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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Doris Dents	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:07:00 - [31] I don’t think you’ve thought this through beyond the visceral “I want” reaction. If HACs and T2 ships in general became cheap, everyday PVP ships then they’d just become a bar to entry before someone could compete. Eve would begin to take on characteristics of a retarded treadmill game where you have to train/grind for a considerable amount of time then go PVP. Also it’d be then end of a much needed isk drain on the economy. That said the BPO lottery is just about the worst way imaginable to distribute this stuff. There should've been initial auctions so those who've truely worked for thier position could enjoy the rewards. But what's done is done.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:11:00 - [32] Doris Dents, fact remains that, for example, the HAC supply remains very low (and the number of accounts has climbed over 50% while the supply has NOT) - if all 20 BPO's of a HAC are constantly in production, you get 4 a week from each - 80 HAC's a week. 80 for 75,000 players (And there WON'T be 80 either - disruptions to production and non-producing BPO's). The cap recharger II situation, well, it sucks but it's not quite the same since production is ample. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Hasham Abbas	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:13:00 - [33] Originally by: Maya Rkell Doris Dents, fact remains that, for example, the HAC supply remains very low (and the number of accounts has climbed over 50% while the supply has NOT) - if all 20 BPO's of a HAC are constantly in production, you get 4 a week from each - 80 HAC's a week. 80 for 75,000 players (And there WON'T be 80 either - disruptions to production and non-producing BPO's). The cap recharger II situation, well, it sucks but it's not quite the same since production is ample. now this i agree with - increasing supply on a proportional basis to players.

Jacques Archambault	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:13:00 - [34] Please keep it civil. Jacques' forum rules \| [email protected]

Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:14:00 - [35] Originally by: Hasham Abbas Originally by: Maya Rkell Doris Dents, fact remains that, for example, the HAC supply remains very low (and the number of accounts has climbed over 50% while the supply has NOT) - if all 20 BPO's of a HAC are constantly in production, you get 4 a week from each - 80 HAC's a week. 80 for 75,000 players (And there WON'T be 80 either - disruptions to production and non-producing BPO's). The cap recharger II situation, well, it sucks but it's not quite the same since production is ample. now this i agree with - increasing supply on a proportional basis to players. I agree with it too. The deal is that HAC BPOs were released when EVE had hardly above half its current subscriberbase. Now, there's not nearly enough. - Proud member of the [23]. Don't get the reference in my sig? Click it.
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:15:00 - [36] To be fair, I think half the problem is that the HAC's are the only T2 combat cruiser released so far. when some more T2 options come out I doubt demand will be quite as high. Also with the upcoming missiles changes I think the Caldari ones will be a more attractive option and so the popular ones (Zealot, Ishtar, Deimos) wont have quite so much demand. If after those 2 things have happened the demand vs supply is still as bad then think about added a few more BPO's.
St Dragon	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:27:00 - [37] Originally by: Maya Rkell Doris Dents, fact remains that, for example, the HAC supply remains very low (and the number of accounts has climbed over 50% while the supply has NOT) - if all 20 BPO's of a HAC are constantly in production, you get 4 a week from each - 80 HAC's a week. 80 for 75,000 players (And there WON'T be 80 either - disruptions to production and non-producing BPO's). The cap recharger II situation, well, it sucks but it's not quite the same since production is ample. Well i must say you have hit the nail right on the head here. one way to fix this is if say cerubuses are low in supply get ccp to drop the occasion bpc 1 run in high end rat loot that way the demand for that ship is lower. And when the supplie reaches a certain level stop droping the bpc's.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:30:00 - [38] For the love of god: Make BPOs 'decay' after a certain period of time, and get re-seeded into the agents, and make it so it's actually worth it to make copies. If it wasn't for the utterly horrible copy problem, people would probably be selling both t2 items and t2 bpcs. But the current setup IS FUBAR. If someone gets a t2 BPO they are set, period. Even the '****ty' t2 BPOs are worth a ton. People who get things like t2 cap/bcu/rail/etc BPOs pretty much 'win' EVE. I can't imagine how stupidly rich the person who gets the first cargo expander t2 BPO is going to become... ------------------------------------ Your Civilian Gatling Railgun perfectly strikes Choke Slam [CAIN], wrecking for 6.0 damage.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:35:00 - [39] How about reducing HAC build times? It strikes me that it is not their cost that is the problem, but their availability. Anyone with the skills to fly a HAC, and the need, is very likely to have the ISK. The problem is, the manufacturers can't keep up with the rate at which they are being destroyed.

Eris Discordia	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:36:00 - [40] Please post respectfulyl and keep the tempers in check. Thank you I heart all, some more then others though.

dantes inferno	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:41:00 - [41] auctioning them wont work as that will only tightne up the monoply so that only those with a hell of a lot of isk will be able to afford them. simple answer would be to add more BPO into the lottery..double or treble the current amount. half production time..then the supply can be met. _____ http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/dantesinferno80.png Only one image allowed in the signature field. Mail us if you have questions -Garik
Dakath	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:42:00 - [42] Originally by: Cmdr Sy How about reducing HAC build times? It strikes me that it is not their cost that is the problem, but their availability. Anyone with the skills to fly a HAC, and the need, is very likely to have the ISK. The problem is, the manufacturers can't keep up with the rate at which they are being destroyed. True. I have added to the problem by having 3 HACs shot out from under my ass when I made mistakes. *Dakath hangs his head in shame. 1000 baby bunnies were slow-roasted alive to create this signature line. We Hate Bunny
Meridius	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:46:00 - [43] I don't mind expensive T2 when it first hits the market. Plasma screens cost a retarded amount when they first hit the market. Prices eventually came down, the opposite seems to be happening in eve. Zealots used to be like 75-80m, now they're 130m. It sucks ________________________________________________________
RangerXT	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:47:00 - [44] Why not have BPC's be buyabe from research agents for RP's instead of optioning for the lotto. Cash in 5000 RP's for a HAC BPC or something. Could get way more of those ships out there without devasting the market for those with the BPO's but bring the overall value down of the ship down somewhat.
Wanoah	Posted - 2005.11.12 23:53:00 - [45] My solution would be to give Wanoah all the T2 BPOs. That'd work pretty well. The bottom line is that supply needs to improve on HACs, especially when you consider the build times. Eventually, they will not be even used for PvP purely because it takes so long to get one replaced. TCSP Teaser 1
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2005.11.13 00:00:00 - [46] Huh why edit my post to remove me saying my opinion counts for more than other people's ? Is being an egotist verboten ? http://eve.klaki.net/
Kahn Moquil	Posted - 2005.11.13 00:03:00 - [47] The problem with cap rechargers II is that the entire market for them is monopolized. By people who were smart when tech II bpo's were sold for a couple of hunder mil instead of the billions they go for now. The problem with hacs is that a lot of what Naga or any of the other organized manufacturers sell for 'decent' prices, is bought by resellers. That promptly put them back on the market with a big profit margin. People will by at those prices, but at the same time that makes the waiting time for 'cheap' hacs a lot longer. I agree that the lottery needs to be fixed, personally I don't think BPO auctions are the answer. But to blame the lottery for the high prices of hacs and cap recharger II's, is incorrect. It's not just the lottery, it's players who were/are inventive enough to find ways to make a profit that are just as much responsible for those high prices. BPO auctions won't change a thing about that. Say CCP puts a vagabond BPO up for auction. It won't go for less than 20 billion, and whoever wins the auction, is not going to sell the ship for 40 mil. Same goes for BPC's. If you get your hands on a cap recharger II bpc, you're not going to sell the module for less than current market price. No, you're going to sell for what people will pay for it, and history has shown that that is current market price. I wish CCP the best of luck in coming up with a system to distribute tech II bpo's, without making it any worse than the lottery...
Nybbas	Posted - 2005.11.13 00:12:00 - [48] I am fine with the lottery system... as long as bpo's keep getting seeded, this unfortunatly is not that case. For the people who have been using real life examples, look at how technology works in real life. A company comes out with some brand new technology, and its cool and unique, everyone buys their stuff because its superior, their competitors see this technology, and realize they can do the same thing, maybe with different features or whatever. After a while, this new technology is more widespread and much cheaper, and as time goes on it becomes even less expensive. I do not see how an agent magically stops being able to discover a tech 2 item type bpo after a certain number have been released... it makes no sense whatsoever. As time goes on more and more should be released. By now there should be triple the amount of hac bpos, and interceptor bpos should be a little bit uncommon.
VossKarr	Posted - 2005.11.13 00:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Maya Rkell Doris Dents, fact remains that, for example, the HAC supply remains very low (and the number of accounts has climbed over 50% while the supply has NOT) - if all 20 BPO's of a HAC are constantly in production, you get 4 a week from each - 80 HAC's a week. 80 for 75,000 players (And there WON'T be 80 either - disruptions to production and non-producing BPO's). The cap recharger II situation, well, it sucks but it's not quite the same since production is ample. THE NAIL. HIT. ON THE HEAD. Now, stick THIS^ in your cr@ck pipe, CCP, and smoke it! Release more BPOs, darn it! The current situation is ridiculous! The T2 market should be way more dynamic than that! 1 HAC per 1k of accounts per week is a laughable number!!!
Lord Artemis	Posted - 2005.11.13 00:13:00 - [50] research should fall somewhere in the lines of agent LP's, that way after an excrutiating long time building up RP's you know how far off you are, incentive to actually do the daily crap missions, this would balance out distribution as well, both the rich and poor could put in equal effort since it still isnt about money but effort and focus, i.e. research project management, working up standings, doing missions to speed up the RP. get bpc's for lower rp points get bpo's for higher rp points sick of the price of t2 component or ships? bust your butt and crank out missions and standings, get yourself a better agent. if they put in the effort they make out, if they dont they have no reason to complain. ___________________________ http://carttune.com/lord_small_alli.jpg Aegis Militia Conclave official representative C.E.O. of SHOD Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. mail us if you have questions -Garik Daemon
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2005.11.13 00:20:00 - [51] I wouldn't say cap rech II are monopolized all that much, it's just that there's too much demand for people to have any reason to charge less. I.e. too few bpos. http://eve.klaki.net/
Maggot	Posted - 2005.11.13 00:22:00 - [52] no auction please, just means the big boys can buy more bpos and the smaller guys loose their income streams. The T2 markets I am in are already poor earners.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.11.13 00:34:00 - [53] There simply is no clear solution to this problem. Since the real problem are the blueprint originals themselves. Once a person has one, either by being simply lucky in the lottery or very rich and buying one, he has it for ever. CCP has only tools to increase the number of productionable items in the game, not to decrease it. Also because of how blueprints are obtained, the whole industry is dominated by individuals rarely spreading the wealth over a whole corporation. Besides: the devastating results of a theft/loss combined with lack of security tools or repercussions means that high profit production (and the reaping of the profits) is often restricted to top level members or individuals anyway and they take almost no risk with it. All blueprints should be turned into licensed runs. Ofcourse the people that have paid billions for their blueprints will threaten to quit over such a move (well many more will, but without such a good reason). So CCP should give these copies enough runs so the owners can make their investment back using normal marketprices for the blueprint and the ships. After that CCP could then start seeding the limited run copies on the market by agent missions, research projects (demanding investment in both time and money), event awards, pirate drops, complex bosses, whatever. Since the impact will never be the same as a bpo, also because they won't last forever, CCP has much more room to play with. These runs can then be researched, reducing production time and mineral cost, which will revitalise the research industry since they always be in demand, and it will be less of a risk to hire outside researchers. Perhaps research could be allowed to split up licenses over multiple blueprints so manufacturers could increase production or take some risks and send a few licenses to 0.0. In the end I think producers will reap the benefits of it. More areas of T1 production will again be profitable because of licenses decreasing on the flooded market. Yes more people will be able to get their hands on copies and start producing, but I think, since it requires investment of time and money to get them, I doubt many people will bother with actually starting to produce items from them, unless they are serious into production. A production company then would no longer be able to flash a few times with a big wallet and after that dominate the industry with little effort from there one other then buying minerals and components. They would also have to either keep buying licences from the market, or have a division dedicated to obtaining new ones. Lets hope this will make some of the wealth trickle to some of the worker bees. It's just an idea. Not perfect, but still better then the alternatives like and open auction or lottery. Who put those rats in the fridge?!
Silver Lady	Posted - 2005.11.13 00:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/11/2005 21:42:38 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Prices on certain highly in-demand items are becoming borderline retarded. 120-130 million for a heavy assault springs to mind. It's high time something is done to break the monopolies enjoyed for far too long by those who own these blueprints. Oh and save the "if it's too expensive, don't buy it" line. Its much easier to just release the BPOs to agents. There's no "monopoly", just not enough supply for the insane demand. NAGA, for example, sells Ishtars for 65m each. There's a 8 month waiting list because so many people want an Ishtar. Yes release the bpos to agents so some guy can randomly get billions apon billions of isk with no effort at all. Great idea! CCP needs to auction a lot of HAC bpos or do something to bring there price down. It's retarded. Does running agent missions and training the required skills for researching for weeks equal to "no effort atall"?
Lord Artemis	Posted - 2005.11.13 01:11:00 - [55] making the copy time of bpo's faster would sure help things out quite a dam bit. atm its a bit lame how long it takes to make a duplicate of an original. on that note we have had tech II into the stream of market for some time and after over a year the rarity of obtaining those items and bpo's is still ridiculous at this rate of inflation and tipped scale of supply/demand Tech III Capacitor Recharger 100,000,000 isk ___________________________ http://carttune.com/lord_small_alli.jpg Aegis Militia Conclave official representative C.E.O. of SHOD Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. mail us if you have questions -Garik Daemon
Krait	Posted - 2005.11.13 01:19:00 - [56] Everyone knows the current situation is terrible. There are weekly threads discussing the supply problem. The Developers do not comment on it, because they know that the current process is poorly implemented (except for those of you that "win" the lottery). There is no adequate reason for the supply of bp's to be so constrained. The only reason I can think of is that CCP is so gun shy after totally screwing up the bp copy process at the premature release of the game that they are unable to take any chances on the economy or whatever this is supposed to be. _______________________________________________ ...been there, done that
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2005.11.13 01:28:00 - [57] NO DONT! But in all seriously for gods sakes CCP there are researchers like myself with over 380k RP in caldari starship engineering who have never had the joy of an offer, I really hope that something is done in the future about this. Oh who am I kidding, Just seed some more BPOs dangit.
Nybbas	Posted - 2005.11.13 01:38:00 - [58] there is a very clear solution to this problem, release more bpos of already seeded tech 2 items.
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.11.13 02:23:00 - [59] IMO, the best solution is to eliminate the lottery and replace it with something akin to the LP rewards we have with normal agents. Say like, 150K RP and 500m isk for a HAC BPO? Also, at really low RP levels you could cash in for say...10K RP and 20m isk to get a 1 run HAC BPC. Even a level 4 agent would need almost a month to get enough RP for that 1 run BPC. This eliminates the uselessness of the lotto, providing a more even ability for anyone to gain access to T2 BPs of both types, and helps to alleviate the supply problem. All it costs is a LOT of time, and a fair amount of isk. Perhaps the R&D missions can be revamped slightly to be more interesting too, and instead of just doubling the daily RP, grant RP rewards deepending on the mission difficulty...much like LP is now, yet still keep them restricted to 1 mission a day. My Solution for Drone Balancing...since it must be done.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.11.13 02:34:00 - [60] Originally by: Silver Lady Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 12/11/2005 21:42:38 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Prices on certain highly in-demand items are becoming borderline retarded. 120-130 million for a heavy assault springs to mind. It's high time something is done to break the monopolies enjoyed for far too long by those who own these blueprints. Oh and save the "if it's too expensive, don't buy it" line. Its much easier to just release the BPOs to agents. There's no "monopoly", just not enough supply for the insane demand. NAGA, for example, sells Ishtars for 65m each. There's a 8 month waiting list because so many people want an Ishtar. Yes release the bpos to agents so some guy can randomly get billions apon billions of isk with no effort at all. Great idea! CCP needs to auction a lot of HAC bpos or do something to bring there price down. It's retarded. Does running agent missions and training the required skills for researching for weeks equal to "no effort atall"? Nothing that requires skill. There are tons of people who don't do any missions and just check there accounts while the RP keeps building up. You also have people who win multi-billion isk bpos with barely any RP at all. Yeah, great system ________________________________________________________

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