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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.11.18 07:13:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Detaurus
you know what happens to an airplane that attempts a kamikaze maneuver on one of the US navies aircraft carriers today? (assuming it is not met by fighters(drones) first?
This is what they get, and the operator doesnt even have to aim
http://tri.army.mil/lc/cs/csa/phalanx.jpg
Try again, that's part of the Phalanx Close-in Weapons System, which is an ANTI-MISSILE system.
A carrier's only defense against aircraft in modern warfare are the other vessels escorting it, or the aircraft it can launch.
And just to kick you while you're down, do you want to guess at the kind of missiles used on the high-speed aircraft? Yes, small and quick (light) missiles, not large ICBMs Bunker Busters.
Also, the Anti-Aircraft guns used today are SMALL (in naval weaponry sizes). I'ts a good thing you're not in the Navy, I could just imagine you flipping out, screaming that it's bull**** your Battleship's 8-inch cannons can't hit the fighters that're dive-bombing you, when they can hit large targets at great distances.
Do yourself a favor and leave RL comparisons out of your whines, because you're apparently just as clueless about the real world military.
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Your Civilian Gatling Railgun perfectly strikes Choke Slam [CAIN], wrecking for 6.0 damage. |
AlphaM
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Posted - 2005.11.18 09:08:00 -
[32]
I think you will you find Bruce Lee(BS) had bodyguards (an escort) to protect him from being swarmed by a mob(interceptors)
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Rex Martell
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Posted - 2005.11.18 09:38:00 -
[33]
Battleships ruled the sea unchallenged until the advent of Aircraft. After Aircraft the power and range of the Battleships/Carriers expanded but it no longer ruled unchallenged.
The greatest treat to RL battleship or Aircraft Carrier is the lone fighter/Bomber as seen in the Falklands War when a squadron of Mig's down several Battleships.
Can't resist one last RL annology
The Bismarck was crippled by a Swordfish a wood and canvas Bi-Plane. Slowed by the attach it was caught and sunk by battleships.
"The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his" |
Detaurus
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Posted - 2005.11.18 13:20:00 -
[34]
"The MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS - pronounced "sea-whiz") is a fast-reaction, rapid-fire 20-millimeter gun system that provides US Navy ships with a terminal defense against anti-ship missiles that have penetrated other fleet defenses. Designed to engage anti-ship cruise missiles and fixed-wing aircraft at short range, Phalanx automatically engages functions usually performed by separate, independent systems such as search, detection, threat evaluation, acquisition, track, firing, target destruction, kill assessment and cease fire. Phalanx underwent operational tests and evaluation onboard USS Bigelow in 1977, and exceeded maintenance and reliability specifications. Phalanx production started in 1978 with orders for 23 USN and 14 Foreign Military Sales (FMS) systems. "
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-15.htm
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Phelan Lore
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Posted - 2005.11.18 13:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Robstr
Edited by: Robstr on 18/11/2005 04:13:09
Originally by: Detaurus
Bruce lee had body guards. Mostly to keep people from getting hurt.
WAIT HOLD IT!!!
Your saying the battlegroup is there to keep the carrier from hurting things that don't need to be?!
That makes so much sence my mind exploded.
ROFL
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Detaurus
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Posted - 2005.11.18 14:03:00 -
[36]
Everyone that flames me here needs to take some classes in rhetoric. Few can understand even what they are saying or implying by their obstinancy.
Bruce lee needed no protection, yet bodyguards were employed so that he did not have to deal with the opposition, and if he did, it would not have been that fair of a fight.
Battleship Pilots Should Feel Such A Complete Sense Of Boredom Engaging Small Ships That They Pretty Much Leave Them Alone. At This Moment Battleships Know They Must Kill An Inty As Fast As Possible.
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Elaron
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Posted - 2005.11.18 14:03:00 -
[37]
Real world military equipment and situations may hold some superficial simiarities to things that can be found in EVE, but, in all honesty, you cannot equate the two. That's like trying to equate a gooseberry with a sprout because they are both round.
These threads remind me of the Waaaaamityville Horror ... :P
Elaron
It is never too late to correct the mistakes of the past. |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.11.18 14:18:00 -
[38]
I do have SOME sympathy with Detaurus, largely based on comparative costs;
Ship A.
BS - 100 million ISK plus lots of high level skills to fly well
Ship B.
Interceptor - under 10 million ISK and a few low level skills to fly well.
Why should I choose to invest in ship A. if it can be easily defeated or at least held to a standoff by ship B.?
If CCP want to limit BS use (and let's face it, that is what it is all about), then simply limit the number that can be made...make it like a production queue for a prestigious car...you order it now, you get your BS in 1 or 2 years' time.
And it makes me laugh that Detaurus complains about CCP trying to force people to co-operate (which I agree with him, they do want that), but at the same time they've had to boost the smaller ships because people WON'T co-operate.
I'd have no problem with 10 frigates taking down a BS...but CCP have had to erode the BS abilitiies to a point where you can do it with three or four, because you can't get more people than that to co-operate. But it doesn't help the "feel" of the game.
Groovy CURVES, and the SPREADSHEET that made 'em |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.11.18 14:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Elaron
Real world military equipment and situations may hold some superficial simiarities to things that can be found in EVE, but, in all honesty, you cannot equate the two. That's like trying to equate a gooseberry with a sprout because they are both round.
They are both green as well. Just because there are differences does not mean that there are no similarities, and vice versa. You cannot EQUATE them, but you can COMPARE them.
Groovy CURVES, and the SPREADSHEET that made 'em |
Liisa
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Posted - 2005.11.18 14:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Detaurus
Battleship Pilots Should Feel Such A Complete Sense Of Boredom Engaging Small Ships That They Pretty Much Leave Them Alone. At This Moment Battleships Know They Must Kill An Inty As Fast As Possible.
I wish for you to clarify your statement.
Do you mean that battleships should be able to kill all other ship classes with such ease that if one is not flying a battleship one has to flee at the first sight of a battleship in order not to lose ones ship?
(Assumption made is that this meeting is in non-secure space of course.)
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.11.18 14:56:00 -
[41]
What he means is that he doesn't think other players are worth co-operating with, so he therefore doesn't think they are equal to him, which they are. He then assumes that he should be "bored" by their presence - ie. nobody else should be able to touch him. He is of course, entirely wrong.
Comments such as "corporations (communism)" and "if anybody mentions its a team game, why dont they chip in with my subscription?" prove he doesn't UNDERSTAND the concept of working with other people. They contribute, and so do you! So you'd all pay a part of each otehrs subs, and end up paying the same - ie, pay your own damn sub.
---:::---
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Karthik
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Posted - 2005.11.18 16:09:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Rex Martell
The greatest treat to RL battleship or Aircraft Carrier is the lone fighter/Bomber as seen in the Falklands War when a squadron of Mig's down several Battleships.
Never seen someone disprove themselves with their own statement before
1. From above, greatest threat = lone ..., then words later "squadron of migs...". One vs. 12 to 16. Well done.
2. There were no battleships in the Falklands war. The biggest vessel the Argentinians had IIRC was the General Belgrano, a cruiser purchased from the US and sunk by a submarine. The British have no battleships in their inventory, and haven't had any since well before 1982. The British did lose several vessels to Exocets, but these are not launched from Migs. They are launched from Super Etendards (spelling?), French aircraft (which makes sense seeing as the Exocet is a French missile).
We now return you to your regularly scheduled whine.
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Abbadon Weishaupt
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Posted - 2005.11.18 18:30:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Everyone that flames me here needs to take some classes in rhetoric. Few can understand even what they are saying or implying by their obstinancy.
Even as a relative noob here - I understand perfectly what the people flaming you are saying ;) - You could try listening - the good advice plastered all over these boards has saved my bacon more than once :D
On the other hand whinging has never helped me once *shrug*
Abba
PS I just *know* I am gonna regret posting this but what the hell
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.11.18 20:33:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Rex Martell
Battleships ruled the sea unchallenged until the advent of Aircraft. After Aircraft the power and range of the Battleships/Carriers expanded but it no longer ruled unchallenged.
The greatest treat to RL battleship or Aircraft Carrier is the lone fighter/Bomber as seen in the Falklands War when a squadron of Mig's down several Battleships.
Can't resist one last RL annology
Well could you at lest get it right...Dassault aircraft mostly flown by argentintina and no Battleships lost by the RN (as not having any at all never mind in theater) support ships destroyers and frigates lost only...
So not bad wrong aircraft and ship types cited.
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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axis featherfall
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Posted - 2005.11.18 22:26:00 -
[45]
detaurus did you by chance eat paint chips as a kid? or maybe live under some power lines? World of warcraft is indeed that way ===>
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Detaurus
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Posted - 2005.11.18 23:15:00 -
[46]
I prefer playing Battlefront 2, a far superior PVP game
and now you can be Jedi, slaughtering everyone, if you kill enough people, its great.
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.11.18 23:34:00 -
[47]
Can we stop the comparisons with US Navy Ships please?
(1) This is a video game
(2) Suspend your disbelief and work out if it's fun to play
(3) US Navy ships have been known to shoot down harmless Iranian passenger 747s and were also highly vulnerable to tiny speed boats manned by fundamentalist lunatics. A bit like BOB .
(4) thats enough numbered bullet points..........
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Corvus Anderran
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Posted - 2005.11.18 23:51:00 -
[48]
Originally by: babyblue
Can we stop the comparisons with US Navy Ships please?
(1) This is a video game
(2) Suspend your disbelief and work out if it's fun to play
(3) US Navy ships have been known to shoot down harmless Iranian passenger 747s and were also highly vulnerable to tiny speed boats manned by fundamentalist lunatics. A bit like BOB .
(4) thats enough numbered bullet points..........
You realise suspension of disbelief relies upon things appearing natural, right? If small guns did 10x the damage of large guns you wouldn't achieve suspension of disbelief very easily. The point is not that Eve ship combat should reflect precisely on 20th century naval warfare, but that it provides a good example of why a small ship can still be capable of damaging a large one.
By the way, the best way of looking at it is to ignore aircraft altogether. Compared to ships, aircraft are more like drones. Instead, the best example for how a small ship hurts a large one is the torpedo boats used around 1900. They were small, fast ships, capable of avoiding gunfire from capital ships, and then dealing heavy damage with torpedoes, before escaping. However, the navies fielding lots of battleships didn't say "Omfg nerf!", they invented the torpedo boat destroyer.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.11.19 00:02:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Detaurus
The new drones are horrible, a newbie ship can shoot them down fairly easily. You are right, and the results are much worse than I thought. Heavy drones wont be able to hit anything small.
age 10-15 years. have a bath. have another bath. go out. meet other people. engage in some real social contact. then come back, and log onto the test server.
now TEST! singature radius increases aren't in. sig resolution increases are. this makes heavies attack frigs FASTER ffs!
tracking hasn't (as far as i've seen) been nerfed. nor has speed. however, there is a skill to increase speed, providing more effectivness against small ships.
once you have checked you facts, come back, and then whine if you still feel justified
and never end a post with Lol
and this line is just to stop me breaking the rule i just made 
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Finix Jaeger
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Posted - 2005.11.19 00:17:00 -
[50]
Lorth! Quickly punch him, I'll get a bag and a shovel.
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Proud owner of the Aphoxema G Calendar |
Detaurus
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Posted - 2005.11.19 00:43:00 -
[51]
Um no, you are incorrect, I am 27, and a casual gamer. I am however, a compulsive poster, but that goes back to my "swg is going to die days". Swg just did, as I predicted, as I am always correct. The issue about sig radius was a mistake. Interceptors can hit a dime going 2,000m/s anyways, I was merely infuriated by the low hit points of the drones, and what I thought were 0% resists. Towards the bottom of the drone dialog box are the 4 reists with 0% next to each one.
Signature Resolution refers to.... start the guide located here http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g26.asp
basically it represents the ability of a turret to shoot in a narrow arc. Scan resolution is not being changed(is it even listed), and is what you are referring too.
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Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.11.19 01:41:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 19/11/2005 01:44:26
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 19/11/2005 01:43:30
Originally by: Liisa
Originally by: Detaurus
Battleship Pilots Should Feel Such A Complete Sense Of Boredom Engaging Small Ships That They Pretty Much Leave Them Alone. At This Moment Battleships Know They Must Kill An Inty As Fast As Possible.
I wish for you to clarify your statement.
Do you mean that battleships should be able to kill all other ship classes with such ease that if one is not flying a battleship one has to flee at the first sight of a battleship in order not to lose ones ship?
(Assumption made is that this meeting is in non-secure space of course.)
For those who played long ago during the times of Beta and just after Beta thats exactly what the game was. You would pwn any ship with a battleship and so thats about the only ship you could fly in PvP. (And everyship had tachyons.) You could do anything. This was before the time of interceptors and tech 2. Ships just didnt cut it.
Edit- I will give you one thing yes CCP has nerfed the game to take away from battleships being the ONLY viable combat ship. Theyve been doing it since Castor hit.
Now FINALLY there is some diversity in fleets. And bships cant just pwn everything they touch. It needs its support to take out the enemies support whether those be interceptors or other ships. Sorry but flying a lone bship in pvp is just  ... Thats just asking to get killed by something smaller. HACs are easily a match for a lone bship pilot unless that bship pilot knows what hes doing. Groups of frigates and AF are fast enough and and with numbers can engage larger ships. But there is a point where you just dont engage because you know that they have superior numbers or setups.
I dont know about everyone but i have only seen a lone interceptor take out a bship only once. And that person in teh bship was not even setup for combat.... which was the only reason he died. Eventually a bship will kill the smaller ship if there is no support on the way for that lonely ceptor pilot.
OMG formatting...
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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Detaurus
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Posted - 2005.11.19 02:36:00 -
[53]
like dreadnoughts I expect tech 2 battleships to be useless, and easily smoked by any hac.
I hate TomB
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vile56
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Posted - 2005.11.19 02:38:00 -
[54]
ibtl
i have one questions if instas are gone wouldnt the bs be a pwnmbl since they have to trek those 15km
well walk up to her with your pants down and if she runs away it was never meant to be. |
Detaurus
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Posted - 2005.11.19 03:12:00 -
[55]
no battleships are so slow, getting to the gate past a camp will b impossible. one t1 frig will webify it, for an hour, and the battleships wont be able to hit ****.
200,000 isk > 110,000,000 isk
thats TomB Mathematics
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Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.11.19 03:31:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Detaurus
like dreadnoughts I expect tech 2 battleships to be useless, and easily smoked by any hac.
I hate TomB
Hehe tech 2 bships if there not flagships will be super HACs which will make them super nice. :) But very over powered at the same time.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2005.11.19 03:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Detaurus
like dreadnoughts I expect tech 2 battleships to be useless, and easily smoked by any hac.
I hate TomB
I'm sure you don't read dev blogs, but I honestly expect a HAC to be a big threat to a T2 BS. T2 BSes are going to be command ships, not super heavy combat ships (which would throw balance completely out of the window, much like an 8 hislot t2 dread with HAC resists).
I expect t2 BSes to be sitting a good distance behind enemy lines, with lots of defensive mods set so that it can survive while giving its gang huge bonuses.
------------------------------------
Your Civilian Gatling Railgun perfectly strikes Choke Slam [CAIN], wrecking for 6.0 damage. |
Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.11.19 04:00:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Detaurus
like dreadnoughts I expect tech 2 battleships to be useless, and easily smoked by any hac.
I hate TomB
I'm sure you don't read dev blogs, but I honestly expect a HAC to be a big threat to a T2 BS. T2 BSes are going to be command ships, not super heavy combat ships (which would throw balance completely out of the window, much like an 8 hislot t2 dread with HAC resists).
I expect t2 BSes to be sitting a good distance behind enemy lines, with lots of defensive mods set so that it can survive while giving its gang huge bonuses.
There are plans for HAC like bships. Which is good and bad.. 
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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Detaurus
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Posted - 2005.11.19 04:44:00 -
[59]
HAC are what battleships should have been. high resists, high damage, screw everything smaller than them.
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Deth Kreig
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Posted - 2005.11.19 15:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Detaurus
With the nerfing of the insta jump bookmarks, getting across certain places, and known camps, expecially in links between different parts of the galaxies, will be impossible, except for small groups. This represents an attempt to place blame for a nerf on the system resources(such as the drone problem), which in reality has more to do with a persistent desire of devs to nerf solo play. The capacity of a battleship to defend itself from the protected class of tackler in an expeditious manner was severely nerfed by halving drone bays, and making drones as easy to hit as a house. The 'specialty' drones are a ridiculous joke. I should not care to take any of my well earned(that is working by ones self, not buying isk, not via communism(corporations), battleships into the eve of the future, when so much is being done to nerf solo play. Any that suggest I am playing a 'group' game can pitch in a few dollars then and pay for my subscription.
<bling!>sleep....
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