might it is too offensive? hirr
Bozse	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:06:00 - [66] Originally by: Oveur Regarding the name changes, this has got nothing to do with "political correctness", this is simply a breach of our very old name policy which hasn't changed in years. I realy must ask u in what way "4S Corp" is a breach as it can stand for just about a milion things, the same as if i would name a corp "5F Corp". It's a serious question that have been bothering me all day as it's as neutral as can be imo.
Everbane	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:11:00 - [67] Originally by: Aelius Originally by: Plutoinum Good that I have a typo in my name, so otherwise someone might try to petition me because I glorify the use of plutonium in bombs or whatever SHHHCHHH, be quiet! You are drawing attentions to my sig It's clear to me you have an illegal drugs lab depicted in that sig - it's banzor time for you sonny!
Velsharoon	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:15:00 - [68] Its pathetic that long standing corps are losing their names because of an obvious ingame issue. If your going to rename corps I demand its logically followed through or else your showing blatant bias agaisnt these corps. Start of with band of brothers please (purely because they are big). You dont have the guts do you even tho its equally valid. Give them their damn names back and stop being lame.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:22:00 - [69] SS stands for Schutzstaffel (SS). The SS was ****s personal bodyguards. Like all other **-organisations at that time they comitted war crimes around europe. Im sure most things are a synonym for something really. But now ill write a petition for the name "Band of Brothers (BoB". "We brake for nobody"
Rekh Wuthrich	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:27:00 - [70] Two words regarding the name change situation: "Slippery slope." I sincerely hope the change is retracted in the near future and everyone can calm down.
dimensionZ	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:29:00 - [71] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock SS stands for Schutzstaffel (SS). The SS was ****s personal bodyguards. Like all other **-organisations at that time they comitted war crimes around europe. Im sure most things are a synonym for something really. But now ill write a petition for the name "Band of Brothers (BoB". You are really really really really pathetic. You see a bad call from the GMs, so you decide to "exploit" the situation in order to annoy us. Pfff. ----------------------------------------
Aelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:40:00 - [72] Edited by: Aelius on 07/11/2005 16:41:53 BoB? SAS? 4S? can you enlighten me why these names need changing?! "CU" means "see you" in english and you don't see me petitioning people for saying that. ("CU" means "ass" in my native language sounds like "KU")
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:47:00 - [73] True Band of Brothers is RL example. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0185906/ http://www.historychannel.com/bandofbrothers/ Lol nerfbat hehehe
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:47:00 - [74] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 07/11/2005 11:09:02 Originally by: Nyphur EDIT: In fact, there it is right there in black and white on the Naming policy page: "# b. Character names may not: * Reflect, glorify or emulate any real-world group or organization, terrorist society, criminal elements, discriminating organizations or their leaders and figureheads. This includes the use of names of real-world military, political or religious groups." Unless they were called the "Interstellar Starbase Syndicate", there's no problem. As I'm aware, SAS didn't bother making up an alias for their acronym. They weren't changed for similarity to a real-life military group but for being exactly equal to a real life military group. Simple breach of naming policy. It's entirely plausible that they just never heard of the corps until recently. The GMs cant be everywhere at once. ISS was a political group spreading socialism throughout educational establisments throughout the early 1900's.
Tamrack	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:51:00 - [75] I did not know that an Individual Retirement Arrangement could be offensive. http://www.ricedelman.com/planning/retirement/ira.asp
Avon	Posted - 2005.11.07 16:58:00 - [76] Originally by: Nyphur Unless they were called the "Interstellar Starbase Syndicate", there's no problem. As I'm aware, SAS didn't bother making up an alias for their acronym. They weren't changed for similarity to a real-life military group but for being exactly equal to a real life military group. But isn't that making an assumption as to what the acronym (assuming it is one) stands for? Besides, if I started a corp called "Kool Killer Katz" and made the ticker "***" I bet it would still be removed if petitioned. How can you be so sure that ISS would be treated any differently? ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Drilla	Posted - 2005.11.07 17:05:00 - [77] Guess it's time to corpname/google surfing. GMs get ready for an azzload of petitions Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost!
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2005.11.07 17:13:00 - [78] lol, it is a slippery slope. if corpnames are checked and refused on creation (ala dictonary check etc..)its one thing but if 2+ year old corp names are getting changed due to someone wanting revenge and playing the books then it opens up abuse. Why not give the corp an opportunity to change the name to something other that EvE corp XXXXXX.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2005.11.07 17:31:00 - [79] I hereby demand that the C4 alliance has its name changed to the Happy Muffin Alliance becuase c4 is an evil explosive used to destroy little timmys house and happy muffins are nice.
slip66	Posted - 2005.11.07 17:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Oveur I have already said everything I have to say on the Raffle in another post that was locked on this topic. Regarding the name changes, this has got nothing to do with "political correctness", this is simply a breach of our very old name policy which hasn't changed in years. yes but these corps have had thier names for "years". If you want to pay more attention to this old policy then give these guys a legacy pass.
F'nog	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:03:00 - [81] Originally by: Count TaSessine Originally by: Avon ISS was a political group spreading socialism throughout educational establisments throughout the early 1900's. lol - where did you dig that up? How about 'Interstellar Starbase Syndicate'? I dare you to find a realworld look-a-like to that From the naming rules: Quote: Reflect, glorify or emulate any real-world group or organization, terrorist society, criminal elements, discriminating organizations or their leaders and figureheads. This includes the use of names of real-world military, political or religious groups. Syndicate is a term used to refer to the Mob by some groups. Al Capone particularly liked it. Therefore you are directly referencing criminal organizations with your name. Rediculous? Yes. Any different than 4S or SAS? Nope. Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon

kieron	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:12:00 - [82] I know there are going to be players that disagree with my reply to this thread. As much as I try, I know I cannot make 100% of the community happy. Having said that... CCP's character and corporation naming policies have been in effect for many years, the EULA and Terms of Service are one of the first documents laid down by any gaming company. These documents are designed with the protection of both, the company and the player base in mind. All intentions and interpretations can be misconstrued or abused. The naming policies and decisions made over the last few days are being discussed internally and a decision will be reached. Will this discussion result in a change to the naming policy? That is one possibility. It might also result in a name change for many corporations out there. Be careful with what you wish for. The outcome may be entirely different than the wish. In the interim, there are some corporations petitioning other corporations with names that have real life counterparts or connotations. It could be said that these corporations are griefing other corporations in an attempt to make their point. This MUST cease. Yes, I use griefing purposefully. Abusing the support system to make a point and cause hardship for other players is griefing and another violation of the EULA. As I stated, the topic is being discussed internally and a decision will be reached. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

dealsrus	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:15:00 - [83] Originally by: kieron I know there are going to be players that disagree with my reply to this thread. As much as I try, I know I cannot make 100% of the community happy. Having said that... CCP's character and corporation naming policies have been in effect for many years, the EULA and Terms of Service are one of the first documents laid down by any gaming company. These documents are designed with the protection of both, the company and the player base in mind. All intentions and interpretations can be misconstrued or abused. The naming policies and decisions made over the last few days are being discussed internally and a decision will be reached. Will this discussion result in a change to the naming policy? That is one possibility. It might also result in a name change for many corporations out there. Be careful with what you wish for. The outcome may be entirely different than the wish. In the interim, there are some corporations petitioning other corporations with names that have real life counterparts or connotations. It could be said that these corporations are griefing other corporations in an attempt to make their point. This MUST cease. Yes, I use griefing purposefully. Abusing the support system to make a point and cause hardship for other players is griefing and another violation of the EULA. As I stated, the topic is being discussed internally and a decision will be reached. this is all well and good but it doesnt explain why it has taken 2 years or more to decide that a corps name is offensive does it?
Leon 026	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:23:00 - [84] Edited by: Leon 026 on 07/11/2005 18:24:43 The real world unit name of the Band of Brothers (which is the name of a book, not a regiment/division/unit) is the 506th of the 101st Airborne. Band of Brothers isnt the name of the unit, while SAS, is the 22nd Special Air Service regiment, which is something else entirely. Naming violations is all good, but if one name is changed, then all the other name have to be changed accordingly. ie. the character Himmler. I personally dont see why 4S would be changed, and not Himmler. Because Himmler is a known figurehead, while I suppose 4S is a little more "unknown". ------------------------------- Leon / LN026 [ITEMP] Templarii Foreign Legion
JoCool	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:26:00 - [85] Originally by: dealsrus this is all well and good but it doesnt explain why it has taken 2 years or more to decide that a corps name is offensive does it? Because some GM was suckin the ****pipe while the heads at CCP had no control over him. They cannot monitor their GMs 24/7 but shall still revert wrong descisions and look into the case such that similar bad things do not happen again. That is what they're doing now. _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool

kieron	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:27:00 - [86] Originally by: dealsrus this is all well and good but it doesnt explain why it has taken 2 years or more to decide that a corps name is offensive does it? The GMs and CCP staff deal with issues like this when a petition is submitted, an e-mail sent to the Devs, or they notice it in-game. We're not omnipotent and cannot catch everything immediately. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Top Hat	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:29:00 - [87] Originally by: kieron Originally by: dealsrus this is all well and good but it doesnt explain why it has taken 2 years or more to decide that a corps name is offensive does it? The GMs and CCP staff deal with issues like this when a petition is submitted, an e-mail sent to the Devs, or they notice it in-game. We're not omnipotent and cannot catch everything immediately. This is pathetic, the GMs are pathetic. You're going to get a massive flood of petitions now stating how either one of the ingame NPC corps, ingame ships or something similar, player name or corporation violates some form of copyright. You've dug your own grave, enjoy.
Kyguard	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:34:00 - [88] Edited by: Kyguard on 07/11/2005 18:36:26 Edited by: Kyguard on 07/11/2005 18:35:55 All latin derived corp names should be changed because this is not a latin game, the latin language is no longer in use, therefore their current use in this game insults a once great language. If people wish to honour Latin, it must be done in temples and religious buildings. GMs, Devs, you're under a lot of fire these days, it's time you got your act together, before you really lose it. Quote: You've dug your own grave, enjoy. Yup -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Seleene	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:36:00 - [89] Originally by: kieron Originally by: dealsrus this is all well and good but it doesnt explain why it has taken 2 years or more to decide that a corps name is offensive does it? The GMs and CCP staff deal with issues like this when a petition is submitted, an e-mail sent to the Devs, or they notice it in-game. We're not omnipotent and cannot catch everything immediately. kieron, here is a question: was there ANY attempt made on CCP's part to contact the corp(s) in question and ask them what THEY thought thier 'offensive' name meant? SAS = Special Attack Services? 4S Corp = We are happy elves who dance under the moonlight? Am I going to wake up one morning and discover that over two years of my own gaming efforts in making BDCI a known commodity is all wasted when my corp is renamed "Minmatar Corp 45921"? Will all of my videos featuring the name be banned at that point as well? I'm not trying to be difficult. These are VERY REAL concerns that I'm sure a lot of players share. - 'You have foolishly engaged the MC in Empire space. Prepare to suffer the consequences!'
Christopher Scott	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:37:00 - [90] ISS is probably one of the easiest corp tickers to petition and change, actually. It has very strong political ties in multiple areas, the biggest being the Isreali Secret Service, which has a very strong history with global terrorism, and most notably, Al Queda and ***** Bin Laden. So yes, be very careful what you wish for.
Kyguard	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:39:00 - [91] Edited by: Kyguard on 07/11/2005 18:40:25 Quote: I'm not trying to be difficult. These are VERY REAL concerns that I'm sure a lot of players share. Hell, they want to be difficult, they pay the price. Acting lenient and sympathetic with this issue isn't going to solve anything, never did, never will. Now remaining polite and mannered is another issue. Now, I'd hate to see so many deserving corps get a name change due to this thread, what I would like to see however are these biased decisions to cease and corrections be made. However, if you change one, all must change. -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Christopher Scott	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:46:00 - [92] VOTF has also been victim to name-change griefing, as well as our allies. Depsite counter-petitioning the issue, GMs sat on their hands and did nothing. We have never retaliated with such similar griefing tactics, as it is possibly the lowest of the low you can go in this game. It's even worse than exploiting ingame mechanics, which only cause temporary harm. Griefing such as this will affect many people on a large scale, and it is permenant. I am still baffled to the blind eye that CCP has turned on this issue for such a long time. IF you were to poll the EVE community on their trust in GMs handling griefing and exploit issues, you would get a very low number.

kieron	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:50:00 - [93] Originally by: Top Hat You're going to get a massive flood of petitions now stating how either one of the ingame NPC corps, ingame ships or something similar, player name or corporation violates some form of copyright. One, this has been the policy for as long as I can remember. Two, see this post, paying particular attention to the paragraphs mentioning griefing. Actions will be taken against those that abuse the petition system. Three, leave your comments about the GM team off of the forums. Thank you very much. They do a very thankless job and should not have to put up with uninformed opinions. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Top Hat	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:55:00 - [94] Originally by: kieron Originally by: Top Hat You're going to get a massive flood of petitions now stating how either one of the ingame NPC corps, ingame ships or something similar, player name or corporation violates some form of copyright. One, this has been the policy for as long as I can remember. Two, see this post, paying particular attention to the paragraphs mentioning griefing. Actions will be taken against those that abuse the petition system. Three, leave your comments about the GM team off of the forums. Thank you very much. They do a very thankless job and should not have to put up with uninformed opinions. One - If it was policy from day 1, then surely you're GMs have been doing a rubbish job considering SAS corp has been around for ages and they never once spotted it ingame or on the forums? Its a rather high profile corp.. Two - Dude, its not griefing the system if people are merely petitioning a name that violates the EULA, unless you wanna warn/ban people for petitioning what has just been made precedent. Three - Ill leave my comments off the forums, when they start doing their job properly.

kieron	Posted - 2005.11.07 18:59:00 - [95] Originally by: Seleene kieron, here is a question: was there ANY attempt made on CCP's part to contact the corp(s) in question and ask them what THEY thought thier 'offensive' name meant? I'm not sure if an attempt to contact was made. I'm still finding out the events that transpired myself. As I stated a few posts earlier, there is internal discussion over the changes made. While there are some that would disagree, the GMs do an excellent job operating under the guidelines that they have been given. Common sense usually wins the day. When it has lost and that loss pointed out, resolution is quickly made. I think BDCI is safe enough. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:00:00 - [96] This whole situation sucks. Not because GMs had to look into the situation, or because they changed the name. It sucks because they made zero effort of doing it properly. Five minutes of google search will tell you all you need to know about the most common meanings of acronyms. Five minutes of convo with any member of said corps and you'll find out their intentions aren't remotely bad. Five minutes of asking another GM whether its logically sound to slap over a hundred loyal customers in the face because of personal interpretations. Five minutes is all it would have taken to avoid this crap. If you can't devote that much time to a situation a lot of people care about, then you are disrespecting all their ingame efforts, histories, and reputations. Even if you reversed the name change, you've dealt damage. What is more likely to happen a few months down the line: - New player reading these boards recognizes 4S and SAS as top pvp corporations with over two years of history or - New player reading these boards remembers them as the corps who violated the EULA because they were emulating something bad in real life? I read the EULA regarding namechange and it says nothing about national symbols, or nationality, save for the exerpt which says you can't offend others. Why can somebody ask for 4S to be changed, but when you get a massive flood of petitions about "French Force Alliance", "G Alliance", and "People's Front of Judea" its called griefing? Erm, its not "making a point" or griefing, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would like something called fairness, and equality.
Seleene	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:04:00 - [97] Edited by: Seleene on 07/11/2005 19:04:40 Originally by: kieron Originally by: Seleene kieron, here is a question: was there ANY attempt made on CCP's part to contact the corp(s) in question and ask them what THEY thought thier 'offensive' name meant? I'm not sure if an attempt to contact was made. I'm still finding out the events that transpired myself. Yeah, I can just imagine what your inbox looks like right now, man. Good luck and thank you for talking to us. Quote: Common sense usually wins the day. When it has lost and that loss pointed out, resolution is quickly made. I think this is what people really want to hear. Primarily, if a corp name is an issue, there should be some sort of process to adjucate it fairly. Quote: I think BDCI is safe enough. I'm glad you think so, but you never know about people... Thanks again. EDIT - DC's post sums up my feelings perfectly. - 'You have foolishly engaged the MC in Empire space. Prepare to suffer the consequences!'
Blacklight	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:06:00 - [98] Originally by: kieron Originally by: dealsrus this is all well and good but it doesnt explain why it has taken 2 years or more to decide that a corps name is offensive does it? The GMs and CCP staff deal with issues like this when a petition is submitted, an e-mail sent to the Devs, or they notice it in-game. We're not omnipotent and cannot catch everything immediately. I'm sorry but in this case you are omnipotent because all that data is processed by your code and held on your servers, you must have a database file(s) with every corp, player and alliance name in it, you are all seeing, all knowing and capable of influencing all. So it's not that you didn't have an overview of the total picture it's that until now you haven't chosen to do something about it and now what's being done about it is both inconsistent and non-sensical. What's most irritating about the situation is that we have a knee jerk reaction, instead of leaving those corporation names alone until you could discuss the issue internally and come up with a clear policy change (and clearly communicate it to us) you've gone and changed the names, been instrumental in causing all this ruckus and are now in damage control mode. You cannot then have a go at the player base about our reaction to it when the mistake was made and the precedent set by your own people. What if I hadn't read these forum posts and just happened to petition another corp or player name tomorrow, would I then be accused of griefing them because of current circumstances of your staff's creation? This is not a player issue and reacting badly to your customer bases reaction to your mistakes is not going to help you at all, in fact wielding threats in the forum just makes you look like you have even less grip on the situation to be honest. You need to get a decision made and communicated within the next 24 hours at the most or I forsee the fallout from this is going to get even worst. Eve Blacklight Style
Top Hat	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:20:00 - [99] Edited by: Top Hat on 07/11/2005 19:28:09 Originally by: Top Hat Moderated. As I stated before, the GMs do a thankless task with the direction they have been given. GM bashing will not be tolerated. -kieron GM Basing? When they make ridiculous actions like this, whoever is incharge/made this decision deserves it, its called a customer making their opinions known about the service that they are paying for, many people are sick at what has happened. If this situation isnt resolved, fast, expect those petitions to pour in, and if you begin to warn/ban people for doing something someone has done already and where you have set precedent and decide to stick by it, you can expect to start losing customers thick and fast. I can understand mass silly petitions that may be abusing the system to make a point, but if you look through your eve database records, theres a ton of names where it violates some copyright, or your EULA name policies, and those are what people can now legally petition according to your GMs.. Have fun. Edit - threating forum bans doesnt scare me whatsoever, throw some more in my face if it makes you happy. I work for a company where I have to listen to customers moan to myself (Being the supervisor of that particular team) I dont threaten to stop their product because they said I was doing a bad job or a co-worker was, learn some customer care.
Mornee	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:34:00 - [100] Edited by: Mornee on 07/11/2005 19:36:35 Originally by: kieron Originally by: Seleene kieron, here is a question: was there ANY attempt made on CCP's part to contact the corp(s) in question and ask them what THEY thought thier 'offensive' name meant? I'm not sure if an attempt to contact was made. I'm still finding out the events that transpired myself. In order to make things little easier for you, we can assure you that there was no contact whatsoever from GM/CCP side except of the initial notification mail that our name has been changed, with no explanation or reasons given. ù 4S Forums \| 4S KillList \| 4S IRC
algorythm	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:46:00 - [101] This is just ridiculous. Leave things as were before, and keep an eye for new corps/aliances coming with potential offencive names. __________________________ Man usually avoids attributing cleverness to somebody else -- unless it is an enemy. -- Albert Einstein
Skidd Chung	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:47:00 - [102] Originally by: Blacklight Edited by: Blacklight on 07/11/2005 19:10:12 What if I hadn't read these forum posts and just happened to petition another corp or player name tomorrow, would I then be accused of griefing them because of current circumstances of your staff's creation? Scary thought indeed, players petitioning get warning bans for griefing just for using the petitioning system put in the first place to report a 'grief'. --------------------------------------------- War does not determine who is right, only who is left. - Russell Bertrand - http://foto.mail.ru/mail/rchik/14/i-15.jpg
aeti	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:48:00 - [103] is there anybody here that actually had a problem with either name?
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:51:00 - [104] Oh Kieron, ouch. I fully understand your wish to protect the GM team. They do great work most of the time, and they are entitled to mistakes like any one of us. Wether or not the mistake was one of the guidelines or the GM that interpreted them is utterly irrelevant. The gm's represent you, hence they are your responsibility, as much as the guidelines you give them are. When we say gm's, we mean CCP just as much. Now, I hope you're not going to take this the wrong way, but your posts in this thread lack ANY resemblence to decent customer service. You actually have the gut to lay the blame for this at the players' feet, then proceed to threaten them when they decide to use your oversight against you in lieu of receiving the answer they are damn well entitled to. You know just as well what happened here. There was a petition, it was made to grief. Exactly the same happened with 4S, and either you or your gm's failed to recognise it for what it was. Now you've got a mess to clear up, and you botch it by acting like the playerbase is whining at you without having any right of complaint... Now, I wish you luck explaining to the corps in question and any cases past and future why you do what you do and why you do it so long after the information in question was made available to you.
Aelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 19:53:00 - [105] Originally by: Mornee Edited by: Mornee on 07/11/2005 19:36:35 Originally by: kieron Originally by: Seleene kieron, here is a question: was there ANY attempt made on CCP's part to contact the corp(s) in question and ask them what THEY thought thier 'offensive' name meant? I'm not sure if an attempt to contact was made. I'm still finding out the events that transpired myself. In order to make things little easier for you, we can assure you that there was no contact whatsoever from GM/CCP side except of the initial notification mail that our name has been changed, with no explanation or reasons given. I feel your pain, and trust me when i say the large majority of EVE community is along side with you. Even if you ever podded me, killing me ingame, or for any reason our corps were at war i would still be with you on this matter. Principles 4TW
Babs Johnson	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:01:00 - [106] My congratulations to the EVE community as a whole. CCP your customers are speaking with one voice. Whatever our differences may be in space, we have pulled together nearly unanimously to condemn what has transpired regarding these corp names. I find the circumstances to be remarkable. And thanks to Kieron for letting us know that CCP is listening.
Frankinator	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:01:00 - [107] Edited by: Frankinator on 07/11/2005 20:01:17 Originally by: kieron The GMs and CCP staff deal with issues like this when a petition is submitted, an e-mail sent to the Devs, or they notice it in-game. We're not omnipotent and cannot catch everything immediately. So you're saying you had two and a half years, in which no Dev, GM or anyone else has noticed this, ever?
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:10:00 - [108] Why do people not understand how complaints work? Its all about majority, if you have enough of the playerbase complain about a CCP idea, CCP would have to stupid not to change it or atleast consider a change. They are not out to ruin the game for EVERYONE, such is business suicide, what they are trying to do is balance new flashy content to suck in new players, and keep the MAJORITY of the old ones happy.
Wanoah	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:12:00 - [109] As a British citizen, I am offended that a regiment of the British Army is apparently regarded in the same light as WW2 war criminals and terrorist organisations. That it is deemed so offensive that a corp with the same name has to have it changed after being prominent in the game for two years. I'm not some blind, jingoist patriot, but I'm pretty proud of the things that the SAS have achieved since their formation, and this is just...wrong. I suppose Jenny Spitfire will have her name changed next. Yes, I know it's CCP's game and it's entirely up to them how they manage things. But, things like this and the mixed messages about out-of-game efforts for in-game rewards are important. They provoke strong reactions. They are much, much more important than missile changes, ships mk 2, or drone changes. This sort of thing affects the nature of the game and how it develops. This sort of thing shapes the world more than any changes to a few numbers. This sort of thing determines whether Eve is still a place where we want to spend our free time. TCSP Teaser 1
dealsrus	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:16:00 - [110] Originally by: Wanoah As a British citizen, I am offended that a regiment of the British Army is apparently regarded in the same light as WW2 war criminals and terrorist organisations. That it is deemed so offensive that a corp with the same name has to have it changed after being prominent in the game for two years. I'm not some blind, jingoist patriot, but I'm pretty proud of the things that the SAS have achieved since their formation, and this is just...wrong. I suppose Jenny Spitfire will have her name changed next. Yes, I know it's CCP's game and it's entirely up to them how they manage things. But, things like this and the mixed messages about out-of-game efforts for in-game rewards are important. They provoke strong reactions. They are much, much more important than missile changes, ships mk 2, or drone changes. This sort of thing affects the nature of the game and how it develops. This sort of thing shapes the world more than any changes to a few numbers. This sort of thing determines whether Eve is still a place where we want to spend our free time. i have to agree the SAS are one of the most respected regiments that any country has
Trader Klyde	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:18:00 - [111] Ok, this whole thing really chaps my arse. I can't tell you how many char names and corp names I've seen since I started playing this game that could be taken as offensive. The list is simply endless. So where do you start and end CCP? This seems to me to become a major debacle. You guys need to sort this ASAP. Either you are uniform and eradicate all possibly offensive names, or you step back, apollogize for the mistake and this gets forgotten. In fact quite possibly issue a warning to those who filed the petitions to start with. This affair will get out of hand if this isn't dealt with quickly and properly. And, just so you know... I have no dealings with any of the affected players, so I have no bias here other than what I see wrong with this situation. ________________________________________________ From deep in space where nobody hears my screams... Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style.
Takitoo	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:20:00 - [112] Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 07/11/2005 10:16:12Please look up the char named "Himmler" in the gm petition database. It's been petitioned yet has been allowed to stay. "Himmler" is a german family name. Would you want "Clinton" outlawed as well ?
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:26:00 - [113] Originally by: Wanoah As a British citizen, I am offended that a regiment of the British Army is apparently regarded in the same light as WW2 war criminals and terrorist organisations. That it is deemed so offensive that a corp with the same name has to have it changed after being prominent in the game for two years. I'm not some blind, jingoist patriot, but I'm pretty proud of the things that the SAS have achieved since their formation, and this is just...wrong. I suppose Jenny Spitfire will have her name changed next. Yes, I know it's CCP's game and it's entirely up to them how they manage things. But, things like this and the mixed messages about out-of-game efforts for in-game rewards are important. They provoke strong reactions. They are much, much more important than missile changes, ships mk 2, or drone changes. This sort of thing affects the nature of the game and how it develops. This sort of thing shapes the world more than any changes to a few numbers. This sort of thing determines whether Eve is still a place where we want to spend our free time. I'm of British decent, and I have no problem with them changing the SAS corp's name in game. This is sci-fi fantasy, not a WW2 simulator, and having them ask/tell you to change the name is not insulting the SAS, its insulting you. Admit it. Its not different than taking a toy away from a child, they will cry bloody murder, but the toy is fine. Also, SAS is not the same as SS, or anything like that, and I severely doubt that CCP is using any sort of relation to that effect as a basis for their naming policy. They are ATTEMPTING to enforce the roleplaying environment for those that wish to persue it (not I, ty). They will rename corps with SS in it because its a racist monocure. They will rename corps with SAS, or Delta Force, or MI-6 because they do NOT FIT with the environment. If you saw a corporation named the "Happy Teletubbies of Doom" would you not want it changed? Same thing with SAS.
fairimear	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:27:00 - [114] i urge every 1 who has suffered at this to petiton every single NPC and CCP name item u can find with even the most remote link to something that could offend some 1 somewhere. if only to get the point across. Please resize your signature image, the filesize limit is 24,000 bytes - Imaran Awww look the mod's made me a personalised sig,they must like me more than all of u.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:31:00 - [115] Originally by: fairimear i urge every 1 who has suffered at this to petiton every single NPC and CCP name item u can find with even the most remote link to something that could offend some 1 somewhere. if only to get the point across. Thats the quickest way to a ban right there. In the end, CCP will lose relatively little by just deleting the offending character or corp, atleast they were nice enough to give you a heads up before hitting the big red button.

kieron	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:49:00 - [116] Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 07/11/2005 20:08:31 Oh Kieron, ouch. I fully understand your wish to protect the GM team. They do great work most of the time, and they are entitled to mistakes like any one of us. Wether or not the mistake was one of the guidelines or the GM that interpreted them is utterly irrelevant. The gm's represent you, hence they are your responsibility, as much as the guidelines you give them are. When we say gm's, we mean CCP just as much. Now, I hope you're not going to take this the wrong way, but your posts in this thread so far were a bit off the mark. You actually lay the blame for this at the players' feet, then proceed to threaten them, creating less clarity where more is needed. You know just as well what happened here. There was a petition, it was made to grief. Exactly the same happened with 4S, and either you or your gm's failed to recognise it for what it was. Now you've got a mess to clear up, and you botch it by acting like the playerbase is whining at you without having any right of complaint... Now, I wish you luck explaining to the corps in question and any cases past and future why you do what you do and why you do it so long after the information in question was made available to you. Were mistakes made along the way? Sure, I am not attempting to hide that, sugar coat it or disavow responsibility. I am fully cognizant of CCP establishing the policy for the GMs to follow and the GMs acting under that poicy in this incident. Have some corporations abused the petition system with spurious complaints? Have some corporations been subject to an amount of griefing by other corporations in an attempt to make a point? Yes to both questions. My intention was to have that stopped, as it creates more hard feelings than good will on the part of both players and staff. Is there any point in continuing to slag the GMs or CCP staff at this point? Again, no, it is only going to generate more ill feelings and push the arguements further when we are working on a solution. All I am asking for is a chance for CCP and the GMs to discuss the issue, make a decision and act upon it. Spamming the support queue with retributive name change petitions and bashing the GMs and/or CCP for past actions, policies and a lack of omnipotence does nothing to resolve the situation. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Metternich Stele	Posted - 2005.11.07 20:53:00 - [117] Posted about one month ago Originally by: zincol As From today S.A.S will no longer be accepting contracts,starting wars or fighting under the S.A.S name. S.A.S will be closing down in the next few days due to inactive members. Members that are active will be looking for a new PVP corp if you have a home for us please evemail me details. (Mainly Euro Players) Maybe one day S.A.S will rise from the ashes as it did before,Till then its Closed/Inactive. To those involved G/L and have fun. Yes it's official the world really did end the day SAS got a name change. The masses of inactive players must be going crazy over their precious corp name. OMG there are some drama queens in this game. CIHYS for the ones who are leaving or get banned for petition exploiting?
Count TaSessine	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:01:00 - [118] Originally by: s4mp3r0r Edited by: s4mp3r0r on 07/11/2005 11:51:33 Originally by: Count TaSessine Originally by: Avon ISS was a political group spreading socialism throughout educational establisments throughout the early 1900's. lol - where did you dig that up? How about 'Interstellar Starbase Syndicate'? I dare you to find a realworld look-a-like to that International Space Station Cleaning ISS So i guess your name will be changed as well.. GG CCP or was it CCP or CCP or CCP PS : You loose. Hehe, but I said 'Interstellar Starbase Syndicate', not 'ISS'. I was aware of both your references with regards to the ticker Chairman, ISS Now open:
MuthaTrucka	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:06:00 - [119] Originally by: kieron Were mistakes made along the way? Sure, I am not attempting to hide that, sugar coat it or disavow responsibility. I am fully cognizant of CCP establishing the policy for the GMs to follow and the GMs acting under that poicy in this incident. Have some corporations abused the petition system with spurious complaints? Have some corporations been subject to an amount of griefing by other corporations in an attempt to make a point? Yes to both questions. My intention was to have that stopped, as it creates more hard feelings than good will on the part of both players and staff. Is there any point in continuing to slag the GMs or CCP staff at this point? Again, no, it is only going to generate more ill feelings and push the arguements further when we are working on a solution. All I am asking for is a chance for CCP and the GMs to discuss the issue, make a decision and act upon it.Spamming the support queue with retributive name change petitions and bashing the GMs and/or CCP for past actions, policies and a lack of omnipotence does nothing to resolve the situation. The situation should have been resolved before it came to this. Past actions and inactions Directly contribute to the fever that has taken over this discussion. name change petitions regardless if they are retributive or not need to be looked at since the only time your GM teams decides to look at that paticular EULA clause is when they are petitioned. Your very inaction at this point as caused a cascade of EULA petitions on Names. Your own stated non omnipotence and lack of enforcing the EULA clause when it was encountered, Your policy of waiting until a petition was filed has caused this spamming of the system with so called retributive petitions. Any unenforced policy will cause this sort of backlash in the event of actually enforcing it at a later date while before you turned a blind eye to it. This is only the beginning of a cavalcade of various EULA petitions. Now that it is Out that You only Enforce policies when brought to your attention. So time to Research the Eula to see exactly what the Next policy to start being enforced is. Oh and Kieron while you are at it maybe you ned to put down in writing the Policies that are Enferced as opposed to the ones that are not. make it easy for the community to actualy pick one to use. --------------- Don't Call me a Carebear, I don't really care about much at all. [SeXin Up Foyle]
Summersnow	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:06:00 - [120] Originally by: kieron In the interim, there are some corporations petitioning other corporations with names that have real life counterparts or connotations. It could be said that these corporations are griefing other corporations in an attempt to make their point. This MUST cease. Yes, I use griefing purposefully. Abusing the support system to make a point and cause hardship for other players is griefing and another violation of the EULA. As far as players using the petition system to make a point, well, isn't that kind of ccp's fault for starting this whole mess? You guys should pay a little attention to WoW's message boards once in a while and you would have realized from there issues with name-griefing what a sensitive issue this was and gone to greater lengths to resolve this diplomatically, i.e. give the corp x days to choose a replacement name, instead of randomly changing it. On a side note, I find your comments on griefing to be particularly amusing because griefing is by design what eve is all about because there is almost nothing you can do to interact that does not grief someone else.
Drakxter	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:17:00 - [121] Originally by: kieron Three, leave your comments about the GM team off of the forums. Thank you very much. They do a very thankless job and should not have to put up with uninformed opinions. Kieron.. They might do a thankless job, but that does not mean we have to put up with everything they do, because even the GMs might be wrong, why.. Because they are human. Based on what I just have read today, reguarding the naming, that silly raffel idea, and oveurs more and more troll like replies, I gotta say, CCP went down a few steps on my "I like you'o'meter" Now.. I hope you dont ban people for letting you know how they feel (aka telling the truth). -------------
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:18:00 - [122] Originally by: Summersnow You guys should pay a little attention to WoW's message boards This is an eve forum so the mods/GMs read only this forum. We all hate WoW. Originally by: MuthaTrucka The situation should have been resolved before it came to this. Past actions and inactions Directly contribute to the fever that has taken over this discussion. name change petitions regardless if they are retributive or not need to be looked at since the only time your GM teams decides to look at that paticular EULA clause is when they are petitioned. Your very inaction at this point as caused a cascade of EULA petitions on Names. Your own stated non omnipotence and lack of enforcing the EULA clause when it was encountered, Your policy of waiting until a petition was filed has caused this spamming of the system with so called retributive petitions. Any unenforced policy will cause this sort of backlash in the event of actually enforcing it at a later date while before you turned a blind eye to it. This is only the beginning of a cavalcade of various EULA petitions. Now that it is Out that You only Enforce policies when brought to your attention. So time to Research the Eula to see exactly what the Next policy to start being enforced is. Oh and Kieron while you are at it maybe you ned to put down in writing the Policies that are Enferced as opposed to the ones that are not. make it easy for the community to actualy pick one to use. I think this answers it: Originally by: kieron All I am asking for is a chance for CCP and the GMs to discuss the issue, make a decision and act upon it. Spamming the support queue with retributive name change petitions and bashing the GMs and/or CCP for past actions, policies and a lack of omnipotence does nothing to resolve the situation. BlogÖ
Fellhand	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:24:00 - [123] First time I saw the Band Of Brothers corp name, I presumed it was a reference to the St. Crispin's Day speech ("we few, we happy few, we band of brothers") and I had no idea what 4S meant, I thought it was just a random corp name. This does raise the question: I'm partly Roma and partly English. Would my corp name be summarily changed if I referenced Her Majesty or the Opre Roma in the name? _______________________________________________ There is no such thing as too much cynicism Flame me if you wish, I laugh with scorn at threats... Beware of geeks bearing gifs
s4mp3r0r	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:24:00 - [124] Originally by: Top Hat I work for a company where I have to listen to customers moan to myself I dont threaten to stop their product because they said I was doing a bad job or a co-worker was, learn some customer care. Quoted for truth, i too work in technical customer support and omg, if i was to pull this **** off at ANY of the companies I worked for (HP, ING Bank, Baker & McKenzie lawfirm) they would have fired the whole support group and outsourced. Check all the links i posted, all i still can say after all your "explanations" = owned. Proud CEO of the I have a mirel yirrin corpse and do freaky things to it club. Convo me ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ mirel yirrin Ö" Bumpersticker!!
Metternich Stele	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:25:00 - [125] Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 07/11/2005 20:59:13 Originally by: Metternich Stele Posted about one month ago Originally by: zincol As From today S.A.S will no longer be accepting contracts,starting wars or fighting under the S.A.S name. S.A.S will be closing down in the next few days due to inactive members. Members that are active will be looking for a new PVP corp if you have a home for us please evemail me details. (Mainly Euro Players) Maybe one day S.A.S will rise from the ashes as it did before,Till then its Closed/Inactive. To those involved G/L and have fun. Yes it's official the world really did end the day SAS got a name change. The masses of inactive players must be going crazy over their precious corp name. OMG there are some drama queens in this game. CIHYS for the ones who are leaving or get banned for petition exploiting? SAS reformed mroe recently FYI Originally by: Marcus Aurelius SAS reformed mroe recently FYI Things change fast in the world of eve but tantrums tend be short lived. You'll get over this with a bit councelling, the tears will dry up and there will be a whole new set of quit worthy, world ending CCP atrocities for the forum whingers to get into hissing fit about.
s4mp3r0r	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:40:00 - [126] PS : Aren't there tons of backlogged petitions that DO require attention ? Proud CEO of the I have a mirel yirrin corpse and do freaky things to it club. Convo me ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ mirel yirrin Ö" Bumpersticker!!
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:44:00 - [127] You lot are aware CCP have to choose between two evils here right? One option is to change SASs name back, make a public apology and potentially ban the guys who obviously petitioned SAS just because they're ingame enemies. Other option is they won't change the name back, and CCP are going to get flooded with complaints about every single NPC corp name they came up with - and with good reason. Neither is something they want, obviously. Although the choice is simple from a customer POV. Better make that a good apology.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:45:00 - [128] Originally by: Metternich Stele Originally by: Marcus Aurelius SAS reformed mroe recently FYI Things change fast in the world of eve but tantrums tend be short lived. You'll get over this with a bit councelling, the tears will dry up and there will be a whole new set of quit worthy, world ending CCP atrocities for the forum whingers to get into hissing fit about. I'm not in SAS, nor have I ever been. I dont care about their name. I care about how the petition system is being abused to grief others. That's the only issue here.
JForce	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:46:00 - [129] JForce CEO and Founder of NWA NWA now recruiting
Muthsera	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:55:00 - [130] Ok. From a SAS member to the dev team. I do understand the need to keep sertain political ties off the game. And it should after all be some form of rule to follow conserning staying in good taste. Now. If you really think S.A.S is an bannable name. You really have to do it across the line and not just us. You need to change a LOT of names to stick in line whit this rule. And lets be honnest. That is not practical. I can agree you banning the name if it was outright offencive. But I cannot agree whit it being offencive or out of taste. So I feel there have to be some common sence guiding the banning of corp names, etc. And it shouldn't be banned whitout atleast talking to us or informing us of the action well before you actually did it. How it was done was nothing less than bad form. There was no other justification giving for banning the name other than that is was in breach whit the eula. So either you have to continue following the rule and do it across the board. Or you change the rule and let us keep the name. SoonÖ
Astar Null	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:58:00 - [131] I petition the Khanid empire. It was the name of a Mesopotamium empire. I think Amarr empire 002 is a better name. Where do I send the petition?
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:58:00 - [132] Edited by: Hellspawn01 on 07/11/2005 22:00:03 Originally by: Elve Sorrow You lot are aware CCP have to choose between two evils here right? One option is to change SASs name back, make a public apology and potentially ban the guys who obviously petitioned SAS just because they're ingame enemies. Other option is they won't change the name back, and CCP are going to get flooded with complaints about every single NPC corp name they came up with - and with good reason. Neither is something they want, obviously. Although the choice is simple from a customer POV. Better make that a good apology. I vote for the first option. Btw, my ingame name is connected to a very famous comic book and movie. I wonder what Amarr Citizen I will be BlogÖ
Rekh Wuthrich	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:11:00 - [133] I think all of the points have been made, all of which are valid. However, we need to just take a breath, relax, and see what CCP decide on the issue. Let's at least give them a bit of time to work out the what happened internally and render a decision. Then if you don't like it, flame on.
Astar Null	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:13:00 - [134] I petition the following firms, alliances: Shinra, its a real world organization: http://www.square-enix.co.jp/dvd/ff7ac/shinra/ Oh yeah. NORAD, American / Canadian defense organization xelas, real firm http://www.xelas.com/ force of evil -- its a real band and thats a copywright infringement: http://www.forceofevil.net/ razor -- real firm http://www.razor.com/ r.i.s.k -- its an american board game huzzah federation has a pot leaf as a logo. Is CCP condoning illegal activities now?
Finix Jaeger	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:28:00 - [135] Quote: huzzah federation has a pot leaf as a logo. Is CCP condoning illegal activities now? noo, dont kill the space hippies!! -------------------------
Nim Nom	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:33:00 - [136] Tolerance (sp), is prob the whole reason that we as a race of humans have never got on in a grand scale, and imho RL politic should be kept out of GAME! As someone previously stated, if both 4S and SAS corp names are made permenent the following needs to happen; 1) All playernames / Corp names and tickers/ Alliances must be changed so that they dont break the EULA 2) Clearer guidelines on what is and what is not accptable.
Muthsera	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:37:00 - [137] Oh. Btw. We where never warned that the corp name whould change. At all. Not before it changed and not after. We had to find out ourself from the forum. Again very bad form. SoonÖ
Baun	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:38:00 - [138] Originally by: kieron Originally by: dealsrus this is all well and good but it doesnt explain why it has taken 2 years or more to decide that a corps name is offensive does it? The GMs and CCP staff deal with issues like this when a petition is submitted, an e-mail sent to the Devs, or they notice it in-game. We're not omnipotent and cannot catch everything immediately. Correct. Instead of being omnipotent CCP is slow, unprofessional and act in a completely capricious manner. If this were actually such a big problem then the entire corp creaction process would be different. Every corp name would have to have been checked by GMs and support staff before the corporation could even be created. You cannot appeal to "rules so important that they were created before the game" to justify acting with an almost 3 year lag time. Either the rule was never very important, which explains why the corporations whose names are currently being changed have been around for so long without CCP taking any action, or you guys have just been ignoring perhaps your most importantly liability protecting rule for the entire time EVE has been active. The real truth is that you guys are far more interested in getting people to send in their monthly subscriptions than you are in treating them with proper respect and professionalism. If someone threatens you in a manner in which you are liable (i.e allowing registered trademarks or national symbols to be used in your game), you are far happier to stomp on any number of paying customers than to actually do the due diligence that is demanded of you. After all, its cheaper to treat a few hundred customers like garbage, most of whom won't even stop paying, than it is to hire a number of new full time employees. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Kyguard	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:39:00 - [139] Edited by: Kyguard on 07/11/2005 22:40:12 You deleted one of my posts, which compared to some of the other people here is nothing offensive, yet the "major" groups of Eve get to post whatever the hell they want with a minor editing in theirs. Afraid of retribution or just because they post more often than me? Oh, lets not forget. The "Caldari" name needs to be changed because it is a famous wine producing town in Italy, which can also be found on wine bottles. CCP is slowly getting its letters replaced by "W", "o", and "W". -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Grimster	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:45:00 - [140] I guess were it a clear cut EULA breach and all was well with the petition system, there'd be no question of things even being thought about internally by CCP, it'd just happen. Have the GM's gone about this the wrong way? Yes, of course. People shouldn't threaten to spam the petition system tbh, that really won't fix anything and the dissent in the playerbase over this is immediately obvious to anyone looking at the forums, from the playerbase view it sucks, and I suspect policing whether a name is offensive or not is prolly not the way to do things after 2.5 years. I mean, hell, there's even a corp called Adolphs Angels ffs!!1 Either filter this stuff on creation or leave be, in the meantime, it's prolly good to reverse the decision made on the very long standing corp names already in use. All my personal opinion blah blah..
Camel S	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:47:00 - [141] Originally by: kieron All I am asking for is a chance for CCP and the GMs to discuss the issue, make a decision and act upon it. Spamming the support queue with retributive name change petitions and bashing the GMs and/or CCP for past actions, policies and a lack of omnipotence does nothing to resolve the situation. This is a good idea, taking 5 minutes to think and discuss an issue before insulting your entire customer base. Another good idea is to not threaten your customers with repercussion where a simple notification would suffice.
Dezzyb0y	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:47:00 - [142] I'm not gonna be serious because quite frankly this whole situation is a ** take. Your running your buisiness alot like one of my old bosses did before he started cutting my pay cheque and eventually leading to me quitting. For you this whole game seems like its all about money. One person (lets not name names, but he's been a big forum * and involved in alot of conflict with both corps), Has pettitioned their names. Based on the fact its linked to real life? Well ** me, does that mean i can petition blacklight tomorrow because when i was a child a lightbulb fell on my head and i now cant see through one eye? (obviously its fake but sounds as justifiable as these corp petitions). Kieron from your posts you made it sound like a decsision hadnt been reached, if this is the case then why have they had their name changed? Surley it would be easier to do your "research" before changing the name. "Comman sence!?" K nough of a rant me thinks... (awaits warning emails) ----------------------- Join the oveur fan club today and recive an e-flower!
DevBlogHaxor	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:49:00 - [143] Edited by: DevBlogHaxor on 07/11/2005 22:50:33 Originally by: kieron All I am asking for is a chance for CCP and the GMs to discuss the issue, make a decision and act upon it. Spamming the support queue with retributive name change petitions and bashing the GMs and/or CCP for past actions, policies and a lack of omnipotence does nothing to resolve the situation. Wouldn't it make sense to do this before changing the corps name?
Grimster	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:49:00 - [144] BTW Dezzy, your sig scares me and brings back frightening memories of earlier abuse.. Clicking petition now..
Kyguard	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:56:00 - [145] Originally by: Grimster BTW Dezzy, your sig scares me and brings back frightening memories of earlier abuse.. Clicking petition now.. Oh btw, Kieron your avatar reminds me of a man who once gave me an evil stare, do I petition in-game or to you? -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Metternich Stele	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:57:00 - [146] Take a look at the strictly enforced character naming policies of Blizzard, Verant or others if you want a preview of what you'll be getting as a result of this little drama. There will be an awful lot of you running around as eveplayerxxxxx pretty soon I think
Crystal Starbreeze	Posted - 2005.11.07 23:01:00 - [147] Keiron makes a good point. Allow them to discuss it. Give it a couple days. Keep posting your opinions here as I am sure they read them and they WILL influence the decision that is made. But seriously lets stop the GM flames and the griefing with petitioning everybody corp name. It wont get you anywhere but **** the GMS off and make them feel unwilling to resolve the situation amicably. OH for the record......I am 100% against the name changes and think that both corps should get the corp names back. I dont see anyway in which those names are offensive. Also the community does make a good point...if you are going to enforce policy on one you have to do it on all, alienating a very large proportion of the gaming communtity.
Cookie	Posted - 2005.11.07 23:07:00 - [148] Originally by: Metternich Stele [...] There will be an awful lot of you running around as eveplayerxxxxx pretty soon I think maybe, just maybe it's some sort of masterplan from CCP. They just created eMail-pvp to reduce lag in-game. Then .. when all names were replaced by numbers we'll all meet up in Oursarelag and fight the final battle, even vs odd numbers.
Remedial	Posted - 2005.11.07 23:11:00 - [149] The use of trademarked names in a non-educational manner for an organizational is generally prohibited by international and national law, and I believe Iceland is a signor to the TRIPS intellectual property agreement. Instead of opening the doors to potential litigation and cease-and-desist orders from big corporations with very expensive lawyers like Microsoft, IBM, etc. it only makes sense for CCP to just make the "OMG HILARIOUS" corps that are so unoriginal that they can't come up with a non-trademarked name to change theirs.
Obidios	Posted - 2005.11.07 23:42:00 - [150] Originally by: Top Hat Moderated. As I stated before, the GMs do a thankless task with the direction they have been given. GM bashing will not be tolerated. -kieron Why should th GM's be thanked? It's their job and they are getting paid, volenteers would be different. -----------------
Kyguard	Posted - 2005.11.08 00:06:00 - [151] Originally by: Obidios Originally by: Top Hat Moderated. As I stated before, the GMs do a thankless task with the direction they have been given. GM bashing will not be tolerated. -kieron Why should th GM's be thanked? It's their job and they are getting paid, volenteers would be different. Definitely. They have a job and if they screw up, it's their fault, not ours for complaining and pointing out their mistakes. Here's a life lesson, you can only poke the bear so much before it starts running after you. -- God is on the side with the best artillery
Da Ram	Posted - 2005.11.08 00:15:00 - [152] Isnt there a corp or alliance called THE BIG BLUE -- somehow reminds me of a corp in RL . CCP - stop that (name)despotism now, even if you re technically entitled to it it does not become you ! Thanks, Ram
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.11.08 00:19:00 - [153] Originally by: Obidios Originally by: Top Hat Moderated. As I stated before, the GMs do a thankless task with the direction they have been given. GM bashing will not be tolerated. -kieron Why should th GM's be thanked? It's their job and they are getting paid, volenteers would be different. Most GMs *are* volunteers.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.11.08 00:20:00 - [154] Originally by: Da Ram Isnt there a corp or alliance called THE BIG BLUE -- somehow reminds me of a corp in RL . CCP - stop that (name)despotism now, even if you re technically entitled to it it does not become you ! Thanks, Ram Funny, I thought it had something to do with Kentucky basketball...
Bozl1n	Posted - 2005.11.08 00:30:00 - [155] Originally by: dimensionZ Originally by: Admiral IceBlock SS stands for Schutzstaffel (SS). The SS was ****s personal bodyguards. Like all other **-organisations at that time they comitted war crimes around europe. Im sure most things are a synonym for something really. But now ill write a petition for the name "Band of Brothers (BoB". You are really really really really pathetic. You see a bad call from the GMs, so you decide to "exploit" the situation in order to annoy us. Pfff. I think hes taking the pish actully..... BUT whats good for the goose is good for the gander, regardless of if the whole thing is retarded in the first place. In the words of an old faverorite of mine, "political correctness gone mad, GONE MAD" 2 good connections made are zeolot and concorde tho, 1 clearly has religious origins, the other a blatant trademar, both of which are fine
Da Ram	Posted - 2005.11.08 00:35:00 - [156] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Obidios Originally by: Top Hat Moderated. As I stated before, the GMs do a thankless task with the direction they have been given. GM bashing will not be tolerated. -kieron Why should th GM's be thanked? It's their job and they are getting paid, volenteers would be different. Most GMs *are* volunteers. You couldnt be more wrong The GM Staff is all hired from a "third" party. Volunteers go into the ISD team. GMs are professionals - as in paid for their profession. thanks - ah and my point remains--Introducing The BIG BLUE as well as having "ISS" is as well against the EULA. Ram
Baun	Posted - 2005.11.08 00:36:00 - [157] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Obidios Originally by: Top Hat Moderated. As I stated before, the GMs do a thankless task with the direction they have been given. GM bashing will not be tolerated. -kieron Why should th GM's be thanked? It's their job and they are getting paid, volenteers would be different. Most GMs *are* volunteers. Hill, what are you smoking? ISD, Aurora event staff and forum mods are all community volunteers (who get free game accounts). GMs are people in Iceland who are paid to be CCP's customer service representatives in game and out. None of them are volunteers, their jobs are to be GMs. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.11.08 00:42:00 - [158] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 08/11/2005 00:45:07 Originally by: Baun Edited by: Baun on 08/11/2005 00:36:35 Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Obidios Originally by: Top Hat Moderated. As I stated before, the GMs do a thankless task with the direction they have been given. GM bashing will not be tolerated. -kieron Why should th GM's be thanked? It's their job and they are getting paid, volenteers would be different. Most GMs *are* volunteers. Hill, what are you smoking? ISD, Aurora event staff and forum mods are all community volunteers (who get free game accounts). GMs are people in Iceland who are paid to be CCP's customer service representatives in game and out. They don't technically work for CCP, but for someone CCP contracts out to. None of them are volunteers, their jobs are to be GMs. I was under the impression that most of the "GM" labeled people we deal with in game (that move stuck people and filter petitions) are in the "support team and resources" (STAR) section of ISD and that the "senior GMs" are all paid. Seems to be kind of mean to group the former with management and the latter.
Baun	Posted - 2005.11.08 00:56:00 - [159] Senior GMs are just GMs that are tasked with more work, harder cases and are paid more. The people who deal with petitions in game are supposed to be all paid professionals (otherwise there would almost certainly be severe liability problems). I think that event staff are only given in game powers in order to run their events or assist GM/Dev run events. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.11.08 01:10:00 - [160] Originally by: Baun Senior GMs are just GMs that are tasked with more work, harder cases and are paid more. The people who deal with petitions in game are supposed to be all paid professionals (otherwise there would almost certainly be severe liability problems). I think that event staff are only given in game powers in order to run their events or assist GM/Dev run events. I was working with the line here out of the FAQ: Though volunteer powers are extremely limited, they can perform simple tasks such as answering some low-level petitions, moving characters that are stuck (under certain circumstances) and providing information about current conditions in the game that may affect mobility or connectivity. This of course explains why stuck petitions are answered VERY quickly and other petitions can take weeks sometimes. When people say "OMG GMs suck!" they mean the higher ups, but it can easily be construed to everyone that answers petitions... Thats where I thought Kieron's post came from.
Baun	Posted - 2005.11.08 01:17:00 - [161] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Baun Senior GMs are just GMs that are tasked with more work, harder cases and are paid more. The people who deal with petitions in game are supposed to be all paid professionals (otherwise there would almost certainly be severe liability problems). I think that event staff are only given in game powers in order to run their events or assist GM/Dev run events. I was working with the line here out of the FAQ: Though volunteer powers are extremely limited, they can perform simple tasks such as answering some low-level petitions, moving characters that are stuck (under certain circumstances) and providing information about current conditions in the game that may affect mobility or connectivity. This of course explains why stuck petitions are answered VERY quickly and other petitions can take weeks sometimes. When people say "OMG GMs suck!" they mean the higher ups, but it can easily be construed to everyone that answers petitions... Thats where I thought Kieron's post came from. That might be true, but I think the reason stuck petitions are answered so quickly is that its a simple issue to resolve, and simple for the GMs to confirm that there is an issue warranting a character move. As far as what Kieron said ... I don't think he was trying to protect ISD volunteers, given that they would have had nothing to do with changing corp names. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.11.08 01:43:00 - [162] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Baun This of course explains why stuck petitions are answered VERY quickly and other petitions can take weeks sometimes. When people say "OMG GMs suck!" they mean the higher ups, but it can easily be construed to everyone that answers petitions... Thats where I thought Kieron's post came from. Stuck petitions etc are answered and fixed quickly because there is (quite correctly) a higher priority attached to them. Anyway - on topic. It's nice to see something like this discussed in the community. Why were so many threads (on the same topic) prior to this particular one locked? I'd hate to discuss moderation but it's a tad inconsistent
slip66	Posted - 2005.11.08 02:49:00 - [163] This is total insanity where one persons personal opinion on a corp or allaince name could effect thousands... Once again the minority rules the majority. Lame.
infused	Posted - 2005.11.08 03:20:00 - [164]
Baun	Posted - 2005.11.08 03:44:00 - [165] Edited by: Baun on 08/11/2005 03:44:21 Edited by: Baun on 08/11/2005 03:43:49 Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Baun This of course explains why stuck petitions are answered VERY quickly and other petitions can take weeks sometimes. When people say "OMG GMs suck!" they mean the higher ups, but it can easily be construed to everyone that answers petitions... Thats where I thought Kieron's post came from. Stuck petitions etc are answered and fixed quickly because there is (quite correctly) a higher priority attached to them. Anyway - on topic. It's nice to see something like this discussed in the community. Why were so many threads (on the same topic) prior to this particular one locked? I'd hate to discuss moderation but it's a tad inconsistent hate to be nit picky but can you fix your quotes so it doenst look like you are quoting something I said ;p The Enemy's Gate is Down
Bosie	Posted - 2005.11.08 03:51:00 - [166] Whoops... Bosie.
BillyBong2	Posted - 2005.11.08 04:07:00 - [167] Originally by: slip66 This is total insanity where one persons personal opinion on a corp or allaince name could effect thousands... Once again the minority rules the majority. Lame. Couldn't have said that better myself.
t3mpus II	Posted - 2005.11.08 08:12:00 - [168] Originally by: slip66 This is total insanity where one persons personal opinion on a corp or allaince name could effect thousands... Once again the minority rules the majority. Lame. Majority can not be excuse to break laws. Some things are not subject to voting. We can't vote to kill someone. But clearly this is not the case, since those names don't break any obvious rule. Those were not small corps that noone has heard of but high profile corps that I am 100% sure most devs and senior gms have heard their name in these 2.5 years. If they didn't think by themselves that there was a problem with these names, a petition should not have changed their opinion.
Hakera	Posted - 2005.11.08 08:14:00 - [169] Originally by: BillyBong2 Originally by: slip66 This is total insanity where one persons personal opinion on a corp or allaince name could effect thousands... Once again the minority rules the majority. Lame. Couldn't have said that better myself. Yeah, doesnt really make sense in a military warfare based game to ban names of military units. Having one person complain and able to change the name of a corp or alliance which has been ingame for 2 1/2 years is a tad silly. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Aquiesse Erus	Posted - 2005.11.08 08:16:00 - [170] Originally by: Hakera Originally by: BillyBong2 Originally by: slip66 This is total insanity where one persons personal opinion on a corp or allaince name could effect thousands... Once again the minority rules the majority. Lame. Couldn't have said that better myself. Yeah, doesnt really make sense in a military warfare based game to ban names of military units. Having one person complain and able to change the name of a corp or alliance which has been ingame for 2 1/2 years is a tad silly. More than just a tad silly. Its unprofesional to say the least and should have been obvious to the GM who was changing the name it would cause HUGE amounts of strife within the community, which it has. This has shocked the communities trust with CCP for the moment, lets hope its restored post-haste.
Aquiesse Erus	Posted - 2005.11.08 08:16:00 - [171] Originally by: Hakera Originally by: BillyBong2 Originally by: slip66 This is total insanity where one persons personal opinion on a corp or allaince name could effect thousands... Once again the minority rules the majority. Lame. Couldn't have said that better myself. Yeah, doesnt really make sense in a military warfare based game to ban names of military units. Having one person complain and able to change the name of a corp or alliance which has been ingame for 2 1/2 years is a tad silly. More than just a tad silly. Its unprofesional to say the least and should have been obvious to the GM who was changing the name it would cause HUGE amounts of strife within the community, which it has. This has shocked the communities trust with CCP for the moment, lets hope its restored post-haste.
Eiger	Posted - 2005.11.08 08:31:00 - [172] If they start killing corp name tickers why not do the same on player names ? Or even to all corp that have a relation (by name only) to military organization of the past. Just do a search for Characters and Corp with: "SS 1" "SS 2" ..... "SS A" "SS B" "SS C" Result will give aprox 20 names or more. Why they are allowed judging on the same principle that made SAS corp ticker removed ? I dont have absolutly nothing with or agains ppl that have "SS" in the fron but if SAS or 4S is removed then SS which is a known **** "organization" should have been banned 1st !
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2005.11.08 09:01:00 - [173] Originally by: Aquiesse Erus Then why werent the names picked up before? How come alliances such as Band Of Brothers which refers to a world war 2 unit has not been changed? First of all, the Band of Brothers was not a military group, it was a name a select unit had during World War Two. Second, there are hundreds, possibly THOUSANDS of such nicknames used by units in the military. Regardless, none of them are military organizations, therefore they are not breaking the EULA. Now you might beable to argue against using a name like Leathernecks, but even then, that's just a nickname for a member of a military unit (USMC). Nothing personal, just wanted to give you a reason why Band of Brothers is a legit name in EVE. Your Civilian Gatling Railgun perfectly strikes Choke Slam [CAIN], wrecking for 6.0 damage.
Mallikanth	Posted - 2005.11.08 09:49:00 - [174] Hmmmmmmm Lots said on both sides of the argument. This thread doesn't appear to be constructive any more IMHO Play the game and stop picking holes. We've had our say and points have been well made on both sides but the botom line lies with CCP. Let wait & see what CCP and the GM's come up with, eh? Uber Mining lvl5 in Training
The Clash	Posted - 2005.11.08 10:32:00 - [175] Originally by: Seleene Edited by: Seleene on 07/11/2005 18:37:29 Originally by: kieron Originally by: dealsrus this is all well and good but it doesnt explain why it has taken 2 years or more to decide that a corps name is offensive does it? The GMs and CCP staff deal with issues like this when a petition is submitted, an e-mail sent to the Devs, or they notice it in-game. We're not omnipotent and cannot catch everything immediately. kieron, here is a question: was there ANY attempt made on CCP's part to contact the corp(s) in question and ask them what THEY thought thier 'offensive' name meant? SAS = Special Attack Services? 4S Corp = We are happy elves who dance under the moonlight? Am I going to wake up one morning and discover that over two years of my own gaming efforts in making BDCI a known commodity is all wasted when my corp is renamed "Minmatar Corp 45921" due to some petion about God only knows what? Will all of my videos featuring the name be banned at that point as well? I'm not trying to be difficult. These are VERY REAL concerns that I'm sure a lot of players share. Hmz i might petition you coz BodyCount is a band wich made a song called Copkillers i believe and i might do that IRL coz i keep gettin reminded about killin a cop by lookin at yer corpname . Devs been to holland lately before they wacked those corpnames ? _________________ You can suck my battleship.

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