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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
M0535
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:31:00 -
[121]
I would be interested to find out what CCP's definition of a fleet battle is, as it is advertised as a game feature - not a 'in testing' or 'coming soon' feature, but an actual feature.
Maybe we are allowed a maximum of 20 ships, not each, just total ????
If CCP believe that the servers can cope, but players cannot, maybe they should make an official statement about it.
As for the H-PA thing, there were no winners, just lucky people who managed to find the ability to warp out. Both sides lost IMO
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:43:00 -
[122]
Edited by: sonofollo on 15/11/2005 12:44:29
well at the moment we all know if we engage in a large scale battle that the devs wont refund lost ships due to massive lag. So if alliances want to use the my fleet is bigger than youre fleet up front approach they had better use cheaper ships or be prepared to loose a bit (this is also driving a lot of alliance shake ups and mass defections - corp movement at present) and the ship builders etc are also making a profit so there are winners and just ignorant PVP alliances who will soon adpat smaller gangs guriella tactics and hit their enemies when not many are around for added strengths at least until the RMR is in and the blade servers are running and even dual processors 64 bit or several CPus being able to support a single node
U will find CCP have made a statement abielt a silent one by not refunding any ships lost in these large battles by issuing a generic standard rejection from all those petitions - in not denying it they are saying do it at youre own risk until things are improved
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TitusCrow
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Posted - 2005.11.15 12:58:00 -
[123]
if you ppl feel strongly about this stage a demonstration in a system in empire get as many players there as possible and maybe ccp will take notice of how many ppl are sick of the so called 'customer care'
but tbh i don't think they would care
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:03:00 -
[124]
what a repeat of the 4s jita thing - mmm lets see everyone involved being reset to -5 standing - oh worse still more lag nerfing cause the servers crash so much and annoy all the other players. Nah cant see that as an idea just get used to the fact that if u are involved in a large scale massive fleet battle the system cant handle u wont be getting a refund as its more client side lag than server side lag and CCP dont refund for that. Let them work on the game to reduce the lag - accept the insta and drone changes - constructive ideas ive put forward could be used in balancing. And then u can have youe large fleet battles (also once the blade servers go in) CCP still appear to be doing a good job but the china setup is taking manhous away but more $$$$ gotta = longer survivability down the track for TQ
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Flyer11
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:18:00 -
[125]
 Originally by: TitusCrow
if you ppl feel strongly about this stage a demonstration in a system in empire get as many players there as possible and maybe ccp will take notice of how many ppl are sick of the so called 'customer care'
but tbh i don't think they would care
i doubt staging a protest to get their attention like 4s did in jita with loads of shuttles and crashing the server would only get us more greif from other players which is far from the point.. the issue isnt with other players its with ccp.. and by crashing the server will just get us banned or something so i dont think it's much of a option apart from keep this thread alive, even tho the guys will never read it as were a small minority
and also jita's high sec.. some of us cant get into high sec with a standing of -6.3 
FLy
CEO And Founder of
H20 Designz |
duchess eff
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:21:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Drilla
If one guy say CCP is wrong - it's word against word. If 300+ people, several different fraps video say CCP is wrong it ignorance thinking CCP is right.
Take this discussion as another example. No ccp statement except *snip*s, they DO read this post, but they don't care $0.02 for you - get used to it
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Baconjoe
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Posted - 2005.11.15 13:29:00 -
[127]
Your are so correct in all your comments drilla. Except one. CCp has never went intyo this game at any point with any exceptable level of customer service.
In my experience I have been let down by EVERY petition i have ever submitted to CCP. I even asked to cancel my account but because i pay for an entire year in advance they would not give me my money back! And I have 3 accounts.
We dont need ccp to reply either. There stance has not changed it is "like it or lump it" 
We are cursed men
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Heavenly Explorer
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Posted - 2005.11.15 14:14:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Heavenly Explorer on 15/11/2005 14:14:34
I filed a petition two days ago, and yesterday I recieved a auto-response email back:
"Hi
Due to the extreme load we are experiencing at Customer Support, we have not
been able to answer your request.
Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause you and we want
to thank you for your patience."
... And now just 5 minutes ago, I get a *second* one of these emails! (that message is written twice in the email) That just goes to show how backlogged they are atm.
 Unlucky to be a GM.
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Bazman
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Posted - 2005.11.15 14:18:00 -
[129]
I used to get reimbursements for ships lost in PVP up until about 3 months ago. A notable petition that was successful was when a 20 man 5 group jumped into a similar sized Imperium group near J-LO about 4 months ago. I died before loading as my ship broke cloak to do the emergency warp due to lag and i got blootered by the enemy fleet. Didn't need to provide any evidence or anything, got my ship back no problem.
However more recently with the lag caused by eve-mail generation on ship death I have lost several pods simply because the client becomes unresponsive for anywhere between 5-15 seconds. Its a well known bug and its since this bug became apparent that any reimbursement petitions have been denied. I guess its simply because everyones overloading with petitions about it.
CCP owe me a low grade slave set because of this, I want it back! :P
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Moominer
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Posted - 2005.11.15 14:36:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Moominer on 15/11/2005 14:37:55
It is clear that reimbursements when looking at NPCing and PvPing losses are skewed - why is this? Possibly the NPC logs give a more accurate picture, or is less open to fraudulent reimbursement claims.
At the end of the day the fact that there are reimbursements for losses occurred during "server lag" is the whole problem in itself. Don't get me wrong, it's great and all when you are on the receiving end of such a loss, but it's open to such problems (some highlighted here) but the most likely outcome is complaining so much the whole reimbursement policy is canned, much like any other MMOG:
All other MMOGs I have played - any kind of customer service request to reimburse items was met with laughable ignorance, and the only time I have seen other MMOGs actually reimburse is when there is a *massive* server issue (corruption for example) or in the event of security issues on an individuals account (someone maliciously deletes your character/assets etc.)
The question we should be asking ourselves is not whether or not there should be *better* access to reimbursements, but whether reimbursements should remain at all in this current (and somewhat unfair) "grey" state. if server load is actually improved upon (which CCP state they are working at) the only logical course of action is to scrap reimbursements for anything but serious server bugs/corruption/security issues etc.
Eve Fitting Manager |
Yzman Shhan
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Posted - 2005.11.15 15:54:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Discorporation
Will say it again, jumping in with 200 ships on 80 ships is stupid 
Well the situation wasn't much better yesterday when .5. jumped in on our 14 ship group with about 20 (dunno really how many, that's the numbers i heard mentioned) and immediately we started seeing them emergency warping out due to CTD's.. I saw at least 4 of them crash and disappear from local.
If about 35 ships cause problems, of course 200 to 100 will as would have 20 jumping in on their 100 or so ships.. 
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KIATolon
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Posted - 2005.11.15 15:59:00 -
[132]
If a 20 v 20 is impossible then that's completely unacceptable imo.
I can understand 200 v 200's struggling till the new servers are up and kali is coded, but a 20 v 20.
That's just wrong :(
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Jamius
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Posted - 2005.11.15 16:00:00 -
[133]
Signed.
I have already cancelled both my accounts on the principle that I am a customer and will not put up being treated as I have been.
I can't obviously talk about the details of my failed petition that made me quit but these hard black and white re-imbursement rules need are not good enough. An element of commen sense needs to be used in making decisions.
I supplied game logs and chat logs (with the people that killed my bugged ship saying THEY would back up my petition) and got one generic statement after another pointing me to the EULA or stating other rules - disgusting and the reason I am quitting a game I dearly love.
What is lost in re-imbursing people easier - the odd person getting a ship back that they deserved to lose? - oh my god the travesty (sarcastic in case your wondering) - that is much less of a big deal than hundreds of people not getting back stuff they lost due to problems with Eve.
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Drilla
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Posted - 2005.11.15 16:31:00 -
[134]
As I stated earlier it's not about reimbursements I've lost but the GM/CCP stance to this.
I want to be treated with just a little bit of respect by the GMs - but apparently that's too much to ask.
I was in that fight yesterday against F-E and we had indeed people CTD because our 18 jumped into their ~ 10-15 ships and a bubble. That's just wrong - module lag was 'normal' with a 3-4 seconds response timer.
What I want out of this thread is that Keiron or a CCP dev tells us they are aware of the problem and that reimbursement petitions wont be a "cut'n'paste" job from now on. I'm not aiming for a reimbursement revolution but being asked to be treated decently isn't an unfair question.
CCP should man up and admit that the game simply cant cope with bigger battles and that anything above X vs. X should be avoided atm. - I've fought 50v50 before with minimal lag - granted back then we were aiming for 10000 people online but still.
An official response from CCP acknowlegding the problem but that they will not change the reimbursement ratio, but will instruct the GMs to write a personal reply is sufficient for me.
It's not the players that advertises this game with Dynamic Tactical Combat with combat situations ranging from small skirmishes to 100 player fleet battles. now is it?
Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost! |
aggro
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Posted - 2005.11.15 17:01:00 -
[135]
Edited by: aggro on 15/11/2005 17:05:28
the way i see it is
people would like the gms and ccp to admit that there is a problem with lag,bugs etc.
instead we have the situation where they bury there heads in the sand and quote our logs dont show a problem you are all liars.
people dont expect to have their ships reimburse 100% of the time in pvp, but at least some of the time where it is evident that the ship loss was due to log and bugs.
with the lack of response from ccp and gms they are driving away many loyal players of 2+yrs with ther attitude. i for one have cancelled my 2 accounts and am waiting for another mmorp to come out in december which i know many from my corp and alliance will be giving it a try.
Where there is trouble you will always find AGGRO |
Zagum Darkfin
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Posted - 2005.11.15 17:51:00 -
[136]
Standard Responses from GMs from a Known Event is showing the lack of customer service we now demand from our service providers. CCP, this is not just a design a half-arse game, ship it and make tons of money kind of market now. The days of Verant/Sony/EQ, EA/Ultima Online, and Ubisoft/Shadowbane feeding us gamers a load of crap and expecting us to ask for more ARE OVER. YOU ARE IN THE SERVICE BUSINESS AND YOUR SERVICE RIGHT NOW IS LACKING.
Overall CCP has been top notch, but this kind of stuff is not necessary as us gamers know you can do better. If CCP is not concerned about keeping loyal paying customers, then this current set of action is obvious.
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Ashteron'n'KA
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Posted - 2005.11.15 18:35:00 -
[137]
..Customer Service - is that what thier calling it?! - how bout "autoresponder-email-server-maintainance-group/stress-testing-analysts"... thats sounds more appropriate.. look its real simple dude - take em off salary and pay them for the problems they actually solve. (put em on commission i.e.: they get a comission based opn the customer satisfaction score in the questionare - cut the base salary in half - then youll see some motivated CS agents believe me. The ones that are actually helpful will start to be more obvious. The ones that spew boilerplate awnsers will just wither away.) PLUS OVERHEAD WILL GO DOWN! REVENUES WILL GO UP =) how do you like them apples!?
When dinner or rent is at stake people seem to somehow perform at a higher level.
I dont know why...
It just turns out that way.
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.11.15 19:08:00 -
[138]
Iv'e told you this before, yes ccp are a service provider, but to them you are 'gamer' not a customer...
You are Hi galk, Not dear Mr...
As for the status of getting them to give you anything other than generic responce, don't hold your breath, nearly every customer service falls back on that one when the system is at fault.
And more sadly, because this industry has 'zero' regulation, there is nothing and nobody to backup the customers, and to ensure ccp provide their paying customers with a fair and honest service, aside good faith. This is something which in my opinion is mindless given that it's a multi million dollar industry now, they can pretty much do as they like... you have to take it as it comes.
Ofcourse you can up sticks and leave if you feel that strongly about it, but given the nature of mmorpgs and what they mean to people on a personal level, the efforts you put in, many people would shy away from doing that (which ccp or any mmorpg running company are well aware of), or atleast have second thoughts and change their minds before actualy hitting the cancel button.
Iv'e semi documented my encounters with ccp's customer services before so i won't go into detail, but i was extremly unhappy with what actualy transpired in my dealings with them. To have admisions from them of certain events in one mail, then in the next have a complete denial of them saying that, even though i was quoting them in my replys was just plain upsettting... they could simply say as they wished, and were doing.
-----------
When they asked me if i knew you, id smile and say you were a friend of mine.
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Drilla
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Posted - 2005.11.15 20:25:00 -
[139]
Ashteron'n'KA - I like your idea.
See CCP, it's not all flames, stop the stonewalling!
Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost! |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.11.15 20:36:00 -
[140]
The only reason they don't give an inch is because then every carebear who lost a ship to a pirate would go for a mile.
My Customer Service experience was great. A certain GM with a name very similar in spelling to a famed Final Fantasy VII responded quickly to my stuck petition, moving my ship and equipment to a system where I did not have the problem. This was within about 30 minutes of the petition, which I think was very reasonable.
The more CCP uses modules to resolve balance issues instead of systemwide rules, the more control CCP will have over how EVE works. CCP, please keep this in mind before swinging the nerfbat. |
Drilla
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Posted - 2005.11.15 20:55:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Corvus Dove
A certain GM with a name very similar in spelling to a famed Final Fantasy VII responded quickly to my stuck petition, moving my ship and equipment to a system where I did not have the problem.
Try asking for reimbursement and come back here.
Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost! |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.11.15 21:07:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Drilla
Originally by: Corvus Dove
A certain GM with a name very similar in spelling to a famed Final Fantasy VII responded quickly to my stuck petition, moving my ship and equipment to a system where I did not have the problem.
Try asking for reimbursement and come back here.
Don't ask. That's how it gets reimbursed.
Once got destroyed, lost a bunch of skillbooks but they weren't in the can and they weren't on the destroyed list. I didn't petition asking/demanding my 2 mil in books back, I petitioned asking if they could take a peek and see where my books went.
I get the feeling a lot of problems come from how people are asking, not what people are asking. People tend to treat CCP pretty crappy. I work in the low-to-mid-risk car collections and customer service industry for a major financial corporation, and a customer asking nicely for help gets late charges waived, credit fixed, the works. SOmeone's an ass but wants the same thing, they get nothing. Someone's an aggressive ass, they better start walking.
The sooner the customer realizes they aren't always right, and when they are they shouldn't act like it, the more they'll get from customer service departments.
The more CCP uses modules to resolve balance issues instead of systemwide rules, the more control CCP will have over how EVE works. CCP, please keep this in mind before swinging the nerfbat. |
Drilla
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Posted - 2005.11.15 21:35:00 -
[143]
So you are saying that the "cut'n'paste" answers to all reimbursements are because how people ask? That doesn't fit with my experience at all.
Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost! |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.11.15 21:45:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Drilla
So you are saying that the "cut'n'paste" answers to all reimbursements are because how people ask? That doesn't fit with my experience at all.
They have documented processes they follow. At the moment, those are basically checking the server logs to see if it was CCP's fault you lost your ship. This happens more in NPCing-heavy areas due to missions taking up a lot of CPU. That doesn't mean that losses related to pvp are inherently treated differently. You're taking a noticed corellation and you're jumping to wild conclusions based on it. There is no truth to it unless a dev or GM specifically confirms it.
And it is true that the GMs are told to throw a case out if the person petitions rudely or in a harassing manner. They aren't paid to deal with that kind of crap and don't have to.
I have noticed that a lot of the GMs don't know what they're doing, though. Every time I've died to server-lag and petitioned, I've had to remind the GMs to go look up the node CPU usage logs and check if it was running at 100% at the time of death and remind them that this is immediate grounds for reimbursement. I had to go as far as getting them the killmail so they would have no excuse not to know that time and what to restore. The GMs need retraining and they do need their work checked.
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GFLTorque
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Posted - 2005.11.15 22:32:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Nyphur
I've had to remind the GMs to go look up the node CPU usage logs and check if it was running at 100% at the time of death and remind them that this is immediate grounds for reimbursement.
I've checked the "user manual" and can't seem to find the part that tells me how to do the GM's job. Mind uploading yours?
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.11.15 23:31:00 -
[146]
my favorite is the one saying login traps are legal now and the other saying its an exploit
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Megadon
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Posted - 2005.11.16 00:05:00 -
[147]
Hmmmmm....
Teh wabble gwoes westless!
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Vlodec
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Posted - 2005.11.16 00:50:00 -
[148]
For myself I'm just astonished that some *snip* happy GM hasn't stopped this thread. And I wonder why ?
I'll hazard a guess.
One day a year, as a kind of joke, they let the riff raff say whatever they like. A kind of Saturnalia. Make the most of it guys. You'll be patronised, deleted and banned almost to the limits of your endurance again any time soon.
Am I allowed to say that ? |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.11.16 01:40:00 -
[149]
Go play Star Wars Galaxies for a week then come talk to me about CCP's customer care.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Mis Raven
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Posted - 2005.11.16 02:17:00 -
[150]
Quite right! This is a goddamm joke!
I made my complaints to the mods and this is how they handled it...
Disgusting! Well gues what I QUIT!
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