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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
St Dragon
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Posted - 2005.11.13 02:48:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Ticondrius
IMO, the best solution is to eliminate the lottery and replace it with something akin to the LP rewards we have with normal agents.
Say like, 150K RP and 500m isk for a HAC BPO? Also, at really low RP levels you could cash in for say...10K RP and 20m isk to get a 1 run HAC BPC. Even a level 4 agent would need almost a month to get enough RP for that 1 run BPC.
This eliminates the uselessness of the lotto, providing a more even ability for anyone to gain access to T2 BPs of both types, and helps to alleviate the supply problem. All it costs is a LOT of time, and a fair amount of isk. Perhaps the R&D missions can be revamped slightly to be more interesting too, and instead of just doubling the daily RP, grant RP rewards deepending on the mission difficulty...much like LP is now, yet still keep them restricted to 1 mission a day.
I like your idea in theory but of course the cost will need to be higher for example.
1 mil RP and 900mil isk for a H.A.C./cap recharger 2 bpo
The best solution will be the one that anyone can do even a newbie like me can work for it in the beginning doing reserch missions like hauling reserch supplies or for big RP gain get told that a rare form of omber was detected deep in 0.0 you need to go to the bookmark and mine 100 units of this special rare omber that is spawned when you enter the system you are told to go to then you must return with the omber to complete the mission.
Basically make the missions interesting and boring [hauling missions] With the occasional hard one.
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.11.13 03:03:00 -
[62]
Introducing limited run BPCs for LPs through agents would help the situation immensely.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.11.13 03:05:00 -
[63]
Bah, Doris stole my arguements from months ago.
@Tyyrak (sp?) dont say "please do something before 2007". They will then fix it Dec 2006
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Khargos
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Posted - 2005.11.13 03:05:00 -
[64]
Originally by: VossKarr
Introducing limited run BPCs for LPs through agents would help the situation immensely.
Not really, then There really wouldnt be any point at all to the research "career" path.
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Zekks MarKeys
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Posted - 2005.11.13 03:23:00 -
[65]
You know the wonderful thing about this game its unfair  infact i don't have a tech2 bpo although i am working atm eventualy to buy one. To do that i'm using my brain. I'm looking at the least effort activities to make the most isk. I have been working for lots of months now planning, testing, creating oportunities using a little common sense. It may take me a long time to aquire enough wealth to buy a t2 bpo. That is my goal and when i do i will stop looking at threads like this. omg its so unfair blah de blah de blah prices are too high. And WHEN i get a bpo however long it takes i WILL charge the market price for them. If you don't like that price then don't buy it who knows you may just put me out of business but i doubt it. 
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2005.11.13 03:25:00 -
[66]
hairs already falling off at the sight of the topic
Must not scream...
I will calm a bit and come back to the subject later on
Originally by: Oveur
I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.
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MarkX
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Posted - 2005.11.13 03:26:00 -
[67]
I'll /sign this
Because when I do spend money, the last thing I want is over priced bpo crap. Rather have some R&D agents that actually work.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.11.13 05:59:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Zekks MarKeys
You know the wonderful thing about this game its unfair infact i don't have a tech2 bpo although i am working atm eventualy to buy one. To do that i'm using my brain. I'm looking at the least effort activities to make the most isk. I have been working for lots of months now planning, testing, creating oportunities using a little common sense. It may take me a long time to aquire enough wealth to buy a t2 bpo. That is my goal and when i do i will stop looking at threads like this. omg its so unfair blah de blah de blah prices are too high. And WHEN i get a bpo however long it takes i WILL charge the market price for them. If you don't like that price then don't buy it who knows you may just put me out of business but i doubt it.
Blah blah. A lot of people that have posted in this thread have t2 bpos fyi.
It's still broken tho
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Phenomenor
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Posted - 2005.11.13 07:02:00 -
[69]
...Sigh.
I could start about decaying BPOs again and how that would solve all the issues, with more BPs
being seeded and the better competition options coming forth from doing so, but....then again, i would also lure out the rich and famous to flame us all here...
Sort is CCP lol
Phen
"The more we know, the brighter the light, but the greater the mating face with things still in the dark..." |
Titen
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Posted - 2005.11.13 07:44:00 -
[70]
A year ago I started playin eve. Love it.
A year ago the max number of players I figured I'd ever see online was around 8k.
Now there are regularly nearly twice that many online.
My guess would be that the total player count in Eve has doubled.. if not tripled.. in the last year.
Three times as many people require three times as many ships. Supply and demand does play a role.. but when its a G A M E that we're playing, the supply should be available. If that means more BPO's... like two or three times as many.. then so be it.
As for the 'monopoly' aspect.. those who call it that are absouletly correct. It takes major isk to get your hands on a truly profitable print.. and the ONLY people who have that kind of isk are those who can make as much as 500% profit from building things.. guess who -
I'd say the only way to make it so the newer - or even the established - industrial corporations in the universe.. can get into T2 production - is to limit the number of T2 prints that any corp can hold. I'd say ONE. I'd also say that any alliance could hold no more than one for every three corps within it.
But hey.. I'm just thinking about 'fair' here.
And dont give me the 'but would it be fair for those corps who already have more than one T2 print to have to give them up?'
Yes.. it would be.
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.11.13 07:48:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 13/11/2005 07:47:56
Originally by: Doris Dents
Also itĘd be then end of a much needed isk drain on the economy.
Don't know how you mean that. Not a single isk leaves the economy by paying 140 mil isk to another player. So it's not an isk sink. The player who gets the 140 mil isk spends it somewhere else after that.
ISK flow into the game by mission rewards, bounties, sales to npcs, insurance payouts etc. and leave the game by station fees, market fees, insurance contract payments, buys from npc market and some more. Without that the total amount of isk would stay the same and isk would only change the owner.
'This is either my own opinion or not an opinion at all.' |
Spy4Hire
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Posted - 2005.11.13 07:56:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Prices on certain highly in-demand items are becoming borderline retarded. 120-130 million for a heavy assault springs to mind. It's high time something is done to break the monopolies enjoyed for far too long by those who own these blueprints.
Oh and save the "if it's too expensive, don't buy it" line.
No... no no, don't start AUCTIONING T2 BPs. Every single auction would be won by the very same corps that have them now and are making more money that they can *throw* away. They would just snap up every offered BPO and keep doing what they've been doing all along.
Just increase the release rate of high demand (i.e. stupidly expensive) T2 BPOs. CCP should look at their market more closely and see what T2 items are being abused rediculously and release BPOs accordingly, not release them by open auction to the filthiest rich.
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.11.13 08:06:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 13/11/2005 08:06:30
Originally by: Spy4Hire
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Prices on certain highly in-demand items are becoming borderline retarded. 120-130 million for a heavy assault springs to mind. It's high time something is done to break the monopolies enjoyed for far too long by those who own these blueprints.
Oh and save the "if it's too expensive, don't buy it" line.
No... no no, don't start AUCTIONING T2 BPs. Every single auction would be won by the very same corps that have them now and are making more money that they can *throw* away. They would just snap up every offered BPO and keep doing what they've been doing all along.
Just increase the release rate of high demand (i.e. stupidly expensive) T2 BPOs. CCP should look at their market more closely and see what T2 items are being abused rediculously and release BPOs accordingly, not release them by open auction to the filthiest rich.
Afaik, CCPs plan was to auction one T2 BPO of each (!) T2 item per month. The price for most t2 items would go down, that's for sure.
E.g. nobody could afford to win a cap-recharger-2 bpo in an auction every month. If you own that BPO, you want to make money with it and as long as the price of the CPR-2 stays the same, the BPO for it won't get much cheaper in the auction.
If you want to buy them all, you would have to spend many billions of isk each month without an end in sight.
'This is either my own opinion or not an opinion at all.' |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.11.13 09:09:00 -
[74]
Drop a few more of all BPO's into agents. Supply was fine when there were less players playing, but more an more people are playing, and working into HAC's.
Also, and I'm sure people will hate it, add some BPC's to either agent offers for a ton of LP's.
Or, make RP's able to be cashed out for BPC's, kinda like the LP system works. So you can continue to save RP's, or maybe get a offer for a small run tech 2 BPC you want, and cash out. Nice thing about this, is research system cannot be farmed, you cannot get more RP's than your total + mission bonus. So you cannot flood the market.
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Nifel
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Posted - 2005.11.13 10:35:00 -
[75]
Why am I seeing lots of people still not getting that the auction system would be the fairest system?:|
You put in the effort, you get the reward. None of that 'lucky-me' **** that comes with the lottery system.
Oh and for all those that DON'T know, it'd be a monthly auction, minimum bid would be 5 billion and buyout 50 billion (according to the drawingboard). That means that all those big scary T2 monopolies wouldn't be able to buy the bpos month after month because there simply isn't that much money lying around in EVE (for just one corporation/alliance).
Example:
T2 monopoly can put together about 30B ISK rather easily and they do so the first month buying the zealot bpo. They now earn a lot more because of the market prices (unless they're NAGA in which case they'll earn a lot less). It will take them more than a month however to get back all that ISK so the next month they can't bid for the zealot bpo because they used nearly all the money they had. Someone else will get it.
That's the whole idea behind a monthly t2 bpo auction.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
RKK Ranking: (MIN12) Marinda |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.11.13 10:55:00 -
[76]
It's heartbreaking to see Mr Balance himself championing the rich mans cause here over the lucky bastards, it really is, but where did you pull those numbers from?
Just scam some BPO holder why don't you and stop worrying about how others get ripped off when it's not by you.
I market my HACs for 95M yet hardly anyone buy them so FOAD, pardon my french.
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.13 11:04:00 -
[77]
t2 BPCs available through research agents not via Loyalty points - that keeps the research arm of skills and career in place but 1-2 runs of all BPCs will mean that if someone with a BPO leaves the game that BPO t2 isnt lost forever that is the biggest reason for scarcity in some areas of the game - t2 BPC 1-5 run drops would seed a lot more players with that production potential and open up some competition - even those drops could be kept to a moderate level to keep the scaricity of t2 versus t1 in check
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.11.13 11:37:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Khargos
Originally by: VossKarr
Introducing limited run BPCs for LPs through agents would help the situation immensely.
Not really, then There really wouldn't be any point at all to the research "career" path.
"Not really?" Ugh, why not? Check my post and what the OP and the rest of the thread were griping about. My idea for "limited run BPC for LP's" wasn't about helping establish a point to "the research "career" path."
It was about an immediate increase in the availability of HAC's by the means easiest to implement from a Dev POV - which is what would definitely happen, if it were implemented.
If the Dev's are so reluctant to release more BPO's until the whole system is overhauled, then this, imho, is the way to go for now to help alleviate the supply vs demand problem.
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Tommy Twoguns
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Posted - 2005.11.13 11:45:00 -
[79]
So long as the auctions rely on RP's I do not see a problem.
If I want to bid 380k Research Points in Caldari Starship Engineering for a HAC BPO, then it is up to someone with more research Points to outbid me. If however we are talking about bidding with ISK, I just dont like it.
Unfortunately there are ways of getting ISK from outside of the game, while ever this is possible it then becomes possible for the person who has $$$' s in RL to buy these BPO's. This cannot be fair.
My 2 ISK
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.11.13 12:06:00 -
[80]
Auctions using ISK as the currency would be a huge mistake, it would compound the monopolistic nature of the T2 market.
CCP needs to remove the lottery, and introduce an RP system similar to the LP system.
Your agent lists all the T2 BPO's he can supply, there is an RP cost associated with those BPO's.
Once you have the required number of RP's, you can put your name on a waiting list for that BPO. Next time the BPO is seeded, the agent hands them out by going right down the "seniority" list.
It should also be possible to have a corp RP account, so ppl's RP's go into this account, and the corp gets their name on the BPO waiting list.
It should be a first come first serve system, the more work you put in, the faster you can get RP's, the better chance you have of getting a BPO.
Luck or amount of ISK in your wallet should play no part in obtaining these BPO's, those are flawed methods of BPO acquisition. It should be based solely on hard work and collaboration between corp Research Agent runners.
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Current Hobby other than EVE |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.13 12:15:00 -
[81]
bhall good ideas all round but lets keep the BPO seeding the same - very rare and rewards but ....
a BPC system with smaller amounts of RPs - a fixed price. The lottery would be the timing of outputs of BPCs 1-10 run in nature. And also similar to LPs a sliding scale of RPs for t2 BPC runs being realised to many many more players - players would then be faced hold onto RP for the t2 BPO lottery or take a small run BPC for x amount of RPs and produce what u get and try to make a profit on market - would creat a little bit more supply and a wider source of supplies (could also give research agents in low sec outer regions and seed the low sec markets as well)
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Jacques Archambault
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Posted - 2005.11.13 12:28:00 -
[82]
Just a gentle reminder to all who post here - please keep things civil and refrain from any flaming.
Your friendly neighbourhood Mod Team thanks you in advance.
Jacques'
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.11.13 12:43:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Bhaal on 13/11/2005 12:44:22
Originally by: sonofollo
bhall good ideas all round but lets keep the BPO seeding the same - very rare and rewards but ....
a BPC system with smaller amounts of RPs - a fixed price. The lottery would be the timing of outputs of BPCs 1-10 run in nature. And also similar to LPs a sliding scale of RPs for t2 BPC runs being realised to many many more players - players would then be faced hold onto RP for the t2 BPO lottery or take a small run BPC for x amount of RPs and produce what u get and try to make a profit on market - would creat a little bit more supply and a wider source of supplies (could also give research agents in low sec outer regions and seed the low sec markets as well)
I'm not suggesting CCP change the ammount of BPO's released. You could very well be on the list for a BPO, but you could be number 50 on that list. Agents (CCP) would need to inform players where they stand on this list, but not make it public knowledge.
If a BPO is seeded, and you don't get one, the agents start handing out max run BPC's, and offer them to ppl on the list for a fraction of the RP's, right one down the line, all the way down to 1 run BPC's...
If you know you're next on the list for a BPO, and CCP informs you they will only re-seed if an in game BPO is lost, or is inactive, you can choose to wait it out, or put your RP's on some other list...
They need to take luck and ISK (eBay) out of the T2 BPO system.
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Current Hobby other than EVE |
Nifel
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Posted - 2005.11.13 12:55:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Tommy Twoguns
So long as the auctions rely on RP's I do not see a problem.
If I want to bid 380k Research Points in Caldari Starship Engineering for a HAC BPO, then it is up to someone with more research Points to outbid me. If however we are talking about bidding with ISK, I just dont like it.
Unfortunately there are ways of getting ISK from outside of the game, while ever this is possible it then becomes possible for the person who has $$$' s in RL to buy these BPO's. This cannot be fair.
My 2 ISK
So you think there's someone out there willing to pay roughly 5800 dollars for a 20b t2 bpo? Wow... some people truly are stupid.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
RKK Ranking: (MIN12) Marinda |
Riggwelter
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Posted - 2005.11.13 13:01:00 -
[85]
The BPO should still come from agents and not be bought. However it should require a lot more effort than it does at present.
Suggetions include.
1) Only being entered into the lottery if youve done a mission in the week ( a little like LP offers)
2) Only accumulating RP from actually doing missions.
3) Some involvemnt from the new mini professions that are in the infancy.
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Tommy Twoguns
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Posted - 2005.11.13 13:20:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Tommy Twoguns on 13/11/2005 13:22:27
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Tommy Twoguns
So long as the auctions rely on RP's I do not see a problem.
If I want to bid 380k Research Points in Caldari Starship Engineering for a HAC BPO, then it is up to someone with more research Points to outbid me. If however we are talking about bidding with ISK, I just dont like it.
Unfortunately there are ways of getting ISK from outside of the game, while ever this is possible it then becomes possible for the person who has $$$' s in RL to buy these BPO's. This cannot be fair.
My 2 ISK
So you think there's someone out there willing to pay roughly 5800 dollars for a 20b t2 bpo? Wow... some people truly are stupid.
I have no knowledge of what 20b ISK equates to in real life, nor do I wish to know. All i am saying is that it is a possibility and as such would be unfair. 5800 dollars may be a lot to you and me but if that T2 BPO is capable of making the buyer 1 Billion + per week/month.......doesn't that then become worthwhile, especially if they are also in the market of selling ISK as well as buying?
Stupidity doesn't really come in to it.
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2005.11.13 13:32:00 -
[87]
[conservative_mode=on]
There is no need for complex and potentially flawed systems of wealth redistribution. The build times just need to be halved, to keep up with the rate at which HACs are destroyed. This will stabilise supply and prices, but at a lavel high enough (tens of millions of ISK) to ensure their elite status.
[conservative_mode=off]
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.11.13 21:17:00 -
[88]
Oveur, baby! We crave input!
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Spy4Hire
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Posted - 2005.11.13 23:29:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Snake Jankins
Originally by: Spy4Hire
Just increase the release rate of high demand (i.e. stupidly expensive) T2 BPOs. CCP should look at their market more closely and see what T2 items are being abused rediculously and release BPOs accordingly, not release them by open auction to the filthiest rich.
Afaik, CCPs plan was to auction one T2 BPO of each (!) T2 item per month. The price for most t2 items would go down, that's for sure.
They would release a maximum of 12 T2 BPOs for each item (1 per monht), that is hardly a dent in the current scarcity of T2 BPs. Now, if I had a handful of HAC BPOs, do you think I would not be bending over backwards trying to buy up any newly available BPOs of my stock? Most of the corps selling these things have so much profit in them that they'll almost bankrupt themselves to prevent an increase in availability... i.e. buy up every BP offered at auction regardless of price.
Quote:
E.g. nobody could afford to win a cap-recharger-2 bpo in an auction every month.
Not if they just got that BPO a few months ago, but the ones who have had that BP since its release will have plenty of money to buy up every auction BPO of that item - why? Because they are getting profits from more than just their existing CPR2 stock.
Quote:
If you own that BPO, you want to make money with it and as long as the price of the CPR-2 stays the same, the BPO for it won't become much cheaper in the auction.
If you can outbid everyone, then the release of auctioned BPs will not affect prices in the least for the end users. And that is CCP's goal, making these mods available for most of the players, rather than just the monied few.
Quote:
If you want to buy them all, you'll have to spend many billions of isk each month without an end in sight.
Only the billions on the BPOs you want, or want to prevent becoming more available. And once you've bought the twelve monthly auctioned BPOs, well, you've got your monopoly again and can start rebuilding your profits.
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Ashelth
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Posted - 2005.11.14 01:00:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
NAGA, for example, sells Ishtars for 65m each. There's a 8 month waiting list because so many people want an Ishtar.
*looks at the new drones coomming soon*
Man that guy at the end of the line is gonna get SKEWED
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