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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.11.16 11:07:00 -
[1]
Whilst I understand how they shouldn't be too fast on the basis:
Long range ships, to be balanced shouldn't be able to hold that range vs target. Therefore they are slow.
Could we make them more agile? They're all tinfoil, bluetack and shield generator anyway :)
Make them a little less depressing to fly.
/me dreams of old blackbird :-/
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Burlock Ironfist
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Posted - 2005.11.16 11:29:00 -
[2]
Unfortunately nothing makes any sense with the mass / agility side of cald ships - im sure i read somewhere they have a bigger mass than a appoc - which is true makes no sense at all....
think all cald pilots will be stuck with how they are forever... (im not saying this is a bad thing for game balance but it doent make alot of sence)
Registered Carebear and Mining Barge Enthusiast. |
Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2005.11.16 11:41:00 -
[3]
They got incresed mass at some point cause they were unbalanced and too good. But as they are quite opposite now makeing htem a little more nible should be possible no?
Victuri te Salutant |
Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.11.16 13:05:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gunstar Zero on 16/11/2005 13:05:22
 Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
They got incresed mass at some point cause they were unbalanced and too good. But as they are quite opposite now makeing htem a little more nible should be possible no?
I dont think it would be unbalanced and would make them more useful.
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.11.16 13:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Burlock Ironfist
Unfortunately nothing makes any sense with the mass / agility side of cald ships - im sure i read somewhere they have a bigger mass than a appoc - which is true makes no sense at all....
Indeed it makes no sense at all. Caracal is the heaviest cruiser!!!  And Moa is the second heaviest. Caldari ships mass have been increased a while ago, and their agility nerfed (and pure missiles ships have been hit harder), as a quick balancing fix for their unbalanced missiles. Now that missiles have been brought in line, these changes should be reversed. At equivalent tiers, caldari ships should be lighter than equivalent Amarr ships, and maybe some gallente ones (maybe not if gallente equivalent is a close range ship, as one could think they'd have improved them for better agility due to their close range needs, thus making them the second lightest ship behind the minmatar they currently are, but in no way amarr ships should be lighter than caldari ships, that make no sense - armor and all...).
Quote:
dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.11.16 13:40:00 -
[6]
mass is generally:
matari <- amarr <- gallente <- caldari
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.11.16 13:55:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gunstar Zero on 16/11/2005 14:08:24
would you see a problem with it being
matari <- caldari <- amarr <- gallente
Scrap, tinfoil , armour, something heavy
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Ortu Konsinni
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Posted - 2005.11.16 14:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gunstar Zero
sould you see a problem with it being
matari <- caldari <- amarr <- gallente
Scrap, tinfoil , armour, something heavy
I also don't understand why Caldari ships are so ponderous, but why should Amarr ships be lighter than Gallente ships? Doesn't make sense to me.
---
Ortu Konsinni
Diplomatic delegate
French Force Alliance -- l'alliance des francophones
Web site : http://destabiliser.com/ffa/ |
Furion35
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Posted - 2005.11.16 15:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ortu Konsinni
Originally by: Gunstar Zero
sould you see a problem with it being
matari <- caldari <- amarr <- gallente
Scrap, tinfoil , armour, something heavy
I also don't understand why Caldari ships are so ponderous, but why should Amarr ships be lighter than Gallente ships? Doesn't make sense to me.
Amarr ships have more armor. Gallente ships are mostly taken up by drone bays.
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Waut
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Posted - 2005.11.16 15:24:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Make them a little less depressing to fly.
Signed for truth. Undo the speed nerf for Caldari has been nerfed enough already
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Burlock Ironfist
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Posted - 2005.11.16 15:36:00 -
[11]
The whole situation with it does just seem a bit ...... poo.
not sure if it would unbalance the ships or not - but the whole situation makes as much sense as me talkign after 10 pints...
Registered Carebear and Mining Barge Enthusiast. |
Porro
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Posted - 2005.11.16 15:40:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Porro on 16/11/2005 15:40:35
Gallente fly blasterboats, and we're relativley slow that seem right to you? :P Though Caldari are pretty damn sluggish, but as you said they dont really need more speed, maybe the hacs/cruisers/frigs do etc but the bs's cant see why :P
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Burlock Ironfist
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Posted - 2005.11.16 15:41:00 -
[13]
im saying it on a in game balance term but gall ships are bigger than cald ones yet cald have bigger mass??
Registered Carebear and Mining Barge Enthusiast. |
Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.11.16 15:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Porro
Edited by: Porro on 16/11/2005 15:40:35
Gallente fly blasterboats, and we're relativley slow that seem right to you? :P Though Caldari are pretty damn sluggish, but as you said they dont really need more speed, maybe the hacs/cruisers/frigs do etc but the bs's cant see why :P
Not after straight line speed that would allow a ranged boat to maintain distance + pwn.
The ships would be more usable with better agility - just turning / acceleration.
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Burlock Ironfist
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Posted - 2005.11.16 16:05:00 -
[15]
would be nice not to be the last one to enter warp everytime as well...
Registered Carebear and Mining Barge Enthusiast. |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.11.16 17:00:00 -
[16]
amarr should be slowest afterall, thy depend not really on speed anyway
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.11.16 17:12:00 -
[17]
They already decreased some ships' mass, like Kestrel and Condor for the MK2 thingie, which means the Kestrel maybe won't be prohibited in fleets anymore (while the Condor still will be since it can't warp far enough with it's crap cap).
It is not fair a Manticore or Buzzard HAS to fit a cap battery to be of any use in a fleet, and it is not fair Caldari ships move like snails.
This nerf is a thing of the past, undo it please.
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Let's make the MK2 Moa a ship worth flying. |
Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.11.16 18:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sorja
They already decreased some ships' mass, like Kestrel and Condor for the MK2 thingie, which means the Kestrel maybe won't be prohibited in fleets anymore (while the Condor still will be since it can't warp far enough with it's crap cap).
It is not fair a Manticore or Buzzard HAS to fit a cap battery to be of any use in a fleet, and it is not fair Caldari ships move like snails.
This nerf is a thing of the past, undo it please.
I'll reitterate what I've moaned about before: Caldari ships need looking at as a whole, lots of little changes have been made over the past 2 years resulting a whole which is less than the sum of it's parts ;-)
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Larshus Magrus
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Posted - 2005.11.16 18:46:00 -
[19]
I agree. The mass of caldari ships makes no sense logically and based on balance.
I can uderstand them being slow. They dont have the propulsion systems of other ships. However, being less agile and weighing mroe than teh armor tankers and drone ships makes no sense what so ever.
Roll back the nerf that was against missile boats (which was superceded by the missile nerf itself) and make them lighter and more agile again.
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Aras Doar
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Posted - 2005.11.16 18:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Burlock Ironfist
Unfortunately nothing makes any sense with the mass / agility side of cald ships - im sure i read somewhere they have a bigger mass than a appoc - which is true makes no sense at all....
think all cald pilots will be stuck with how they are forever... (im not saying this is a bad thing for game balance but it doent make alot of sence)
Do not search for sense in EVE... This game is all towards balance and soft game playing...
Realism is zero.
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Arleonenis
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Posted - 2005.11.16 18:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nafri
mass is generally:
matari <- amarr <- gallente <- caldari
from roleplay point of view it should be like:
minmatar<-caldari<-gallente<-amarr
but from balance it should be like:
minmatar<-gallente<-caldari<-amarr
remember minmatar relay mostly on speed, gallente too with they blasters, caldari is quite long range, but longer range = far less firepower (defenders) and amarr is slow sturdy armor tankers doing hell with lasers
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Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2005.11.16 20:31:00 -
[22]
Agility isnt equal speed
Speed should be:
Matari > Gallente > Caldari > Amarr
Agility
Matari > Caldari > Gallente > Amarr
Victuri te Salutant |
Cadiz
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Posted - 2005.11.16 20:38:00 -
[23]
I've always found it amusing from a backstory perspective that the Caldari, the race who found their wartime salvation in small, fast one-man fighters, has gone fullbore over to hulking behemoths that handle and perform like wallowing bathtubs. Oh, how the times change. :P
Personally, I'd agree with the speed chart that pegs Minmatar > Gallente > Caldari > Amarr; it seems pretty reasonable.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.11.16 20:41:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 16/11/2005 20:45:14
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 16/11/2005 20:43:15
Ships like the Raven, Caracal, Cerberus, ect don't really need to be fast. If you can lock it, you can hit it, pretty much.. any ship that relies on missiles (cept maybe frigates), don't really need a lot of speed, they have no optimal range to worry about.
As for other Caldari ships, like the railgun turret ones, probably could use a little unnerfing in that department.
What I really want are 35tf BCU II though. :)
From a RP standpoint, yeah Caldari ships are supposed to be second to Minmatar in speed and agility, it even used to say Caldari ships were light and nimble in the char creation screen, way back.
ONE THING THAT REALLY BUGS ME:
Caldari ships have capacitors that are just about as ****ty as Minmatar, yet they have assloads of mass, which means when you warp, you lose huge chunks of cap! Very annoying especially on Caldari frigates, Kestrel is one of the worst offenders.. perhaps they could fix the energy:warp ratio on Caldari ships a bit so long jumps are possible?
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If Captain James T. Kirk and Mr. Spock embracing one another, in a bath tube, nude, in space, is wrong, I don't want to be right. |
Sangxianc
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Posted - 2005.11.16 20:45:00 -
[25]
Caldari should be more agile than Gallente, but Gallente should have higher velocity. I think that's what Gunstar's basically saying, and I agree.
So it'd be like:
Agility: Minmatar, Caldari, Gallente, Amarr
Speed: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr
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Do not deny yourself experience of that which lies beyond, behind the sun, in the world they call unpeopled. |
Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.11.16 22:00:00 -
[26]
Signed. Give them a little more agility and speed. I understand from an RP stand point that missiles weigh them down... or something... but slightly raise agility and speed for ships like the Crow, and the cruisers, and also for the gunboats. If missiles are going to act more like guns now it only makes sense imho.
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Tovarishch
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Posted - 2005.11.16 22:29:00 -
[27]
I've brought this topic up several times... and most non-Caldari pilots start crying about it the moment it comes up. It makes absolutely no sense that Caldari ships are the least agile, most massive, and (for the most part) slowest... not to mention have the largest sig radii and slowest sig resolution.
Most of these penalties are relics of an attempt to balance the past effectiveness of missiles. However, CCP has apparently not felt compelled to remove the penalties after balancing missiles.
If we're lucky we'll see this fixed within the next two years.
Only two things in life are certain... and Mercenary Coalition doesn't do taxes. |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.11.16 22:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nafri
amarr should be slowest afterall, thy depend not really on speed anyway
Eagle has range bonus's up the wazoo. Cerb can hit out to insane ranges using missiles.
Yeah they really need speed more then a Zealot which has a range of 11km with it's optimal gun.
The Apocaylpse and Raven have the exact same speed. The Armageddon is a whopping 10m/s faster then a Scorpion.
The Maller relies on close range weaponry and it still has the same speed as the Moa, a sniper ship.
More pointless Caldari whining
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.11.16 23:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Meridius
More pointless Caldari whining
See the post made above you. I believe it is very rational and explains the situation very clearly.
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2005.11.16 23:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Nafri
amarr should be slowest afterall, thy depend not really on speed anyway
Eagle has range bonus's up the wazoo. Cerb can hit out to insane ranges using missiles.
Yeah they really need speed more then a Zealot which has a range of 11km with it's optimal gun.
The Apocaylpse and Raven have the exact same speed. The Armageddon is a whopping 10m/s faster then a Scorpion.
The Maller relies on close range weaponry and it still has the same speed as the Moa, a sniper ship.
More pointless Caldari whining
The ships dont need speed they could use agility. I'm looking at this from the perspective of making the ships more useful / less pointless in PvP.
It all kinda makes sense, even after an evening at the pub quiz, so it must true.
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